My perceptions of HS'ed kids growing up is influencing my decision now...advice? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#61 of 193 Old 03-24-2006, 02:03 AM
 
flyingspaghettimama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2tadpoles
I, too, am raising children who I expect to think for themselves and not just follow the herd.... whether the herd be peers or family.
That is a pretty freaking cool way to put it. I'm sorry some people were harsh with you, that's sort of sad. I've been pretty lucky in finding fairly open-minded Christians who aren't out to save me, as I am quite unsaveable but I am rather savory.

Even the ones who are evangelical - we've been able to get along on enough most issues and if we just don't talk about certain topics too much...although I'm not an atheist, so maybe they just hold out hope for me yet.

I agree with you regarding peers - for every foulmouthed, catty, exclusionist public schooler I've also found one who is very sweet, thoughtful, comes from a nice family, will play with children of all ages, and is liked by many other children. Now, if I could just make a school where all the kids were like the latter ones...and they all spoke in Klingon...
flyingspaghettimama is offline  
#62 of 193 Old 03-24-2006, 02:08 AM
 
mamaGjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ..on a busy street
Posts: 658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2tadpoles
You very well may be! Please don't take it personally.

My own experience with religious homeschoolers has been mostly unpleasant, but not completely. I've been chummy with a handful of families who homeschool for religious reasons and are still able to tolerate non-religious people. On the other hand, many of the religious HSers I've met have been serious fundamentalists. I can't relate to them and they can't tolerate me.

Years ago, I was speaking to another HS mom about the "Jump Start" series of educational CD-ROMs. She told me she thought the series included "too much of the occult."

I had a HS grandfather stalk me at a local HS swim day when he started running his mouth about the evils of "secular people" and I spoke up and informed him that he was among some. He followed me around and interrogated me about my religious beliefs until the swim was over.

I began a friendship with another woman who was a lot of fun and her kids got along great with mine.... then her husband learned I wasn't a Christian and forbid her to speak to me again. So I had to explain to my children that their new friends wouldn't be playing with them again because we weren't the right religion. That was their first experience with prejudice.

These are just a few examples.



I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'd like to respond.

I don't think that peer influence is usually a good thing, but neither do I think it's usually a bad thing. Even bad influences on our children can have a positive effect; they can make our children think about the difference between right and wrong. I think that good parenting plays a huge part in how our kids handle societal pressures. That is, I think that the more we talk to our kids and listen to them in return, and lead by example, the more they will appreciate our values. I don't necessarily think that sheltering them completely from other types of people is the answer.

Personally, I have a problem with any group of people, religous or not, who isolates their offspring from the rest of the world. I, too, am raising children who I expect to think for themselves and not just follow the herd.... whether the herd be peers or family.
mamaGjr is offline  
#63 of 193 Old 03-24-2006, 02:11 AM
 
flyingspaghettimama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2tadpoles

Years ago, I was speaking to another HS mom about the "Jump Start" series of educational CD-ROMs. She told me she thought the series included "too much of the occult."
I'm racking my brain here, with the limited exposure I've had to Jump Start...I just don't recall Reader Rabbit whipping out the Tarot Cards or saying "C'mon kiddies, let's do Math with the help of my buddy, the I Ching." And the software is sold on Christianbook.com.

Oh...I remember that Mr. Rabbit does use a magic wand at times, right(?) so I guess that probably explains it.
flyingspaghettimama is offline  
#64 of 193 Old 03-24-2006, 04:35 AM
 
umbrella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
when I was in school not so long ago (I'm 26) the home schooled kids I knew (just a handfull, certainly not a large sample) were weird and very dorky. I feel horrible saying that, and please know I am not calling anyones child weird or dorky! I just can't get that images out of my head and when I think of homeschooling my kids, I worry about that.
I haven't read the thread, but I found this kind of funny. I'm also 26, and when I was in school, I was impressed with homeschooled kids! I remeber thinking that here I was taking honors classes, in the best school in the area, and these homeschooled kids were way ahead of us! I was not a dork myself, in case you're wondering. So I was considering homeschooling my kids, while I was still a high school student.
umbrella is offline  
#65 of 193 Old 03-24-2006, 05:34 AM
 
