vent--sick of birth "know it alls" - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 43 Old 04-15-2009, 12:38 AM
 
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Folks who think that willpower/education/planning will guarantee a perfect birth miss out on basic facts.

One is, that 100 years ago our "traumatic births" would have ended in mourning and tears, Not just babies, but women too died in situations that are today "traumatic births" that end in healthy babies and mamas. Sure we could do without the drama and the iatrogenic trauma, but c-sections do save lives!

Sometimes labor is dangerous, sometimes (not always) PIH can be an example, so are known congenital defects.

Almost nobody wants a c-sec.

Sometimes the difference between a successful VBAC and a repeat c-section is the matter of the OB/midwife on call.

I was lucky three times. In my last pregnancy my baby was breech for a while, she went back to vertex (thankfully) and while my OB was game to try manual version, I was nervous and was mentally preparing for the possibility of a c-section.

All that being said, it is also pathetic that VBAC is becoming less available in the US. More pathetic are the OBs who do not close the incision properly after a c-sec, setting women up for problems. Pathetic are the OBs that claim c/secs save pelvic floor trauma later on, when the pelvic floor trauma comes from birthing in the lithotomy position. Also pathetic are the hospitals that allow anesthesiologists to stand in the way of VBAC because they don't want to be in house24/7. It's not a country club. They went into medicine to care for people, they can watch the football game in the on-call room as well as at home!
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#32 of 43 Old 04-15-2009, 08:13 PM
 
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I was probably a bit more like that woman in the OP (although I'd like to think I'm a bit more tactful) until I became a doula and began to see much more of the intricacies of birth. After you've seen a few things, it's a lot harder to be so easily dismissive of complexity.

Wife of one and mom of five, including my HBAC twins!
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#33 of 43 Old 04-16-2009, 01:13 AM
 
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OP and everyone else on this thread,
thanks for sharing your stories.

I had both my girls via unplanned c-sec.

I just stumbled upon this thread, and it is so wonderful to read. It's amazing to hear so many of my own feelings spoken by others.

My younger dd is now 4.5, so I've done a lot of healing, but I still ache for the homebirth-in-a-tub-in-my-living-room that's never going to be for me.

thank you, thank you for speaking my heart!
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#34 of 43 Old 04-16-2009, 01:59 AM
 
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you aren't allowed to make me cry on my rant thread! :
you aren't allowed to make me cry on your rant thread EITHER!
(thanks, mama for your kind words...)
you rock.

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#35 of 43 Old 04-16-2009, 02:20 AM
 
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Whether you believe in it is luck or God's plan for your life as I do, I definately agree that we cannot control birth. We are responsible for being informed and making the best choices possible. Once that's accomplished, I think we have to just accept the outcome. Hopefully knowing we did our best will give us peace. All kinds of births can be healing births. Even planned c-sections. I hate that women are so often made to feel that what they feel they need is wrong. I hate that so many people feel the need to project their own birth issues onto others. At such a challenge point in life, women should feel nothing but love and support.
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#36 of 43 Old 04-16-2009, 06:20 PM
 
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Man, I've visited this thread a few times and every time I end up crying!

I don't like to talk about birth/pregnancy anymore; shoot, half the time I don't like to talk about being a mother, period. I'm too crunchy and well-informed to be mainstream, but too mainstream by necessity to really feel like a "good" AP mama.

DD was born by unplanned c-section. We couldn't afford a homebirth, maybe things would have gone differently at home, but probably they wouldn't have. Labor started for me right after my water broke and ramped up pretty quickly. I tried to stay home as long as possible, I wanted to eat and sleep before going to the hospital but I couldn't keep down food and the back labor was too intense for me to rest at all. I had meconium staining by the time I got to the hospital; DD's heart rate was perfect the whole time (27 hrs), but they wouldn't let me off the monitor except to use the bathroom. Maybe I should have pushed harder to be allowed to walk around considering that my baby was fine. I stopped progressing at 9cm with a cervical lip; after maybe 8 hours, 2 or 3 of those in screaming agony on pitocin, I gave into a c-section. It wasn't even "traumatic" in the real sense of the word, now that I'm almost four months past it; I wasn't birth-raped, I agreed to everything they did (although maybe I would have disagreed had I been in a different frame of mind), but it still depresses me to think about it, to the point that I'm not having any more kids. I just don't like kids enough to put myself through all that again, especially with how difficult the first 2.5 months with DD were. I spent more than my fair share of days crying and wishing that I'd never chosen to have her. Even now, I miss my sleep. I drink absurd amounts of coffee to function even remotely like a normal person and snap at my poor DH way more that I mean to.

