Kindergarten fun?!?!?! - rant - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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#91 of 105 Old 12-27-2006, 11:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Britishmum View Post
if someone asks me if I have kids, or where I work, or what country I come from, or where I bought my baby carrier, or how many ounces of formula my baby eats, or even if he sleeps through the night, I answer them without finding it irritating, even if I've heard the question a thousand times before. I guess it just doesn't irritate me to answer small talk the way it does some people.
Those questions all have simple answers that people understand easily.

You have a young child, and you homeschool in a conventional manner.

My children are older. We've been answering "the questions" for a looong time. And we aren't conventional people. The answers aren't easy, and they often lead into a round of 50 more questions.

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I don't expect anyone to babysit me, but I have to say that I have been profoundly grateful to those who took the time to answer my questions about homeschooling as I made that decision.
I've answered a lot of questions for a lot of people. As I said before, I would just like to NOT do it in the supermarket, post office, Dollar Store, or wherever someone happens to bump into me. People assume that since we homeschool, we have all the time in the world. That's not the case. I work full-time and am often on a tight schedule to get things done.

And, I'll be honest here...sometimes I'd rather just be left alone. I'm with my kids a lot, and I work as a waitress. I'm dealing with people ALL DAY. Maybe I don't feel like chit-chatting, KWIM?
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#92 of 105 Old 12-27-2006, 11:45 AM
 
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deleted by me because I'm unable to share my POV.

Single (divorced), self-employed working, college student MOM to:

 

17 yr old

11 yr old 

 4 yr old

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#93 of 105 Old 12-27-2006, 11:59 AM
 
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Yes, sure kids didn't go to school a hundred years ago or whatever, they stayed home all day. Well we also didn't have television, electricity, telephones, computers, etc at some point in time and everyone made it without all that. Just because schools are offered in this day and time doesn't make them bad and I don't feel that kids are "supposed" to be homeschooled and that it's the natural thing to do.

And again, why can't the majority of homeschoolers just accept the fact that homeschooling is not necessarily the best option out there and not ALL children do best in that environment, especially if a child is forced by their parents to homeschool since birth and never actually been outside the home to school to even try it out for themselves. It's not really fair to say they are set up to homeschool only.

And as far as grade levels go, you just never know when something may happen, an emergency of any sort, that will make it so that your child has to go to a school outside the home. I'd hate to think they wouldn't be prepared. I remember when I DID in fact homeschool, if we sent our kids to any classes or special trips outside the home at museums or other places then they would classify the children as far as their grade levels. They did in fact have it listed for grades K-2, 3-5, 6-8 and so on. The parents I knew didn't have a problem with that for the most part......
I think that people ARE wired to learn independantly and at thier own pace...public schooling is definitely unnatural. It may work for some, but it's not how nature intended by any means. People now have so many ways to get the information that they want, school is probably the least ideal way to get and retain information, unless it happens to be in a subject that interests the child.

Parents make decisions for thier children all of the time. When my kids grow up, they may beg to do lots of things? Go to unsupervised parties? Wear the latest fads? And hopefully, I am raising them to have a mind of thier own.

So, in your logic, we should classify our children according to thier age/grade level in case of emergency? If I die, my children would be without thier mother, should I just distance myself now, in case of emergency? Same logic.

If my child wants to go to a museum to learn about electricity, but is stuck playing with magnets in order to be with kids his own age, that wouldn't work for me and I would advocate for his best interests.
Lisa (mom to 3 wonderful children)

Our children make a study of us in a way no one else ever will.  If we don't act according to our values, they will know.~Starhawk Rainbow.gif  New  User Agreement! http://www.mothering.com/community/wiki/user-agreement

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#94 of 105 Old 12-27-2006, 12:20 PM
 
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actually YOU'VE opted them out at this point. There still may come a day where one or all of your children want to go to a school and may even beg you. What then? They DO grow up and take on a mind of their own.
DS2 is 11.5, and DS1 will be 15 next month. They have the option at any time to go to school if they desire.