PumpkinSeeds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Mosquitoville
Posts: 3,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
:
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama
I just don't recall Reader Rabbit whipping out the Tarot Cards or saying "C'mon kiddies, let's do Math with the help of my buddy, the I Ching."
PumpkinSeeds is offline  
#66 of 193 Old 03-24-2006, 02:16 PM
 
Lillian J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,050
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by umbrella
I remember thinking that here I was taking honors classes, in the best school in the area, and these homeschooled kids were way ahead of us!
Interesting. When my son took classes at a community college, he noticed how uninterested most of the other students were. They just seemed to be thinking in terms of getting requirements out of the way. But he mentioned that there was one other guy in a class who had his level of interest and participation - and he thought it was probably someone who had also homeschooled. Lillian
Lillian J is offline  
#67 of 193 Old 03-24-2006, 06:40 PM
 
rebeccalizzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,541
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
That is a pretty freaking cool way to put it. I'm sorry some people were harsh with you, that's sort of sad. I've been pretty lucky in finding fairly open-minded Christians who aren't out to save me, as I am quite unsaveable but I am rather savory.
: I love it. I'm not only un-saveable, I'm even worse....

I'm Catholic. Oh yes, it's the anti-Christ, right here in your regular group of hs'ers. I've only run against that kind of prejudice once, and I'm still friends with the woman. We became friends in 7th grade, but since we went to the same school and hung in the same groups, her parents couldn't really forbid us to see each other. Believe me, they tried. If she had been hs'd, there is no way in heck she'd have *ever* been allowed to associate with me, which would be a shame for me...she's an awesome person.

I am probably going to use a fundie Christian curriculum next year, and I belong to the Yahoo group for that curriculum. Most of the people are nice, but there are a few that...aren't. We study ancient Egypt first, and there are a few people *very* concerned about teaching their middle school aged kids about their religion. Um...isn't the ancient Egyptian religion pretty much dead? And it waaaayyy predates Christ...how does this cause a problem for Christians? I cannot figure it out...but it does. If it isn't in the Bible, it doesn't exist and didn't happen, apparently.

I don't have a problem with fundie Christians, atheists, pagans, wiccans. As long as you are reasonably pleasant to me and respectful of my religious beliefs, I'm happy. There just happen to be a handful of really obnoxious Christians who make everyone else look bad, which is a shame.

Mom to Liz (14) and Dillon (3) and Mitchell FINALLY born 7/11/10!
rebeccalizzie is offline  
#68 of 193 Old 03-24-2006, 06:47 PM
 
flyingspaghettimama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Eh? I am confused. What's wrong with being Catholic? They were atheists and didn't like you? They read too much Jack Chick and thought the Pope was the Anti-Christ? Enlighten me.
flyingspaghettimama is offline  
#69 of 193 Old 03-24-2006, 06:58 PM
 
natashaccat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: -40 F
Posts: 3,305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
when I was in school not so long ago (I'm 26) the home schooled kids I knew (just a handfull, certainly not a large sample) were weird and very dorky. I feel horrible saying that, and please know I am not calling anyones child weird or dorky! I just can't get that images out of my head and when I think of homeschooling my kids, I worry about that.
I haven't had a chance to read this whole thread...but I think this sort of attitude among PS childern is a symptom of what's wrong with putting children in a situation where they are deriving most of their social cues from peers rather than adults.

As the child to adult ratio widens in a group setting, children revert to "Lord of the Flies" behavior, where they fall into a hiearchial social model where charisma, appearances, and physical strength are valued over kindness and intellegence. In order for those on top to be on top someone has to be the "dork". So while PS may be a wonderful experience for a select few, those who lack charisma, appearances, and physical strength pay the price for the happiness of others.
natashaccat is offline  
#70 of 193 Old 03-24-2006, 11:00 PM
 
rebeccalizzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,541
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama
Eh? I am confused. What's wrong with being Catholic? They were atheists and didn't like you? They read too much Jack Chick and thought the Pope was the Anti-Christ? Enlighten me.
LOL...I'm sorry, I meant some fundie Christians think Catholics are really horrible...yeah, the Jack Chick stuff, we worship the Pope, we drink blood, we bow down to idols (saints)...I've heard a bunch of it

Mom to Liz (14) and Dillon (3) and Mitchell FINALLY born 7/11/10!
rebeccalizzie is offline  
#71 of 193 Old 03-24-2006, 11:30 PM
 
usandthegirls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iowa
Posts: 273
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
WRT ages of our kiddos (I have a 3.5 yo DD and a 15 mo old DD). We are considering hs'ing, etc etc.

