Pelvic Organ Prolapse, Support Thread - Page 11 - Mothering Forums

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#301 of 1504 Old 01-01-2008, 01:24 PM
 
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Hi - I found this thread by searching "episiotomy". I read some early posts and late posts but haven't seen any reference to episiotomy and POP.

I had an episiotomy with my first (even though I said no episiotomy in my birth plan). Intercourse was painful for at least 8 months pp. At follow ups I was told everything looked normal. I am 42 and have had perineum pain since midway through my second pregnancy (dd is almost 2). I had a bulging perineum and vulvular vv. I was always told things were normal so I thought I was "carrying low". PP I was again always told everything looked normal, so, I thought it was normal to feel like I'd been hit between the legs after having two children.

During the 5th or 6th month of my second pregnancy I was horrified when I couldn't pass a bowel movement - I knew it was not constipation but the only help I got from my Dr was advice to take pericolase and drink lots of water and use an enema. I almost passed out from dehydration at one point following this advice. I also reported that I couldn't empty my bladder and was told that that problem would go away once I had the baby.

Guess what... it did not go away and I spent a year waiting before I finally saw my Dr again and he said I have neurogenic bladder - totally ignored my complaint of perineum pain. He referred me to a urogyno. Uro dynamics said I had hypercontractile detrusor muscle (inability to empty). I was told the only non surgical option was to use a catheter. Depression/sobbing...

Discovery - when I would use a catheter I would not get any pee out 9 times out of 10 and the times I would the amount was not significant. I developed a burning bladder - but no infection! (After the second time this happened I self diagnosed IC and baking soda helps.) When I had a follow up with this Dr she said that not getting pee out was in fact inconsitent with the diagnosis. So then I saw several urologists - none good - no diagnosis.

To this day I have no diagnosis (from a Dr) for my problems.

After dinner with two friends I learned that it was NOT normal to feel like I had been hit between the legs after having two children and I have since read Saving the Whole Woman. Sorry this is so long - thanks to anyone still reading. I have come to the conclusion (another self diagnosis) that my problems are related to the episiotomy and I have a great deal of anger and sadness at times (right now) when things get bad. I have been going to PT for 3 months. I do Kegles but feel like I have no power there. I did experience some improvement on a high fiber diet, and with the feeble Kegles, but recent travel (lifting suitcases, change in diet..?) seems to have put me back at the beginning!

I am a strong, muscular woman. I will not say no to carrying my kids. I fear the future too as I read others do - what will become of me when I am 60 or 70? I grieve that I will not be able to backpack or mountain bike again. Long term I wonder how will I maintain any upper body strength when blowing my nose blows out my perineum. Every action results in pressure in the core. Biofeedback shows - you move your feet or even breathe - your perineum muscles act.

My fears are:
If I can't excersise how will I maintain general health?
Bones need weight bearing excersises - will I get ostioperosis?
If I can't pee i could end up with worse IC symptoms
If I can't pee I could end up needing a catheter - infections - antibiotics - then my bowel function could worsen..

I fantasize about a device that could hold my bulge back in place - I think I may even go to Home Depot and look for curved PVC pipe. Pessary didn't work for me - I can't even use a Diva cup - irritates my bladder/urethra.

For anyone still reading - can a perineum be fixed with surgery? How can I find a Dr to even acknowledge what has happened to me?
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#302 of 1504 Old 01-01-2008, 01:52 PM
 
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Hugs mama... I'm so sorry you had to find us this way, but glad we're here for you! I hope you find a lot of support and help here at mdc.

About epi and prolapse... there can certainly be a link. My vbac came with a 4th degree tear (tear through vaginal tissue, perineum, and anal sphincter) and I was told the tear increased my chances for prolapse. If a tear through the muscle increases prolapse risk then it makes sense a cut through the muscle could do the same. It just sort of depends how much/what exactly got cut.

Exercise- can you do something like water aerobics or resistance exercises (like the Mummy Tummy exercises that use a resistance band)? That should help you maintain general health and "stress" your bones in a good way while not adding to the problem. And maybe something like belly dance? My OB suggested belly dance as a way to re-integrate the muscles of the perineum that were damaged (the body sort of "ignores" the pain, finding ways to isolate the source of the pain...but this doesn't help the body/psyche heal) as well as good exercise for the pelvic muscles, abs, arms, legs, etc. Does your PT have any ideas?

I'd probably suggest some scar massage for the epi area and gentle massage for the muscles around the perineum in general. Again, the PT should be helping. If there's been no positive change after 3 months maybe you should see a different therapist or ask for a different therapy approach?

Emotionally- maybe consider seeing a therapist, hypnotherapist, counselor, or seeking out a local birth support group? And talking here of course! There are a lot of great mamas here who can liste and help you work through the trauma these memories are causing. Healing the emotional wound may help with the physical.

Hugs again mama, hang in there!

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#303 of 1504 Old 01-01-2008, 03:14 PM
 
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Oh Mommyshine, I'm so sorry for you. Lots of hugs, mama. It sounds like you've been through a lot, far beyond most of us with garden-variety POP. So I don't have any advice, just sympathy.

