Dissobediance dosnt quite cover this...HELP - Mothering Forums

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Old 05-11-2007, 05:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Appologies in adanvance this is REALLY long.....


We would really appreciate some help here and I honestly don’t know where to start, what this all comes down to is that we are having a lot of problems with our grandson and just don’t know where or who to turn to for help.

J is 8 (almost 9) and he has been living with us full time for just over a year now, my husband has primary care of him as him mom can’t be relied on to look after him at all, the court awarded him this after she ran off to join some commune when he was only a few months old, it took almost a year to track her down and J was found naked in a forest rife with wolves, foraging for food, he was under 2 at the time, since then he has lived mostly with my husband and his previous wife.

In the last few years he has lost his uncle (age 21) his grandma, his great grandma (who he was very close 2) and almost his Papa (my husband) twice, he had a heart attack just over a year ago and is just now recovering from cancer surgery (thankfully they have cured it) I know this has to have its effects on him but he shows no emotion at all. To top all of this his Mom is currently in prison after failing to comply with probation requirements.

After my husbands previous wife was killed in a road accident, J lived with his Mom for about 15 months, during that time he was very neglected, the school he attended was aware of his Mom’s record but failed to let anyone know what was happening, he regularly went to school in his PJ’s often was either late or absent as his Mom was in a drunken, or drug related stupor from the night before, and lost A LOT of weight, During this time we married, it was too painful for my husband to return to his previous home often, there were just too many memories, so he had decided to allow his daughter to remain in the house and we bought land and had a new home built. Just as J was staring 2nd grade we received a very disturbing phone call from a neighbor, she was concerned that he was losing weight and had missed a lot of school, we had been calling to check up on him often (of course she lied about how he was) and he had stayed with us for a couple of weekends prior to this, but we hadn’t been able to persuade his Mom to either bring him to us, or allow us to pick him up for about a month before this call, she often wouldn’t answer the phone and was never at home when we called to see her(we found out later that a few times we were there she was passed out in the bedroom and J had got himself to school). We could never tell if she was home or not as she often leant her car to friends or just left it and walked home, we also found out that she had been leaving him home alone and going out drinking until the early hours of the morning.

After being unable to get in touch with his daughter for almost 4 weeks and a very disturbing phone call from her at about 3am, I managed to persuade my husband to go direct to the school and find out what was going on, they were very reluctant to say much at all, they had specific instructions that if J seemed unwell or was having ANY problems at all they had to call us, this was a court order, they failed to comply and knew it so didn’t want to admit any fault on their part, We asked that they brought J to see us and I was horrified at what I saw, he didn’t look as though he had washed for a few weeks,(he smelt terrible) the clothes he had on were at least 2 sizes too small and looked like some I had thrown away about 6 months ago, they were full of holes and unwashed for ….ugh I wouldn’t like to think how long!!!, he was filthy and Very unkempt, we were both also shocked at his physical appearance, he had lost about 10lbs in less than a month, he was all skin and bone.

To this day I will never forget my dh face as he looked at J, horrified doesn’t come close to it, and I was in tears, we removed him from school that morning and took him back to his Moms house. It took us about an hour to finally get her to open the door, she looked worse that J and was obviously still drunk, while I took J into his bedroom to get his clothes my dh confronted his Mom, she admitted that she hadn’t been feeding him, all he had had in the last week was a couple of tacos from a local fast food place, he mentioned the early morning phone call and she told him that her intention had been to kill both herself and J, she was going to drive at speed off one of the high bridges here, something stopped her from going through with this, we don’t know what., but she had returned home that night with J asleep in the back seat. Managed to carry him into bed and then passed out on the floor in her bedroom, J had got himself up the following morning and with still nothing to eat had got himself to school, I still thank God that we had been paying for his meals at school as this was all he was really getting a day. We still feel guilty that we didn’t go to the house sooner. We brought J home with us that night and he has been with us ever since.

Like any boy his age he doesn’t like school, when he first came here we registered him with our local PS, he began to be bullied almost immediately, this escalated to the point where one of the boys tried to strangle him, in front of the teacher, and he came home every night covered in cuts and bruises, he was really unhappy so we decided to try and homeschool him after countless meeting with his teachers and countless arranged meetings that never happened with his principle, who was always unavailable, nothing was every done about the bullying, they either didn’t have the time or simply didn’t care!! I suspect the latter, but can’t prove it.