So please, don't assume that I'VE opted them out. We discuss these choices frequently enough.

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You do seem very irritated by the tone of your responses in this thread.


I can't really help how you interpret my words.

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Just because schools are offered in this day and time doesn't make them bad and I don't feel that kids are "supposed" to be homeschooled and that it's the natural thing to do.
Schools are not "offered." Attendance is compulsory. Even those of us who "opt out" are held accountable to the school districts in many parts of the country. Yes, I think this is bad and strips people of freedom.

Families being together IS the natural thing to do. I have trouble understanding people who are AP only until the child turns five. I'm not judging, or condemning. I just don't get it.

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And again, why can't the majority of homeschoolers just accept the fact that homeschooling is not necessarily the best option out there and not ALL children do best in that environment
They did just fine for the past several millenia. Schools are a relatively recent invention.

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....especially if a child is forced by their parents to homeschool since birth and never actually been outside the home to school to even try it out for themselves. It's not really fair to say they are set up to homeschool only.
Would you say the same thing about kids who have been in school since the age of 3, and were never given a chance to homeschool? They were forced into school by their parents. Is that unfair?

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And as far as grade levels go, you just never know when something may happen, an emergency of any sort, that will make it so that your child has to go to a school outside the home. I'd hate to think they wouldn't be prepared.
It doesn't take 13 years to learn what they teach in school. I have confidence that any academic "deficiencies" my kids have would be easily made up for. I tend to not live my life in fear of "what if."

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I remember when I DID in fact homeschool, if we sent our kids to any classes or special trips outside the home at museums or other places then they would classify the children as far as their grade levels. They did in fact have it listed for grades K-2, 3-5, 6-8 and so on. The parents I knew didn't have a problem with that for the most part......
They might not have had a problem with it, or they might have been silently annoyed like myself. When a program is offered to kids from 5-8 grade, what if my teenager would like to participate, too? Why is he barred because of some arbitrary "grade" the museum wants to put him in?

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But when it came to field trips and classes outside the home, there were the select few homeschool parents that demanded their 5 yr old be with their 8 yr old in a class designed for grades 3-5 for instance and it totally mucked up the class for the older kids to have a whiney, chatty kindergartner in the room and got them behind. :
Yes, I've seen people like that, too. They're the same sort of people who insist on their child(ren) being the center of attention no matter what. Their kids are the ones who monopolize any sort of organized class with a billion questions or random anecdotes, while the parent stands to the side, smiling gently. I call it being inconsiderate and self-centered, and it isn't a exclusively homeschooled phenomenon. It's people who talk on their cell phone in a movie theatre. It's people who bring shrieking, food-flinging toddlers into an upscale restaurant.

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Things like that did tend to irritate me about homeschoolers. They are so against *anyone* telling them that their child needs to do something outside their realm of thinking. They are very hard to please. I was never like that when I homeschooled, never.
So, homeschoolers are , but you weren't when you were a homeschooler?

See how generalizations don't work?

I could say the very same things about some AP mamas.

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But there are many out there that I've met who just aren't normal and they don't know how to be flexible when it comes to their own children. That could hurt their children in the long run.
IMO, it isn't your place to say what's normal for someone else's family.
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#95 of 105 Old 12-27-2006, 12:29 PM
 
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mommy68: Your experience has been very different from mine. I'm sorry that you felt mistreated by the homeschoolers you knew.

My children are known and loved by a community of homeschoolers (and some very cool building schoolers). The problems I run into (gender stuff mostly) would be worse in schools than they are in homeschooling groups. My school aged child would either be a kindergartener or a first grader depending on where we lived and whether I had her tested.

The questions make her uncomfortable....as do any intrusive questions or comments from stranger adults. She's very adept at changing the subject or just opening the conversation with a different topic. And we're usually handy to help her out.

Britishmum: I can't help wondering if your experience with the 15 year old's father might have to do with the age of your children. Around here, *lots* of people talk about homeschooling their 3, 4, 5 year olds. Then, the kindergarten year comes around and they go off to school.