I guess I can say not to borrow trouble -- no one can tell what tomorrow, or what 50 years from now, will bring. I myself used to suffer a lot from catastrophic thinking -- assuming the worst will happen, and, even worse, assuming that I won't be able to handle it when it does happen -- but I've tried hard to get it under control with cognitive-behavioral therapy. Prolapse has been a challenge to my mental health, though.

But I wouldn't recommend PVC, as it's got some kind of dangerous chemical (I forget what). And it totally sounds like you need a more responsive doctor. I'm so sorry that you've gone so long without a diagnosis and useful treatment.

Hugs!
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#304 of 1504 Old 01-01-2008, 03:56 PM
 
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I am a swimmer - I look forward to the day I can get back to routine swimming - for body health as well as clarity of mind - swimming is medatative for me.

Guitly of catastrophic thinking at times and feeling a victim. Also though at times I am determined to fix myself! I have children and need to set a good example for them.

I got copies of my OB records but haven't been brave enough to find out more about the episiotomy... my husband said it freaked him out when the Dr cut me. I was cut twice too - the second time I asked him if he was using scissors. What really pains me is I fantasized about a home water birth but had no resources. When I was younger I always thought I'd have my baby "in the woods" (not literally). I had instincts for a natual birth - but didn't even know people did it! I feel like I failed myself. Now I have friends who home birth and I am sad that I will never know that joy. One urologist I saw told me not to have any more children. I wasn't planning on it - but knowing I can't makes me sad too.

I'll get past this boo hoo self pitty. I will. Thanks for this support while I am down.
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#305 of 1504 Old 01-02-2008, 12:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by wombatclay View Post
I'm a librarian too.

Hey, cool! I meant to ask you what kind of librarian you are. I'm a public librarian, formerly full-time children's, now part-time adult collection development.

Or is it bad to get this OT on this thread? Sorry I don't know all the MDC rules yet.
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#306 of 1504 Old 01-02-2008, 12:18 AM
 
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Does anyone have the First Aid for Prolapse DVD that is available at Whole Woman Store? What is it like? Is it helpful?

http://www.wholewomanstore.com/prolapse_p/fafp.htm
i do. i think i may even have commented on it before, but i'm happy to repeat - i was expecting and wanting an exercise routine video. it turned out to be mostly christine talking about prolapse (with a very FEW helpful diagrams and props), with exercises demonstrated at one point, but not in a way that is useful for following along with. i like the routine and i do it, but i had to watch it several times and take notes, then do it myself. the info she presents while talking is interesting, but i would rather read it (i don't absorb info so well from lecture and i found her mannerisms somewhat annoying) and might get the book at some point for that reason.

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I think best case scenario is being asymptomatic. As long as you feel okay, it doesn't really matter where your cervix is, ykwim? I'm sure mine is pretty low, but it doesn't bother me (and I refuse to check because I don't want to get depressed if it's low.)
i like your attitude!

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I am a swimmer - I look forward to the day I can get back to routine swimming - for body health as well as clarity of mind - swimming is medatative for me.
i am so sorry for your troubles, mommyshine! have you tried swimming and it was painful or felt damaging? has someone told you that you shouldn't swim? i would think swimming would be one of the best things you could do, since it's horizontal and not jarring.

Wife to the man I never expected, DS born at home '07, '08, baby girl born at home Oct '09!
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#307 of 1504 Old 01-02-2008, 11:50 AM
 
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Nicole- since this is a "support" type thread I think it's probably fine getting to know each other. The mamas behind the organs! Or would that be the mamas above the organs?

Sorry, I'm feeling a bit banged up today... we're selling our house and buying a smaller one outside town but the very nice lady who is buying our house wants to move in on Jan 10th. And we only found out yesterday! So I have to pack the whole house in a week with a toddler and infant who screams non-stop when not in the ergo, my knee is out so walking hurts, and of course my prolapse is responding to the increased stress and ergo-wearing so I'm seriouslly bummed over that. And I've stirred up all sorts of dust/mold/ick while packing so the three of us are sniffly, sneezie, and puffy eyed.

Never rains but it pours, right?

Oh, and although I've been a SAHM since November (2 whole months now ) before that I was a reference librarian at a university. I'm a compulsive data gatherin' mama so give me a shout if you ever need some database digging.

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#308 of 1504 Old 01-02-2008, 03:25 PM
 
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i am so sorry for your troubles, mommyshine! have you tried swimming and it was painful or felt damaging? has someone told you that you shouldn't swim? i would think swimming would be one of the best things you could do, since it's horizontal and not jarring. [/QUOTE]

After my ds and dd were born I had fatigue from pp hypothyroid (2004 & again in 2006), got on the trail of recovery and 2007 was supposed to be my year! Then I found out the (wrong) bladder diagnosis and got depressed (grieved the loss of my bladder really, at that time since I was told I had to use a catheter to empty it) and lost sleep and ended up with an adrenal disorder (fatigue worse than from the hypothyroid). I was unable to do much of anything and pretty muched forced myself to take the kids to the park. Today, thyroid and adrenal fatigue are behind me; bladder works "ok" sometimes but not always, so, I have to re-establish the habit of excersise - which isn't easy since my kids cry at the club day care. A swimming outing is supposed to get rid of stress not be the cause...

