Sunday or Sunday/Monday drive-share to Kookoolan Farms for milk? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 24 Old 09-02-2007, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Last week we went out to tour Kookoolan farms and for the first time in my life I tried raw milk. I am never going back to grocery store milk again!! My husband was especially impressed with how clean Kookoolan farms is and how well they test everything. Before visiting he was nervous about raw milk but now he feels perfectly safe about it.

But yamhill is a loooong drive! There is at least one other drive-share going on but the one I know of is doing it on Friday, and my husband works Fridays and I don't drive so we can't do that. And there's one on Saturdays but she didn't say where that large order is coming from.

I asked Chrissie and she said she could probably supply about 4 gallons of milk on Sundays, of which I think I'd probably want 1 1/2 gallon of goat and one 1/2 gallon of cow.

Or maybe if anyone else is already in a weekday drive-share they might want to switch to Sunday and maybe Chrissie could keep up with production a little better that way?

Another alternative could be if we wanted to do something a little flexible where WE drive there on Sundays but if other people wanted to do Mondays that might work too.

Or does anyone else have any other ideas how we can get their amazing milk at least once a week without having to drive there every week, or take off a day of work? hehe.
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#2 of 24 Old 09-02-2007, 09:58 PM
 
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I'm not sure how we would work things out, but my husband goes to Kookoolan every single Sunday (he's in fact there right now! ). He picks up milks, chickens, organ meats, whatever the heck we need that week. It's THE only place we buy milk or meat products from. I'm sure he would be happy to pick up a few things for you guys. But I'm not sure where you live or how the details would work out? We live on the Beaverton/Hillsboro border, near Baseline & Cornelious Pass.

Kookoolan is the awesomest.

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#3 of 24 Old 09-03-2007, 03:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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That could be perfect! If it would work for you, we could do every other week, and we'd be glad to just pick stuff up from your house if that would work best for you on your drive-weeks and drop stuff off there on our drive-weeks since it's pretty much on our way back anyway (and still a lot better drive than all the way out to Kookoolan!) or we could find another place to meet if you want.

I think at least for now we're just getting 1/2 gallon of goat milk and 1/2 gallon of cow milk, or I may increase it to a whole gallon of one or the other (especially if I start making keifer...first time I've tried real keifer and I have to say, it tastes *horrible*...I guess I shouldn't have been surprised a fermented food tastes....fermented lol. But my belly sure seems to like it and I know how healthy it is so I may try to keep it up).

And on our drive-weeks you could figure out what you wanted us to pick up and possibly call or email Kookoolan for the exact amount. Or I guess it could be possible to approximate and then us give you change or you pay us back more when we get back depending if it was over or under. I think they prefer to be paid with one check just from whomever is picking stuff up.

Did all that make sense? Maybe if anyone else is interested we could add in more people. I figure going every other week or less will give us lots more time, plus save lots of money on gas and car maintenance and stuff.
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#4 of 24 Old 09-03-2007, 11:16 PM
 
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DH said he'd be happy to pick stuff up. He works in Gaston every Sunday & will continue to do so throughout the winter. But, he thought of something I never would have even questioned. He asked me to look into whether buying raw milk for other people is actually legal in OR. I did some searching online but couldn't find a clear answer so I emailed Kookoolan this morning & asked if they could tell me the answer. SO, I'm not ignoring the thread (or the PM ). Just awaiting official word re legalities.

It's so dumb that raw milk isn't perfectly legal in every way in every state. I read about some people being arrested in other states just for transporting raw milks over state lines or to distribute amongst other people. So ANYway, we'll see what we learn...

