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#1 of 20 Old 02-15-2009, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Would you press charge for your birth trauma. My doctor reported the sexually assualt I expierenced during my eldest's birth to the police. :

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=979310 My story is here. The assualt was a nurse who did an agressive perineal massage and I had to beg her to stop. I pleaded with her at least a dozen times to remove her hand from my vagina before she did so. For me, as a woman who could feel everything but I couldn't move thanks to a epidural that rendered one of my legs useless, I felt I was trapped and couldn't rescue myself from the unwanted contact of my vagina. Vaginal contact=sexual contact.

I know that if this were to go to court I would ruin the nurse's career. I know she didn't set out to sexually assualt me. I know this is the standard of care for an american birth. I know that it would more than likely be thrown out because she was "doing her job" . So what do I do? Do I continue to ignore it as I have for nearly 3.5 years or do I pursue the report that I was forced to filed with the police (which feels like anoth violation from DS1's birth)?

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#2 of 20 Old 02-15-2009, 09:50 PM
 
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It is impossible for met to say for certain what I'd do, because I think it's one of those things that you never know what you'll do until you get there. I hope that I would press charges and fully cooperate with police. I hope that the police would take it seriously and pursue the matter.

The nurse acted completely unethically AND criminally. It is still rape if a rapist mistakenly believes it's okay to have sex with someone who is passed out drunk or otherwise unconscious or unable to consent. Just because the rapist mistakenly thought he couldn't be prosecuted for what he knows (or ought to know) is unethical behavior doesn't mean he shouldn't be prosecuted. And the fact that he's a hardworking father of five with a career on the line doesn't mean he shouldn't be prosecuted.

However, going forward with prosecution would be very difficult for me personally. It would mean re-living the trauma and seeing my abuser in court and/or hearing their defense(s). I think that this kind of prosecution needs to be done and nurses and doctors need to be acutely aware that they should be asking for and getting consent whenever possible, and listening if consent is withdrawn.

The fact that the doctor reported her suggests to me that he took your complaint very, very seriously and feels it warrants follow-up. That nurse may be doing similar things to other patients. Especially if the hospital is hesitant to do anything meaningful, it would be important to communicate to her officially that her actions were unethical and criminal.

Only you know if pursuing this is good for you, though. While I think it's important generally, I think it's more important that it only be done if you can handle it and you feel like it would be helpful in your healing process.
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#3 of 20 Old 02-16-2009, 09:00 AM
 
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I believe that there is an alternative to pressing criminal charges--make a report to her licensing board, and have them take disciplinary action.

I know that for you it was a sexual assault and I respect your valid feelings about that. And you know that for HER, there was nothing sexual intended. There have been numerous cases of HCP behaving in an intentionally sexual way with patients--and THOSE people deserve criminal prosecution to the fullest extent of the law IMO. But not this nurse. Clearly, she needs to learn how to respect her patients' wishes/needs, how to put herself in their shoes as necessary to modify her behavior--and I think she will certainly put herself to learning/changing in this area if she is forced to deal with a complaint against her license.
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#4 of 20 Old 02-16-2009, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I know that for you it was a sexual assault and I respect your valid feelings about that. And you know that for HER, there was nothing sexual intended. There have been numerous cases of HCP behaving in an intentionally sexual way with patients--and THOSE people deserve criminal prosecution to the fullest extent of the law IMO. But not this nurse. Clearly, she needs to learn how to respect her patients' wishes/needs, how to put herself in their shoes as necessary to modify her behavior--and I think she will certainly put herself to learning/changing in this area if she is forced to deal with a complaint against her license.
That was exactly my thoughts from the beginning. The doctor calling the police made me wonder otherwise. I honestly harbor no bad feelings toward this woman (don't even know her name) because I know that this is what birth is in a hospital. Doesn't change the violation.

I wouldn't want to hurt the chances of someone with a real case by going after this nurse for what she percieved to be her job. I'll have to think about talking to thr hospital or licesening board as like Romana9+2 said it would mean digging up the trauma. It was hard to discuss it with a complete stranger I don't know if I can do it again right now.