I'd like to find a mommy in Atl whom I could swap time with for going to the gym. Maybe now I am not a walking zombie I can find a group. I just found a place before the holidays that will sit for $9/hour and might give them a try.

A positive attitude goes a loooong way (as a negative one does too) - I just kept getting hit when I was down :-( --- 2003 Pregnant, 2004 New baby, no sleep, hypthyroid, 2005 pregnant, 2006 new baby, no sleep, hypothyroid, pneumonia! 2007 wrong diagnosis, tons of appointments, adrenal fatigue...

2008 - swim!!!
No more Hypo - no more adrenal - deal with the pelvic floor pain.

I actually have moments when I think and believe things will get better now that all those hormones are at the right levels again..... until menopause!
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#309 of 1504 Old 01-04-2008, 02:50 AM
 
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Question: Is it possible that one's vaginal wall could completely tear and that is why the bladder is prolapsing?

I had an appointment lined up but had to cancel due to some unexpected travel plans. I actually was examining the entire area more closely and it looks like i may have an actual tear in the vaginal wall. Is this possible? I gave birth 3 months ago and nothing was mentioned at my post-partum visit, the midwife just said that i did have slight prolapse and that I may want to schedule an appointment with a dr at the same clinic. I have an new appointment set up to deal with this but now I am at a loss of what to actually say.

Ahh....I am so freaking out!
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#310 of 1504 Old 01-04-2008, 05:18 PM
 
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Question: Is it possible that one's vaginal wall could completely tear and that is why the bladder is prolapsing?

I had an appointment lined up but had to cancel due to some unexpected travel plans. I actually was examining the entire area more closely and it looks like i may have an actual tear in the vaginal wall. Is this possible? I gave birth 3 months ago and nothing was mentioned at my post-partum visit, the midwife just said that i did have slight prolapse and that I may want to schedule an appointment with a dr at the same clinic. I have an new appointment set up to deal with this but now I am at a loss of what to actually say.

Ahh....I am so freaking out!
I think it's possible that ANY part of our bodies could tear -- cervix, vaginal wall, whatever. Did you have a challenging birth?

I don't know if you'll need to say much to the doctor -- if they're any good. Hopefully you'll get one who will examine you thoroughly (standing up!) and give you honest and progressive options for healing.

And I totally understand the freaking out part! I have given myself absolute fits several times over this prolapse journey. Hugs to you, mama. Hang in there! Wait and see what the doctor says. When is your appointment?
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#311 of 1504 Old 01-04-2008, 09:06 PM
 
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I think it's possible that ANY part of our bodies could tear -- cervix, vaginal wall, whatever. Did you have a challenging birth?

When is your appointment?
That's what is odd. The birth went extremely well. No drugs, no forceps, no epi, I had a bit of a swollen cervix so there was a little directed pushing but frankly it was more encouragement not "forced." I bled for several weeks afterward but that was exactly like my first birth. Argh, I would think that I would have felt a major tear.

My appointment is next week. Nobody I know in real life seems to deal with this. I have several friends who have had MAJOR tearing, stitches etc and they seem to think that if there is a tear it should be easily fixable...I am not so certain. It is hard also because I am not sure exactly how much of this is just adjusting to "new look" I have times where everything is fine and I feel like this will all work out but frankly I miss my old body.
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#312 of 1504 Old 01-05-2008, 09:48 PM
 
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Hi there!

I found out my bladder had fallen 2 weeks after my son was born - 10 lbs 5 oz. I'm guessing it is a grade 2 or 3. My doctor didn't say, nor did I ask, since I was in complete shock. I went through a serious depression for about 2 weeks, and basically shut down. I am 28 years old - and felt my body was failing me! I am a nursing mother, and have not stopped yet. My doctor said once I stop nursing my estrogen would return, and the chances of it healing itself were good. He told me it might take up to a year. Has anyone had their bladder fix itself? I don't want to stop nursing if there is no chance of it getting better without surgery. My son has milk protein allergy, and I don't want him on formula, nor do I want to pay for the expensive special formula. I am doing kegals like mad, even bought the kegalmaster, and I am not overweight. I go next week for my 6 week check up, and want answers! Anyone have any helpful info or questions I should ask my doctor? I hate to be vain but I can't deal with this forever mentally or physically, and fear I will have to opt for surgery. I am a PE teacher and this is going to interfere with my daily life and teaching!

Can anyone give me some helpful answers? Any help or questions I should ask my Dr. would also be helpful!

Thank you in advance!
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#313 of 1504 Old 01-06-2008, 01:31 AM
 
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Hi there!