I know that this year, when dd1 would have been in either k or 1st, our relationships with homeschoolers have deepened, as people feel like we might "stick around." I think people sometimes end up feeling a bit used when they answer a lot of questions, invite people to park day, etc. and the family enrolls the first day of school.

I'm being kicked up the computer by one of the shorter people in the house, so I'll check in later....
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#96 of 105 Old 12-27-2006, 12:42 PM
 
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Maybe it's because I came in contact with so many self-righteous, know-it-all homeschool parents that I have issues with all of them in general and I really don't mean to come across that way because I do have friends that still homeschool and have done so for the long haul. In fact, my best friend has an 18 y o and a 15 y o and they've always been homeschooled, and she's great. But there are many out there that I've met who just aren't normal and they don't know how to be flexible when it comes to their own children. That could hurt their children in the long run.
This is an unfair generalization you are applying to hsers. The OP was expressing her feelings being bombarded with other people's agenda to make kindergarten sound fun. It's unfortunate that you have had some unpleasnt experiences with hs parents, anyone can say the same about any group of parents. It just simply isn't fact for all of us. Hsing takes a lot of courage and ingenuity. People often lack the support of their extended families and this forum is meant to give, among other things, validation and support.

I have been frustrated many times out trying to get an errand accomplished and being bombarded with the most general hsing questions. Who has the time in a checkout line at the PO to educate someone on the NYS laws for hsing?? I don't even get why people think this is appropriate. No, I do not buy innocent curiousity all the time either. People are curious, but they are also threatened by change....by people who they view as "different". My children shouldn't have to explain why they are at the grocery store at noon.

Sorry, end of rant.

There are several good points in this thread and I hope I have time to discuss more of them. I want to thank those of you who are taking the time to articulate your feelings so patiently.

~Joan, Happy mom to 2 beautiful kiddos, one new puppy and 2 lovely felines
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#97 of 105 Old 12-27-2006, 12:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lisa49 View Post
If my child wants to go to a museum to learn about electricity, but is stuck playing with magnets in order to be with kids his own age, that wouldn't work for me and I would advocate for his best interests.
Lisa (mom to 3 wonderful children)
Good post, Lisa. I just highlighted this because it so often comes up in our outings and field trips too. I have done the same and my child has never disrupted a class or been an irritation. Hsers with more than 1 child have to make these decisions a lot. Thanks for making the point.

~Joan, Happy mom to 2 beautiful kiddos, one new puppy and 2 lovely felines
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#98 of 105 Old 12-27-2006, 12:52 PM
 
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2tadpoles, there are so many of your points in your posts I would like to quote and agree with.

~Joan, Happy mom to 2 beautiful kiddos, one new puppy and 2 lovely felines
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#99 of 105 Old 12-27-2006, 01:06 PM
 
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Why doesn't it make sense for children to go to school in a mixed-age classroom? Who defines what is an age-appropriate grade level? Children are all so different and just because they share the same birth year does not mean that their needs are equally met in the same grade. Some are always "ahead", "on track" or "behind". I think it would make much more sense to just place children where their needs are best met...that would mean that all 8 year olds would not be in the same grade. That's why the grade concept is weird to many people. We don't all believe grades are age-appropriate fits. Since a reference was made to college, not all college juniors are the same age. Not all first year graduate students are the same age. If it's this way for adults, why can't children's individual needs also be met as such, rather than organizing them by birth year? Who does this keep things in order for? It certainly doesn't keep things in order for all children, as so many don't have their needs met this way. This is why the "grade" concept is awkward for many homeschoolers. I know that my own child is at multiple "grade" levels. If he were in school he would be a kindergartener. But we don't use a kindergarten curriculum at home. He's not a kindergartener to me. He has an individually tailored curriculum that runs across numerous grade levels (some ahead, some behind, and some at K level).
: Not all 5 year olds are ready for school. And they don't progress at the same rate. Nor are they at the same level for every subject.

