OR and "opt out" HIV testing in pregnancy - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-19-2008, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
Banned
 
whalemilk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Grrr. For some reason this is really bugging me. Well I know why--because I already feel like I am having to do a lot of dumb tests just to appease hospital staff (homebirth not an option for me this time) and this is just one more thing for them to hound me about.

I am very low risk for HIV, I feel like I understand the situation well enough that I can choose not to have the test done. For me this is one place I draw the line--ok fine I'll do a postprandial glucose AGAIN, FINE you can let the student check my fundal height, but no you don't get to second guess my marriage and my sex life, THANX. They keep hounding me about it because "you never know" and I understand that OR is an "opt out" state. (Which I think is wrong--I don't feel women should be bullied into a test of an intimate nature like this, but whatever.) I want to keep refusing it but I need to know--are they going to test the baby if I refuse? With or without my consent? Because dammit, I don't want them messing with my baby for no good reason, either. And are they going to do something REALLY dumb like flag me for social work because I refused it for the baby?? I just need to know what I am dealing with, here!

Anyone have insight into this situation? As I understand it the "opt out" program is pretty new. Anyone able to opt out of the test and opt the baby out too without getting in too much trouble? Bleh. I hate this kind of thing.
whalemilk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-19-2008, 03:48 PM
 
luli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have no idea about the "opt out" thing. It's my understanding that you have the right to refuse any testing you don't want. I didn't have homebirths either. I declined the HIV test as well without any consequence.
luli is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
Banned
 
whalemilk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Huh, maybe I just have really persistent staff this time lucky me. LOL. The peri wasn't phased by my declining the test, but every other doctor or CNM I have seen since then has been all "WHAT?? But you HAVE to get the HIV test!!!" It's really annoying me. If I decline, that should be the end of the story!
whalemilk is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 03:56 PM
 
luli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've had 2 babies (both c-sections) in the last 3 years in 2 different PDX area hospitals and I just flat told them no way. I declined the genetic testing as well. Sorry to hear they are pushing.
luli is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 06:34 PM
 
shockels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: PDX Oregon
Posts: 477
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Keep in mind there are 2 HIV tests. There's the regular one that takes 3 days to get full results. Then there is also the rapid hiv test that gives results in 30 minutes. I believe they just changed the law/rules at OHSU that they (the nursing/MD's) DON'T need your permission to do a rapid HIV test. Of course they have to get the blood out of you first!

I should know more about the baby side of things with the HIV testing but am ashamed to say I don't. The policy that I think really sucks is that we do a UDS (urine drug screen) on the babies with mom's who were late to prenatal care, or had less than 5 prenatal visits, or admit to any drug use during pregnancy or for a few months before. That entails putting a bag over the baby's genitals and keeping it there until they pee. talk about awkward!

I would just keep sticking to your guns and be very clear about the hospital's policies....Just keep asking questions like "what do I have to do to make sure no one performs unwanted tests/lab work on me or my baby?" Getting a clear picture before you're in the hospital is helpful!

Sandra + Jeremy keepin' it real with Adelaide (2005) and Watson (2008)
shockels is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 06:54 PM
 
jstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: portland
Posts: 2,895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
it sounds like your caregivers are bullying you. i've had 2 hospital births in oregon. the first time i did the hiv test because...what the hay. the 2nd time i just declined the test and that was that. no one even said anything to me about it. it was totally not a big deal.

stick to your guns. don't do it if you don't want to
jstar is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
Banned
 
whalemilk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ugh I hope they're not going to do the drug test ridiculousness too! I've had full prenatal care, I just got tossed around and didn't end up getting care at OHSU until 32 weeks.

I *have* to give them my blood to monitor Rh titers. I wonder if it would be enough to say "ok now what tests are you running on this sample?" and give explicit consent only for the ones I want. They're also trying to sneak in GD testing even though it's way too late for that and my random sugars have been fine. The stupid thing is, this is the CNM office being bizarre! The peris were like "do you want this test? no? Alrighty!" and let it go.

I think I will ask point blank like you suggest, Shockels. I also want to ask them point blank what they plan on doing about my "ZOMGZZ BIG BABY!" because they keep harrassing me about that. I mean if all my tests come back normal, will they leave me alone? Or will they keep freaking and wanting MORE tests? And are they going to push for an early induction? I want some heads up on this from them so I can at least figure out what my approach will be.
whalemilk is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 07:39 PM
 
jstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: portland
Posts: 2,895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i had an OMG big baby too. my first was only semi-big. when i got pregnant with my 2nd i went to a CNM group prenatal appointment.....i figured i should go more 'midwife' than 'ob' the second time around (having become a fan of mdc). the midwife wanted me to do the GD test on my next visit at 14 weeks. they also had drug testing at every prenatal visit (as in 'here's the form....you're going to sign it aren't you??' i was so irked about both of those things, i just went back to my OB who is totally more relaxed than i could tell they would be about everything. he's so old school he has faith in natural birthing processes i delivered a 10 lb 15 oz baby (not induced. no csec) when i had my one ultrasound the tech was trying to convince me that my dates must be wrong because this baby was measuring in the 99th percentile for everything. she said my OB was 'sure to move up my due date.' my dates weren't wrong and when i asked him about the baby's size he was totally nonplussed.

don't let them freak out about the big baby thing either no one can make you get induced.
jstar is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
Banned
 
whalemilk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah I all but rolled my eyes and laughed at the woman who was trying to freak me out that my baby was measuring (on ultrasound) in the 90th percentile and if it kept up like this, they would have to "measure my pelvis." I'm like "my daughter at 2 is in the 90th percentile for height...my husband at 6'3 is probably in the 90th percentile for adult men...I at 5'11 am in the 90th percentile for adult women of my race...so...I think this is probably normal." Not to mention, my pelvis was already "measured" when I pushed a 9.5 lb baby out of it two years ago! Jeez people!

