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#481 of 506 Old 02-18-2008, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
Bolding mine.

That's awesome! Are you a believer in time-travel, then, or are you thinking more about how the present, and our perceptions of the future, affect our perceptions of the past?
I have no experience with time-traveling, as far as I know. My perception was your second perception. Like, how our perception of the past is impacted by our future experiences. Dynamic.

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#482 of 506 Old 02-19-2008, 04:09 AM
 
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POPup-I am finding the work of Byron Katie to be extremely helpful in questioning the thoughts and beliefs I have and the reactions they lead to. It was only when I consciously looked at those beliefs and thoughts that I was able to walk the talk more consistently. There are some very enlightening videos on youtube showing Katie working her gentle magic. She is wonderful
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It is a Taoist phrase. It means to act without impact.

http://www.hku.hk/philodep/ch/wuwei.htm
http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/loy3.htm


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Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
I considered the screen name "Wyrd".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyrd
http://www.wyrdwords.vispa.com/heathenry/whatwyrd.html
http://www.blackcatpress.co.uk/Wyrdwords.htm

"Wyrd refers to how past actions continually affect and condition the future, but also how the future affects the past. The concept of Wyrd highlights the interconnected nature of all actions and how they influence each other."



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Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
Bolding mine.

That's awesome! Are you a believer in time-travel, then, or are you thinking more about how the present, and our perceptions of the future, affect our perceptions of the past?
Ah HA! So this is where all the cool, CL, Byron Katie, LoA/Secret, home/un-schooling folks have been hanging out!

I feel like I'm home.

SO subbing this thread.
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#483 of 506 Old 02-19-2008, 09:58 AM
 
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Ah HA! So this is where all the cool, CL, Byron Katie, LoA/Secret, home/un-schooling folks have been hanging out!

I feel like I'm home.

SO subbing this thread.
Glad you're here!

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#484 of 506 Old 02-19-2008, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ah HA! So this is where all the cool, CL, Byron Katie, LoA/Secret, home/un-schooling folks have been hanging out!

I feel like I'm home.

SO subbing this thread.
I saw you post somewhere recently and I wondered how you've been?


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#485 of 506 Old 02-19-2008, 02:19 PM
 
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do you with small children ever struggle with "there is enough" for everyone?

I love this philosophy, however on a daily basis there is some time during my day where I am like "ummmm....now would be a good time to manifest enough!!!"

where do you go in those moments when your infant is screaming while your toddler is tantrum throwing while youe 5 yr old is laughin at it all and dh is time outing and you are spent?
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#486 of 506 Old 02-19-2008, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Most discussions related to Consensual Living are at the CL yahoogroup: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consensual-living/?m=0 We have over 650 families who are participating and exploring living consensually. Here are some recent threads with depth and intensity of discussion.

Is consistency important? What is consistency?: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5017
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5038

I don't want my son exposed to children who watch TV or movies:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5039
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5044

Validation vs. Fixing?: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5025
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5026



Recommended Reading Request: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4984

Child can not get enough of me: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4982

Kids testing boundaries in social situations: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4928

Getting your child ill on purpose (chicken pox):

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4929
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4948



helping dh to understand consensual living:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4914
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1793


Siblings: To share or not to share, that is the question...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4822
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4804
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4891

How to restore trust and remove guilt with a 4 year old:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4775


Manners?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4851

Teens sneaking out, need some perspective:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4780

Wasting water:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4808

Finding it hard to deal with others and 'praise'...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4745



The Whole Point - I Think I Finally Get It!:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4733

Almost 4 y.o. wanting to nurse instead of eat:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4683

Does CL mean your toddler never cries?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4595

Rude seven year old son---THIS IS LOOONG.:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4664



question about judgment:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4593

CPS may visit our home:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4643

Consensual Eyedrops?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4657

Medications:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4600

Help. Sleep issues.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4555

Another question...about NVC:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4476



Toddler who wont move:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4516

Tick Bite:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4374

dentist and CL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4362
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4365
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4092

Won't take a bath?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4166

Changing clothes:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4131

This isn't consensual!! (re: toy mess):
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4115



goals and living in the moment:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4102

non-coercive, but reasonable bedtimes, boundaries, etc?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4014
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4023
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4030
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4035


Come on over and join the discussion!


Pat

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#487 of 506 Old 02-19-2008, 03:56 PM
 
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ok, woah. That's alot of links! I am on my way.



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#488 of 506 Old 02-20-2008, 07:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
Glad you're here!
Thanks! I will have to PM you, or something... I've had some interesting conversations with dh re; home/unschooling... he is a tough nut to crack!