I found out my bladder had fallen 2 weeks after my son was born - 10 lbs 5 oz. I'm guessing it is a grade 2 or 3. My doctor didn't say, nor did I ask, since I was in complete shock. I went through a serious depression for about 2 weeks, and basically shut down. I am 28 years old - and felt my body was failing me! I am a nursing mother, and have not stopped yet. My doctor said once I stop nursing my estrogen would return, and the chances of it healing itself were good. He told me it might take up to a year. Has anyone had their bladder fix itself? I don't want to stop nursing if there is no chance of it getting better without surgery. My son has milk protein allergy, and I don't want him on formula, nor do I want to pay for the expensive special formula. I am doing kegals like mad, even bought the kegalmaster, and I am not overweight. I go next week for my 6 week check up, and want answers! Anyone have any helpful info or questions I should ask my doctor? I hate to be vain but I can't deal with this forever mentally or physically, and fear I will have to opt for surgery. I am a PE teacher and this is going to interfere with my daily life and teaching!

Can anyone give me some helpful answers? Any help or questions I should ask my Dr. would also be helpful!

Thank you in advance!
Hugs to you! It's really horrifying and depressing to first discover a prolapse. I couldn't even bring myself to investigate my own body for months and months, and beforehand I was always really comfortable with myself. But now I'm investigating the state of affairs in there all the time.

So you're only five weeks postpartum? From a logical perspective, it's way too soon to start thinking destructive thoughts about "dealing with it forever" or "no chance of it getting better without surgery." Take it easy on yourself physically and mentally. Be kind to yourself. A lot changes for the better in the months after giving birth, so you can probably expect some improvement there.

From what I've read, too many Kegels too soon can make a prolapse worse -- those muscles grow tired easily from overwork, which can make it harder for them to support your poor sagging organs. Maybe you shouldn't be doing them "like mad." After you've given yourself a chance to heal naturally, if there's still an issue your doctor can refer you for pelvic floor physical therapy, which (according to abstracts I've read on PubMed) is supposed to be extremely effective for bladder prolapse and associated incontinence. But PROPER exercise is the key.

Here's my real advice: as you'll hear me saying time and time again if you go back and read this thread, have your prolapse exam while standing! It makes a world of difference for proper diagnosis.

And speaking for myself, I wouldn't stop nursing such a young baby for any reason. Especially if your son has allergies, he's going to need all the benefits breastmilk can bring him. It's just another gift you're giving him -- possibly at some small expense to yourself, but a lot of parenthood is like that! I'm still nursing my son at the same time I'm trying to get pregnant with #2, so I'm committed despite any cost to my multiple prolapses.

Hang in there. It's a terrible feeling that your body is failing you, but it's really just this one small aspect of your body that is stretched out of shape. It's hard not to focus on it, I know -- but you're not alone! Hugs.
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#314 of 1504 Old 01-06-2008, 01:59 AM
 
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My advice: when you go in for your exam, make sure they examine you while you're standing! My prolapses seem to disappear as soon as I lie on my back, so my OB missed them for several years. (Like I said, .)
This is great advice, I go in for 6 week check up on Tuesday (Jan 8th)... I am anxious to see what they say.

I do sometimes feel pain (more like an ache) there. But it is mostly better.

Kimberly
(Mama to West (11/07) Mabel Kelly 10/02/09)
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#315 of 1504 Old 01-06-2008, 02:15 AM
 
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I haven't read this whole thread but read it in the beginning. That led me to Whole Woman and lots of useful information. Thanks! My question now is: has anyone used a V2 Supporter for bladder prolapse? I don't want surgery, but it is so uncomfortable to walk or bend over, or on the initial sit down. BTW, sitting on an exercise ball while at the computer helps to comfortably push it back up for a while. I want to get back to exercising but am afraid of straining things further. I know if there's any wisdom here about this, you mamas will have it for me.
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#316 of 1504 Old 01-06-2008, 09:47 AM
 
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Hi there!

I found out my bladder had fallen 2 weeks after my son was born - 10 lbs 5 oz. I'm guessing it is a grade 2 or 3. My doctor didn't say, nor did I ask, since I was in complete shock. I went through a serious depression for about 2 weeks, and basically shut down. I am 28 years old - and felt my body was failing me! I am a nursing mother, and have not stopped yet. My doctor said once I stop nursing my estrogen would return, and the chances of it healing itself were good. He told me it might take up to a year. Has anyone had their bladder fix itself? I don't want to stop nursing if there is no chance of it getting better without surgery. My son has milk protein allergy, and I don't want him on formula, nor do I want to pay for the expensive special formula. I am doing kegals like mad, even bought the kegalmaster, and I am not overweight. I go next week for my 6 week check up, and want answers! Anyone have any helpful info or questions I should ask my doctor? I hate to be vain but I can't deal with this forever mentally or physically, and fear I will have to opt for surgery. I am a PE teacher and this is going to interfere with my daily life and teaching!

Can anyone give me some helpful answers? Any help or questions I should ask my Dr. would also be helpful!