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#5 of 20 Old 02-16-2009, 09:03 PM
 
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Here is a really off the wall idea. Feel free to disregard if it would not work, but...sometimes a "healing circle" mediated by a third party trained in healing circles can really help both parties. You would get an opportunity to talk about your experience with the nurse and she would get to respond. Tis can really help bring closure for you too. Usually it is a very healing and growing time for all involved. It would not damage her career, but it could open her to more compassionate care. I'd think that she is already aware that the doctor reported her, so it may really help her put it to rest too.
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#6 of 20 Old 02-16-2009, 09:15 PM
 
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I am really sorry for your birth trauma. I had birth trauma too and never realized that there even was such a thing as birth rape until recently. I've considered confronting the doctor, but it makes me feel all queasy (still almost 3 years later), so I'm trying to focus on regaining my power with my impending birth. Sorry no help on the advice front, just offering you my empathy. It has helped me just to know there are other mamas out there who know what's up, while it also saddens e that so many don't and there are so few resources for new moms who might be thrown into post-traumatic stress after their birth experiences.

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#7 of 20 Old 02-16-2009, 10:40 PM
 
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I honestly harbor no bad feelings toward this woman (don't even know her name) because I know that this is what birth is in a hospital. Doesn't change the violation.
I completely understand if you, personally, don't want to relive those events and are hesitant to go through whatever might be involved in pressing charges. You are obviously feeling very strongly about what happened. I also understand that you are not keen on "punishing" this nurse. It sounds like your preference would be to just move on and put it behind you.

The only piece of different perspective I would give is that I'm not sure its just about this incident. As a pp mentioned, the doctor's insistence on taking drastic action does suggest that this nurse might be assaulting her patients more regularly. And I don't use that word lightly - any care provider who continues to touch you when you say "no" or continues to go ahead with a medical procedure that you are actively, verbally refusing is committing assault.

But beyond this particular nurse - what if you could make it less likely that these kinds of assaults would happen at this hospital at all?? I hate the idea that "this is what birth is in a hospital." You know what will happen if you were to go forward with this criminal proceeding? That hospital will start aggressively training its staff - all of them, not just this nurse - about patient assault, informed consent, birth rape and so on. It will raise awareness. Wouldn't it be nice if a hospital were practicing "defensive medicine" in a way that actually benefited women? That will only happen if women take action when they get this kind of (frankly, horrifying) treatment.

BTW, pressing criminal charges doesn't at all mean that a) this woman will face any serious sentence or b) that you would have to go to trial or before a jury or anything. Almost all criminal cases (at least here in NJ) are settled before trial. For a first offender on a minor offense, the sentence is often a probation that is suspended in a way such that if nothing else happens for a year the defendant gets a clean record. And, victims back out all the time - if you got down the path and then decided you couldn't go through with it, its unlikely anyone would blink. You actually might want to sit down with a DA or prosecutor and hear them out about what to expect.

Still I go back to my original start - this is your call, your trauma, and whether you want to do this is up to you. No one would blame you for not going through.
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#8 of 20 Old 02-17-2009, 09:00 AM
 
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Just want to point out that criminal prosecution for sexual crimes is pretty different than most other crimes. If this nurse is convicted or pleads guilty, it will have a deep and permanent negative impact on her career and life. generally speaking, sex offenders are considered "incurable" and have the highest rate of repeat offenses--this is why Sex Offender Registries have been created (with laws now about who must be registered). Now, anyone who really does commit sexual crimes SHOULD have to contend with that impact, IMO....it just means we should be very very careful who we prosecute under sexual crimes.

As for the doctor making a criminal complaint....well, maybe he knows things you don't--maybe this nurse does have a history of weird sex stuff with her work, or just plain being too rough in the line of work. So in that case, yay for him. But cynic that I am, I also have to wonder if he mainly did that to placate YOU, so that you won't look at him in any light of 'cohort' with that nurse. That is, he made the complaint more as a CYA act than out of true belief that the nurse deserves criminal prosecution under a sex crime.