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#5 of 24 Old 09-15-2007, 04:24 PM
 
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Geez, I'm sorry that I totally forgot about posting to this thread again like the massive space brain I am.
I did email Kookoolan & research this the best I could & my DH, cautious as he is, thinks it's too risky. Technically what the law says is that farmers may only sell raw milk to the consumer only, on their farm property. Chrissie (at Kookoolan) says that they just follow a "don't ask don't tell" policy, which means that THEY won't get in trouble because they wouldn't know whether they were selling directly to the consumer or not. But that doesn't cover *our* butts, YKWIM? There was a situation that happened in WA not too long ago where someone was picking up raw milk for several other people & delivering it. Then a bunch of those people came down with E Coli & so everyone blamed the farm & the farm got in trouble. But the farmers said there's no way the E Coli came from them & THEY blamed it on the person making the delivery, claiming that that person must have mishandled the milk. Then THAT person got in trouble.

SO, as silly & teeny tiny low risk as it seems, my ever-cautious DH says he's sorry but it's not worth the risk to him. Since it's "technically illegal" and all.

And I'M sorry for speaking up before talking to him or realizing that there could be risk involved! Kookoolan is SO great though, I do hope everyone interested can find a way to get goodies from them. They do sell at the McMinville & Hillsdale farmers markets, but they can only sell their meats & eggs & such products since the law says milk must be sold on their property. But still, if you're a meat eater, their meat is the most well raised & killed there is out there & I recommend it wholeheartedly.

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#6 of 24 Old 09-15-2007, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah that makes a lot of sense now that you explain it all, and we are also extremely cautious. My husband said "That's a great point! I don't want that risk either, we'll get our own!"

I wish so much that 1. the laws were different here or 2. there was a farm as awesome and safe as kookoolan closer to us (or some magic way to tesseract there or something hehe) or 3. we would hurry up and get our own house with room for a couple of goats (which will probably be a LOT more work than I think it will be!).

We're headed out there today cause we ran out of milk early, and from now on we're on the regular Sunday list (who knows, maybe we'll run into you there!) Once I tasted raw milk and read all about how horrible pasteurization is, there's no way I'm going back to grocery store milk.

What do you think about their meat compared to say, New Seasons? $3.99 a pound is sooo expensive it's hard for us to make the switch, but when I was reading and talking to the guys at New Seasons, their chickens aren't really free-range. They say they have "access to the outdoors" but that's not really the same thing. Also they are all vegetarian fed and Chrissie made the point that chickens aren't naturally entirely vegetarian which seems logical to me. We're stepping up our nutrition one step at a time to get used to the sticker shock hehe. So for now we've been going with New Seasons but I'm thinking especially with more information we may end up getting chicken from Kookoolan too.
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#7 of 24 Old 09-15-2007, 10:18 PM
 
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Don't know if this will be helpful, but there's a co-op on the West side to drive to the Kookoolan farm that's pretty sizable. I used to get my milk that way, and paid them by check through the mail. I don't think there were any legal issues. People were just picking up and not buying milk for others. As far as I know, it's still running, with the drop off location being somewhere in the Canyon Road/West Slope area. I could probably dig up an email address if anyone wants to check it out.

Their chicken is overpriced, IMO. I think they're charging whatever the market will bear. Can't really blame them for that, but I can't afford it on a regular basis, either. Same with their eggs. I'd like to support small local farms, but I have to live on a budget. I bought a lot more local organic and free range meat and eggs when I lived in NYC, and it was expensive, but nothing like $5 a dozen for eggs, or $3.75/lb for whole chicken. Anyway, I wish I could keep some chickies myself for eggs, but AFAICT it's not legal in Beaverton.
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#8 of 24 Old 09-15-2007, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I *think* chicken was actually $3.99 a pound for whole chickens now, and $3.50 for livers and hearts. I don't have any idea how to cook hearts. Is there any other place to get livers? Or to get real free range chicken that's treated well? Also we know Kookoolan is probably the safest place to buy raw milk...do we know exactly how strict their safety standards are for meat?

We went a different way this time. First time we went via Newberg/219. Then we went River Road/Farmington and through Laurelwood...that way is by far the prettiest I think but so up and down and a little more confusing. Today we went River Road through Hillsboro, out TV highway then 47 straight to Kookoolan. That was pretty cool! Longer miles but seemed a lot more straightforward and quick.