The problem I have right now is that he will not do anything he is either told or asked to do, he just doesn’t care at all, this extends to his school work, which is often incomplete or simply not done at all, when we ask he why he just shrugs his shoulders, and has this most annoying smile on his face while he does so. He has no respect for anything at all, either his own or those belonging to others, in the last few weeks he has caused so much damage here I hesitate to add up the cost. The most recent of which is damage to a $16.000 boat, destroying a radio and trying to hide the evidence ( Marine Radio) which will cost about $300 to replace, and just this evening after countless warnings and reminders to be careful he had finally managed to break out 3 seater recliner sofa ( about $2000), I have told him repeatedly over the last few months not to use the recliner as he doesn’t know how to get is back upright, his answer is to simply kick it…….. well tonight, he kicked too hard and managed to break it. He tells the most outrageous lies all the time, I have watched him do something he shouldn’t be,only to be told I was seeing things and it wans’t him!!!

What on earth do you do with a child that WILL NOT do anything they are told to, I know PS would be a disaster, but we are considering sending him back there, if he was a few years older I honestly think my dh would put him in military school, he went to one and says it would do him good. This disobedience isn’t simply the normal 8 yr old forgetting to do things, he knows he is doing wrong and yet deliberately goes out of his way to do so, even trying to draw your attention to the fact at times. If he is told NOT to do something he always tries it to see ‘what would happen’. What worries me is that this evening he saw something on TV about guns, he knows he shouldn’t go anywhere near one, he asked a few questions and I asked what would he do if there was a gun on the table and he could reach it, would he leave it alone as he has been taught or not? He just grinned at me, and I know he would have to pick it up and play with it, he WOULD try shooting something just to see what size hole it makes, if it lives, or how much mess it makes…. I just know it and it really worries me. Hard as I try he has no concept of responsibility, doesn’t care about anything or anyone (to the point he is really cold and emotionless) He has deliberately hurt the dogs in the past just to see what they would do, we’ve also caught him throwing rocks and sticks at squirrels in the trees, to see of the dogs would be able to catch them when they fell out, and He didn’t take into consideration what I would do…of course, and when I asked what he thought would happen to the poor squirrel? He said he hoped they ripped it apart…ARGHHHH I cant stand cruelty to any animal. He is extremely cruel and cold hearted and this worries me.

If you have any suggestions (apart from a psychiatrist, which believe me we have considered) that may help us out I would be forever in your debt and truly appreciate it.
We have to stop this with him but nothing we have tried so far works, after this evenings episode with the couch, my dh told him to bring him all his Xbox games and his game boy…all he said was a light hearted OK!!!!!. No remorse at all, he even had that grin on his face when he said it. Its really getting scary for me and I don know what to do to stop this..
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:10 AM
 
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I know you said no replies about counseling, but, quite honestly, that is where I would begin. A therapist can work with you/dh as well as with your grandson.

A good professional will help you as you help your grandson, and will have many, many good ideas.

Your grandson has been through so much, but he is also very young, so intervention right away will hopefully be quite effective.
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:12 AM
 
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I know this isn't what you asked for but the first thing that came to my mind was never mind about school and get this kid some counseling! He obviously needs some kind of help proccessing all the horrible, horrible things he has been through. He sounds depressed at the very least and there is probably WAY more going on then that. I doubt you'll get any work out of him until this is dealt with.

Please, PLEASE get this kid some help!
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Old 05-11-2007, 11:33 AM
 
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Deschool. Don't do anything "schooly" at all. At all. This kid has had no control or choices in his life and no sheltering and nurturing or approval and appreciation. He doesn't need to learn what his peers are learning, he needs to learn he is absolutely valuable and worthy of love and a fantastic person. Maybe that is the most he needs to learn right now. The schooly stuff he can easily get later--don't worry about him being "behind".

Where would he like to go? An ice cream shop? A museum? A bookstore where he could pick out any book he likes? A thrift shop where you could buy him his own recliner and he can sit any way he likes? He could take apart old radios, or vacuums or small appliances and see how they run. He could have his own set of tools and build a birdhouse.

This poor kid. It is SO wonderful that you guys have taken him in. He is lucky to have you. He sounds like he is in such pain.

I think you should start there. Get him some professional counseling, and on the homefront be firm with your limits, but go out of your way to move heaven and earth to meet him where he is. Find ways to meet his needs/wants, even if they seem unreasonable (like going to get him his own recliner). Find areas where he can be in control and he can feel good about himself.

