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#31 of 51 Old 12-20-2007, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I think regardless of what kind of school he is intending to start, it speaks volumes for homeschoolers in a way that makes it seem acceptable. WE know it's more than acceptable, but so many people all over the world are so amazingly ignorant about homeschooling and see it as an injustice to children etc...I think any positive publicity on this subject has got to be good.

The spanking issue(I was unaware of) doesn't sit well at all obviously, and I agree, it should not be swept aside just because he homeschools. However, when one of our relatives is sitting there watching or reading that interview, maybe next time we see them, instead of asking us if the children are going to grow up to become weird, they would have a slightly more intelligent question or comment for us.

If we see this for what it actually is ie; good publicity, then surely that is a positive?


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#32 of 51 Old 12-21-2007, 12:37 PM
 
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then it's technically homeschooling but misses out on the spirit/intent of homeschooling which is the parents being responsible for helping their children learn??
That's Your opinion on the "spirit of homeschooling."
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#33 of 51 Old 12-21-2007, 12:44 PM
 
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I think people are willing to overlook this because he is a celebrity. If he were the author of a parenting book he would be heavily criticized here for his pro spanking sentiments, regardless of his pro homeschooling attitude.
So you just think that the people who disagree with you on this, are petty?

You know, I've read a lot of things I don't like.

Those "How to talk" and books, I believe are some that aren't exactly anti-spanking. Iirc, they talk about how it's so hard to not spank. I read that and wonder wtf. But that doesn't mean everything they have to say is bunk. It means I disagree with what they say about spanking.

I won't just disregard people who don't agree with every single thing I think.
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#34 of 51 Old 12-21-2007, 02:47 PM
 
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The impression I get from the video clip is that they wanted certain things included in the education of their kids, so they decided to homeschool to accomplish that. I heard somewhere - maybe it was when he was being interviewed on a TV show - what he thinks is important in the way of education, and it was HUGE, but I can't recall the details. Then they became acquainted with eight or so other parents who homeschooled, so they all decided to get together and create a little private school with tutors.

If you think of eight parents, that could make for maybe even double that amount of students. End of homeschooling -> beginning of a nice little private school in which they'll all have a say in what goes on, but not something I would think any of them will really be referring to as homeschooling. With parents working long days for weeks at a time away home on location and such, they probably feel that fits their needs even better than homeschooling. Makes sense.

Funny - that's what I'd envisioned before I suddenly realized we could homeschool instead and be free to travel or do whatever we pleased, and without the responsibility to other people.

I was at a homeschool information meeting some years back when one of the other parents who was also invited to do a brief talk turned out to be someone who had put together a "co-op" that was like that - because she and the other parents really believed in school and organized parent-directed studies. She even said at one point, "Okay - it's like a little school." I was beside myself sitting next to her and having to hold my tongue. In fact, come to think of it , I didn't hold my tongue very well - and I'm sure I was making faces and squirming while she was talking, because she was strongly advising people that that they, too, should do that. I remember feeling slightly self-conscious about being rude, since I was just an invited guest too. Funny thing is that I'm not even particularly anti-school - until it comes to promoting it as a better alternative when people have the option of actually homeschooling (and unschooling) in an area where there's lots of do and lots of other homeschoolers to do things with. My son was taking college classes at the time and really thriving after his years of unschooling - so to hear someone tell people who were looking into homeschooling that they should set up little schools was crazy-making. But I think that's different from when little homemade private schools really are a great solution for people with special circumstances.

Yes, CA law does have a "private school" option, by the way, that a lot of people use for homeschooling, but it seems to me that this is a private school in the more traditional use of the word. - Lillian
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#35 of 51 Old 12-21-2007, 03:12 PM
 
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Those "How to talk" and books...
Are you referring to the "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen" book??? I haven't read it, but I sure hope it isn't in that category, because it's widely recommended... - Lillian
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#36 of 51 Old 12-21-2007, 05:43 PM
 
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I remember John Travolta saying that they homeschooled their kids, and about the same time reading an article where his wife said that they were part of a school that was recently formed. Maybe it is a Scientology kind of thing.