Thank you in advance!
I remember feeling the same way when I first realized what was going on. Now at 5 months PP I never really notice it. Sometimes when I have a bowell movement but that's it! If you go back and search this thread you will see how upset I was. Hang in there, you are much too early to make any decisions.
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#317 of 1504 Old 01-06-2008, 01:24 PM
 
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I haven't read this whole thread but read it in the beginning. That led me to Whole Woman and lots of useful information. Thanks! My question now is: has anyone used a V2 Supporter for bladder prolapse? I don't want surgery, but it is so uncomfortable to walk or bend over, or on the initial sit down. BTW, sitting on an exercise ball while at the computer helps to comfortably push it back up for a while. I want to get back to exercising but am afraid of straining things further. I know if there's any wisdom here about this, you mamas will have it for me.
I used a fembrace (which is similar to a v2 supporter) and it really helped me with doing everyday activities comfortably. It's ugly and a little embarrassing - my husband called it my chastity belt - and you can't wear it under all types of clothes because it will show through. But it was a life-saver for me in the beginning to be able to take my kids to the park without feeling like everything was just going to fall out.
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#318 of 1504 Old 01-06-2008, 02:14 PM
 
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Hugs to you! It's really horrifying and depressing to first discover a prolapse. I couldn't even bring myself to investigate my own body for months and months, and beforehand I was always really comfortable with myself. But now I'm investigating the state of affairs in there all the time.

So you're only five weeks postpartum? From a logical perspective, it's way too soon to start thinking destructive thoughts about "dealing with it forever" or "no chance of it getting better without surgery." Take it easy on yourself physically and mentally. Be kind to yourself. A lot changes for the better in the months after giving birth, so you can probably expect some improvement there.

From what I've read, too many Kegels too soon can make a prolapse worse -- those muscles grow tired easily from overwork, which can make it harder for them to support your poor sagging organs. Maybe you shouldn't be doing them "like mad." After you've given yourself a chance to heal naturally, if there's still an issue your doctor can refer you for pelvic floor physical therapy, which (according to abstracts I've read on PubMed) is supposed to be extremely effective for bladder prolapse and associated incontinence. But PROPER exercise is the key.

Here's my real advice: as you'll hear me saying time and time again if you go back and read this thread, have your prolapse exam while standing! It makes a world of difference for proper diagnosis.

And speaking for myself, I wouldn't stop nursing such a young baby for any reason. Especially if your son has allergies, he's going to need all the benefits breastmilk can bring him. It's just another gift you're giving him -- possibly at some small expense to yourself, but a lot of parenthood is like that! I'm still nursing my son at the same time I'm trying to get pregnant with #2, so I'm committed despite any cost to my multiple prolapses.

Hang in there. It's a terrible feeling that your body is failing you, but it's really just this one small aspect of your body that is stretched out of shape. It's hard not to focus on it, I know -- but you're not alone! Hugs.
Why is key to be standing while you get an exam? Honestly my prolapsed is only really noticeable while sitting on the toilet. When I am standing it does not reach my opening. Are the Level/Grades done while standing or anther way? I can always feel it; it is like a tampon that is not in correctly.

Thank you for the advice. It is a comfort to know I am not the only one. My own mother had not even heard of this happening before. I have talked and told most everyone, I'm not ashamed. Just can't believe no one talks about it. But again, has anyone heard or know someone that this has resolved on its own? My Dr. seemed pretty confident when I saw him at 2 weeks it would. But most everything I read is negative on it "fixing" itself.

Far as surgery, why have so many of you opted out of this option? Are there too many risks? I'm just trying to explore and understand every option possible.

I guess a plus is so far I do not have any urine leaking, and do not have any problem using the restroom. My Dr. was actually surprised I didn't. But all is good so far in that area.

What would be some key questions to ask my Dr.? After this appointment I am thinking of switching to a woman Dr. I told my Dr. many time this baby felt very big, and he totally ignored me. If he would have listened perhaps this might not have happened to me. My husband says I am going through the stages of grieving and I'm at ANGER now!

I just want the day to come when I do not think about this at all. It is always on my mind, and I hate that!
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#319 of 1504 Old 01-06-2008, 03:22 PM
 
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Why is key to be standing while you get an exam? Honestly my prolapsed is only really noticeable while sitting on the toilet. When I am standing it does not reach my opening. Are the Level/Grades done while standing or anther way? I can always feel it; it is like a tampon that is not in correctly.
Somewhere back a few pages in this thread I quoted an abstract from a medical journal that discussed how much "lower" prolapses are while standing (and with a full bladder) and suggested doctors diagnose them that way.

While you're standing and look at yourself with a hand mirror you don't see your bladder peeking out, kind of pink and bulgy? And you don't have urinary frequency or leaking? The tampon feeling I know quite well, but I always thought that was my cervix rather than my bladder, as it comes and goes depending on my cycle as my cervix moves up and down. Maybe you have a uterine prolapse. Where is your cervix these days?

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But again, has anyone heard or know someone that this has resolved on its own?
Yeah.