I'm wondering...And I ask this with a big grin on my face...What is wrong with being a dork? Dorks are usually smart, kind, super neat people. All of the dorks I went to public school with were mostly good people. And of course, from a kid who goes to public school and is exposed to all the "norms" of society and caught up in the media hype, a kid who is "just a kid" (homeschooled) will seem like a dork. I actually WANT my kids to be nerds. LOL. I don't want them to care about make-up, what expensive clothes are popular, etc etc.

Just my two cents.
usandthegirls is offline  
#72 of 193 Old 03-24-2006, 11:48 PM
 
HillbillyJohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: University Place WA
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I did know of a couple of hs fmailies when I was younger. One of the families was weird but I honestly thing it was just how there family was. I don't think that was a hs situation. I'm a dork. Trekkie to the death BTW. And PS still can produce Racists YK? That's anti-social.
HillbillyJohn is offline  
#73 of 193 Old 03-25-2006, 12:00 AM
 
momto l&a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Idaho
Posts: 13,235
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The differance imo betweem hs'ed and public scooled kids is hs'ers are allowed to be themselves, they dont have to fit in.

hs'ers dont have to be cookie cutter
momto l&a is offline  
#74 of 193 Old 03-25-2006, 01:25 PM
 
Brigianna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: who knows?
Posts: 9,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2tadpoles
You very well may be! Please don't take it personally.

My own experience with religious homeschoolers has been mostly unpleasant, but not completely. I've been chummy with a handful of families who homeschool for religious reasons and are still able to tolerate non-religious people. On the other hand, many of the religious HSers I've met have been serious fundamentalists. I can't relate to them and they can't tolerate me.

Years ago, I was speaking to another HS mom about the "Jump Start" series of educational CD-ROMs. She told me she thought the series included "too much of the occult."

I had a HS grandfather stalk me at a local HS swim day when he started running his mouth about the evils of "secular people" and I spoke up and informed him that he was among some. He followed me around and interrogated me about my religious beliefs until the swim was over.

I began a friendship with another woman who was a lot of fun and her kids got along great with mine.... then her husband learned I wasn't a Christian and forbid her to speak to me again. So I had to explain to my children that their new friends wouldn't be playing with them again because we weren't the right religion. That was their first experience with prejudice.

These are just a few examples.



I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'd like to respond.

I don't think that peer influence is usually a good thing, but neither do I think it's usually a bad thing. Even bad influences on our children can have a positive effect; they can make our children think about the difference between right and wrong. I think that good parenting plays a huge part in how our kids handle societal pressures. That is, I think that the more we talk to our kids and listen to them in return, and lead by example, the more they will appreciate our values. I don't necessarily think that sheltering them completely from other types of people is the answer.

Personally, I have a problem with any group of people, religous or not, who isolates their offspring from the rest of the world. I, too, am raising children who I expect to think for themselves and not just follow the herd.... whether the herd be peers or family.
Okay, I suppose it's a matter of perspective--you think it's "isolating them from the rest of the world," I think of it more as protecting them from the negative influences of the world until they have the understanding and maturity and skills to deal with it. I can't "shelter" them forever and I wouldn't want to try, but I hope that by providing them a positive, consitstent home environment they will be better able to deal with "real world problems." I understand the other point of view, and I respect where you're coming from, but I think that, especially when they're very young, they need consistent values so that they have something to compare other things to.

But I would never try to keep the kids away from "secular people" (what does that even mean?) or anything like that. That does seem extreme and strange.
Brigianna is offline  
#75 of 193 Old 03-25-2006, 01:30 PM
 
Brigianna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: who knows?
Posts: 9,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama
I'm racking my brain here, with the limited exposure I've had to Jump Start...I just don't recall Reader Rabbit whipping out the Tarot Cards or saying "C'mon kiddies, let's do Math with the help of my buddy, the I Ching." And the software is sold on Christianbook.com.

