Does your 6yo know these things? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 09-20-2007, 09:37 PM
 
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My kids have so much working knoweldge of all manner of things.
Any kid in a rich environment would. It's just the idea that that particular list of things is important for every 6-year-old to know (and, implied, that it ought to be taught,) that some of us take issue with. I could write a much longer list than that of things that my kids know, including things that are important for them as unique individuals to know, but it is absurd to think that it (or any particular list) should hold for all individuals, and moreover to present oneself as an authority on the subject of what all 6-year-olds ought to know.
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Old 09-20-2007, 09:38 PM
 
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- Fractions

yes, basic ones

- What a synonyn, antonym, and hononym is

No

The definition of democracy,
yes

the duties of the President,
in a very basic way

the meaning behind symbols such as the flag,
yes

the American Eagle
no

and the Statue of Liberty
yes



- The literary terms "plot, setting, characters, hero and heroine"
no

- Count to 100 by 2s, 5s and 10s
yes

- Use tally marks for counting
yes

- Understand place value for 1s 10s and 100s
yes

- Know about famous Americans - Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Susan B. Anthony, etc.
yes, Ben Franklin, George Washington, Abe Lincoln, and Harriet Tubman

- The Maya, Aztec and Inca civilizations
no

- The American Revolution
no, but she knows about the Civil War

- Major world religions
a few

- The world's major oceans, continents, and northern and southern hemispheres
yes

- Animal classification (classes, families, etc.)
no-- but she knows mammal, reptile, etc.

- Three major kinds of rocks
no

- Rhythm, melody, pitch, dynamics, tempo and timbre
no

- Strings, bass, woodwinds, percussion
no


I think the things you are listing are all about 2nd grade level or beyond with the exception of the math concepts. My dd is ahead in several subjects but she has not been introduced to some of these things.

I noticed that the list didn't have anything much with science other than the animal and rock classifications. What about planets, parts of plants, how plants grow, how chicks come from eggs, the weather (tornadoes, etc). My dd learned all about those things last year.

7yo: "Mom,I know which man is on a quarter and which on is on a nickel. They both have ponytails, but one man has a collar and the other man is naked. The naked man was our first president."
 
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Old 09-20-2007, 09:40 PM
 
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this thread is in regard to whether or not a 6 year old should know the things listed - not whether or not they are important and should be learned over time.

it amazes me that even homeschooling threads have an underlying tone of comparison when it comes to our children....and with each other for that matter.
Oh, I know what it's about. I am trying to be compassionate. I said none of that is important. None of it. It's nothing to worry about. It's not important. I know it's not important.

But there is always an underlying tone of how that sort of knowledge is not something any child needs to bother with. That tone *is* in this thread. It's in most hsing threads. "Why are you worried about that?" 'Don't push" are often leveled at the poster, unless it's clearly part of a 'structured' hsing thread.

'Factoids', 'useless information', 'pushing a child', 'I have a college degree and I don't know what rocks are lol!" etc etc etc. That tone is quite clear, if you've read through the thread. There is very little room for those of us with children who *want* at least some of this information-- few of us even admit it. And even when we do try to discuss this, it's very often dismissed or called 'pushing' .

You really don't see unschoolers or relaxed schoolers very often sharing certain information like this-- of their children wanting 'intellectual' information. It's almost always about running with the butterflies and such.

Heck-- we love butterflies...love them. Have the monarchs and milkweed in the yard to enjoy. But there are other things as well. And they do not come at the emotional expense of the child.

If people were not so dealthy afraid to share more than the tent- making, cookie baking, and the rock-skipping aspects of hsing, we'd not be having this disucssion.

Now, you can be upset with me, and think I lack compassion, but I am just sharing my thoughts.