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Far as surgery, why have so many of you opted out of this option? Are there too many risks? I'm just trying to explore and understand every option possible.
Again, if you go back through the thread you'll read posts from women who have had surgery. I'd also suggest you do a medical journal search on forms of bladder prolapse treatment, including surgery, on PubMed. It seemed to me to have a quite positive non-surgical prognosis.

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What would be some key questions to ask my Dr.? After this appointment I am thinking of switching to a woman Dr. I told my Dr. many time this baby felt very big, and he totally ignored me. If he would have listened perhaps this might not have happened to me.
It's terrible to feel that your doctor is ignoring you. Do you think something about your medical treatment or birth caused the prolapse? Did you push for a long time on your back, or have a forceps delivery? I am very slim, never cough, had an eight and a half pound baby, had a 100% natural birth, only pushed for 30 minutes (on my back, though ), only had a second-degree tear, and ended up with a uterine and bladder prolapse anyway (and apparently a rectal prolapse that's about to happen). Stuff happens, you know?

And life keeps happening, too. I've mostly stopped obsessing about my prolapses and am now obsessing about getting pregnant. When that happens, I suppose I'll return to obsessing about how the pregnancy is effecting my prolapses! (Especially if the first trimester is as uncomfortable as my prolapsed friends have told me.)
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#320 of 1504 Old 01-06-2008, 04:25 PM
 
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Hugs mama... I think you'll see in this thread that everyone has "good" body days and "bad" and everyone of us has had total "oh my gods my body is falling apart" moments. Prolapse is so unexpected and hits in such a personal manner. It's tough, but give yourself time. As one mama here pointed out, some medical traditions wont even diagnose a prolapse as "permanent" until a year pp since so much changes in that year. At 5 weeks pp you have so many organs moving and hormone levels shifting... a lot can change.

Surgery- you'll find in this thread and in the whole woman site some of the reasons surgery is a bit limited. Basically, the current surgical options usually require "re-doing" every 8-10 years even when the initial surgery is successful. Many surgeons wont operate if you plan on having more children (future pregnancy will "un do" the correction) and some wont operate if you are breastfeeding due to the hormone levels maintained during nursing. The surgery itself isn't terribly "modern"... as younger women experience prolapse more frequently new techniques are being devised to treat the condition, so waiting another 5 years or so might be a good idea in terms of getting the best surgical solution. And surgery is a "no do over" situation. If you try all the non-surgical options and there's no relief then you can try surgery. But if you start with surgery and it doesn't work then you'll need to try all those non-surgical solutions while also trying to heal from any damage the repair surgery caused.

Like Nicole mentioned... the "tampon feeling" is often a uterine prolapse. How high is your cervix and does it move a lot when you "bear down" or when you check at different times of the day? My bladder prolapse is mild to moderate, my uterine prolapse moderate and although I can't always feel the tampon sensation these days (I felt it all the time the first few months, now just at certain times) I can always see my bladder with a mirror and can feel it just inside the vaginal opening.

There are exercise routines/programs designed for prolapsed women or that work well for women with POP (the whole woman, tupler technique, svaroopa/kripalu yoga, beyond kegels, the c.o.r.e., etc) and physical therapists who work specifically with pelvic floor issues. You might ask your dr about this, and see what is covered by your insurance. It sounds like your current dr isn't paying attention so I hope your new dr is a better listener! And we're here too... I know this thread has been a HUGE help for me...

Hugs again...I'm so sorry you need this information. (But congrats on your new babe!)

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#321 of 1504 Old 01-06-2008, 05:01 PM
 
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I was looking around on the internet for something non prolaspe-related - about Witch Hazel - and I came across this interesting tidbit... (The website is http://health.howstuffworks.com/witc...l-remedies.htm)

"Almost all pharmacies carry some type of witch hazel preparation in the form of lotions, hemorrhoidal pads, and suppositories. Besides their use topically for hemorrhoids and veins, witch hazel lotions are useful on rough, swollen, gardener's or carpenter's hands. You can also use witch hazel internally to treat varicose veins, hemorrhoids, or a prolapsed uterus, although not the witch hazel/isopropyl alcohol preparation frequently found in drug stores."

Has anyone heard anything about this? How exactly would this help, do you think? I'm a little confused as to how you would put a Witch Hazel lotion on your uterus - maybe on the cervix?? It sounds kind of dangerous! Any thoughts?
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#322 of 1504 Old 01-06-2008, 06:57 PM
 
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Interesting... looks like they are talking about a decoction that you drink. Also looks like there is a homeopathic/essence type treatment (http://www.herballoveshop.com/product.asp?PID=25935).

http://www.henriettesherbal.com/ecle...hamamelis.html

http://www.nyctophilia.net/plants/witchhazel.htm

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#323 of 1504 Old 01-06-2008, 08:12 PM
 
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Hi there!