Something to think about.

BTW I really really like the healing circle idea myself. I have seen this be very powerful.

And final note....yes, looking into this stuff surely does stir up the trauma you might rather leave lie. But healing means, to some degree IMO, stirring that crap up, speaking it out, acting to rectify--the only way out is THROUGH. One can surely shove such things into the deepest recesses of the mind and heart and try to ignore it...but this is not the same as healing.

Of course, ONLY the survivor can say what and when constitutes the RIght Healing Measures for herself.
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#9 of 20 Old 02-17-2009, 09:08 AM
 
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I didn't even know HCP did perineal massages....and I had 2 vaginal hospital births. This certainly is NOT "standard" at our local hospital. Now DH did them in the weeks leading up to birth, but, I never had a HCP do one.

ITA with the healing circle.
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#10 of 20 Old 02-17-2009, 04:14 PM
 
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She put her hands inside your vagina and didn't listen to you to take them out, she ought to be prosecuted for assaulting you. How else are people in the medical profession ever going to learn that your body remains your body despite their "protocol?" That kind of behavior is disgusting.

+ = and .
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#11 of 20 Old 02-17-2009, 08:05 PM
 
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Yes, no and maybe.

Just because she didn't intend anything sexual by what she did to you does not stop it from being rape. Rape is about power, not really about sex, just that rapists use sex and sexuality to gain power. What she was doing was totally about power. Why on earth else would you do something like that?

And yes, people who do this should be reported. And charged and prosecuted and punished to the full extent, because denying a labouring woman the right to informed consent/refusal is violating a basic human right. You would want any human rights violator to be caught and punished, right?

And this sort of thing does need to be made public. Too many women have this sort of thing happen to them because the perpetrators have been doing this sort of thing for years and getting away with it. Too many women feel ashamed that it happened to them. Too many women don't even realise that what happened to them was wrong - they've been conditioned to believe that you have to resign all rights over your own body in labour.

But it will be a very difficult ordeal for you. It will bring up all sorts of things you thought you'd gotten over or forgotten. It will make you very vulnerable. It would be very understandable if you didn't want to put yourself and your family through all of that.

Ultimately, of course, the choice is yours. No one would blame you if you don't want to put yourself on the line as a trail-blazer for birth-rape crimes convictions, but there are many women who would thank you if you did.

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#12 of 20 Old 02-18-2009, 01:13 AM
 
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its absolutely disgusting that this sort of thing is seen as okay. i go on rants about it, actually when i start thinking about how were told out entire lives that if anyone touches us how we dont want, and we say no, then thats it, and its no or else they need to be locked up...and yet when youre pregnant or birthing, anyone who wants is supposed to put their hands/fingers/arms/whatever theyd like to inside you and do whatever theyd like and youre just supposed to deal with it "cause they know best"

complete bs and it makes me SO angry.

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#13 of 20 Old 02-18-2009, 10:22 AM
 
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so it is not that common for a doc to do something like this- maybe he has heard or seen problems before and is just at a limit having it happen again- I can feel 2 ways about this- most of the time medical professionals slough off behavior like this and expect you to do the same- so in that way the doc really beleived you and validated what happened to you- in another way sexual assalt is a real bugger in court and I personally would not want to face court nor do I necessarly feel that every trespass deserves punishment- sometimes correction is what is needed- you could try for professional complaint but I think that those can end up in court as well...
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#14 of 20 Old 02-18-2009, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow so many responses thank you all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ'sMom View Post
Here is a really off the wall idea. Feel free to disregard if it would not work, but...sometimes a "healing circle" mediated by a third party trained in healing circles can really help both parties. You would get an opportunity to talk about your experience with the nurse and she would get to respond. Tis can really help bring closure for you too. Usually it is a very healing and growing time for all involved. It would not damage her career, but it could open her to more compassionate care. I'd think that she is already aware that the doctor reported her, so it may really help her put it to rest too.
I really like this idea. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by heatherweh View Post
I am really sorry for your birth trauma. I had birth trauma too and never realized that there even was such a thing as birth rape until recently. I've considered confronting the doctor, but it makes me feel all queasy (still almost 3 years later), so I'm trying to focus on regaining my power with my impending birth. Sorry no help on the advice front, just offering you my empathy. It has helped me just to know there are other mamas out there who know what's up, while it also saddens e that so many don't and there are so few resources for new moms who might be thrown into post-traumatic stress after their birth experiences.