I don't know ... I think that we homeschoolers are just plain trendy and everyone wants to be like us. ;-)
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#37 of 51 Old 12-21-2007, 06:28 PM
 
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I remember John Travolta saying that they homeschooled their kids, and about the same time reading an article where his wife said that they were part of a school that was recently formed.
I remember hearing him say that they had fixed up a whole schoolroom out behind their house. This from the guy who has an airplane hangar on the property - so I can just imagine the scale of the classroom. I have a feeling it's not that uncommon for people to start out thinking they're going to need to homeschool in order to provide the kind of education they want for their kids, and then quickly discovering that there are actually some like-minded people around who have the same set of educational goals - so, golly whiz, they can all get together and do a cool little school together and all pitch in with various talents and money and tutors and stuff. If you're living a pretty fast paced life in the mainstream world, you're not quite as likely to wander into the same kind of thinking many of us have about a less school-like way of facilitating more individualized learning - especially in a way that gives children more power over what and how they're going to learn as they go along. When I started homeschooling, I was merely intending to provide a very nice, holistically oriented school-at-home sort of thing - it was only through experience that I discovered a radically different way of thinking about it, but that was because of having the time and quiet to be able to notice what was really going on with our son. If I had been a more hard charging sort of person who was used to directing things and getting things done in a big way and in a tightly organized fashion, I might have missed a whole lot of the signs that drew us into a definite preference for homeschooling rather than ever being willing to be part of anything school-like. Lillian
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#38 of 51 Old 12-21-2007, 07:14 PM
 
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...I would agree if we were talking about two totally different issues...
We are.
Spanking = discipline issue. Homeschooling = education issue. Totally separate. You can go ahead and tell me how spanking is supposed to be a discipline issue that teaches, and therefore it's an education issue, but that's just stretching it. So he doesn't discipline like you do; that doesn't mean all the other things he does should be met with (as your words say) "a very skeptical eye". I think it's commendable that he speaks so much about the good things he's doing (like 'homeschooling') and that his celebrity brings it to so many people's attention.



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...he has used a public platform to assert opinions on serious parenting issues....
I disagree with this statement too. He never said anything like "you should spank your kids"....THAT would be asserting his opinions. That song was written for and to his son. The words in question are specifically "..but I will test that butt when you cut outta line..." The rest of the song is full of great lessons he's teaching his son (/kids) and if anything, there's alot to learn from it as a whole.


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...I completely disagree that the spanking issue should be swept aside just because he promotes alternative education....
Never once did I (or anyone) say that the spanking issue should be swept aside; and frankly I don't appreciate you putting words into my mouth to try and promote your point. That being said, YOU seem to want to sweep aside his promoting of alternative education just because he spanks.

My point was not that spanking is a good thing, nor that we should ignore it because he's a celebrity; but rather that all the other good things he does for his kids and wife; all the other things he demonstrates publicly -- THOSE need to be commended. He made one lousy mistake in public. Overall, he's a pretty damn good role model for alot of people -- parents and children alike.

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#39 of 51 Old 12-21-2007, 08:31 PM
 
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Who cares if a celebrity homeschools? Maybe I'm wierd but I don't really care if HSing gets increased press or has a celebrity face attached to it. It isn't going to change one thing in my life personally.
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#40 of 51 Old 12-21-2007, 09:04 PM
 
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That's Your opinion on the "spirit of homeschooling."
I would have to say that's the opinion of the majority of homeschooling parents...take a group of 15odd children, put them in a room and pay someone to teach them? Nope doesn't much resemble any variety of homeschool I've ever heard of... It sounds exactly like...

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If you think of eight parents, that could make for maybe even double that amount of students. End of homeschooling -> beginning of a nice little private school in which they'll all have a say in what goes on, but not something I would think any of them will really be referring to as homeschooling. With parents working long days for weeks at a time away home on location and such, they probably feel that fits their needs even better than homeschooling. Makes sense.
*that* I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, but I do think it changes from homeschooling to something else at that point. Obviously I do know that parents that hs create & use co-ops and outside classes & tutoring services.. but they usually supplement the homeschooling, not dominate it completely.

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#41 of 51 Old 12-21-2007, 09:19 PM
 
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Who cares if a celebrity homeschools? Maybe I'm wierd but I don't really care if HSing gets increased press or has a celebrity face attached to it. It isn't going to change one thing in my life personally.
the point is that nowadays it's all about what would that celebrity do?our society is acting on what they see the famous doing. i belong to another board and someone actually said that Will Smith was her inspiration for wanting to homeschool. i'm happy to see it! i don't care what finally made someone stand up and take notice it's just that they are tha is the thing.