Oh...I remember that Mr. Rabbit does use a magic wand at times, right(?) so I guess that probably explains it.
I'm not familiar with that particular program, but there is Pagan influence (I don't know about occult) in a lot of educational materials. References to "Mother Earth," "universal spirit of nature," etc. Maybe that's what she was referring to.
Brigianna is offline  
#76 of 193 Old 03-25-2006, 02:51 PM
 
Kylix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: drifting off in space
Posts: 1,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm 23 and I remember in high school thinking of two different type of homeschoolers. There were the ultra religious homeschoolers and then the other type

I didn't really think much of the ultra religious homeschoolers. Maybe I thought they were weird and a little too academic, but mostly I just didn't think of them.

The kind I thought about were the "unschooling" type, although I didn't know that word then. I saw a special on tv about high school homeschoolers who ran their own education, took dance classes, drove themselves around to their own events, etc. And I thought it was soooo cool.

I was depressed in high school. I hated school and felt so incompetent and not at all self-sufficient like I wanted to be. I remember thinking that I would really like to be homeschooled if that is what homeschool really is. I think that is when I really began to decide that I would homeschool my own children.

It's funny how we get perceptions about a whole group of people just from hearing about and seeing one example...especially if that whole group of people is something not mainstream or not understood. No one looks at one public school child and generalizes across all public schooled children.

Kylix
Kylix is offline  
#77 of 193 Old 03-25-2006, 03:38 PM
 
Lillian J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,050
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylix
The kind I thought about were the "unschooling" type, although I didn't know that word then. I saw a special on tv about high school homeschoolers who ran their own education, took dance classes, drove themselves around to their own events, etc. And I thought it was soooo cool.

I was depressed in high school. I hated school and felt so incompetent and not at all self-sufficient like I wanted to be. I remember thinking that I would really like to be homeschooled if that is what homeschool really is. I think that is when I really began to decide that I would homeschool my own children.
A friend of mine got a letter awhile back from her son who had just graduated from college and was working in a very fulfilling job. He told her he just wanted to say he had been thinking a lot about "the gift" she had given him by allowing him the freedom to be in charge of his own education. My own son found that kind of freedom so valuable that he even made reference to it in his college admission essays. It's so hard to articulate how valuable that kind of experience can be. - Lillian
Lillian J is offline  
#78 of 193 Old 03-25-2006, 03:42 PM
 
cheenya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,982
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by momto l&a
The differance imo betweem hs'ed and public scooled kids is hs'ers are allowed to be themselves, they dont have to fit in.

hs'ers dont have to be cookie cutter
I definitely found this to be true when I was homeschooled. I started hsing in 5th grade. Within a few years my group of friends from elementary school had splintered into several different cliques that according to social "rules" couldn't speak to each other. The only reason I was able to stay friends with most of them was because I wasn't in the forced social environment of the school.

Mama to three - DD : 1/03, DS 2/06, and DS 6/09.
cheenya is offline  
#79 of 193 Old 03-25-2006, 04:36 PM
 
lilyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Posts: 18,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I was a weird a dorky kid from PS. i have known lots of homeschooled teens and th weird to normal ratio has seemed pretty even. I guess homescholing gives you more freedom to be yourself with less presure to conform. That could go either way i guess. You might also find yourperception about whose opinion of dorky matters. many adults find the odder children delightful and intellegent and intresting. and in the homeschooled world an adults opinions are usually equal to or more important than the peers. When I was working with kids i found the "normal" kids to be very boring and one dementional. It was all about fashion, hanging out, sports, grades and/or finding a hook up. The homeschool kids, while maybe not as cool by peer standards were intellegent, intresting and just fit in to a dioffernt crowd. After all you are not a teenager forever. of course there are always those people going know where and without any spark but that can happen in any educational environment.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

lilyka is offline  
#80 of 193 Old 03-26-2006, 01:36 AM
 
rumi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: gmt+5
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
And if you hadn't been in school, yourself.... you probably wouldn't have noticed nor cared about any of those things.
:

I feel /have felt the same as the OP though I have already made up my mind to HS. BUT I think that probalby because I was subject to judgement in PS that I would have easily imposed similiar judgements upon others. THAT SAID, however, I think it is impt to take certain precautions based on what we have observed about the kids who get "too" sheltered / isolated. I am saying this even though most people probably think my dd is too sheltered and thus "too" sensetive ... hasn't had to put up with the rough life that it seems is expected of preschoolers (teasing / handling each other) ....