You do not, *do not* have to agree with me, or like my thoughts at all. I am absolutely OK with that. But I don't think it's necessary to always think kids with great 'intellectual' historical, or scientific knowledge are puking up disconnected, and/or useless information.
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Old 09-20-2007, 10:00 PM
 
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Any kid in a rich environment would. It's just the idea that that particular list of things is important for every 6-year-old to know (and, implied, that it ought to be taught,) that some of us take issue with. I could write a much longer list than that of things that my kids know, including things that are important for them as unique individuals to know, but it is absurd to think that it (or any particular list) should hold for all individuals, and moreover to present oneself as an authority on the subject of what all 6-year-olds ought to know.
I respect the unique needs of each child. That's not at issue for me. Not in any way. I don't believe in drill, I don't believe in 'pushing' or ignoring the individual desires and gifts of people-- little or big.

A 6 yr old is pretty much at the mercy of what the adults around her expose her to. (Unless your Dahl's Matilda). If there is no exposure, there can be no desire. If people are thinking a child needs to learn everything on arbitrary sort of list, they are mistaken. Yet it also holds that parents can knowingly or unkowingly withhold information from a child because they believe the child is 'too young' or that some information is useless to a child. Lcck of exposure can be a problem. If some golks believe understanding ancient civilations or fractions etc are nothing more that disconnected , regurgitated information, that's a form of educational with-holding. I find that as misguided as pushing.
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Old 09-20-2007, 10:44 PM
 
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Oh, I know what it's about. I am trying to be compassionate. I said none of that is important. None of it. It's nothing to worry about. It's not important. I know it's not important.

okay, i'm not sensing that.

But there is always an underlying tone of how that sort of knowledge is not something any child needs to bother with. That tone *is* in this thread. It's in most hsing threads. "Why are you worried about that?" 'Don't push" are often leveled at the poster, unless it's clearly part of a 'structured' hsing thread.

'Factoids', 'useless information', 'pushing a child', 'I have a college degree and I don't know what rocks are lol!" etc etc etc. That tone is quite clear, if you've read through the thread. There is very little room for those of us with children who want at least some of this information-- few of us even admit it. And even when we do try to discuss this, it's very often dismissed or called 'pushing' .

i can't speak on behalf of anyone else, but my take on those comments (including my own) was to point out that many adults don't know the answers to some of the things on that list, so it seems absurd that a 6 year old should. i think most of the moms on this board do want their children to have an education that surpasses that of a public school - and i don't think there is an "us" vs. "them" mentality here. we are all homeschoolers, and we all want what is best for our children in every regard.

You really don't see unschoolers or relaxed schoolers very often sharing certain information like this-- of their children wanting 'intellectual' information. It's almost always about running with the butterflies and such.

hmm, i'll let unschoolers comment on that one.

Heck-- we love butterflies...love them. Have the monarchs and milkweed in the yard to enjoy. But there are other things as well. And they do not come at the emotional expense of the child.

again - no comment there from me.

If people were not so dealthy afraid to share more than the tent- making, cookie baking, and the rock-skipping aspects of hsing, we'd not be having this disucssion.

no comment

Now, you can be upset with me, and think I lack compassion, but I am just sharing my thoughts.

i'm not upset with you at all mama. i just felt like one of your post insinuated children who know these things are gifted ...as opposed too???? imo, we are talking about 6 year olds. my child is getting a very rich and thorough education; in this i have no doubt. and she CAN do some of the things on that list, but more importantly, a list cannot contain how amazing and knowledgable she actually is. i see you feel the same way about your kiddos - so we will just stop and agree on that note.

You do not, *do not* have to agree with me, or like my thoughts at all. I am absolutely OK with that. But I don't think it's necessary to always think kids with great 'intellectual' historical, or scientific knowledge are puking up disconnected, and/or useless information.

i never even insinuated that.

hugs mama.

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Old 09-20-2007, 10:51 PM
 
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But there is always an underlying tone of how that sort of knowledge is not something any child needs to bother with. That tone *is* in this thread.
Oh, I really disagree. I've seen this comment about the forum in general, and it left me puzzled - but in this case, we're all right here looking at the same thread at the same time, and I fail to see how anyone's implying that certain things are not worth bothering with. We're just talking about what the public schools have set up as expected curriculum for six year olds. Although, if we want to nit pick, I guess the term "bother with" does put a different tone on it.

