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#181 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 03:59 PM
 
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Well, internet and forums like these ones is the type of learning and forums are for people to post their questions/answers.
Yes it is. A quick search through the forums will give you lots of information about homeschooling and college, as will a google search. That's what I mean by taking responsiblity for one's own learning. If you are truly interested then why not do a bit of additional research and come back with well thought-out questions.

I think people have been very gracious offering you plenty of information about their very personal decisions. While I appreciate your posted thank you's, I do think that you are perhaps unaware that the tone of your posts isn't very respectful. None of the posters here went into the decision to homeschool lightly. They are well read and incredibly thoughtful about the paths they choose for their children, often having carefully researched and weighed all possiblities. I'd like to suggest to you that, as someone who is less educated about the topic of alternative education, your challenging statements about our decisions aren't likely to further the discussion and that there are perhaps more graceful ways of getting the information you seek.

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#182 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 04:00 PM
 
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#183 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 04:11 PM
 
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Thank you all for your answers. I do have a better idea about homeschooling now.

One last point though. A number of you stated that kids really don't need to sit in classes to learn. Kids really don't need teachers as teachers and they can learn all the material (including not-so-basic math) on their own just by reading the textbooks, searching the internet, etc.



So, if that's your view, then how come after 10-12+ years of homeschooling....your kids (at least some of your kids) end up going to colleges? Wouldn't it be easier for them (as well as less expensive) to learn all of those things on their own at home? After all, they can buy the same textbooks as they get in colleges/universities. Also, after 10+ years of homeschooling, they should really be active experienced learners who (I think) could learn everything without anyone else's help just by "living it". As many of you said, there is also no real value to group work. So, why after all those 10+ years of "homeschooling freedom" instead of "institutional environment in a classroom", your kids end up going to that "institutional environment" anyway. In that institutional environment they might not be the brightest (and it will lower their self esteem), they would have to learn at the same pace as everyone else...they would have to sit in the classroom and do homework and prepare for tests after school...so why go for it?

HI, I haven't read all the replies yet, but I'd like to address some of these questions.

From my experience, college and grad school WAS living it. Absolutely nothing like my public school K-12 "education" (of which I remember nothing).

I went to public school and got straight-As. Can't remember one thing I was taught there. I took a 10 year break to be a professional actress, then decided to go to college. Once I was enrolled, I became interested in biology and anthropology. I took the intro courses, then promptly started working in a professor's laboratory. I worked in labs while taking courses. The courses supplemented my hands-on learning.

Once I got to grad school, it was ALL hands-on, living learning.

Something else -- if one wants to invent things, publish findings from an investigation, conduct experienments, etc., then one must be affiliated with a University (or there will be no funding, little submission credit, etc.). So while one can certainly learn outside of a classroom, if one wants to DO certain things, they must begin doing them within a University setting for their career to even get started.

Not so with K-12 "education."

Incidentally, my husband graduated high school not knowing how to take 10% from 100. He then became interested in math and physics, taught himself what he needed to know in order to ace entrance exams, and then was admitted to MIT and then Harvard (first Masters, then Ph.D). In SPITE of his
public school education, he got where he wanted to go.

Now, why are we homeschooling our kids?

1) Quality of education and self-motivation -- I think institutionalized learning (fom K-12) is a joke, and nothing like real life (not so with college +, as I described above). Kids get little quality and come out with close to zero self-motivation.

2) Family time. I believe in nurturing strong family bonds. Can't do that very well if everyone is seperated from each other for almost all of the waking hours.

3) Freedom. We do what we want, on our own time table, travel wherever, etc.

4) I've seen the local Pre-K/K teachers at the playground. They look tired and grumpy 100% of the time. They snap at the kids and don't allow them to play on half the equipment (too dangerous...: ). While this isn't THE reason for our long-term decisions, it definitely supports our desire to keep our kids home right now.