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Originally Posted by meganmarie View Post
It sounds like your preference would be to just move on and put it behind you.

The only piece of different perspective I would give is that I'm not sure its just about this incident. As a pp mentioned, the doctor's insistence on taking drastic action does suggest that this nurse might be assaulting her patients more regularly. And I don't use that word lightly - any care provider who continues to touch you when you say "no" or continues to go ahead with a medical procedure that you are actively, verbally refusing is committing assault.

But beyond this particular nurse - what if you could make it less likely that these kinds of assaults would happen at this hospital at all?? I hate the idea that "this is what birth is in a hospital." You know what will happen if you were to go forward with this criminal proceeding? That hospital will start aggressively training its staff - all of them, not just this nurse - about patient assault, informed consent, birth rape and so on. It will raise awareness. Wouldn't it be nice if a hospital were practicing "defensive medicine" in a way that actually benefited women? That will only happen if women take action when they get this kind of (frankly, horrifying) treatment.

BTW, pressing criminal charges doesn't at all mean that a) this woman will face any serious sentence or b) that you would have to go to trial or before a jury or anything. Almost all criminal cases (at least here in NJ) are settled before trial. For a first offender on a minor offense, the sentence is often a probation that is suspended in a way such that if nothing else happens for a year the defendant gets a clean record. And, victims back out all the time - if you got down the path and then decided you couldn't go through with it, its unlikely anyone would blink. You actually might want to sit down with a DA or prosecutor and hear them out about what to expect.

Still I go back to my original start - this is your call, your trauma, and whether you want to do this is up to you. No one would blame you for not going through.
I've been sexually assualted 3 times including my son's birth. I've been through 2 sexual assualt cases. It's hard, it's so hard. I could never start a case without going through with it because I knew in both of those cases I was right they were wrong. I got 2 very different outcomes. I've also seen innocent people hurt by sexual assualt charges. I have no doubt this nurse would loose her license and I don't think it's fair for her career to end over her doing what she believed to be her job. My doctor called and informed me after our visit that "I have to report all cases of reported abuse so the police will be contacting you shortly" so it wasn't that I was taken seriously as it's the law she reports an abuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsBlack View Post
Just want to point out that criminal prosecution for sexual crimes is pretty different than most other crimes. If this nurse is convicted or pleads guilty, it will have a deep and permanent negative impact on her career and life. generally speaking, sex offenders are considered "incurable" and have the highest rate of repeat offenses--this is why Sex Offender Registries have been created (with laws now about who must be registered). Now, anyone who really does commit sexual crimes SHOULD have to contend with that impact, IMO....it just means we should be very very careful who we prosecute under sexual crimes.And final note....yes, looking into this stuff surely does stir up the trauma you might rather leave lie. But healing means, to some degree IMO, stirring that crap up, speaking it out, acting to rectify--the only way out is THROUGH. One can surely shove such things into the deepest recesses of the mind and heart and try to ignore it...but this is not the same as healing.

Of course, ONLY the survivor can say what and when constitutes the RIght Healing Measures for herself.
yes to the above! I know that healing means stirring up crap, and I've done a lot in the last couple years . I will continue to do so throughout my life but right now things just aren't in a place where stirring it up will be beneficial to myself or my family.

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Originally Posted by soxthecatrules View Post
I didn't even know HCP did perineal massages....and I had 2 vaginal hospital births. This certainly is NOT "standard" at our local hospital. Now DH did them in the weeks leading up to birth, but, I never had a HCP do one.

ITA with the healing circle.
I know it's not uncommon with epidurals so you can feel where to push and be given the urge to push. Birth Professionals feel free to correct me. Neither of which I needed help with because of the ineffective epidural.