On our way out there we saw a Bison ranch that looked like it could be worth checking out - L-Bar-T I think it was called. Then in a field off to the right (heading there) near a bunch of overgrown christmas tree farms, I saw an elk! Anyone know anything about that? I wonder if he lives there or was just visiting or what. It almost looked not real cause it was in the exact same spot when we were traveling both ways. But why would anyone have a ginormous fake elk out in their field? lol

At first we tried to get in on one of the carpool pickup type things, but the one we found out about is on Fridays and since I don't drive and my husband works weekdays, there's no way we could do anything other than Saturday or Sunday.
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#9 of 24 Old 09-16-2007, 12:37 AM
 
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When I did the Friday one, I know some people picked up on Saturday morning. The pickup was then nearer to me, and they just left coolers on the front porch. The only trouble was when it was my turn to pick up, and I ended up taking a few hours off work on Friday to do it. There were enough people involved so that it didn't happen often.

In my most recent email from them, they said their chickens were $3.75/lb. I'd pay $3.50/lb for livers, because it seems like livers from free range chickens are harder to find, and no way would I want to eat organ meats from conventionally raised chickens. Ick.

Oh, also, in their emails they say they've been going to Hillsdale farmer's market Sundays. I don't know if they're going every Sunday, nor do I know how late in the year the Hillsdale farmer's market stays open, but that's an idea.
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#10 of 24 Old 09-16-2007, 01:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah I know they're at the Hillsdale market which is great for meat but of course they can't bring milk there. Maybe I misread the price sheet, I should have looked closer, maybe it was $3.75, I'll double check next time I'm there.

It would be great if the Friday thing could work for us, but especially after Zjande pointed out the risk I think my husband would rather just make the drive. There's really no way he could ever get off early on a Friday and even if he did, that would not be the way I'd want to spend it hehe.
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#11 of 24 Old 09-16-2007, 01:20 AM
 
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I'm not really sure I understand what the risk is if someone's just picking up milk for someone else. Nobody's handling anything. There were a dozen people involved in the Beaverton carpool, at least. I don't know, it's all academic to me, because I can't afford to buy from them regularly.
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#12 of 24 Old 09-16-2007, 01:36 AM
 
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Yeah that makes a lot of sense now that you explain it all, and we are also extremely cautious. My husband said "That's a great point! I don't want that risk either, we'll get our own!"

I wish so much that 1. the laws were different here or 2. there was a farm as awesome and safe as kookoolan closer to us (or some magic way to tesseract there or something hehe) or 3. we would hurry up and get our own house with room for a couple of goats (which will probably be a LOT more work than I think it will be!).

We're headed out there today cause we ran out of milk early, and from now on we're on the regular Sunday list (who knows, maybe we'll run into you there!) Once I tasted raw milk and read all about how horrible pasteurization is, there's no way I'm going back to grocery store milk.

What do you think about their meat compared to say, New Seasons? $3.99 a pound is sooo expensive it's hard for us to make the switch, but when I was reading and talking to the guys at New Seasons, their chickens aren't really free-range. They say they have "access to the outdoors" but that's not really the same thing. Also they are all vegetarian fed and Chrissie made the point that chickens aren't naturally entirely vegetarian which seems logical to me. We're stepping up our nutrition one step at a time to get used to the sticker shock hehe. So for now we've been going with New Seasons but I'm thinking especially with more information we may end up getting chicken from Kookoolan too.
Thanks for being so understanding! My DH was out there today, too! And yes, I dream of having my own goats and/or cows (& I WILL someday, goshdarnit! lol) but I also think it will be more work than I can imagine. AND "yes me too" about never buying pasteurized milk! Although I hadn't bought any milk until Kookoolan's until just a couple months ago, since sometime in the early 90s.