no longer momsling.GIF or ecbaby2.gif orfly-by-nursing1.gif ... dd is going on 10 (!) how was I to know there was a homeschool going on?

rumi is offline  
#81 of 193 Old 03-26-2006, 07:14 PM
 
Brigianna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: who knows?
Posts: 9,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumi
I think it is impt to take certain precautions based on what we have observed about the kids who get "too" sheltered / isolated. I am saying this even though most people probably think my dd is too sheltered and thus "too" sensetive ... hasn't had to put up with the rough life that it seems is expected of preschoolers (teasing / handling each other) ....
But that is the question, isn't it--how sheltered is too sheltered? There seem to be a lot of double standards on this issue. I would err on the side of too sheltered over not sheltered enough, especially in the early years, because they can always learn about "the real world" when they grow up but they can't undo the damage caused by being exposed to too much.
Brigianna is offline  
#82 of 193 Old 03-26-2006, 09:08 PM
Banned
 
DebraBaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 5,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here is a good article about the potential dangers of the isolationist movement that is popular amongst conservative Christian homeschoolers.

http://www.equip.org/free/DF230.htm

db
DebraBaker is offline  
#83 of 193 Old 03-26-2006, 11:13 PM
 
Brigianna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: who knows?
Posts: 9,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DebraBaker
Here is a good article about the potential dangers of the isolationist movement that is popular amongst conservative Christian homeschoolers.

http://www.equip.org/free/DF230.htm

db
That article is about the dangers of beating one's children into submission. I don't think there's much dispute about that on this site. But contrary to popular belief, the vast majority of "ultra-religious" traditionalist Christian homeschoolers are not like that. I seriously doubt that the extremism being refuted in that article is "popular amongst conservative Christian homeschoolers."

I am a traditionalist Christian who would be called "ultra-religious" by any mainstream standard. I homeschool my children. I try to protect them from the corruptions of mainstream society. I do not beat them or punish them. I do not believe in the totalitarian ramblings of Mr. Rushdoony. There are many of us.

The constant conflation of traditionalist Christians with baby-beating, totalitarian, anti-social, mouth-breathing flat-earthers is offensive and hurtful to many people.
Brigianna is offline  
#84 of 193 Old 03-26-2006, 11:23 PM
Banned
 
DebraBaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 5,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think there is some confusion between the two. This article outlines the concerns some have with isolationist and hypershelterers.

If people are confused between the two, I hope that articles such as this one will clarify the two so we can distinguish between the two.

DB

Editing to note the article was written by a pretty conservative Christian.
DebraBaker is offline  
#85 of 193 Old 03-26-2006, 11:34 PM
 
Lillian J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,050
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I couldn't bring myself to read the article, but this caught my eye:
Quote:
In their article “Training Roseanna’s Flesh,” Michael and Debi Pearl, for example, argue that training a child properly is not a matter of focusing on any particular training issue itself, rather, “IT IS A MATTER OF ESTABLISHING AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHO IS IN CONTROL” (emphasis in original).8 They continue, “You must look for opportunities to demonstrate that you have the last word, that your authority is to be obeyed without question.…If, during the course of a day, no contest arises naturally, you should arrange one. Seek opportunity to thwart the child’s will, to cause him to submit to your command.
HOW CHILLING!!! HOW SICK!!!

-Lillian
Lillian J is offline  
#86 of 193 Old 03-27-2006, 12:18 AM
 
2tadpoles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigianna
There seem to be a lot of double standards on this issue. I would err on the side of too sheltered over not sheltered enough, especially in the early years, because they can always learn about "the real world" when they grow up but they can't undo the damage caused by being exposed to too much.
I think being overly sheltered can be just as damaging. Seems to me that children who are too sheltered.... might NEVER grow up!