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Originally Posted by mwherbs View Post
so it is not that common for a doc to do something like this- maybe he has heard or seen problems before and is just at a limit having it happen again- I can feel 2 ways about this- most of the time medical professionals slough off behavior like this and expect you to do the same- so in that way the doc really beleived you and validated what happened to you- in another way sexual assalt is a real bugger in court and I personally would not want to face court nor do I necessarly feel that every trespass deserves punishment- sometimes correction is what is needed- you could try for professional complaint but I think that those can end up in court as well...
That's what I'm fearful of is that if I do file a complaint that it will end up going to court. I was forced to report a violation. How ironic is it that? Having my power taken away for having my power taken away.

Just some other thoughts on this. I would love to change hospital birth, for these kinds of things to never happen. My situation wouldn't be viewed as assault by the masses. It took me 2 years to call it what it was to admit that I had been sexually assaulted again. That my family looked on while I was assualted and didn't see it as such and didn;t try to stop it. The officer didn't quite understand why I was calling it sexual assault I just had to keep saying "I said stop, I said no". The doctor questioned me even said "well in labor they have to check dialtion and effacement" and I had to explain that she wasn't checking anything she was doing pernieal massage and I asked a dozen or more times for her to remove her hands from my vagina before she did so.

I do appriciate all the thoughts and responses, thank you all.

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#15 of 20 Old 02-18-2009, 12:37 PM
 
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I am sorry all this happened to you ....

There are some times when a patient says "NO" and a doctor may do something anyway. For example, a patient is bleeding to death from a severe leg wound. The doctor presses on the artery to stop the bleeding, causing increased pain to the patient. The patient screams "NO". Does the patient's comment mean that they don't want the pressure on the artery, they would prefer to die? Or is the patient just communicating pain to the doctor? Unless there is a written DNR and a signed statement saying that the patient would prefer to die rather than be subjected to a specific procedure, the doctor is going to go ahead with the life saving standard of care - as she should. People with a religious objection to blood transfusion probably carry a wallet card in case of a car accident.

Your life was not in danger when the nurse touched you. But you were delivering a baby, which has time-critical steps (in the view of the hospital.) Possibly a perenial "massage" is the "standard of care" in that hospital for epidural deliveries - mostly not felt because mostly the epidurals work. The nurse will claim that she was just doing what the doc told her to do, and trying to help you birth the baby vaginally. Had she stopped and asked if you would prefer the painful "massage" or an immediate c-section, what would you have chosen?

I understand that what she did must have been very very painful. But it sounds more to me like a medical mistake (a wrong standard of care for deliveries where the epidural is not working) rather than a sexual assault. Maybe talking with a more neutral third party (a doc or delivery nurse not involved with this case) will help you understand if this is a wrong "standard of care" at that hospital or a crazed/incompetent problem nurse.

I think you should consider counseling to deal with the birth trauma - this will bring you more peace than a sexual assault charge against a nurse. Even if you do go with police charges, counseling can help you. I really hope you can find the right person to help you with the birth trauma.
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#16 of 20 Old 02-18-2009, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am sorry all this happened to you ....

There are some times when a patient says "NO" and a doctor may do something anyway. For example, a patient is bleeding to death from a severe leg wound. The doctor presses on the artery to stop the bleeding, causing increased pain to the patient. The patient screams "NO". Does the patient's comment mean that they don't want the pressure on the artery, they would prefer to die? Or is the patient just communicating pain to the doctor? Unless there is a written DNR and a signed statement saying that the patient would prefer to die rather than be subjected to a specific procedure, the doctor is going to go ahead with the life saving standard of care - as she should. People with a religious objection to blood transfusion probably carry a wallet card in case of a car accident.

Your life was not in danger when the nurse touched you. But you were delivering a baby, which has time-critical steps (in the view of the hospital.) Possibly a perenial "massage" is the "standard of care" in that hospital for epidural deliveries - mostly not felt because mostly the epidurals work. The nurse will claim that she was just doing what the doc told her to do, and trying to help you birth the baby vaginally. Had she stopped and asked if you would prefer the painful "massage" or an immediate c-section, what would you have chosen?