As for your other questions, I can't be extremely helpful because we only started consuming meat products last month, after 14 yrs of vegetarianism! So I am not an expert on meat yet. The thing for me is, I absolutely do not want to consume a meat product that came from an animal that was mistreated or fed a crappy unnatural diet. And I also know that labeling laws SUCK & you never can be sure that the labels on a meat product are telling the truth -- without visiting the farm. I researched the meats at New Seasons just a little bit so far. You can go to their website & see the brands of meats they carry & look up those farms online. I felt like that was a good start for me, I enjoyed reading farmer's stories & seeing their pictures, but I STILL had questions & wasn't sure I could trust them just because they had a cool website.

I wouldn't ever buy eggs or poultry that are labeled "vegetarian" because with that you can only assume the birds were never allowed outside. If they had been, they would not be vegetarian! Our chickens chow on bugs & slugs all day long. They get FAR more excited when I offer them a ginormous banana slug than some dumb ol' chicken food from a bag. Chickens are not vegetarian. And any meat or eggs that come from them won't be as healthy as those raised with a natural diet.

Also, another thing I like to see are farmers slaughtering their own animals. Can you imagine the terror animals feel otherwise, being shoved onto a big scary truck & leaving the only place they've ever known to be brought to a slaughterhouse way down the freeway full of unknown smells & animal blood & fear? ~Shudder~ *Ideally* animals should be slaughtered at home (as Kookoolan does it), although I know it's not always possible.

And "grain fed beef"? No way. Totally unnatural.

So, I'm pretty much rambling now. My real point is that I would pay $10 a pound for meats if that was the only way I could get meats & organs that were guaranteed to have come from totally humanely treated animals. I think this area is a perfect example of "you get what you pay for". Kookoolan's eggs are expensive (but only 81cents more per dozen than the "hand gathered, organic, *not* vegetarian eggs at New Seasons) because they hand make their own chicken food without any soy or GMO products in it! That's practically unheard of, & not even something I've been willing to do for my own chickens (who's organic food is still mainly made up of soy & GM corn...). Plus, you are helping pay for the certified meat slaughtering & processing building they have installed right behind their house, specifically so their animals don't have to travel down the freeway in trucks & die in fear.

I haven't yet found another farm nearby that offers meats raised to my high personal standards. : But it's both because we've only been consuming them for such a short time, AND my dh has worked so close to Kookoolan that it was the most convenient. Since I've hung out with & talked with Chrissie & Koroosh so many times, & seen their entire farm, I totally trust them. Koroosh was once even a vegan raw foodist, and he loves his animals (& hates slaughtering them). So, I trust them. But just can't trust the labels on other meats yet, y'know?

So, I totally have more things I want to share but I've already written a freaking novel here. And my stinky baby needs a bath.

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#13 of 24 Old 09-16-2007, 01:41 AM
 
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I'm not really sure I understand what the risk is if someone's just picking up milk for someone else. Nobody's handling anything. There were a dozen people involved in the Beaverton carpool, at least. I don't know, it's all academic to me, because I can't afford to buy from them regularly.
I think the only risk, is that it's technically not lawful. The (silly, dumb &&^$$ law) spells out that only *the consumer* may purchase the milk from the farm (this is the quote: "(2) The milk is sold directly to the consumer at the premises where produced;"). So, even though the risk is probably microscopic, *IF* anything should happen, the person picking up & delivering the milk *could* get in trouble because of this technicality.