I love that scene in "Finding Nemo" where Marlin is crying to Dory that he'd told Nemo he'd "never let anything happen to him." The Dory muses and says something like, "That's a strange thing to promise. If you never let anything happen to him, then NOTHING will ever happen to him."
2tadpoles is offline  
#87 of 193 Old 03-27-2006, 07:33 AM
 
Brigianna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: who knows?
Posts: 9,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DebraBaker
I think there is some confusion between the two. This article outlines the concerns some have with isolationist and hypershelterers.
Part of it was about "hypershelterers" but the bulk of the article was about child abuse. It is intellectually dishonest to conflate the two. She is implying that parents who try to shelter their children from negative influences are also beating their children into submission.

Quote:
If people are confused between the two, I hope that articles such as this one will clarify the two so we can distinguish between the two.

DB
My point is, there are 3 separate issues being discussed here: religiosity, sheltering, and abuse. You can be "ultra-religious" and shelter your kids and not abuse them. You can be "ultra-religious" without sheltering or abusing them. You can abuse them without being religious or sheltering. You can shelter them without abuse or religion. Etc. All I'm asking is that they be addressed *separately* instead of going on about those ultra-religious hyper-shelterers who beat their kids.

Quote:
Editing to note the article was written by a pretty conservative Christian.
She's more theologically mainstream than I am. For what it's worth, the Leviticus verse she's trying to discredit is about mixing linen and wool, not two fabrics in general. The reasoning being that wool is the fabric of work clothes and linen is used in worship, so it's about not mixing the sacred and the secular. I see that verse given a lot as an example of the "ridiculousness" of Old Testament law, but it's almost always misrepresented. And the other verse is about body modification *as part of a pagan ritual,* not in general. I'm really not sure why she brought up either point, except to show how "silly" traditionalists supposedly are.
Brigianna is offline  
#88 of 193 Old 03-27-2006, 07:56 AM
 
Brigianna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: who knows?
Posts: 9,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2tadpoles
I think being overly sheltered can be just as damaging. Seems to me that children who are too sheltered.... might NEVER grow up!

I love that scene in "Finding Nemo" where Marlin is crying to Dory that he'd told Nemo he'd "never let anything happen to him." The Dory muses and says something like, "That's a strange thing to promise. If you never let anything happen to him, then NOTHING will ever happen to him."
But sheltering your kids isn't about making sure that nothing ever happens to them, it's about preventing their innate sense of natural and appropriate behavior from being warped at a young age, so that when things *do* happen to them, they know how to respond. I'm not under the illusion that my kids will *never* encounter any of the things I'm sheltering them from, but that when they do, they'll recognize it as wrong because they won't have grown up thinking of it as normal.

I'm also concerned about the extent to which "growing up" means "accepting evil"--I know you didn't mean it in that sense, but I started thinking about this--especially in current-events-type issues, like for example politicians lying. Anyone who criticizes a politician for lying, or taking a bribe, or some such, is told "Grow up--they're all like that." But isn't basic honesty a *bare minimum* we should expect from leaders? Or, for example, poverty--it is an outrage that these mega-corporations are creating perpetual poverty for people already living below subsistence level. But if you say anything about it, the response is "Grow up--that's just the way the world works." If everyone "grew up," how would anything ever change? And, really, the reason I do a lot of the things I do with my children is to help them avoid "growing up" in that sense. Again, I know you didn't mean it that way, but I think it's relevant.
Brigianna is offline  
#89 of 193 Old 03-27-2006, 09:29 AM
Banned
 
DebraBaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 5,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote, "Part of it was about "hypershelterers" but the bulk of the article was about child abuse. It is intellectually dishonest to conflate the two. She is implying that parents who try to shelter their children from negative influences are also beating their children into submission."

There is a sort of guilt by association.

Generally, the prominant voices of hypersheltering (Lindvall, Gothard, Pearl,) are also preaching child abuse in the Name of G-d.

As you noted, there is a minority of hypersheltering Christians who don't physically hit their children.

DB
DebraBaker is offline  
#90 of 193 Old 03-27-2006, 11:15 AM
 
2tadpoles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigianna
I'm also concerned about the extent to which "growing up" means "accepting evil"--I know you didn't mean it in that sense...
No, I didn't.

My meaning was more along the lines of that if a child is sheltered to the point where they aren't allowed to make their own choices/decisions/judgements at all, then they might never learn to do so.

And of course, the definition of "evil" varies widely between different groups of people. I think Bush is evil. I don't think Harry Potter is.
2tadpoles is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off