I understand that what she did must have been very very painful. But it sounds more to me like a medical mistake (a wrong standard of care for deliveries where the epidural is not working) rather than a sexual assault. Maybe talking with a more neutral third party (a doc or delivery nurse not involved with this case) will help you understand if this is a wrong "standard of care" at that hospital or a crazed/incompetent problem nurse.

I think you should consider counseling to deal with the birth trauma - this will bring you more peace than a sexual assault charge against a nurse. Even if you do go with police charges, counseling can help you. I really hope you can find the right person to help you with the birth trauma.
Forgive me if I have misinterepted your post. Her medical mistake assualted me in a sexual way. It was not medically necessary as there are no studies that say for sure pernial massage is good (or bad). It wasn't presented to me as an option, she never asked permission to enter my body, she just DID. Your post helps solidify my thinking that the masses wouldn't view this as sexual assault. It's dehumanizing what's done to women in their labor rooms, or at least my birth expierence was. A doctor or nurse wouldn't walk into any other room in the hospital and insert their hands in a patient's vagina without throughly discussing what they felt was necessary to do, life threatening emergencies excluded. As birth (most of the time and in my situation) isn't a life threatening emergency.

Thanks for the suggestion on counseling, but I have proved time and time again I process better when I go it alone. Except for this part of my birth I feel relatively at peace about all of it as there isn't much I can do to change it and I've grown to be a better person because of it.

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#17 of 20 Old 02-18-2009, 07:07 PM
 
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I believe that there is an alternative to pressing criminal charges--make a report to her licensing board, and have them take disciplinary action.

I know that for you it was a sexual assault and I respect your valid feelings about that. And you know that for HER, there was nothing sexual intended. There have been numerous cases of HCP behaving in an intentionally sexual way with patients--and THOSE people deserve criminal prosecution to the fullest extent of the law IMO. But not this nurse. Clearly, she needs to learn how to respect her patients' wishes/needs, how to put herself in their shoes as necessary to modify her behavior--and I think she will certainly put herself to learning/changing in this area if she is forced to deal with a complaint against her license.
I agree with this completely. Especially since you said "I know that if this were to go to court I would ruin the nurse's career. I know she didn't set out to sexually assualt me." You may want to think about reporting her to your state board of registration in nursing. Most all sites are on line, and so is the complaint process. All reports are investigated. It might give you a feeling that you did something to offset what happened. And she will be notified of the complaint, and she will have to confront what she did. As Ms Black said, at the very least she will need to think about her behavior and its effect on her patients.
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#18 of 20 Old 02-24-2009, 03:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MsBlack View Post
I believe that there is an alternative to pressing criminal charges--make a report to her licensing board, and have them take disciplinary action.

I know that for you it was a sexual assault and I respect your valid feelings about that. And you know that for HER, there was nothing sexual intended. There have been numerous cases of HCP behaving in an intentionally sexual way with patients--and THOSE people deserve criminal prosecution to the fullest extent of the law IMO. But not this nurse. Clearly, she needs to learn how to respect her patients' wishes/needs, how to put herself in their shoes as necessary to modify her behavior--and I think she will certainly put herself to learning/changing in this area if she is forced to deal with a complaint against her license.
Great idea. OP, I had the exact same thing happen to me. When you told her to stop and she continued she acted without your consent and that's illegal (in Denmark and in the US too as far as I know). I'm so sorry for you - I know how painful and humiliating it is. I don't think I've ever seen it as sexual assualt but more as any other kind of violent act. But the fact that the violence was aimed at your vagina can make the impact much worse. In my case I would be crying after having intercourse with my husband for three years following the birth. What the midwife did was so painful that I don't remember it. I've blocked out of my memory.

I think you should go forward and I'd start with her licensing board. If they don't take it very serious then consider pressing charges.