I personally feel that a lot of it is simply much more appropriate to learn at later ages when it all fits into a fuller scheme of things and has a lot more meaning. - Lillian
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Old 09-20-2007, 10:53 PM
 
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Oh, I know what it's about. I am trying to be compassionate. I said none of that is important. None of it. It's nothing to worry about. It's not important. I know it's not important.

okay, i'm not sensing that.



i never even insinuated that.

hugs mama.

I can take all the hugs anyone can offer.

Ok, listen. I hate when people use the word 'gifted'. I do. I hate that I myself used it here. I can see that it seemed I lacked compassion there. But really, I feel the love for MDC mamas.

I don't mean that children who don't have certain info aren't brilliant and wonderful and gifted etc etc. That wasn't what I meant, and I know it sounded like that. No. I apologize.

When I talk about my particular kids, and they aren't all 'gifted' in *that way*. , I mean that some kids demand more of that crazy *stuff*. If you are 5 and can already read anything (and nobody taught you), you are often wanting more stuff to read. You might want all sorts of weird info that some of us think is nuts.

Fi, my oldest could read anything-- anything-- by age 5, (maybe the *anything* was closer to 6). There wasn't a grade level to attach to it. It wasn't a matter of not pushing. It was a matter of he drove us nuts. So this is a child filled with what some might call 'factoids' or useless information. lol He rarely forgets things. He's restless to *know*. (But he is also lots of fun, and really has a tremendous sense of humour). It's sort of delightful, really. He can connect ideas and connect eras . It's interesting.

So all I am saying is that what seems to be worthless information to some children or adults is another child's (or adults') nirvana. Is all I am saying. SOmetimes these threads seem anti-intellectual. As if scientists were all geeks, or kids who know certain things can't match their clothes, or have bad acne, or eyeglasses that slip off their noses,don;t know what a frog is, can't make a clubhouse out of found wood, have pasty white skin, or are otherwise uncool, socially stupid ...or gads...pushed to that crazy hunger. (And no I am not quoting anyone in this thread! )

My clever kids push my ass all the freaking time. They aren't clever because they know things...it's the relentless push to know things...things other people think are silly and worthless. So yeah, Geeks R Us.
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:14 PM
 
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For whatever it's worth, the unschoolers I've known in person happen to mostly be people who find intellectual matters even more important than many of their more traditionally oriented peers. And that is actually what makes some of them lean toward unschooling - because it can be a better vehicle for the kinds of thinking, questioning, and exploring that they find very important. I'm absolutely amazed that play activities are being pointed to as the only kinds of things they're interested in - but if we're talking about those things for young children, and especially children who don't happen to be "gifted" intellectually, then it makes all the sense in the world to me. Because the work of young children is to play!

If a gifted child wants to pursue something that is generally more common to older children, more power to him - but that doesn't mean everybody should be seeking those things out for their own younger children. I have never ever had any problem with people just coming right out and calling their children "intellectually gifted" - there are all sorts of different gifts and talents that children may have at any given time, and that just happens to be one of them. And it all balances out in the long run in various ways.

I think everyone should be looking out for their own children's needs regardless of what they may be. How could anyone be critical of the opinion that someone should not "push" a young child? Why would anyone even want to push? What can it possibly accomplish? The parent of a gifted child may watch her child doing and learning all sorts of impressive things - but it isn't about pushing to just watch and assist in a case like that, where it would be pushing with the average young child who has no interest in those particular pursuits. And that doesn't mean the average child is not a sponge who's learning an awful lot - just that different things are interesting and/or easy for various children at various ages, and some of them are more in the intellectual realm than others. I don't understand why this is so hard to make clear.
- Lillian
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:16 PM
 
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Oh, I really disagree. I've seen this comment about the forum in general, and it left me puzzled - but in this case, we're all right here looking at the same thread at the same time, and I fail to see how anyone's implying that certain things are not worth bothering with. - Lillian

I knew you would disagree. Anytime I see the word 'factoids' in relation to learning, my hackles are raised. I think you have a much higher tolerance.

Which is why you are Lillian, and I am not.