ETA: You're right, chickens are not legal to have in Beaverton. We just have them anyway. : : : (sshhhhhh! )

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#14 of 24 Old 09-16-2007, 02:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Zjande that's really interesting that you just now started eating meat after 14 years of being vegetarian!! I am in the *exact* same position and it's scary and sad for me to feel I have to eat meat, but I've just gotten to the point especially with my nutrition research that I don't feel being vegetarian is responsible for my body and especially not since I'm trying to get pregnant. I've been vegetarian for 18 years! How did the transition go for you? I've just had a few bites of different types of meats and so far my stomach hasn't felt upset or anything...I think I'm taking it slow enough. It's weird adjusting to the taste of meat, and also adjusting to such a big part of my identity being changed. I agree with you about wanting to make sure the animals are raised and slaughtered as naturally and humanely as possible. Do you know of good places to buy other types of meat? You've got really good points about not really knowing what's behind the meat at New Seasons. I'm just concerned with how quickly our food budget is increasing so I guess that's the only thing pulling me a little towards buying somewhere besides Kookoolan on chicken.
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Just a quick, possibly pedantic note about "vegetarian fed" hens: it may not really mean that the hens are actually vegetarian, but rather that they are not given feed containing chicken byproducts, which is a common practice in conventional egg production. You're right, chickens are not naturally vegetarian, and they need protein. If they don't have access to bugs, they've got to get their protein from somewhere.

This is just off the top of my head, I don't know the specific practices of the farms that provide all the eggs available at say, New Seasons, but I do know that feed containing meat products is given to chickens in conventional operations.

I will say that it has me curious, and I'm actually going to email Stiebrs Farms to ask them how their chickens can be free roaming and be on a vegetarian diet. Watch this space.
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#16 of 24 Old 09-16-2007, 01:41 PM
 
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Zjande that's really interesting that you just now started eating meat after 14 years of being vegetarian!! I am in the *exact* same position and it's scary and sad for me to feel I have to eat meat, but I've just gotten to the point especially with my nutrition research that I don't feel being vegetarian is responsible for my body and especially not since I'm trying to get pregnant. I've been vegetarian for 18 years! How did the transition go for you? I've just had a few bites of different types of meats and so far my stomach hasn't felt upset or anything...I think I'm taking it slow enough. It's weird adjusting to the taste of meat, and also adjusting to such a big part of my identity being changed. I agree with you about wanting to make sure the animals are raised and slaughtered as naturally and humanely as possible. Do you know of good places to buy other types of meat? You've got really good points about not really knowing what's behind the meat at New Seasons. I'm just concerned with how quickly our food budget is increasing so I guess that's the only thing pulling me a little towards buying somewhere besides Kookoolan on chicken.
I have been lurking on this thread for a bit, and have to jump in here! I had been a veg. forever it seemed (maybe like 15 years also) and started to slowly eat "meat" in the form of seafood, then added some chicken and turkey. I love Kookoolan and was part of the SE co-op for awhile, but it honestly got complicated and the pickup times were a challenge for me because I would get off of work several hours before the delivery came (near my workplace) and drive the 85 blocks home to see Moon, then drive back in traffic to get the delivery, etc. I am hoping to just go out there occasionally and buy milk to freeze. Before I found Kookoolan, I purchased my raw milk in Tacoma and took it home here to freeze. Worked pretty well and met my need to avoid nasty pasteurized milk. I also Love the chickens from Kookoolan, but don't always have the time to prepare the entire chicken. I feel very lazy and un-pioneer-womanish , but I have been purchasing the once a week meat option at New Seasons. I am now planning on adding some beef back into my diet, but it's a SLOW process
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Just a quick, possibly pedantic note about "vegetarian fed" hens: it may not really mean that the hens are actually vegetarian, but rather that they are not given feed containing chicken byproducts, which is a common practice in conventional egg production. You're right, chickens are not naturally vegetarian, and they need protein. If they don't have access to bugs, they've got to get their protein from somewhere.

This is just off the top of my head, I don't know the specific practices of the farms that provide all the eggs available at say, New Seasons, but I do know that feed containing meat products is given to chickens in conventional operations.