Good luck OP!
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#19 of 20 Old 02-24-2009, 06:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Nursingmama05 View Post
I've been sexually assualted 3 times including my son's birth. I've been through 2 sexual assualt cases. It's hard, it's so hard. I could never start a case without going through with it because I knew in both of those cases I was right they were wrong. I got 2 very different outcomes. I've also seen innocent people hurt by sexual assualt charges. I have no doubt this nurse would loose her license and I don't think it's fair for her career to end over her doing what she believed to be her job. My doctor called and informed me after our visit that "I have to report all cases of reported abuse so the police will be contacting you shortly" so it wasn't that I was taken seriously as it's the law she reports an abuse.

yes to the above! I know that healing means stirring up crap, and I've done a lot in the last couple years . I will continue to do so throughout my life but right now things just aren't in a place where stirring it up will be beneficial to myself or my family.

Just some other thoughts on this. I would love to change hospital birth, for these kinds of things to never happen. My situation wouldn't be viewed as assault by the masses. It took me 2 years to call it what it was to admit that I had been sexually assaulted again. That my family looked on while I was assualted and didn't see it as such and didn;t try to stop it. The officer didn't quite understand why I was calling it sexual assault I just had to keep saying "I said stop, I said no". The doctor questioned me even said "well in labor they have to check dialtion and effacement" and I had to explain that she wasn't checking anything she was doing pernieal massage and I asked a dozen or more times for her to remove her hands from my vagina before she did so.
If she was ignoring your requests to stop and you had not asked her to even do perineal massage, she was not doing her job. She was assaulting you.

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Originally Posted by AutumnAir View Post
Just because she didn't intend anything sexual by what she did to you does not stop it from being rape. Rape is about power, not really about sex, just that rapists use sex and sexuality to gain power. What she was doing was totally about power. Why on earth else would you do something like that?

And yes, people who do this should be reported. And charged and prosecuted and punished to the full extent, because denying a labouring woman the right to informed consent/refusal is violating a basic human right. You would want any human rights violator to be caught and punished, right?

And this sort of thing does need to be made public. Too many women have this sort of thing happen to them because the perpetrators have been doing this sort of thing for years and getting away with it. Too many women feel ashamed that it happened to them. Too many women don't even realise that what happened to them was wrong - they've been conditioned to believe that you have to resign all rights over your own body in labour.
I was going to say the first bolded part.

The second--even your family is denying that you have to right to autonomy, to your own body during your labour.

What are the statute of limitations for assault in your state? Can you still press charges, and how long can you wait, considering you said for your family this is not a good time to address it.
s

Oh, and I want to validate your experience and feelings. You have suffered sexual assault twice before; you know what it is like, you know when you are being assaulted! I think one of the biggest obstacles is that people don't understand sexual assault, or have such a narrow definition. Rape is generally defined as a man attacking a woman. And in a certain way. Other sexual assaults are not acknowledge as 'real'.

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#20 of 20 Old 02-24-2009, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Another thank you to EVERYONE that has responded thank you so much. It means a lot to me. Such an wonderful perspectives and opinions I've been given a lot to think about.

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Originally Posted by Maggirayne View Post
If she was ignoring your requests to stop and you had not asked her to even do perineal massage, she was not doing her job. She was assaulting you.


I was going to say the first bolded part.

The second--even your family is denying that you have to right to autonomy, to your own body during your labour.

What are the statute of limitations for assault in your state? Can you still press charges, and how long can you wait, considering you said for your family this is not a good time to address it.
s

Oh, and I want to validate your experience and feelings. You have suffered sexual assault twice before; you know what it is like, you know when you are being assaulted! I think one of the biggest obstacles is that people don't understand sexual assault, or have such a narrow definition. Rape is generally defined as a man attacking a woman. And in a certain way. Other sexual assaults are not acknowledge as 'real'.
You're right not listening to my wishes wasn't doing her job. I have 5 years file a formal complaint so I'm running out of time, DS will be 4 this year. I don't know if I'll be ready in the next year and a half. And you made a wonderful point in the bolded area.

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