We need you here, we don't need me.
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:19 PM
 
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I knew you would disagree. Anytime I see the word 'factoids' in relation to learning, my hackles are raised. I think you have a much higher tolerance.

Which is why you are Lillian, and I am not.

We need you here, we don't need me.
I have to admit I don't know what you just said , but it's not true that we don't need you. Whoever would I have to bounce off of it weren't for you! : - Lillian
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:23 PM
 
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For whatever it's worth, the unschoolers I've known in person happen to mostly be people who find intellectual matters even more important than many of their more traditionally oriented peers.
n

- Lillian

IME, 'relaxed homeschoolers' are more open. There is no dogma attached to being relaxed.

But whatever, yk? Some of my bestest friends IRL are Radical Unschoolers, and I am among the few who understand. I am a good friend of all things radical.

I think what happens IRL, and then how it's reported n a hugely public and cantakerous board is rather a great gulch. Nobody wants to be called on the carpet in a thread where people are supposed to think a certain way. Nobody wants to get into arguments over 'gray areas'.

Me, I don't care. Although I don't know why... I must have a skin thicker than an avocado or chestnut....or something...
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:28 PM
 
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No and I'm thankful.
She is brilliant and enjoying being a little girl, it's her only chance. She'll have plenty of time for academics later.
xoxoxo

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Old 09-20-2007, 11:31 PM
 
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No and I'm thankful.
She is brilliant and enjoying being a little girl, it's her only chance. She'll have plenty of time for academics later.
xoxoxo

i love your blog for craft ideas. i did your apple stamps yesterday at my friend's house for the kiddos....and i can't wait to get corn and make the dolls!! so cute!!

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Old 09-20-2007, 11:50 PM
 
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No and I'm thankful.
She is brilliant and enjoying being a little girl, it's her only chance. She'll have plenty of time for academics later.
xoxoxo
And being smart (or having knowledge deemed 'inappropriate' to some) and being a little girl are absolutely mutually exclusive.

Lillian...are you and I reading the same thread?
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:52 PM
 
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I have to admit I don't know what you just said , but it's not true that we don't need you. Whoever would I have to bounce off of it weren't for you! : - Lillian
I really am a good tomato target. And if my chickens were not forever eating my over-ripe tomatoes, I'd have a few extra for you.
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Old 09-21-2007, 12:45 AM
 
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And being smart (or having knowledge deemed 'inappropriate' to some) and being a little girl are absolutely mutually exclusive.

Lillian...are you and I reading the same thread?
Well, I don't know - I didn't learn to read till I was 6, so I may not be caught up in comprehension, but, , let me see if I can get this straight..

Oceanbaby asks:
"For instance, does your 6yo (first grader) know stuff like: ___________"

And Eileen, who has a whole website and blog and business related to her own philosophy about early childhood, says "No and I'm thankful. She is brilliant and enjoying being a little girl, it's her only chance. She'll have plenty of time for academics later.
xoxoxo""

Is that the expression of the thread's "underlying tone of how that sort of knowledge is not something any child needs to bother with"?

Avocado-skin notwithstanding, your antennae must be one whole heckuva' lot more finely tuned than most of us poor clodhoppers could ever hope for our own. : - Lillian
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Old 09-21-2007, 12:52 AM
 
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Ds can name all 134 Thomas the Tank engine vehicles, tell you their number, color, and characteristics, and story line by line. He has no trouble remembering *important* facts. And name all the planets, their moons, the satellites orbiting the Earth and a bunch of constellations. And recognize all the instruments in an orchestra by sound. But, we haven't had a need to cover some of the facts listed, but have had reason to discuss others.

And I didn't remember what a "hononym" was either! : Who cares what it is called?


Pat

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Old 09-21-2007, 12:56 AM
 
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Well, I don't know - I didn't learn to read till I was 6, so I may not be caught up in comprehension, but, , let me see if I can get this straight..