Help him know his ideas matter and that he is valued. Good luck!

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Old 05-11-2007, 11:39 AM
 
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My nephews went through some bad times, like this, when my ex-SIL decided that doing heroin was a better use of her time than parenting. :

I imagine negative attention is the only attention he's been used to lately. I imagine his mom is cold to him, and he manifests that.

Therapy, now, is the way to go. He probably has many more problems than you and your dh can handle on your own. This is too big an issue to try to "fix" w/ home behavioral changes. He needs therapy and cognitive/perhaps psychopharm therapy.

Good luck!

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Old 05-11-2007, 11:44 AM
 
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He's finally in a safe place and all sorts of true emotions and apathy are going to come out now.

Counseling and deschooling sounds great for now. Love, he needs unconditional love and for his grandfather to be consistent in discipline and his involvement.

You are such a Blessing in his life.
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Old 05-11-2007, 12:41 PM
 
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I know this isn't what you are asking, but I'm going to second (or is it 3rd or 4th) the suggestion of a counselor/social worker/etc. Before I stopped working last year, I was a social worker for an agency that works with chidlren and families. Cruelty to animals is a huge red flag. There is also the issue of him, most likely, having an attachment disorder due to the circumstances of his life, but especially his first year of life. Getting help now is so important....he is still so young, and with help from professionals, and the unconditional love you and your husband are giving, he has the potential to come through this. I have to say, of the many stories I've read about the mistreatment of children, your grandson's ranks high.



I also agree with this

Quote:
He doesn't need to learn what his peers are learning, he needs to learn he is absolutely valuable and worthy of love and a fantastic person. Maybe that is the most he needs to learn right now. The schooly stuff he can easily get later--don't worry about him being "behind".

Where would he like to go? An ice cream shop? A museum? A bookstore where he could pick out any book he likes? A thrift shop where you could buy him his own recliner and he can sit any way he likes? He could take apart old radios, or vacuums or small appliances and see how they run. He could have his own set of tools and build a birdhouse.

This poor kid. It is SO wonderful that you guys have taken him in. He is lucky to have you. He sounds like he is in such pain.

On the homefront be firm with your limits, but go out of your way to move heaven and earth to meet him where he is. Find ways to meet his needs/wants, even if they seem unreasonable (like going to get him his own recliner). Find areas where he can be in control and he can feel good about himself.
Helping him re-build his sense of self, and his understanding that there are limits in life, but we do also have control of where we walk between these limits is so important. More important than say, learning the 50 states and their capitols. There is plenty of time for that, and it will come so much more quickly, and will be something he truely learns and stays with him, if he learns it at his pace, and once he is back to a healthy balance and a positive self perception.

You and your husband are doing a wonderful thing. If children, even in the most horrible of circumstances, can create a lasting and positive realtionship with at least one loving adult, they can get through the negativity the have experienced.
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Old 05-11-2007, 12:55 PM
 
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there is a book, Hold on To Your Kids, by Gordon Neufeld, he talks about the ways older childlren attach to their parents / caregivers and how one can bond with an older child. he's been through so much. he is so lucky to have you. i think the first thing, before schooling, would be to establish a strong bond.
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Old 05-11-2007, 01:13 PM
 
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I completely agree with the posts. Deschool him first. He can't heal and deal with schooly subjects at the same time. Get his hands busy and get some professional help.

I had a thought that was along the same lines as one of the Previous posters. Maybe you can have him start fixing things instead of breaking them. You could fix old t.v.'s or lawn mowers. He could make bird houses and squirrel feeders or sew a dog bed.

And I LOOVE the idea of getting him his own recliner. Look on craigslist and you can often get them near free.

Good luck.
Lisa

Our children make a study of us in a way no one else ever will.  If we don't act according to our values, they will know.~Starhawk Rainbow.gif  New  User Agreement! http://www.mothering.com/community/wiki/user-agreement

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Old 05-11-2007, 01:42 PM
 
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Can you tell us more about why he isn't in therapy with a good psychologist already?
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Old 05-11-2007, 02:10 PM
 
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I know you said no counseling posts-- but I just put my dd in counseling because she's having some issues related to her sister who has long-term medical problems. She has only been to one session so far but the suggestions that came out of that session have made our daughter so much more receptive to us, in touch with her emtions and how to handle them, and given us some tools to help guide her. I wish I had done this sooner.