I found out my bladder had fallen 2 weeks after my son was born - 10 lbs 5 oz. I'm guessing it is a grade 2 or 3. My doctor didn't say, nor did I ask, since I was in complete shock. I went through a serious depression for about 2 weeks, and basically shut down. I am 28 years old - and felt my body was failing me! I am a nursing mother, and have not stopped yet. My doctor said once I stop nursing my estrogen would return, and the chances of it healing itself were good. He told me it might take up to a year. Has anyone had their bladder fix itself? I don't want to stop nursing if there is no chance of it getting better without surgery. My son has milk protein allergy, and I don't want him on formula, nor do I want to pay for the expensive special formula.
i completely sympathize and was in a very similar position 10 months ago! i am much better now, although i do not think the prolapse has completely resolved itself (i'll find out the reality at my appointment next week, i guess), i really don't have major day-to-day symptoms. (and i'm still seriously nursing.) i don't think you should just ignore it and hope for the best, but i do think MODERATE kegeling and avoiding heavy lifting are good ideas. i'm also really beginning to wonder if prolapse immediately postpartum is actually pretty normal and tends to resolve itself pretty well. i bet a lot of women feel something is "odd", but never get diagnosed and never realize what it is/was.

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I am doing kegals like mad, even bought the kegalmaster
anyone else have the kegelmaster? i'm seriously considering getting it, since i do have trouble feeling the kegels consistently, if that makes sense.



i also want to say that i read here ages ago about lifting your butt off the seat when having a bowel movement and i thought "hmph, who wants to do that?" silly me. the first time i tried it, i noticed a HUGE difference in the feeling. highly recommend it. (i lean forward a lot, too, i can't remember if that was mentioned.)

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#324 of 1504 Old 01-06-2008, 10:24 PM
 
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Like Nicole mentioned... the "tampon feeling" is often a uterine prolapse. How high is your cervix and does it move a lot when you "bear down" or when you check at different times of the day? My bladder prolapse is mild to moderate, my uterine prolapse moderate and although I can't always feel the tampon sensation these days (I felt it all the time the first few months, now just at certain times) I can always see my bladder with a mirror and can feel it just inside the vaginal opening.

I'm not really sure where my cervix is suppose to be, but it is my middle finger away right now. Is that normal? I don't feel like that part of me hanging out or down to far. I guess I'm not sure where it should be. I assume it is still healing to some extent form giving birth.

It is so weird I have my good moments and then my bad. One moment I want to throw in the towel with nursing to see if I can heal myself. Then the next moment I'm like this is not that bad, and I want to give my son what is best for him, and what I did for my daughter. I just hate the feeling of not being normal. My husband doesn't seem to mind, and says that the "sex" part feels the same as before. That was good to hear!

I've been enjoying reading the rest of the thread...it has been helpful too. I'm sure it will take me a couple days, chasing a 2 year old and nursing a colicky 6 week old, is a lot to handle. How do you all do it with more than two!

So do most of you think my DR is correct in saying it could take a year to heal? Or do most of you think longer or shorter? Does anyone have a example of best case scenario? Does anyone else fear other things will start falling also? I am terrified my rectum will. Most of my trauma was in that area. My Dr. also told me that it would not get any worse. Since it is not bulging out of me; isn't that a false statement?

Thank you all for help. No one but you all seems to understand what I'm going through. In fact I think most people are sick of me talking about it, since they have no idea what I am going through!

I hope to come back Thursday with more info from my Dr. Wish me luck ladies! When I saw him 4 weeks ago, I had a mental break down afterwards. So it can't get much worse!
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#325 of 1504 Old 01-07-2008, 02:05 PM
 
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Hi Ladies
May I join you? I have a self diagnosed bladder prolapse. I am *assuming* it isn't that bad because my midwife didn't even mention it at my pp checkup : . That does make me wonder if it is quite common. I discovered mine by doing a little investigating with the mirror because of a major bulging feeling while jogging. I think it is getting better, but if I wear DD too long or jog, it is bothersome. It is also bothersome after sex, which I find curious. So, I am doing some kegels, but want to look into other pelvic floor exercises that might help.

Does anyone know what really causes prolapse? I read on another thread that weak abs and back muscles might, but I had/have awesome back and ab muscles. I had some issues with pubic symphisis (sp? NAK) during pregnancy and wonder if that is related. I had a drug free birth, but pushed on my back, and only for about 25 mins (but that is a whole other can of worms). Honestly, I am a little scared to give birth again for fear of it getting worse.

Sorry that others are going through this, but it is great to find you aren't alone!
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#326 of 1504 Old 01-07-2008, 07:15 PM
 
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i completely sympathize and was in a very similar position 10 months ago! i am much better now, although i do not think the prolapse has completely resolved itself (i'll find out the reality at my appointment next week, i guess), i really don't have major day-to-day symptoms. (and i'm still seriously nursing.) i don't think you should just ignore it and hope for the best, but i do think MODERATE kegeling and avoiding heavy lifting are good ideas. i'm also really beginning to wonder if prolapse immediately postpartum is actually pretty normal and tends to resolve itself pretty well. i bet a lot of women feel something is "odd", but never get diagnosed and never realize what it is/was.)
I totally agree. After the birth of my daughter I felt something was wrong, but that feeling eventually went away. I remember thinking everything inside of me felt really "fleshy". So who knows maybe I had this to some degree with my first. It eventually went away, and I was normal. This time it is worse, but hoping it resolves itself on its own. May I ask you if you are having a period while nursing? This would produce estrogen...correct? I did not have a period until I compleatly stopped with my first, so wondering if there is a connection there. Hearing that yours has somewhat healed itself, has giving me a new found hope. I know we are all different, but WOW that was nice to hear. Was yours a proplapse bladder? Please share with us what your Dr. says about how you have healed. Good luck to you my dear!


anyone else have the kegelmaster? i'm seriously considering getting it, since i do have trouble feeling the kegels consistently, if that makes sense.