Oceanbaby asks:
"For instance, does your 6yo (first grader) know stuff like: ___________"

And Eileen, who has a whole website and blog and business related to her own philosophy about early childhood, says "No and I'm thankful. She is brilliant and enjoying being a little girl, it's her only chance. She'll have plenty of time for academics later.
xoxoxo""

Is that the expression of the thread's "underlying tone of how that sort of knowledge is not something any child needs to bother with"?

Avocado-skin notwithstanding, your antennae must be one whole heckuva' lot more finely tuned than most of us poor clodhoppers could ever hope for our own. : - Lillian
My bjorns are pretty clod-hopper-y. So says dh.

If knowing a lot about Mayan civlizations, or knowing that getting a 1/2 a pizza is more than getting 1/8th of a pizza, is 'academic' and precludes being 'a little girl', my children have never had childhoods.
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Old 09-21-2007, 01:25 AM
 
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My bjorns are pretty clod-hopper-y. So says dh.

If knowing a lot about Mayan civlizations, or knowing that getting a 1/2 a pizza is more than getting 1/8th of a pizza, is 'academic' and precludes being 'a little girl', my children have never had childhoods.
Why the heck isn't there a little emoticon that just sighs... Anyhow...

I don't think that list simply consists of only the statement, "It might be cool to know a lot about the Mayans or to know that getting 1/2 a pizza is more than getting 1/8th of a pizza," does it? And has anyone here said that happening to know some of these things is "academic" and "precludes being 'a little girl'? I think people have just said that they don't think it's necessary or realistic for the average six year old to know all of that stuff.

My son told me when he was six that he wanted a classroom with text tubes in it, and the next year he did have a classroom with test tubes that came in with a the chemist dad of a little girl classmate. He was enthralled with the little science demonstrations - and that was the same year he got so interested in nuclear theory when he was home sick - but he sure as heck wouldn't have been even remotely ready or interested in hearing about much of that other stuff.

As Rebecca Rupp prefaced her book with,
"When it comes to curricula, kids should always come first. It's not what teachers teach that's important; it's what children learn - and what children learn best is what interests them, what they want and need to know." - Lillian

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Old 09-21-2007, 02:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Ds can name all 134 Thomas the Tank engine vehicles, tell you their number, color, and characteristics, and story line by line. He has no trouble remembering *important* facts. And name all the planets, their moons, the satellites orbiting the Earth and a bunch of constellations. And recognize all the instruments in an orchestra by sound. But, we haven't had a need to cover some of the facts listed, but have had reason to discuss others.
Wow, are we living in the same house? (Except for the instruments)

To answer USAmma's question, plenty of other things (like gardening and the planets) were in that chapter, I just listed the things that ds1 doesn't know. And yes, the list of what he does know is a lot bigger than the one he doesn't know.

Just to be clear, my intention of this thread had nothing to do with competition or bashing "intellectual" academics. It had everything to do with talking myself down from the ledge!
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Old 09-21-2007, 09:43 AM
 
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Any kid in a rich environment would. It's just the idea that that particular list of things is important for every 6-year-old to know (and, implied, that it ought to be taught,) that some of us take issue with.
This is where I stand. And I also agree with some things that Lillian has said. I'm responding simply because I was one of the unschooling-ish people who used the word "factoids" and I want to explain that I was not coming from an anti-intellectual place.

As you can see in my spotlight thread I have a 6 year old who is interested in things that are not remotely in the First Grade curriculum. And for us, unschooling is the vehicle that lets him really going after those things, because he's not busy doing other things on a list. I have zero notions of what kids should and shouldn't be doing. I just have notions of what "all kids" should and shouldn't *be expected* to do. I didn't take issue with learning about the wonderful Mayan civilization. I took issue with the idea that it was on a "must have" list for 6 year olds. And I surmised that the only way to present the richness that is the Mayan civilization, when it is part of such a massive laundry list of other must-have's, is that it must be presented in factoid format. You're not going to get an entire class of 6 year olds completely conversant in the Mayan civilization, along with all those other things in the course of a year without doling out factoids. If a 6 year old was independently interested in the Mayans, that would be totally different and it would come from inside him. I simply took issue with the list, not the contents by themselves.