5) Peer pressure/ bullying. It's everywhere, starting as soon as the kids go to school fulltime. I don't want my kid to be subjected to any of it. Most of the kids we plays with are also homeschooled. There is a noticeable lack of conformity or pressure compared to what I see in our school-kid acquaintances.

Must run now, perhaps more later.
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#184 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 04:15 PM
 
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None of the posters here went into the decision to homeschool lightly. They are well read and incredibly thoughtful about the paths they choose for their children, often having carefully researched and weighed all possiblities. I'd like to suggest to you that, as someone who is less educated about the topic of alternative education, your challenging statements about our decisions aren't likely to further the discussion and that there are perhaps more graceful ways of getting the information you seek.

Yes. I know for me, I have been reading about & interested in homeschooling since the mid to late 1990's. Joe wasn't even born until 1999, but I wanted to learn as much as I could about alternatives to public school.

My mother & my sister both put their kids in the public school system. Why? Because that's what you DO. My sister, like my mother before her, makes her kids do the homework their teacher sends home, study for the tests the teacher tells them to study for... she knows that they don't get the recess or PE that they should, that their lunches are substandard (Joe had 2 frozen waffles for lunch so who am I to talk ) that there is bullying & foul language & blah blah blah... & yet I I am the one who is accused of not THINKING about Joe's education. My BIL sent me a horrible email, telling me that what I did was "Romper Room." This is when Joe was FIVE!!!! And my BIL's son was just a baby at the time. :

Every decision I make is for Joe's best interest. I breastfed & coslept because I was committed to meeting Joe's needs, all of them, 24-7. I still am committed to this goal. There was no way that I could have APed him for the first five years of his life, & then when he turned five, put him on a bus every weekday for 40 hours a week, 10 months of the year.
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#185 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And are you really telling Karenof4 not to post here if she doesn't have TIME to do so??? Or am I misreading?
You are misreading. ("you" was in general)
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#186 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 04:26 PM
 
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You are misreading. ("you" was in general)
Well, I'm glad of that at least. Although I went back & reread that post, & I still don't understand what you were trying to say.
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#187 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post
This one is actually a support forum for homeschoolers. Others are welcome to post here to learn, so long as they are respectful.

I'm not usually nit-picky about grammar, but on a thread where we're discussing a parent's capability to homeschool vs. the capability of our public schools and teachers, I have to say... that was so grammatically incorrect that I barely understood it. : It just seems ironic to me. :P
I am doing pretty well wrt grammar as English is my 3rd language. I also found your comment disrespectful and offensive. Oh, and don't jump to conclusions. I never went to a public/private school in North America.
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#188 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 05:09 PM
 
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I am doing pretty well wrt grammar as English is my 3rd language. I also found your comment disrespectful and offensive. Oh, and don't jump to conclusions. I never went to a public/private school in North America.
Can I ask where you went to school? One thing I have found talking to people online is that many people who went to school in Europe, for example, have limited experience with some of the problems many American schools have. I've talked to Europeans who could not comprehend why anyone would homeschool until I told them what school was like for me, and then they understood. And what they told me about public school in their countries made me think I might not homeschool if we lived over there, although of course it depended on the school and the country.
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#189 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 05:12 PM
 
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I am doing pretty well wrt grammar as English is my 3rd language. I also found your comment disrespectful and offensive. Oh, and don't jump to conclusions. I never went to a public/private school in North America.
I also assumed that you went to school in North America. Oops. Sorry about that!

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Can I ask where you went to school? One thing I have found talking to people online is that many people who went to school in Europe, for example, have limited experience with some of the problems many American schools have. I've talked to Europeans who could not comprehend why anyone would homeschool until I told them what school was like for me, and then they understood. And what they told me about public school in their countries made me think I might not homeschool if we lived over there, although of course it depended on the school and the country.
I can see this- if you grew up in a country that doesn't have the problems that are common in US schools, it would be hard to grasp the reasons why we choose to do it...
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#190 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 06:48 PM
 
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You are misreading. ("you" was in general)
Actually, no, she wasn't misreading. You were responding directly to a quote by Karen, so it would logically follow that you were addressing her unless you specifically stated otherwise.
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#191 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 07:22 PM
 
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Actually, no, she wasn't misreading. You were responding directly to a quote by Karen, so it would logically follow that you were addressing her unless you specifically stated otherwise.
So I WASN'T misreading. Misintrepreting what was meant, perhaps, but not misreading.
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#192 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 07:32 PM
 
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I'm not going to make it through 10 pages so just throwing out my quick 2 cents.