7yo: "Mom,I know which man is on a quarter and which on is on a nickel. They both have ponytails, but one man has a collar and the other man is naked. The naked man was our first president."
 
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Old 05-11-2007, 04:34 PM
 
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Wow. I'm not really even sure what to say here. This is one of the most heartbreaking stories that I've heard - maybe ever. Let me first say that my stepdaughter (she's 8 now) was deserted by her mother (a drug addict and alcoholic who "couldn't handle" being a mom) at about 3 1/2. When I met and married her dad, she was suffering from some pretty serious issues as a result. Now, nearly 5 years later, you would never know what this poor child's little heart has been through. She's sweet, funny, intelligent, and bubbly. And she has decided that, although she was "in that other lady's tummy", I am her mom, in the way that I am my own biological daughter's mom. So, yeah, things are good for her now, but let me make a point to say that we (my husband, myself, and his parents and mine) all had to take numerous steps to get her here (family counseling, behavior therapy, and constant effort on our parts in regard to how we interacted with her) . And, it certainly wasn't easy. That being said, this little boy has been through terrible things - far worse than my stepdaughter - far worse. He never has had someone love and nurture him. He never had a "mommy" the way most of us do. No one showed him affection; no one made him feel important; no one protected him; my goodness, no one even fed him!! What this child needs; more than discipline, more than homeschooling, more than anything - is unconditional, unsolicited LOVE!!!! He MUST get counseling. That's not even negotiable in my book. This kid has been setup for so much future failure and hurt; and, quite possibly, aggression and rage; that if it is left "untreated" and un-dealt with he doesn't have a chance in of "normalcy". My heart breaks for this boy. And for you and your husband. I honestly commend you for your dedication and commitment to such an enormous responsibility. That boy is very blessed to have you and your husband. My advice is this, 1. get him counseling; 2. just love him. Don't try so hard to set up a structured, disciplined environment yet. From where he's come from, he needs a very slow introduction to "normal" family life. He needs tons of positive reinforcement right now. A very dear family friend once said to us, for every 1 negative/critical remark you make to your child, give them 10 positive ones. Even children from very average homes need this. They need an over abundance of compliments and sincere "good jobs". Their so fragile. He really needs to be built up and loved. And it may take awhile for him to trust you and believe that you're being genuine. Pick your battles. Hurting animals is NOT okay - forgetting to put down the foot on the recliner - is it really that big of a deal? Even my grown husband forgets to do that! My suggestion would be to maybe check out some good parenting books. Some dedicated to addressing some of the issues you're facing (parenting a child from an abusive situation, behavioral problems, etc.) I know that helped me a lot when we were going through the "rough patch" with my stepdaughter. I hope you don't feel like I'm getting down on you or anything -- I'm absolutely not!! But I do know some of your frustrations first hand, and I know it's hard to look at things objectively when you're in the thick of it. Counseling for you and your husband might be a good idea too. I'm sure you guys could learn some really wonderful and effective ways of relating to and disciplining and caring for J. Just remember how much he needs you guys and your love; regardless of how he acts or whether he knows it now or not. I will be praying for you all. Please keep us updated, okay? May God bless you for your good, tender heart!
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Old 05-11-2007, 07:06 PM
 
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Oh, dear. I reiterate the pp's about getting him into counseling, and possibly you and your dh as well.

Also perhaps he should see a developmental pediatrician to make sure his nutritional deficiencies are rectified and are not having an effect on his cognitive and emotional skills. A small child losing so much weight and malnourishment can be very devastating on brain development.


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Old 05-11-2007, 09:13 PM
 
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I agree with the suggestion to deschool.

I know you say you aren't looking for psychiatric suggestions, and I'm sympathetic to where you're coming from. I am quite possibly the most vehemently anti-psychology person on this board, and I have written passionately about all the reasons why I think psychology and psychiatry are bad, especially for children. However--I have to say, even I would recommend looking at a professional for your grandson, just because of the hurting animals issue. Deliberately hurting animals is an enormous deal; it's not just misbehavior or quirkiness or whatever else. Children who hurt animals escalate to hurting people. The other stuff he'll get over, but, please, do something about the animal hurting. That is a real problem.
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Old 05-11-2007, 09:29 PM
 
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I'm new here, but I wanted to second the person who recommended the book "Hold onto your Kids". I'm reading it right now and it just sounds ~exactly~ like what you are seeing with your grandson. I think, too, that your situation is so serious that you really do need to find counseling/therapy.