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#42 of 51 Old 12-21-2007, 10:47 PM
 
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*that* I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, but I do think it changes from homeschooling to something else at that point. Obviously I do know that parents that hs create & use co-ops and outside classes & tutoring services.. but they usually supplement the homeschooling, not dominate it completely.
Yes, that's actually the point I was making - they started out homeschooling but decided a little school made more sense for them. I don't think they had any special commitment to homeschooling in the first place - they simply wanted to make sure their kids grew up with a certain kind of education. Lillian
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#43 of 51 Old 12-21-2007, 10:55 PM
 
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the point is that nowadays it's all about what would that celebrity do?our society is acting on what they see the famous doing. i belong to another board and someone actually said that Will Smith was her inspiration for wanting to homeschool. i'm happy to see it! i don't care what finally made someone stand up and take notice it's just that they are tha is the thing.
And they can sit there on a national TV show and be asked respectful questions that they can answer at their leisure in a friendly conversation without some "expert" being called in to "balance" out the issue with some nonsense debating their choice. They're not just some mom sitting in the audience and having a few moments to respond to someone who's explaining why homeschooling is a poor choice. That's the only reason I'd care - although, quite frankly, the kind of setup these folks tend to have seems to be a miniature version of a fabulous private school, so it's really not the same. Sounds really great for their needs, but just not the same as what a lot of us happen to value. Whatever - it doesn't really make a lot of difference one way or another, but it may inspire a few people like it did for a lot of people when they saw John Holt on Donahue. - Lillian
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#44 of 51 Old 12-21-2007, 11:26 PM
 
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Who cares if a celebrity homeschools? Maybe I'm wierd but I don't really care if HSing gets increased press or has a celebrity face attached to it. It isn't going to change one thing in my life personally.
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#45 of 51 Old 12-22-2007, 07:40 AM
 
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I would have to say that's the opinion of the majority of homeschooling parents...take a group of 15odd children, put them in a room and pay someone to teach them? Nope doesn't much resemble any variety of homeschool I've ever heard of... It sounds exactly like...
My quote was in reference to a larger quote:
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I know it's a bit of a bone of contention in hs circles.. but to me if you are hiring a 'qualified' teacher to do all the 'teaching' for you, then it's technically homeschooling but misses out on the spirit/intent of homeschooling which is the parents being responsible for helping their children learn??
which I believed referred to the fact that the smiths previously used tutors.

And all the same, I don't think it's anyone's place to decide what is the true spirit/intent of homeschooling.

What any one person might say is the true intent or spirit of homeschooling, may in fact go exactly against what all of the homeschoolers in a different nation do. So one's home country is a deciding factor in what the true spirit and intent of homeschooling for Others is? Not if you ask me.

I might say that the true intent of homeschooling is so that parents can hand-pick which topics their children cover, and when, regardless of who is presenting the material (and that the parents get to hand-pick who does present it).

But that would be an illegal form of homeschooling in many countries where homeschooling families must strictly follow the national curriculum, including covering the same topics at the same time.

So the homeschooling families in those countries aren't really homeschooling, if I we go by my own made-up above definition of the true spirit/intent of homeschooling.

Point being, who are we to say what that it, and who does or does not fit it.
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#46 of 51 Old 12-22-2007, 09:22 AM
 
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#47 of 51 Old 12-22-2007, 09:37 AM
 
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What any one person might say is the true intent or spirit of homeschooling, may in fact go exactly against what all of the homeschoolers in a different nation do. So one's home country is a deciding factor in what the true spirit and intent of homeschooling for Others is? Not if you ask me.

I might say that the true intent of homeschooling is so that parents can hand-pick which topics their children cover, and when, regardless of who is presenting the material (and that the parents get to hand-pick who does present it).

But that would be an illegal form of homeschooling in many countries where homeschooling families must strictly follow the national curriculum, including covering the same topics at the same time.

So the homeschooling families in those countries aren't really homeschooling, if I we go by my own made-up above definition of the true spirit/intent of homeschooling.

Point being, who are we to say what that it, and who does or does not fit it.
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#48 of 51 Old 12-22-2007, 03:06 PM
 
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I disagree with this statement too. He never said anything like "you should spank your kids"....THAT would be asserting his opinions.
He never ordered other parents to run out and homeschool their children --but you seem ready to admit that his public statements on homeschooling may influence parents opinions on the topic.

You can't have it both ways.

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He made one lousy mistake in public.
He never called his pro spanking stance a public mistake.

I think this is an "agree to disagree moment". You will never convince me that someone who sings about spanking a small child should go unchallenged as a homeschooling advocate.

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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#49 of 51 Old 12-22-2007, 06:58 PM
 
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...I think this is an "agree to disagree moment"....
Deal. Let's move on from this thread.

(Honestly, all I can think about right now is Mighty-Mama. Everything else seems petty and redundant. )

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#50 of 51 Old 12-22-2007, 07:26 PM
 
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the point is that nowadays it's all about what would that celebrity do?our society is acting on what they see the famous doing.
All the more reason to reject this type of endorsement IMO.
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#51 of 51 Old 12-22-2007, 07:48 PM
 
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Honestly, all I can think about right now is Mighty-Mama. Everything else seems petty and redundant
(((Hug))) That is very true. I was thinking about her this morning. Thanks for the reminder.

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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