Many of the teachers I had did not teach the things they studied. They aren't experts, either. I'm a smart person and better at explaining things than most teachers I've had. The amount of time U.S. high school students are taught is about 2 1/2 hours. The rest of the time in school is a waste of time. I don't believe it is important to learn all the things that are taught in school. I'm sure if my ds decides something is important to know he will learn it. If he chooses to learn it, he will remember it.

Mom to unschooling 4everboy since 8/01
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#193 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 08:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by M_of_M
I am doing pretty well wrt grammar as English is my 3rd language.
Might help to tell us that in the first post.

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Originally Posted by M_of_M
So, if that's your view, then how come after 10-12+ years of homeschooling....your kids (at least some of your kids) end up going to colleges? Wouldn't it be easier for them (as well as less expensive) to learn all of those things on their own at home? After all, they can buy the same textbooks as they get in colleges/universities. Also, after 10+ years of homeschooling, they should really be active experienced learners who (I think) could learn everything without anyone else's help just by "living it". As many of you said, there is also no real value to group work. So, why after all those 10+ years of "homeschooling freedom" instead of "institutional environment in a classroom", your kids end up going to that "institutional environment" anyway. In that institutional environment they might not be the brightest (and it will lower their self esteem), they would have to learn at the same pace as everyone else...they would have to sit in the classroom and do homework and prepare for tests after school...so why go for it?
To me that comes off as being sarcastic. maybe that is not your intention but that is how it sounds. This is a suport board not a debate board.

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Originally Posted by moonfirefaery
YOU don't have to be so negative either, and I'm not the ONLY one who thinks you are being disrespectful and snarky. Invalidating someone's reasons for raising their children a certain way IS disrespectful. We haven't challenged your position; we aren't questioning people's reasons for public schooling. What makes you think its acceptable to do it to us? It doesn't matter that you haven't torn apart every single post; doing it to a few is just as rude. How am I limitting your posts? I'm just saying that you don't seem sincere about trying to understand; you seem like you're trying to show us the error of our ways. It's not that you're 'in' or 'out'; it's that it's as unacceptable for you to challenge us here in the homeschooling forum as it is for us to challenge you in a public schooling forum. You don't act like you accept any of our answers or think any of them hold any value whatsoever; I feel like I am talking to someone who thinks I'm full of crap. That's the problem. I'm happy to answer your questions; we all are. But when we answer them don't be like "Oh well that's due to ___ not homeschooling!" or ask questions in a way that insinuates our children are missing out on something. I'm not even a homeschooler yet, and I feel disrespected by your tone.
Exactly!
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#194 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 09:26 PM
 
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So whether or not a person can hold a job has nothing to do with how they were brought up or the education they received? I know PLENTY of people around here who homeschool. Their kids consistently score higher on tests, and are some of the smartest, most socialized, most well-behaved and wonderful children that I have encountered in my entire life. That alone is enough for me to homeschool. I happen to know that those kids are going to have a much easier time finding and keeping a job than many kids in the public school system. Some kids thrive in public school, and many do not. Homeschool motivates children individually and caters to their needs. Homeschooled children are often self-motivated and leaders in their community. The kids I know who are in public school, they are sweet, they are just fine, they are good kids--but when I compare them to the homeschool kids I know, the homeschooled ones are more motivated, better behaved, and are doing better academically amongst other things. That's not a general statement about public schooled kids; it's just what I've seen in my life. I was WOWed the first time I met homeschooled kids, and everytime I meet more I am WOWed again. Rarely do I meet children that are in public school who just WOW me like that. I can tell you that I certainly wouldn't have WOWed myself if I as an adult met my childhood self, and homeschooling probalby wouldn't have changed that for me because of my mother. But nevertheless, I wonder--if she were normal, and if she had home schooled me, would I have been differet? Your upbringing and your education make a HUGE difference in your capabilities.