Good luck,
Jennifer
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:09 PM
 
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i know it is not what you want to hear but I highly recommend a therapist that specializes in attatchment disorders.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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Old 05-12-2007, 03:32 AM
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he needs to be loved and allowed to express his feelings and loved.
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Old 05-12-2007, 04:09 PM
 
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I have to agree, quit schoolish stuff. He can't learn right now, no amount of cajolling, consequences or punishment can make him learn or make him care. There's a saying that says something like they'll never care how much you know until they know how much you care. He has been deeply hurt and scarred by his short life. He needs all the love you can possibly give him and then even more. He needs to know that you love him more than anything and then you have to be able to prove it.

You aren't going to like to hear this, but his behavior will get worse before it gets better. He will have to test you to see if you really do love him no matter what. He has to do it he won't even know he's doing it.

You need to make your house very safe for him. Have your husband take him out for icecream, to the zoo, etc and while they are gone put away stuff you don't want broke or that he could use to hurt himself or others. He's already shown that he has a violent side and you can't discount that or think that nothing is going to happen. Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

This poor little boy has been hurt so badly, it's all he knows. He's been abandonned, he thinks that you will do it to. He'll try everything to prove that you can't love him too. All he knows is that people who love him (or at least should) hurt him and leave him to fend for himself. He has no way of dealing with really being loved. He will test your love at every turn.

All that being said, I still think you should involve a counselor of some sort. One that is good with neglected kids and even more so, one that can address the animal cruelty. That is a huge warning sign that something very wrong is going on.

Just in case you want to know, I used to work with severely emotionally impaired kids. The kind who had to go to a special school set up just for them. So I've worked with lots of kids like this poor little guy. With therapy and consistant love and behavior interventions he can come around, it's just going to be very hard.
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Old 05-12-2007, 06:53 PM
 
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Counseling has its place. If you're not interested in a psychaiatrist and medicating him into a stupor (perfectly understandable!), that's no reason not to seek out a psychologist, perhaps one that specializes in attachment issues, certainly one that at least partly focuses on behavioral approaches.

I would also recommend contacting your local Foster Parent Association and signing up for some parenting classes to help you deal with this boy who has been so severely neglected, abused, and repeatedly abandoned.

And I ditto the deschooling. If you look at education as a long-term thing, with the ultimate goal of producing productive adults capable of happiness as well as prosperity, then it's obvious that the academics right now are irrelevant for this little boy, you need to start socializing him.

Also, you should seriously consider pursuing getting his mother's parental rights severed and you and your DH adopting him. Then, if something happens to your husband at least he'll still have you, kwim?

He's eight years old. Sending him off to military school isn't going to help him develop a normal human ability to attach and empathize after what he's been through. It'll just make things worse.

breastfeeding, babywearing, homeschooling Heathen parent to my little Wanderer, 7 1/2 , and baby Elf-stone, 3/11!

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Old 05-12-2007, 11:35 PM
 
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I agree with many of the pp's - here's a website on homeschooling and an article on deschooling -

http://home-educate.com/unschooling/deschooling.htm

congratulations on your new addition and good luck. He is lucky to have you.

As an aside - I have a student who was severely abused when was 0-3 and he has severe issues. I mean severe. He's 6 and he is JUST getting to the point after 3 years of intense therapy where he is able to be dealt with (I've known/taught him for 2 1/2 years) in a school setting. He still acts out more than the worst ADHD student I have known, but he said a whole sentence to me on Friday. I love him, yk, and that made my day. He may not be "normal" any day now (or for a few years... or decades) but what is NORMAL? Good luck and love him as much as you can!

~ Kim

mama to E (01-2007) and wife to C

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Old 05-13-2007, 02:01 AM
 
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He's testing you. He's been abandoned so many times that it's too hard to trust you. How far will he have to push until you abandon him? That's what he's wondering. And the fact that he pushes you at all says that he already is starting to trust you and that scares the crap out of him. I know this because I've been through this. My mother was killed when I was 2 1/2, and my father was a drug addict, so I went into foster care and was adopted at age 8. I was very hard to handle, and I was afraid of abandonment. I actually was sent to a military-type school, although it was religious. It was abandonment all over again, but my parents and I have since worked through these issues.