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Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
I saw you post somewhere recently and I wondered how you've been? Pat
Better now!! Pat, I keep forgetting that there's this supportive community of other moms! I have had some startling epiphanies, of late.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transformed View Post
do you with small children ever struggle with "there is enough" for everyone?

I love this philosophy, however on a daily basis there is some time during my day where I am like "ummmm....now would be a good time to manifest enough!!!"

where do you go in those moments when your infant is screaming while your toddler is tantrum throwing while youe 5 yr old is laughin at it all and dh is time outing and you are spent?
I go to the bathroom...! Seriously!

I just struggled with this today and had an overwhelming realization: I am a gentle parent who was an abused child, and that's tough.

I was abused. It's not something I really think about (I will now), or talk about (clearly I should). Physically, emotionally, verbally, sexually. I have very effectively managed to re-parent myself; I feel I am a safe, secure, loving and gentle woman, wife, mom. But the experience is still there, and when I instictively look back for a reference as to what my parenting should look like (in the "Calgon momentss" of a crazy toddler, a ringing phone, a barking dog, etc...), I just see my mom, screaming in my face, locking me outside in the cold saying "I can't stand to look at you for one more minute!", or slapping me, or something... and I feel the seed of that rage in my blood. When I am at a loss, and feel tapped out, I feel how close that abuse is to the surface, and I don't know what to do; the things I read and learn sometime waft out of my head and I'm just a ball of nerves. I literally squelch the snap by 1st walking away for a moment to collect myself (I will lock myself in the bathroom and ask dd for space for a minute, sometimes I even set a timer and tell dd to get me when it goes off); and then I get out the crazies by having a snuggly, tickle, wrestle-session... covering dd with kisses and raspberries. I felt much better after that, today!

I'm sure if I could do better... but for today it really helped, to escape for just a minute!

eta: Someone recmmended throwing flags, like in football... Calling out penalties (as a joke) to dh when he's using techniques that are in conflict with more gentle, consensual approaches. Like:
"Penalty! Illegal use of time-outs."

Then change the scene, go outside, they might follow you... fresh air always does us good...
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#489 of 506 Old 02-20-2008, 09:05 PM
 
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Like:
"Penalty! Illegal use of time-outs."

Then change the scene, go outside, they might follow you... fresh air always does us good...
ok now I have to go to the bathroom lol..That was too funny!

I haven't posted much here, but I am basically the sole striving member of Consensual living.. My dh is rarely home, and he is much tougher than I am on the kids..he had a rough upbringing and is a "tough nut to crack" as another poster write. He is giving me a little more credit for trying this, but I am exhausted! It is tough when you have not lived consensually and now try to switch with a 4 year old, and a 2 year old (or maybe I am just being whiny And you try to make the switch alone..Anyone have advice on this? I know that we will succeed in this, and be much happier in everyway!
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#490 of 506 Old 02-20-2008, 09:54 PM
 
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yes-I mean, we arent consistant at all with any one style of parenting. Its really hard because one day I feel peaceful and at ease, and the next day I feel like I cant. handle. one. more. minute. And even taking a moment in the bathroom isn't enough to turn me around. My dh is similar. We haven't learned to control our anger some days. I have said some really awful things to my kids and my dh. We both come from a "traditional" abuse style home. Mine was unstructured and erratic. Dh's mom chased him around with a belt several times, which he would laugh at, which made her more mad....and she still tells me what a bad boy he was. (Even though she is proud of him now) He is starting to admit that it is abuse....or at least, has stopped saying "My parents spanked me and I am alright." It takes time for people to admit they were abused. I am healing-I hope that one day I can say "Healed" although it seems to me that its never a "done deal" when you talk about healing from abuse.

Ds keeps getting out of bed tonight and we had agreed several days ago to be very strict on him with set consequences, etc. (We want some "us" time again.) and now I am feeling like "aww, just go lie with him." but my other brain says "Oh, he'll keep playing you then!" Because my emotions run so high-I dont know how to guarentee him that mommy will always lay there and rub his back. Thats my goal. But I am seriously not able to make myself do it every single night.
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#491 of 506 Old 02-20-2008, 10:34 PM
 
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You know what I have found the biggest help to be? To simply be easy on yourself; shower yourself with love. When you feel exhausted (olive FE helps!) give yourself a hug.

Changing your family's lifestyle to living consensually is REVOLUTIONARY! Many of us have never seen it modeled. It makes sense that it is a learning process that waxes and wanes.

Also, every family is different and only your family can find your flow. We have found so many places in our journey where we stopped to rest for awhile. We didn't have everything figured out but we found a place where everyone is happy and it felt good to stop and revel there. Then after a little while you notice an area that might be improved upon and you lovingly incorporate new ideas and new practices because you are ready to move and grow.