If you're trying to convince us that public school is better, you're not going to have any luck, so what is the point of this questioning? IMO it isn't being done in a respectful, seeking-enlightenment sort of way. It's being done in a challenging, what's-the-point, don't-you-realize-you're-making-a-mistake, all-your-points-are-invalid kind of way. That's the impression I'm getting, like you're trying to take our explanations and invalidate them by offering alternate explaations of your own--when you don't know anymore than we do what the truth is about how kids turn out, how motivated they are. The statistics are in the favor of homeschooling, and other than that we have only common sense and experience. If yours tells you that public school is best, then do that. But my common sense tells me my son will learn better at home and my experience tells me that he'll be a better person for it. And my sense of duty as a mother tells me that this is a job that is mine and that I shouldn't pawn off on others who have 30 kids to teach math to in one hour.


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I think people have been very gracious offering you plenty of information about their very personal decisions. While I appreciate your posted thank you's, I do think that you are perhaps unaware that the tone of your posts isn't very respectful. None of the posters here went into the decision to homeschool lightly. They are well read and incredibly thoughtful about the paths they choose for their children, often having carefully researched and weighed all possiblities. I'd like to suggest to you that, as someone who is less educated about the topic of alternative education, your challenging statements about our decisions aren't likely to further the discussion and that there are perhaps more graceful ways of getting the information you seek.
:
I just wanted to say that I'm not even a mother yet and I have been researching homeschool/unschool for the last 3 years. I know that after the horrible experiences I had with public school my children will never be subjected to that. When I started college I was totally unprepared. I was not used the level of the work, and I certainly wasnt used to the creativity and motivation it takes to do well in college (that was beaten out of me from being in public school all of my life). A pp talked about how she can't believe how some parents act like the cookie-cutter art projects their kids bring home are so great. Well, that's a HUGE reason I will homeschool. I was never encouraged by a teacher to be creative or do my own thing, but to put together whatever little projects they had prepared and to make sure to "color inside the lines". My children will be free to fully explore their creativity and to seek out and find things in life that they are passionate about.
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#195 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Can I ask where you went to school? One thing I have found talking to people online is that many people who went to school in Europe, for example, have limited experience with some of the problems many American schools have. I've talked to Europeans who could not comprehend why anyone would homeschool until I told them what school was like for me, and then they understood. And what they told me about public school in their countries made me think I might not homeschool if we lived over there, although of course it depended on the school and the country.

I did go to school in Europe and the school system in my home country is very different from what I see here. However, the school I went to is even further away from homeschooling than here. I did enjoy school though and I do remember most of the things I learned there.

When I compare schools in my home country and in North America, I can clearly see that there are some things that are done better in my home country and then there are other things that are done much better here. Overall, I am satisfied with public schools here.

I also think that regardless of whether a child is homeschooled or 'in school', if he/she wants to learn (and learn more than what was taught in school) he should be able to do so.
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#196 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 09:58 PM
 
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Thank you for your reply. It does answer my questions.
The only thing though, for me personally, getting through high school and being 'smart enough' has nothing to do with being a good teacher to a child.
The proof that homeschooled children do well when taught by parents who were not educated to be teachers is in the test scores that show that homeschoolers on average score HIGHER than public schooled children. Amazing, eh? Shows just how littl school are teaching our kids, or how little our kids retain.
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#197 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 10:09 PM
 
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To the OP, I have not read this thread, but I just want to suggest that you perhaps pick up a book, any book by John Holt, a public school teacher who advocated unschooling. Also, find a book that will tell the history of the development of the public school system in this country. Just my two cents worth. High schools here was mandated in the 1920s to cut the unemployment rate and stem the support for the Child Labor Amendment which still to this day circulates among the State Legislatures.