I AM a college student right now. The only people that have ever asked my grade level are professors and college officials. In the "real world," I've been asked my major and how long I have left. What "grade level" I am really means absolutely nothing. Very very few people enter college and go straight through, finishing in only 4 years (8 semesters), which is how the college labeling system is designed. I *think* next semester will be my 4th as a junior because I didn't (couldn't) go full time. The fact that I'm a junior really doesn't mean anything though. What does is that I currently only need 41 more hours. But I could just as easily be a senior and still have 70-some odd hours left.
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#100 of 105 Old 12-27-2006, 01:09 PM
 
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Britishmum: I can't help wondering if your experience with the 15 year old's father might have to do with the age of your children. Around here, *lots* of people talk about homeschooling their 3, 4, 5 year olds. Then, the kindergarten year comes around and they go off to school.

I know that this year, when dd1 would have been in either k or 1st, our relationships with homeschoolers have deepened, as people feel like we might "stick around." I think people sometimes end up feeling a bit used when they answer a lot of questions, invite people to park day, etc. and the family enrolls the first day of school.
I'm sure that was his reason for blanking me. I'm sure he felt that he'd heard it all before! What makes me feel sad though is that this was one of my first experience with the homeschool community, and I have to say that it was very offputting. I'd hate to ever give out that vibe to anyone.
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#101 of 105 Old 12-27-2006, 05:28 PM
 
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No, I do not buy innocent curiousity all the time either. People are curious, but they are also threatened by change....by people who they view as "different". My children shouldn't have to explain why they are at the grocery store at noon.
ITA!

Always thought the following was funny....especially number 5.

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Top 10 Answers You Should NEVER Give to the Question "What?! No School Today?"

10. Well, normally yes, but this time of year I need help with the planting and plowing.

9. Goodness, no!!! I graduated 18 years ago, but thanks for the compliment!

8. No, we homeschool. We're just out to pick up a bag of pork rinds and some Mountain Dew, then we gotta hurry home to catch our soaps.

7. What?! Where did you guys come from?! I thought I told you to stay at school! I'm sorry. This happens all the time. (sigh)

6. There isn't? Why, you'd think we'd see more kids out then, don't you?

5. We're on a field trip studying human nature's intrusive and assumptive tactics of displaying ignorance and implied superiority. Thanks for the peek!

4. On our planet we have different methods of education. (Shhh! No, I didn't give it away...keep your antennae down!)

3. Oh my goodness! I thought that today was Saturday...come on kids, hurry!

2. Noooooope. Me 'n Bubba jes' learns 'em at home. Werks reel good!

And the number one answer we should NEVER give to the question: "What? No school today?"

1. "What? No Bingo today?"
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#102 of 105 Old 12-27-2006, 06:26 PM
 
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Rofl!!!!

Rachel & Eli , with DS1 (7/99) and DS2 (11/01) twins DD1 & DS3 (01/10)
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#103 of 105 Old 12-27-2006, 07:10 PM
 
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My daughter begged for a long time to go to "candy-garden" where they "ride in the cool bus and play soccer all day." And lunch boxes look pretty cool too.

But when I explained to her that she wouldn't get to be with her brothers and sister all day, she stopped begging.
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#104 of 105 Old 12-27-2006, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well now, "candy-garden" *does* sound fun!!

Mama to three  
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#105 of 105 Old 12-28-2006, 01:46 PM
 
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deleted by me because I'm unable to share my POV.
Mommy68, this is not directed at you personally but I have noticed on this board people will come to debate homeschooling and then finally leave the thread with a rant about not being allowed to express their views here and that the Hsers are close-minded, etc.

I would think posts defending circumcision would not be all that well-received on that board, or posts defending formula-feeding by choice on the breastfeeding or lactivist boards, or posts describing all the benefits of a letting a child CIO on the co-sleeping board and so on. If someone is posting on the Learning At School board they probably don't want to defend and debate their choice of sending their child to school.

So either everyone on this site is close-minded and thinks their way is the only way or people are more willing to apply a double standard to the homeschoolers. Since I don't require people to think all choices are equally great to be open-minded, I would say it's the latter.
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