I think I get where UUMom is coming from wrt an anti-intellectual tone in some of these threads. I've seen that before, at times. But at the same time, the unschoolers I've known have been some of the most eccentric intellectual people. I think the issue is the list of expectations tied to chronological age, not the subjects within the list.
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Old 09-21-2007, 10:37 AM
 
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Why the heck isn't there a little emoticon that just sighs... Anyhow...


You can use this one

I'd be ok with that. lol

And meant my clod- hoppers are Borns, not the baby carrier. That would really look silly.
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Old 09-21-2007, 10:50 AM
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I sometimes browse through Rebecca Rupp's Home Learning Year by Year. I love the book and think it has great resources, but sometimes I get a bit panicked because I feel like we are wayyyy behind in some areas. For instance, does your 6yo (first grader) know stuff like:

- Fractions
Yeah, we're working our way through Singapore 4a Math right now, which involves addition of fractions.
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- What a synonyn, antonym, and hononym is
Check. She loves anything having to do with language, though.
Quote:
The definition of democracy, the duties of the President, the meaning behind symbols such as the flag, the American Eagle and the Statue of Liberty
Not really -- she knows the very basic outlines of the above, but we haven't really gotten into major detail about those things.
Quote:
- The literary terms "plot, setting, characters, hero and heroine"
Yes. We do a lot of reading around here, though and basically don't watch television (especially not television for children), so just through talking about stories and novels and such, she's picked up the terms.
Quote:
- Count to 100 by 2s, 5s and 10s
Definitely -- when we started doing multiplication about two years ago, this was one of the first things we did. The Schoolhouse Rock songs are wonderful for teaching these concepts.
Quote:
- Use tally marks for counting
Yes. Approximately three years ago when we were doing Saxon 1a, which I really, REALLY do not recommend, it was an early skill.
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- Understand place value for 1s 10s and 100s
Yes -- when we switched from Saxon to Miquon Math, Miquon's use of the Cuisenaire rods really clarified this concept and made it accessible.
Quote:
- Know about famous Americans - Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Susan B. Anthony, etc.
Of the three, she knows most about Susan B. Anthony because she's read a few childrens' biographies about her.
Quote:
- The Maya, Aztec and Inca civilizations
Yes -- We use Story of the World for history and the volume we're on now (Volume 2) goes into the European conquest of the Americas and the civilizations already there.
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- The American Revolution
Mostly through reading American Girls and other books set in that period.
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- Major world religions
Yes-- Story of the World is pretty good about giving overviews.
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- The world's major oceans, continents, and northern and southern hemispheres
We just did continents! There are a ton of outline or blackline maps available online to teach the continents and countries. We didn't get horrendously specific with the 37 countries of Europe, but I did want her to know where England, France, Spain, Germany, Greece, Turkey, and Italy were at the very least.
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- Animal classification (classes, families, etc.)
Well, I don't know if she can tell me the genus and species of an animal, but she can tell me if it's a reptile, a mammal, an insect, a fish, and so on.
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- Three major kinds of rocks
Probably not.
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- Rhythm, melody, pitch, dynamics, tempo and timbre
- Strings, bass, woodwinds, percussion
A bit -- we've only just started taking piano.[quote]
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Old 09-21-2007, 11:33 AM
 
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I think I get where UUMom is coming from wrt an anti-intellectual tone in some of these threads. I've seen that before, at times. But at the same time, the unschoolers I've known have been some of the most eccentric intellectual people. I think the issue is the list of expectations tied to chronological age, not the subjects within the list.

Thank you for understanding.

An arbitrary list that is forced on a kid makes no sense, not that nothing on the list is interesting or worth knowing...

I have seen a sort of anti-intellectualism lots on line. (I want my kids to be happy! Not running around spouting useless facts! etc) I see it less IRL. I agree that many hsers are eccentric intellectual peeps.
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Old 09-21-2007, 11:38 AM
 
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[QUOTE=Meg Murry.;9236398]Yeah, we're working our way through Singapore 4a Math right now, which involves addition of fractions.