I wish I had time to shop around for an OB like yours but at 34 weeks going on 35 I pretty much have to take whoever is the special that day at the cafeteria no matter what, lol. I'm glad my peri doesn't want to see me again for a while because he only wants to see me if things go haywire, but personality wise I would MUCH rather have him at my birth than some of the other people I have seen!
whalemilk is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 08:21 PM
 
pamamidwife's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I think it's crazy, considering that pregnancy is one of the reasons given for false-positives on the ELISA test.

can you imagine being tested, then getting a false positive and having your pregnancy, birth and baby treated in ways that would dramatically alter both of your health and safety?

ugh. You have the right to refuse anything and everything, no matter what anyone says. If they bitch, just claim it's against your religion and bring up the ACLU. shuts 'em up pretty darn quick.

so silly that women even have to go through this kind of drama. one more reason why true, woman-led health care is so important instead of being treated like you're a child.
pamamidwife is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 08:21 PM
 
jstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: portland
Posts: 2,895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
that all sounds way too familiar down to the 6'3" husband my first was only 9lb3oz though
jstar is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
Banned
 
whalemilk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamamidwife View Post
I think it's crazy, considering that pregnancy is one of the reasons given for false-positives on the ELISA test.

can you imagine being tested, then getting a false positive and having your pregnancy, birth and baby treated in ways that would dramatically alter both of your health and safety?
That's EXACTLY why I don't want to do it. That and it seems a good enough place as any to draw the line of what I will and will not do just to make them happy so they'll leave me alone. But I took a research methods and stats class a couple years back where we actually used that example as a case study of false positives, and the rate is surprisingly high. At this stage, with the comedy of errors I have already had in my pregnancy, I don't even want to CONTEMPLATE what would happen if I got a false positive. My freaking head would explode.

And it's so silly. I was offered this test by my homebirth midwives. I refused. I was offered by the second team of homebirth midwives. I refused. I was offered by the peri. I refused. I assumed these folks all charted my refusal, so it's on the record. I was offered by the CNMs. I refused, but they won't take no for an answer apparently. How many times do I have to say "no" before they can be satisfied that I really am "opting out"??? Same thing with the !@# GD crap. Grr.
whalemilk is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 10:53 PM
 
pamamidwife's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
To be offered it is within Oregon law. To make you feel like an idiot for making an informed choice is unethical.

It is standard in most obstetric panels, so that is why it is offered and there has to be a specific mention that you don't want it for it to be excluded.

*sigh* so confused about the way hospital providers deal with pregnancy and women who attempt responsibility for their healthcare.
pamamidwife is offline  
Old 08-19-2008, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
Banned
 
whalemilk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah I don't mind being offered, and no one made an issue of me refusing it until the hospital CNMs, mystifyingly enough.

I'll deal with repeating myself a million times if I have to, I guess I'm just worried that if I dodge the test, they'll go for the baby instead.

This is all so foreign to me, I think I am in the throes of hospital culture shock right now. I'm also trying to figure out how to get it set in stone that students will never, ever, EVER touch my body ever again, lol. I mean I totally understand that's how they learn. I was more than happy to go along with the CPM apprentices, let them try stuff, etc. But these hospital students are another thing entirely. I'm still walking funny from the "practice" pelvic I had when I went in to r/o preterm labor last night. UGH.
whalemilk is offline  
Old 08-20-2008, 12:04 AM
 
pamamidwife's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Just remember, mama, you can say NO to anything, including allowing someone other than your care provider do exams on you.

{{hugs}} I'm sorry. Hopefully things will get smoother soon.
pamamidwife is offline  
Old 08-20-2008, 02:40 AM - Thread Starter
Banned
 
whalemilk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks! I hope so too. I hope that the next CNM I see is like my long lost sister, and she ends up being on call for my birth. Hey I can hope, right??

I'm writing a birth plan right now, trying to keep it 3x5 card sized. I think it's basically going to be "no students, obtain specific consent for all non-emergency procedures on me or the infant even if they are "routine," give me enough warning of what you want to do next that I have time to think it over before giving last minute 'consent.'" That should about cover it I hope.
whalemilk is offline  
Old 08-20-2008, 03:49 AM
 
~Megan~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oregon
Posts: 15,114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've seen a few other posts from you in pregnancy and it really sounds like you might be happiest if you considered a homebirth. You won't have people posting nasty things about you on blogs or care that you are overweight or make you take tests you don't want.

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
~Megan~ is offline  
Old 08-20-2008, 04:40 AM - Thread Starter
Banned
 
whalemilk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Right, and I had one last time, but like I said it's not an option this time. I just have other factors going on healthwise this time which make it not really feasible and for that specific condition, we really do need some monitoring. I just don't need to be monitored for everything else on earth, heh.
whalemilk is offline  
Old 08-20-2008, 09:41 PM
 
joanq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 226
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I opted out of HIV testing during pregnancy with no trouble. My husband had just been tested for a life insurance policy and I didn't see the need.

However, I do know they ran bloodwork after the birth without my consent, not sure if they tested for HIV or not, but they tested for MMR immunity.
joanq is offline  
Old 08-22-2008, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
Banned
 
whalemilk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So a little update...the *awesome* nurse in the office yesterday looked into it for me and you can opt out without anything weird happening. They will just offer it to you when you check into the hospital because they have to offer. The only thing is, if you want to use the waterbirth room, you have to have HIV and Hep C tests amongst other things. Some kind of weird health code thing. Well I think it's weird at least, because presumably you don't have to have those tests to use the regular showers and tubs in the hospital so huh. Whatever makes the lawyers happy I guess!
whalemilk is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off