Fortunately I don't know many people with kids or who are planning to have kids anytime soon. If I encountered a "birth know-it-all" at this point, I'd either punch them in the face or end up sobbing and yelling at them. Birth isn't an awesome, empowering experience for everyone and painting it that way is so unfair to those of us for whom it can't be like that. I hate feeling like a failure because of the section. Considering how my labor went, I suspect that birth wouldn't have been amazing or enjoyable for me even if I hadn't had the pit and surgery; for some people it just sucks and all the knowledge and preparation in the world won't change that.
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#37 of 43 Old 04-16-2009, 07:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Girl In The Fire View Post
Both my children were born via c/sect. I am not traumatized, I don't feel bad, I don't feel guilty, and I don't feel remorseful that my children did not pass through my vagina before they took in their first breath of air. I am thankful they took a breath of air period.


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Whether you believe in it is luck or God's plan for your life as I do, I definately agree that we cannot control birth. We are responsible for being informed and making the best choices possible. Once that's accomplished, I think we have to just accept the outcome. Hopefully knowing we did our best will give us peace. All kinds of births can be healing births. Even planned c-sections. I hate that women are so often made to feel that what they feel they need is wrong. I hate that so many people feel the need to project their own birth issues onto others. At such a challenge point in life, women should feel nothing but love and support.


To the OP -
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#38 of 43 Old 04-16-2009, 08:36 PM
 
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Angela,
Thank you so much for starting this thread and for sharing your experience. I can relate 100% to what you are going through. I, like you, worked tirelessly to educate myself on and prepare myself for natural childbirth. DH and I took Bradley Method classes (and did all of our homework, including the daily birthing exercises) and read every single natural birthing book we could get our hands on. To make a long story short, I had to be induced at 41 weeks, 6 days and ended up having an emergency C-section. I cannot tell you how many of my "friends" have made snarky comments about my birth experience; several people have implied or downright said that I didn't actually "need" the C-section. I did NEED the C-section, or I wouldn't have consented to it. I mean really people--I am educated! Like you, I am not a candidate for VBAC and I am tired of people trying to push me into it anyway. I wish people would just leave me alone! I know they're probably trying to help in their own way, but they just make me feel more alone and like more of a failure. I think I am pretty darn strong for being able to labor for 10+ hours after an induction with no pain medicine and to push for 2+ hours (again with no meds) before being wheeled into surgery. After having been through that, I have really changed my tune when it comes to judging how other mamas choose to deliver their babies. With some exceptions of course, I think most of us just do the best we can.

It is so hurtful to me for people to judge my birth experience, especially when I am still so upset about it on an almost daily basis (my baby is now 15 1/2 weeks old). It's not lost on me that all the people who criticize my birth experience had the experience they wanted and planned for. I am truly happy for them, but I didn't get what I wanted and I need support not judgment.

Whew! I feel better now. I guess I just really needed to vent!
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#39 of 43 Old 04-22-2009, 04:16 PM
 
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I was telling a friend of mine the other day, that one of these days the evil side of me might come out and when someone asks me why I have to have a c/s I'm going to say because it's important to me and my husband that my vagina doesn't get stretched out.
I can understand the impulse, but...please don't. I understand why people are hurt by other women armchair quarterbacking their births...but I, personally, have a huge problem dealing with that one. I'd pay money to be "loose", instead of having lost so much sensation in my pelvis, and having gone through 6 months without being able to feel my clitoris...seriously, I would. When I hear people talk about how great c-sections are, because they preserve the vagina, it usually makes me cry...and sometimes, it makes me so angry that I want to claw their faces off.

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Almost nobody wants a c-sec.
Seriously? That's not my experience. I know people who are angry that their doctors didn't do a c-section (these women didn't have any tearing, etc. and none of them say they were traumatized - they're angry that they had to labour), and I've lost track of the number of women who have told me how lucky I am, and how easy I got off, because I've never "had" to give birth.

There are absolutely a fair number of women out there who want a c-section. That doesn't mean anybody has a right to assume one way or the other, but they're out there. (I will say that one of the women who used to tell me how easy I had it finally had a c-section...and has completely changed her mind.)