Check. She loves anything having to do with language, though.
Not really -- she knows the very basic outlines of the above, but we haven't really gotten into major detail about those things.
Yes. We do a lot of reading around here, though and basically don't watch television (especially not television for children), so just through talking about stories and novels and such, she's picked up the terms.

Definitely -- when we started doing multiplication about two years ago, this was one of the first things we did. The Schoolhouse Rock songs are wonderful for teaching these concepts.
Yes. Approximately three years ago when we were doing Saxon 1a, which I really, REALLY do not recommend, it was an early skill.

Yes -- when we switched from Saxon to Miquon Math, Miquon's use of the Cuisenaire rods really clarified this concept and made it accessible.
Of the three, she knows most about Susan B. Anthony because she's read a few childrens' biographies about her.

Yes -- We use Story of the World for history and the volume we're on now (Volume 2) goes into the European conquest of the Americas and the civilizations already there.
Mostly through reading American Girls and other books set in that period.

Yes-- Story of the World is pretty good about giving overviews.
We just did continents! There are a ton of outline or blackline maps available online to teach the continents and countries. We didn't get horrendously specific with the 37 countries of Europe, but I did want her to know where England, France, Spain, Germany, Greece, Turkey, and Italy were at the very least.
Well, I don't know if she can tell me the genus and species of an animal, but she can tell me if it's a reptile, a mammal, an insect, a fish, and so on.
Probably not.
A bit -- we've only just started taking piano.

*****
And I am guessing there is a lot of joy involved with being able to think and talk about some of that.

So all I am saying is that 'knowing' and being miserable aren't the same. I am also betting she loves to play, but she also likes to look at maps...I don't know why we have to separate the heart from the intellect so often ...
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Old 09-21-2007, 11:44 AM
 
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I think you're just trying to be difficult UU mom.

My six year old doesn't know any of that. He FARTS rainbows and butterflies.

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Old 09-21-2007, 11:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by UUMom View Post
'Factoids', 'useless information', 'pushing a child', 'I have a college degree and I don't know what rocks are lol!" etc etc etc. That tone is quite clear, if you've read through the thread. There is very little room for those of us with children who *want* at least some of this information-- few of us even admit it. And even when we do try to discuss this, it's very often dismissed or called 'pushing' .
I'm the one who used the word factoids, didn't know the 3 types of rocks, and have a college degree. :

My kids are deeply interested in all sorts of accademics pursuits, but geology isn't interesting to anyone in my family right now. The point I was making wasn't that children shouldn't be exposed to all manner of interesting and cool things, but that when reduced to a list, whatever it is becomes nothing but factoids.

For example, right now my kids are interested in men who've tried to take over Europe and with Oceanography. Yet, a list that said that all kids their ages should know the basic life story of Charlemange, Genghis Khan, etc., and should be up on all recent ocean discoveries, know the percentage of the ocean that hasn't yet been studied, and so on would seem really silly to me, and like nothing but a list of factoids, even though that is exactly what my kids are studying right now.

The reason to learn about anything is because it is wonderful to learn, not because it is someone else's list of "things you ought to know." The difference between a "factoid" and "really cool information" is the WHY someone is learning it and HOW they feel about it, not the information itself.


Quote:
You really don't see unschoolers or relaxed schoolers very often sharing certain information like this-- of their children wanting 'intellectual' information. It's almost always about running with the butterflies and such.
I think that is because the more comfortable someone is with what their children are doing and learning, the less likely they are to need to talk about it with others because they don't need the outside approval. It tends to be mothers of younger children or mothers who are new to homeschooling who need the reassurance who are more interested in these kinds of conversations. (the OP is a good example.)

I think that the reason that long time unschoolers and relaxed homeschoolers don't share more about what their kids are doing is because they see those conversations as adding to the already existing stress to moms who they would like to support.

Quote:
If people were not so dealthy afraid to share more than the tent- making, cookie baking, and the rock-skipping aspects of hsing, we'd not be having this disucssion.
: I have no idea where you got this. There is a huge difference between saying that "making sure that a child knows all things on someone else's list is kinda silly" and "children should only chase butterflies and bake cookies."