I will say that it has me curious, and I'm actually going to email Stiebrs Farms to ask them how their chickens can be free roaming and be on a vegetarian diet. Watch this space.
:
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I have been lurking on this thread for a bit, and have to jump in here! I had been a veg. forever it seemed (maybe like 15 years also) and started to slowly eat "meat" in the form of seafood, then added some chicken and turkey. I love Kookoolan and was part of the SE co-op for awhile, but it honestly got complicated and the pickup times were a challenge for me because I would get off of work several hours before the delivery came (near my workplace) and drive the 85 blocks home to see Moon, then drive back in traffic to get the delivery, etc. I am hoping to just go out there occasionally and buy milk to freeze. Before I found Kookoolan, I purchased my raw milk in Tacoma and took it home here to freeze. Worked pretty well and met my need to avoid nasty pasteurized milk. I also Love the chickens from Kookoolan, but don't always have the time to prepare the entire chicken. I feel very lazy and un-pioneer-womanish , but I have been purchasing the once a week meat option at New Seasons. I am now planning on adding some beef back into my diet, but it's a SLOW process
Jessica... let me know what kind of beef you are looking for, cut and such, steak or hamburger.... jacks parents raise a few beef cows at a time, good human beef and its yummy, they bring us up a few packages a week, I would love to share!
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#19 of 24 Old 09-16-2007, 03:08 PM
 
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On our way out there we saw a Bison ranch that looked like it could be worth checking out - L-Bar-T I think it was called. Then in a field off to the right (heading there) near a bunch of overgrown christmas tree farms, I saw an elk! Anyone know anything about that? I wonder if he lives there or was just visiting or what. It almost looked not real cause it was in the exact same spot when we were traveling both ways. But why would anyone have a ginormous fake elk out in their field? lol
This place has the best buffalo meat around. They raise it on a farm in Eastern Oregon those buffalo you saw in the field are just their pets. Its a great family run business and wonderful meat.

Aimee Blessed Momma to 4 amazing boys, P ~ 9 H ~ 7 J ~ 4 and B ~ 1.  Happily married to D Living my almost dream life on an urban homestead, hoping for our forever land to find us soon!

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This place has the best buffalo meat around. They raise it on a farm in Eastern Oregon those buffalo you saw in the field are just their pets. Its a great family run business and wonderful meat.
Do you have any contact information?
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#21 of 24 Old 09-16-2007, 03:11 PM
 
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Thanks for the offer Ang! I bought some beef at NS and Adrienne is making me some jerky. That will be my entrance back to eating beef. In all honesty, it really seems more appealing that the poultry I have been eating, I just have a "thing" that prevents me from eating it. I definitely can't do ground anything yet. I tried some turkey meatballs and just wasn't there. Patrick is happy to eat all of it though, so none of my experiments have gone to waste. Something about growing a baby boy is really increasing my protein needs. I had none of this madness when preggers with Mooner.
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#22 of 24 Old 09-16-2007, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Here's what I found out about the Bison ranch: http://forestgrovenewstimes.com/news...78485266154800

Does anyone know if the meat is fresher and/or cheaper in their gift shop than in local grocery stores?

Actually I'm pretty positive what my husband and I saw was an elk, not right next to the bison farm but maybe 2 farms away or so. It had a long neck and the body of a huge deer, not the bulky body of a bison.

I think I need to learn more about freezing milk. And buy a second *good* freezer. Does the milk still come out tasting ok when it's thawed?
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#23 of 24 Old 09-16-2007, 03:21 PM
 
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I don't like frozen milk at all. It makes the fat really chunky, and it doesn't want to mix back in. I used to buy the raw milk from California--can't think of the name right now--and it shipped frozen. Didn't like it.

Thanks for the info about the Bison ranch! I'm definitely going to check it out.
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#24 of 24 Old 09-16-2007, 07:16 PM
 
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Yeah, the fat is hard to get mixed back in, but if you give it a good mix up just before freezing, it's a bit better. Fresh is best, but I thought the frozen was still yummier than pasteurized. Oh, and I also used to scrap a lot of the cream off before I froze it for my coffee or butter anyhow The milk expands a lot and I had many broken jars before I just gave in to leaving like 5 inches of head-space
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