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
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#40 of 43 Old 04-22-2009, 05:53 PM
 
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And other than the old style of incision (which I was under the impression wasn't done anymore), I am not clear on what would prohibit a woman from having a VBAC - that could be known prior to the pregnancy (like complete previa or abruption that you mentioned).
Most c-sections are done using a lower-uterine transverse incision, but not all of them. Anything other than that, such as a T-shaped incision or a "traditional" up-and-down incision (no longer done routinely but sometimes necessary due to size of the baby, if the baby is extremely wedged into the pelvis and can't be wiggled free, if the c-section was done when baby was very premature, or accidentally if the uterus rips during the surgery which happens on occassion, etc) would make repeat c-sections necessary due to the huge risks to the mother and baby. Problems with the shape or size of the pelvis that would make vaginal birth impossible can also be a cause. A very rare one, but it does happen. Problems with healing from prior c-section or abdominal surgery (like the OP experienced). Placenta Accreta (which is more common in women who have had a c-section before). History of uterine rupture. And so on.

I'm extremely anti-unnecessary-c-section too, but there are definitely situations where it's impossible to birth vaginally. There's no reason why so many American babies need to be born via c-section, a huge number of c-sections are completely unnecessary, but some women really can't give birth vaginally and it's worth recognizing the pain and frustration that can come from being among them, and being told you're wrong/misinformed/not trying hard enough. It's also worth recognizing that not every woman views birth as a life-changing, empowering experience. For some it's just a means to an end and they don't much care HOW baby gets here, so long as baby gets here safely. To them, it's insulting to hear how they just should have tried harder or learned more, because they don't see anything wrong with a c-section so long as their baby goes home healthy in their arms. And, while I fundamentally disagree with this view, I respect it.

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Originally Posted by christyc View Post
I was probably a bit more like that woman in the OP (although I'd like to think I'm a bit more tactful) until I became a doula and began to see much more of the intricacies of birth. After you've seen a few things, it's a lot harder to be so easily dismissive of complexity.
This was my experience too. My views are much more moderate than they used to be.


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sometimes life just sucks, and there is no "reason" for it. sometimes you give your all, and it's not enough. sometimes you try your best, and you fail anyway--and it doesn't mean a thing about you.
Recognizing that a VBAC would put you and your baby at extremely, extremely high risk, and choosing to just provide your baby with the safest, best entry in to the world that you can, is so strong and loving. There's no failure in that, and don't you dare ever let anyone tell you there is. You're being a mom. That's what we're supposed to do, put the needs of our children ahead of our own needs and desires. Good for you, mama. This is NOT a failure, by any stretch of the imagination.

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#41 of 43 Old 04-22-2009, 09:11 PM
 
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I can understand the impulse, but...please don't. I understand why people are hurt by other women armchair quarterbacking their births...but I, personally, have a huge problem dealing with that one. I'd pay money to be "loose", instead of having lost so much sensation in my pelvis, and having gone through 6 months without being able to feel my clitoris...seriously, I would. When I hear people talk about how great c-sections are, because they preserve the vagina, it usually makes me cry...and sometimes, it makes me so angry that I want to claw their faces off.
No worries, I continue to bite my tongue. I'm so sorry to hear about your aftermath

Lisa , married to Dan, mama to IVF miracle Natalie 5/20/09 :
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#42 of 43 Old 04-23-2009, 12:12 AM
 
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Oh - I didn't really think you said it - just had this sudden horrifying vision of someone saying that to me, and went "ACK!".

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
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#43 of 43 Old 04-23-2009, 02:26 AM
 
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I can relate to a lot in this thread. I'm afraid that before DS was born (attempted homebirth, ended in c-section) I was a birth know it all. I was a midwifery student, doula and homebirth advocate. A walking enclopedia of birth knowledge. I got swept up in the belief that birth, is beautiful, empowering and a life altering event for women. It can be, but obviously it isn't always and not for every woman. I used to be very narrow in my thinking (even though I tried to be open minded) I definitely had a bias about childbirth and how I thought women should do it. I now feel that I truly am more open minded after what I went through and I hope that I am more respectful of women's birth choices and feelings even when they differ from mine.

Maria, wife to DH, mama to DS 09/2007, #2 12/2010 and hoping for a
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