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#198 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 10:12 PM
 
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I did go to school in Europe and the school system in my home country is very different from what I see here. However, the school I went to is even further away from homeschooling than here. I did enjoy school though and I do remember most of the things I learned there.
The impression I've gotten from other Europeans is that school in Europe, especially at the high school level, is more like university here - less goofing around, less wasted time, more serious study of subjects students are taking voluntarily. If that's accurate, then it does sound far removed from homeschooling, but it sounds like what I think formal schooling should be like, if you are going to take formal schooling.

I feel like the public school system in America is the worst of both worlds - on the one hand, regimented, authoritarian, rules-based, focused on conformity and meeting norms, but on the other hand, lacking the serious academic focus that makes that kind of formality worthwhile.
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#199 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 10:35 PM
 
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We homeschool for a myriad of reasons.

The one I'm quite pleased with currently is my son's reading ability.

This year was Kindergarten. He knew his letters and some sounds before we started but did not read.He's now reading either 2nd grade level or 4th grade level depending on the test he took.

Public school can't touch those results even if they tried.
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#200 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 10:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Did I just read a post where a non home schooler is telling a home schooler to not post on a thread about homeschooling?.
First of all, I did not post this thread here. I posted it in TAO, (where ~40% of people do not homeschool). Moderator transfered my thread here.

[/QUOTE] You came in here with a negative opinion of homeschooling [/QUOTE]

I came here without any opinion about homeschooling.
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#201 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 10:47 PM
 
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this is my first reply....there seems to be a lot that i don't know about this forum...but i like it and want to get involved...

HOMESCHOOLING has been a discussion for my husband and i since my 4 year old was a baby...i have always been a devil's advocate to the subject until recently. i picked up a book called "essential homeschooling" which actually has a lot of factual information and has helped me with the validity of the concept. did you know that the required time for "focused" learning for a preschoolerkindergartner is 30-60 minutes? i thought that was interesting. the rest of the time should be spent (in my opinion) investigating, creating, playing, eating and so many other positive activities...
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#202 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 11:12 PM
 
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First of all, I did not post this thread here. I posted it in TAO, (where ~40% of people do not homeschool). Moderator transfered my thread here.

I am glad you mentioned this. I meant to point it out, in fairness to you, a few times on this thread, but I kept getting pulled away...
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this is my first reply....there seems to be a lot that i don't know about this forum...but i like it and want to get involved...

HOMESCHOOLING has been a discussion for my husband and i since my 4 year old was a baby...i have always been a devil's advocate to the subject until recently. i picked up a book called "essential homeschooling" which actually has a lot of factual information and has helped me with the validity of the concept. did you know that the required time for "focused" learning for a preschoolerkindergartner is 30-60 minutes? i thought that was interesting. the rest of the time should be spent (in my opinion) investigating, creating, playing, eating and so many other positive activities...
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#204 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 11:26 PM
 
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M of M: I appreciate that your thread originally started in TAO (which would explain the "argumentative" nature of the wording). The audience you were originally writing to was not a homeschool support community. This helps me to understand where you are coming from now. Also, I admire that you have stuck around and continued to post in the thread.
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#205 of 253 Old 05-18-2007, 11:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PJsmomma View Post
We homeschool for a myriad of reasons.

The one I'm quite pleased with currently is my son's reading ability.

This year was Kindergarten. He knew his letters and some sounds before we started but did not read.He's now reading either 2nd grade level or 4th grade level depending on the test he took.