Anyway, I would be concerned about the animals thing. I never went to see a psychologist, and consider myself to be affected, but fine. But he may have reactive attachment disorder. The animals thing certainly fits the bill. He may have been so neglected that he needs therapy.

In any case, school would be the least of my worries. I would think that deschooling might be a mistake in this case, because it may feel like neglect. I would definitely be flexible and let him help to plan activities and areas of learning. Get to know what his interests are, what he's good at. Make him feel interesting and worthwhile.
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Old 05-13-2007, 01:33 PM
 
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In addition, I agree with others,find some counseling that specializes in helping foster a child that's been hurt- unschool for a solid year,and then see what happens-
but also- if you have material things on which you place a high value- you need to set your home up to keep him away from what he could destroy. getting a free recliner for him is a good start-- I noticed that everything he's ruined,you have a $$$ value set to it. Not picking,just noticing,b/c I believe this happens frequently with kids like this, they do mess with things they shouldn't,and things get destroyed. That's a big reason to find counseling for all of you. I don't know if you were mentally prepared for what was going to happen to your home,bringing back a child who does need a lot of patience and love.
You're right,this isn't about discipline,he needs you so badly,and this is how it manifests. You're doing a great thing- and I hope you find what you need....
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Old 05-13-2007, 04:34 PM
 
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I agree that disobedience has nothing to do with what's going on. It's not going to get better quickly either, as this child has been neglected, abused and bounced around. School seems like the least of the issues here. He's in tremendous pain.

I don't see any other solution besides a loving, devoted counselor.
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Old 05-13-2007, 04:47 PM
 
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Counseling has its place. If you're not interested in a psychaiatrist and medicating him into a stupor (perfectly understandable!), that's no reason not to seek out a psychologist, perhaps one that specializes in attachment issues, certainly one that at least partly focuses on behavioral approaches.

I would also recommend contacting your local Foster Parent Association and signing up for some parenting classes to help you deal with this boy who has been so severely neglected, abused, and repeatedly abandoned.

And I ditto the deschooling. If you look at education as a long-term thing, with the ultimate goal of producing productive adults capable of happiness as well as prosperity, then it's obvious that the academics right now are irrelevant for this little boy, you need to start socializing him.

Also, you should seriously consider pursuing getting his mother's parental rights severed and you and your DH adopting him. Then, if something happens to your husband at least he'll still have you, kwim?

He's eight years old. Sending him off to military school isn't going to help him develop a normal human ability to attach and empathize after what he's been through. It'll just make things worse.

:

We just finished our foster parenting class yesterday and I highly recommend it. Contact your local social services. You need legal guardianship and help finding resources.
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Old 05-13-2007, 10:36 PM
 
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Counseling has its place. If you're not interested in a psychaiatrist and medicating him into a stupor (perfectly understandable!), that's no reason not to seek out a psychologist, perhaps one that specializes in attachment issues, certainly one that at least partly focuses on behavioral approaches.
Totally agree!
And, just to note, if the potential of someone resorting to meds are one of the deterrants to seeking counseling, you can get help from a licensed social worker. They are very skilled at counseling and diagnosing, but are even more skilled at working through things with OUT prescriptions....because they aren't authorized to prescribe meds. Many have private offices....there are also licensed family therapists and other licensed counselors.....what they are called depends on your state...I just wanted you to know that psychologists/psychiatrists aren't the only option.

Hoping to hear how you all are doing s
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Old 05-13-2007, 11:15 PM
 
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The child has lost his mother and other families members he is close with, why wouldn't you consider counseling? He doesn't care because caring hurts too much, he has had some much loss in his life. Getting him good counseling is one of the most important thing you can do to protect his future. The last thing this child needs is to be shipped off to military school.

ITA with the other posts about deschooling him, and a psychologist not a psychiatrist that will drug him is the way to go. I'd also read the gentle discipline forum here and make a commitment to no corporal punishment.
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Old 05-13-2007, 11:38 PM
 
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Totally agree!
And, just to note, if the potential of someone resorting to meds are one of the deterrants to seeking counseling, you can get help from a licensed social worker. They are very skilled at counseling and diagnosing, but are even more skilled at working through things with OUT prescriptions....because they aren't authorized to prescribe meds. Many have private offices....there are also licensed family therapists and other licensed counselors.....what they are called depends on your state...I just wanted you to know that psychologists/psychiatrists aren't the only option.