You are assuming that because a child isn't currently interested in something on someone's list, that they aren't interseted in anything accademic. That's just not true.

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Originally Posted by UUMom View Post
So all I am saying is that what seems to be worthless information to some children or adults is another child's (or adults') nirvana. Is all I am saying. SOmetimes these threads seem anti-intellectual.
...
My clever kids push my ass all the freaking time. They aren't clever because they know things...it's the relentless push to know things...things other people think are silly and worthless. So yeah, Geeks R Us.

I'm not sure what to say. I really doubt that anything that your kids are interested in would be considered "silly and worthless" by anyone on this board. My Dh and I are both nerds, and our kids' favorite place to go is the library. We watch more documentaries as a family than sit coms and our idea of a fun family outing is visiting historic sites. Yet in my post you took something to say that learning accademics for pure pleasure is silly and worthless. My point was the opposite.

The only reason to learn anything is for pure pleasure.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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Old 09-21-2007, 11:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mama in the forest View Post
I think you're just trying to be difficult UU mom.

My six year old doesn't know any of that. He FARTS rainbows and butterflies.


That's might be a good skill to have...there could be a college (gasp!) scholarship involved here...
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Old 09-21-2007, 12:01 PM
 
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there could be a college (gasp!) scholarship involved here...
I know it! :

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Old 09-21-2007, 12:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
I'm the one who used the word factoids, didn't know the 3 types of rocks, and have a college degree. :

My kids are deeply interested in all sorts of accademics pursuits, but geology isn't interesting to anyone in my family right now. The point I was making wasn't that children shouldn't be exposed to all manner of interesting and cool things, but that when reduced to a list, whatever it is becomes nothing but factoids.

For example, right now my kids are interested in men who've tried to take over Europe and with Oceanography. Yet, a list that said that all kids their ages should know the basic life story of Charlemange, Genghis Khan, etc., and should be up on all recent ocean discoveries, know the percentage of the ocean that hasn't yet been studied, and so on would seem really silly to me, and like nothing but a list of factoids, even though that is exactly what my kids are studying right now.

The reason to learn about anything is because it is wonderful to learn, not because it is someone else's list of "things you ought to know." The difference between a "factoid" and "really cool information" is the WHY someone is learning it and HOW they feel about it, not the information itself.




I think that is because the more comfortable someone is with what their children are doing and learning, the less likely they are to need to talk about it with others because they don't need the outside approval. It tends to be mothers of younger children or mothers who are new to homeschooling who need the reassurance who are more interested in these kinds of conversations. (the OP is a good example.)

I think that the reason that long time unschoolers and relaxed homeschoolers don't share more about what their kids are doing is because they see those conversations as adding to the already existing stress to moms who they would like to support.



: I have no idea where you got this. There is a huge difference between saying that "making sure that a child knows all things on someone else's list is kinda silly" and "children should only chase butterflies and bake cookies."

You are assuming that because a child isn't currently interested in something on someone's list, that they aren't interseted in anything accademic. That's just not true.




I'm not sure what to say. I really doubt that anything that your kids are interested in would be considered "silly and worthless" by anyone on this board. My Dh and I are both nerds, and our kids' favorite place to go is the library. We watch more documentaries as a family than sit coms and our idea of a fun family outing is visiting historic sites. Yet in my post you took something to say that learning accademics for pure pleasure is silly and worthless. My point was the opposite.

The only reason to learn anything is for pure pleasure.

Rather than anything and everything on some weird list be sent to the gallows right off-- "That's crazy! That's useless! No kid needs to know that! What insane person thought a 6 yr old should know that!? A 6 year old should be playing" would it be more helpful to reassure that it's just a list-- one persons (or one groups) thoughts? And go from there. There was some of that discussion, I grant you.

When a topic like this is introduced, it's often a rush to judgment that there could be nothing of value..that none of it is useful or interesting for some kids. I don' think you or anyone would acutally think my child's intellectual pursuits are silly. (Although some might not trust the parent doesn't have an agenda. )
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