My favorite practice right know is borrowed from the daily groove. When I catch myself getting frustrated b/c ds1 wants to nurse but I want to check my email I simp;y change the BUT to an AND. It sounds so simple but it changes my whole thought process and usually there is a way to meet both out needs and then I feel like Supermama! I try to focus on those moments and give myself love for all the other "moments"
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#492 of 506 Old 02-20-2008, 10:44 PM
 
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Love it, flowers! Thank you for that post.

Oh, and I followed the link in your sig--my fam is from your town! The Gaunts--think there's a park named for them there.
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#493 of 506 Old 02-20-2008, 10:51 PM
 
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olive fe?

I am searching for a Bach book (but they dont carry it at my hfs-so I have to remember to look online for it.) I am trying to remember to use rescue remedy, and drink water.

Also positive talk. Lots of it.

I feel so energetic when I follow my heart.

So thats what I am trying to do more of. It is getting me there.

Thanks for your post!!!!
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#494 of 506 Old 02-20-2008, 10:58 PM
 
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Love it, flowers! Thank you for that post.

Oh, and I followed the link in your sig--my fam is from your town! The Gaunts--think there's a park named for them there.
So funny! Did you grow up there? We just relocated to NY.

Hi Transformed! Lovely bumping into you here!
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#495 of 506 Old 02-20-2008, 11:10 PM
 
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No, I grew up in W. Mass. My mom grew up there (in the Tenney guest house?? Is that right? Little stone house next to a big school/post office? In front of where the big main house used to be?) and my gran lived there. My great grandfather owned a textile mill there--which is where the park named for him is. I was actually just up there last year. It was lovely to see how many of the homes were being restored. Hope you're liking NY!
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#496 of 506 Old 02-20-2008, 11:19 PM
 
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Wow that's crazy. I totally know exactly everything your talking about. Small world

Yes, we love it here.
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#497 of 506 Old 02-21-2008, 01:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Heading to bed. Quick note. See the thread "Parenting and Rage". I've posted a bunch there. Read my old posts #910-915. Something in there could help. My first thought is magnesium supplements have helped with that explosive edge. Also, essential fatty acids help with hormone balance. Counseling helped me too. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...394579&page=19

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#498 of 506 Old 02-24-2008, 12:33 AM
 
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Hi CL Mamas! I posted this thread in Parents as Partners... and what I really need is some CL advice:
Partners in Parenting: How Did/Do You Get on The Same Page?

Dh and I have a huge divide right now in how we approach parenting and I feel like I'm doing this alone, much of the time...

Will you please see my thread (warning: it's sorta long...) and let me know what you think?
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#499 of 506 Old 02-24-2008, 01:49 AM
 
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I keep forgetting about checking this thread out. I'll have to come back tomorrow when I'm more awake.

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#500 of 506 Old 06-05-2008, 11:36 AM
 
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Okay, so here is a question I've been pondering.

I've always felt right about exclusively breastfeeding my babies until they showed interest in solids (each did at around 6 1/2 months), and then offering bites of food along with sips of liquids from a cup (or sometimes water in a water-bottle).

I never felt right about offering bottles -- not early on, and not after introducing solids and other liquids besides my milk, either. That's because I'd heard that it can be detrimental to their dental development, especially if the babe isn't ready to wean from the bottle in infancy. Whereas the breast if totally good for children at any age. I'd also heard that it could cause reduction in mother's milk supply, especially if offered early on, and could cause early weaning, whether offered in infancy or toddlerhood.

I've been assuming that this (exclusive breastfeeding at first, and later adding liquids in a cup when baby wants to start eating) is what any person would want for him or herself, once that person was able to fully understand all the information surrounding the issue.

But I keep reading, in various CL/TCS/RU discussions, that the parent shouldn't do things now, based on assumptions about what the child will "wish" the parent had done, at whatever point that the child reaches the age of comprehension. Of course, none of these discussions have centered around breastfeeding: I hear it most often around the toothbrushing issue -- and of course, the CL people are saying you shouldn't force anything on a child based on "how they'll feel about it years down the line."

Withholding the chance for a baby or toddler to try out a bottle isn't overtly coercive -- but it could be construed as withholding of information, similar to the accusations one TCS-person leveled at folks who say, "We don't have TV, so my toddler doesn't ask to watch it." The TCS-person felt that parents should make some effort to introduce children to experiences that they're likely to enjoy.

And I've heard that some newborns who are offered a combination of breast and bottle-feedings in the early weeks, will sometimes develop a preference for the bottle, because it takes less effort to get milk from a bottle than from a breast. Again, I can't imagine that any fully comprehending person would wish that his/her mother had given some bottles if she didn't need to -- but obviously, some babies prefer the easier suckling experience.