Hoping to hear how you all are doing s

Psychologists do NOT prescribe meds. They are also not licensed to prescribe medication. Only psychiatrists who go to medical school can prescribe meds. Just want to clear up that misunderstanding.

I am in training to become a psychologist and I would recommend a psychologist over a social worker as psychologists are trained in empirically supported treatments. There are many psychologists that work with attachment disorders and use cognitive behavioral therapies--which I think your ds could benefit from.

Please take your grandson to a psychologist (or other counselor). It is great
that you and your husband are so committed to this boy and you are right to be concerned but you can't do this alone. He has so much going on his heart. He needs some extra help. Good luck!

Kylix
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Old 05-14-2007, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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PLease dont think think that we are opposed to a therapsit we absolutely are not, we tried really hard to, whilst he was at PS to get him the help we knew he needed, he completely refused to talk to them, he constantly asked for me, until they relented and asked me to attend one of the sessions thinking it would help him to ' open up', it didn;t work, he buried his head in my lap and refused to talk. I am his step grandma but he told me just today that along with his papa( grandad) I am the closest he has ever known as family, believe me we are all really close, I may not be his biological grandma but I love this little one as my own, and it hurts me so much to see the pain he is in. I am well aware that everything he is doing is normal, he's testing us to see if we will abandon him too...not going to happen.

I have no idea what his mom said to him, but I do know, through him, that he dosen't trust anyone in authoriity this includes a therapist, he really does have some strange ideas, like he dosen't completley trust the police and when I asked him why? all he would say is 'cos' mom told me, I can't get anything more out of him at all.

We have the love and trust of this child, but we need to convince him that no matter what, we will never hurt him, AND we will NEVER abandon him, it dosent' matter what he does we WILL be there for him, this is where we have the problem, Also we absolutetly MUST convice him that he is important, he has a very low self esteem,constantly telling us that he dosen't matter, I''m working on this right now, taking it one day at a time

The sad thing is, like most of these children that have been abused and neglected.....no matter what, they still love their Mom, I completely understand this, my main aim right now is to convince him that I am not his mom and in no way could ever take her place, indeed I don't want to do that, I will always be there to help him, I will always be there to support him, BUT I am not his mom.
After everything he has been through we have made it a point of never criticising his mom, we do point out that she made some really bad choices, I he will answer then, " well that's why I live here, I know my Mom cant look after me, but I also know that I can spend some time with her when she is home and I am happy with that"

He really does love his Mom but given the choice right now, he would choose to stay with us, he descibes his mom as being not responsisbly for anything, even herself when she gets drunk.

All of this really hurts me, no child his age should have any knowledge of any kind of drug, nor any alchohol abuse of any kind, I belive our children should be protected form the worst of everything, unfortunately J has seen the' dark side' of things and there is nothing I can do about that. he knows he has our love, to be honest I have never known a 9yr old cuddle up on the sofa quite like J, he clings to you all the time, and he wont let me out of his sight.

Thanks for all the advice, belive me we appreciate it Pschiciatric help is still a possibily for us, however we really want him to relax much more before we go that way, I can see us trying this again in a couple of years, but truly we need to wait until he accepts that he matters as a person, something he dosen't believe at the moment.
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Old 05-14-2007, 07:45 AM
 
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From personal experience, sometimes it takes a lot of time to open up talking to a therapist. As a child I went for years before I started talking about the abuse I endured (my parents really had no clue what was going on with me). You may think it's doing no good if he's not talking, but it may just take time, more time than grownups are often willing to give. Maybe let him deschool for a while and try again. He's been through a lot and there are many walls to smash through. My thoughts are with you
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Old 05-14-2007, 09:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Kylix View Post
Psychologists do NOT prescribe meds. They are also not licensed to prescribe medication. Only psychiatrists who go to medical school can prescribe meds. Just want to clear up that misunderstanding.

I am in training to become a psychologist and I would recommend a psychologist over a social worker as psychologists are trained in empirically supported treatments. There are many psychologists that work with attachment disorders and use cognitive behavioral therapies--which I think your ds could benefit from.

Please take your grandson to a psychologist (or other counselor). It is great
that you and your husband are so committed to this boy and you are right to be concerned but you can't do this alone. He has so much going on his heart. He needs some extra help. Good luck!

Kylix
Oh My goodness....I'm so sorry....It was late last night and I didn't get to double check my post, and I made that error ....thank you for clearing that up!!
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