Public school can't touch those results even if they tried.
Actually they can. My daughter is in Kindergarten and reads at a 2nd grade level, although it is through the cooperative efforts of both her teacher and us.
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#206 of 253 Old 05-19-2007, 12:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Potty Diva View Post
Actually they can. My daughter is in Kindergarten and reads at a 2nd grade level, although it is through the cooperative efforts of both her teacher and us.
Also, learning to read is developmental. Re: a child who goes from learning letters to reading on a 4th grade level in less than a year...that's a credit to the child, not the teacher, IMHO. He'd probably do that in school too, I would guess. If it were as simple as great homeschool technique, all homeschooled 5 year olds would be reading on a 4th grade level. Kudos to the kid though...
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#207 of 253 Old 05-19-2007, 12:31 AM
 
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My son read at a 7th grade level in grade 1, not through the efforts of his teacher, nor.

He went from barely knowing his alphabet to a 4th grade level in French and a junior high level in English in 8 months, but the personality conflict between him and his teacher was so huge that she insisted he couldn't read at all. She tried to fail him, gave him remedial work, made him read beginner books when he was reading Harry Potter and The Hobbit on his own.

I finally had to bring in an outside agency to test ds and mediate in the confilict between a 6 year old, and a 50 year old woman with 25 years of teaching experience. She eventually lost her job because of how she treated ds, but is still allowed to teach. Ds, on the other hand, can never be given back the year she stole from him.
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#208 of 253 Old 05-19-2007, 01:07 AM
 
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We unschool because...

at 4, YoungSon saw a painting and asked, "Was that painted by the guy who cut off his ear?"

at 6, DD had a real job, was paid real money, as a mother's helper,and today at 12, plans to be a midwife or doula. She has never wavered in her interest in babies. It is totally fair for her to realize she will never need algebra in her life.

at 17, ElderSon had the self-confidence to join the Army, in spite of his pacifist mother. I don't like his chioce, but I admire his strength of character.


Put simply, we unscool because it works.

Rhu - mother,grandmother,daughter,sister,friend-foster,adoptive,and biological;not necessarily in that order. Some of it's magic, some of it's tragic, but I had a good life all the way (Jimmy Buffet)

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#209 of 253 Old 05-19-2007, 02:49 AM
 
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Why Homeschool? The question is almost the same to me as why go to public school, religious private school, Waldorf, Montessori etc...? For me it is because it fits with our family, our expectations, our experiences, and relationships to each other. Many homeschoolers are cynical about public education and think they CAN in fact do better. Others feel a need to be better connected to their children and education during their short childhood. There are about as many reasons to homeschool as there are there are homeschoolers. I see school as ideally an extention of the family and community. Family, community and school should complement each other and uphold each other. Not everybody or family is the same, which is why I am a proponent of diverse educational options. I'm homeschooling and this year one of my children began attending a private school. I find myself lucky to have found a school that IS a good fit for us (and my ds)--I also realize that in many places I would not have had this option. In that situation we would still be homeschooling ds.

As for having the ability to educate a young person... both my husband and I are highly educated and have held several demanding jobs, but for me the hardest one and the one I was least prepared to do was being a stay-at-home-mom to an infant. Yet somehow I managed, and what was even more humbling was that almost everyone can do it. I see homeschooling in the same light. Because you are committed to these young people and to homeschooling, you just do it and somehow you are able to do it. By the way, my sister is a teacher, but when she gets stuck in her lesson plans, she calls me for ideas!
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#210 of 253 Old 05-19-2007, 03:48 AM
 
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I didn't jump to conclusions or make any judgements on you. I simply stated that I found that ironic, and I'm sorry you find it disrespectful and offensive.

If you came in without an opinion you aren't doing a good job of demonstrating that neutrality, which should be clear from the way people are responding to you. You don't seem neutral to me, so you're not portraying that too well.

Regardless of where you posted the thread initially you need to be respectful of those who take the time to respond--and not accuse us of being disrespectful as a retaliation to us stating we find your words and tone offensive.

fambedsingle2.gif Heather, 25, single mom to Corbin, 5, and Orin, 3  uc.jpg  delayedvax.gif  nocirc.gif
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