And newly mobile babies often prefer carrying their milk around with them, rather than having to go to Mama. Of course, that problem can be solved (I think) by Mama always being near and available.

It's a moot point for me unless we have another baby -- and I must say that even if it's not CL or RU to avoid offering bottles, if I had another baby, I'd still continue with my current way of doing things. But is it patronizing, to make this choice for a baby or child, rather than providing him with both experiences and leaving it up to him?

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#501 of 506 Old 06-05-2008, 12:40 PM
 
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mamma mama,

This is how I wrap my head around things like this:


Why do you want to give your dc a bottle?
Why do you not want to give your dc a bottle?

Which of your answers feels better? Which one flows better with your family? Which one is more instinctive? Which answer relies more on others beliefs or on your gut feelings? What are your gut feelings? Why are those your gut feelings? What are your beliefs based on?

For us a bottle doesn't naturally occur. I have never had to leave either of my children at such a young age where a bottle would be necessary. When they get to be an older infant and I have left them with dh or someone close to me for a few hours I nurse him up before and then nurse immediately when we return. I am not anti-bottle, it just never came up for us.

For me to think whether I am denying him something he might enjoy feels very upstream to me. To me its almost overthinking the situation adn the correlation. For me to go out of the way to buy bottles bring them home, wash them, fill them etc. seems like a lot of extra work when it wasn't something that was happening regularly.

Now let's say I had an opportunity to work part time and had a childcare situation I was very comfortable with and felt that this was the best opportunity for my whole family. I am gone for about 4 hours and my care giver tells me that at the end of the stay my child is very fussy, and seems to want to suck and the sippy cup isn't fulfilling the comfort he desires. Then I might consider that a bottle might do the trick. I think in a situation like that you could enter the "why I am withholding the bottle" questions.

So, if you are withholding the bottle b/c of other people's opinions, but you think a bottle might fit perfectly in your family dynamics then I might rethink your stance. But if you are going to introduce just on the basis of feeling like you are withholding something (that isn't a need, yk) I don't know if that resonates with me.

That to me is like saying.....I know my child would love these giant candy aisle but he happened to walk right by without noticing it. Why would I introduce it? He doesn't need candy. It's not nutritious. I don't with hold candy when he finds a source (neighbor, party, grandparents etc.) but I'm notgoing to go out of my way to bring it to him.

just my 2 cents.
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#502 of 506 Old 06-05-2008, 02:13 PM
 
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its funny you brought this up today. My 5 month old grabbed my 2 yr olds sippy this morning during her diaper change and sucked on it, was suprised at what she got )water and apple juice) threw it down, and grabbed it back up to try it again.

(My dh was changing the diaper, I would have freaked out. LOL)

He chuckeled at the situation and I said "OMG dont give her the sippy, she'll wean and that wont be good!"

So I guess I have some thinking to do about this too! LOL.

I also am feeling like trying some food on her soon. She is only 5m and I was going to get as close to a year as possible but I just have alot on my plate with the 2 other kids and this feels right to me.
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#503 of 506 Old 06-06-2008, 12:26 AM
 
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Hi, I'm new to this tribe. I've read a small amount of the website. I want to know if the basic idea behind consensual living is, "try to find a solution that works for everyone?" Because that has ALWAYS been my goal! Not that I always succeed. My own baggage and miscommunication often gets in the way. I'm looking forward to reading more of this tribe, and more about consesual living. Thanks for listening!
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#504 of 506 Old 06-06-2008, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
I want to know if the basic idea behind consensual living is, "try to find a solution that works for everyone?"
I have found that *trusting* that there is a solution which works for everyone, helps me to being open to a myriad of possibilities.

"Trying" to find a solution feels like it is "my job" to solve it. And when I trust and am open to all possibilities, without an expectation of one solution, or me finding it, the solutions unfold more effortlessly. I find that "trying" gets in the way of trusting. It is a nuance that I've discerned in my process. Although, trusting isn't my learned nature.

Our son has been the most effective at trusting that there is a way for him to get what he wants. He is confident that he WILL. And my resistance can create an obstacle to being open to hearing his creative alternatives. And if I feel that *I* need to "solve" the problem, I get caught up in the emotions of feeling that *I* have. to. find. the. solution. That emotional space feels defensive and pressured. Do you sense the difference?

Of course, moving from trying to trusting is a journey. I find that when I watch our son's total belief that he can get what he wants, I learn how to trust that I can get what I want, rather than trying to get what I want.


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#505 of 506 Old 06-06-2008, 11:43 AM
 
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Yes, maybe I am over-thinking the bottle thing. It certainly felt right for me to exclusively breastfeed -- and I believe it will still feel right if we have another.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#506 of 506 Old 07-10-2008, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ladies, there is a new Consensual Living tribe: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=927058


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