It is to early to tell if it is doing anything, I have been only using it for about a week. But is does work on letting you know you are doing the kegal correctly. I like it. It is a bit expensive, but if it helps me avoid surgery then it is worth every penny!

i also want to say that i read here ages ago about lifting your butt off the seat when having a bowel movement and i thought "hmph, who wants to do that?" silly me. the first time i tried it, i noticed a HUGE difference in the feeling. highly recommend it. (i lean forward a lot, too, i can't remember if that was mentioned.

Good advice, will try this to help not "push" to hard!

Again good luck at the Dr. I truely hope things are better, and praying it is gone for you.
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#327 of 1504 Old 01-07-2008, 09:18 PM
 
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I'm not really sure where my cervix is suppose to be, but it is my middle finger away right now. Is that normal? I don't feel like that part of me hanging out or down to far. I guess I'm not sure where it should be. I assume it is still healing to some extent form giving birth.
I suppose "normal" is different for every woman, and different at different phases of fertility and reproduction. But middle finger length doesn't sound prolapsed to me, especially so soon postpartum.

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So do most of you think my DR is correct in saying it could take a year to heal? Or do most of you think longer or shorter? Does anyone have a example of best case scenario? Does anyone else fear other things will start falling also? I am terrified my rectum will. Most of my trauma was in that area. My Dr. also told me that it would not get any worse. Since it is not bulging out of me; isn't that a false statement?
I'm sorry that I don't know about periods of healing. But I think we agreed a while ago that "best case scenario" was asymptomatic -- it doesn't really matter to me what my organs are doing, as long as they aren't causing me any problems! As far as your thinking that your doctor saying your prolapse "would not get any worse" might be a falsehood, I think you might be confusing it with "could not be any worse." His statement might not be false -- maybe he thinks your prolapse really isn't going to get any worse, although clearly other women do have worse prolapses. It's not necessarily going to keep sagging until you see that bulging. Does that make sense? I often ask myself if my organs will continue to prolapse if I spare them future damage -- then I like to remember that I read on WebMD that this is not an inherently progressive condition.

So I personally resolve to do all I can to prevent further damage -- I'm going to PT starting on the 18th, I've been avoiding constipation, if I need uterine support during pregnancy I'll consider a pessary, and I'm hoping for a labor and delivery that allows me to "breathe" my baby out in a position that protects my pelvic floor.

But yeah, I'm afraid that my rectum is going to prolapse anyway. My OB already said the tissue was very thin, quite stretched out, so it's hard not to feel that prolapse is inevitable. But what am I going to do, not have another baby? That's not an acceptable trade-off for me. I'd agree to suffer far worse bodily injury in exchange for motherhood, and I imagine most of us would agree.
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#328 of 1504 Old 01-07-2008, 09:32 PM
 
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Hi Ladies
May I join you? I have a self diagnosed bladder prolapse. I am *assuming* it isn't that bad because my midwife didn't even mention it at my pp checkup : . That does make me wonder if it is quite common. I discovered mine by doing a little investigating with the mirror because of a major bulging feeling while jogging. I think it is getting better, but if I wear DD too long or jog, it is bothersome. It is also bothersome after sex, which I find curious. So, I am doing some kegels, but want to look into other pelvic floor exercises that might help.
Did you have your exam on your back, or standing? (Man, do I feel like a broken record! Sorry, everyone, for repeating myself so darn much.) My OB and a midwife both missed my two prolapses at three different exams because they only examined me on my back. So I missed a lot of opportunity to help my body heal.

But I also think prolapse is quite common, especially soon after giving birth, which makes me think it springs back into place by itself usually. Not in every case, though, so it makes sense to investigate what activities and positions might make prolapse worse. There are Web sites and books recommended elsewhere on this thread.

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Does anyone know what really causes prolapse? I read on another thread that weak abs and back muscles might, but I had/have awesome back and ab muscles. I had some issues with pubic symphisis (sp? NAK) during pregnancy and wonder if that is related. I had a drug free birth, but pushed on my back, and only for about 25 mins (but that is a whole other can of worms). Honestly, I am a little scared to give birth again for fear of it getting worse.!
I don't think they know what causes it, or even what's best for treating it! It doesn't seem very well studied. When you read the "checklists" of conditions that might contribute to the development of prolapse, I seldom have any of them -- except for constipation. It might just be one of the random and fairly minor ways the body gives out. I say "minor" because although it's a big deal to us as sufferers, prolapse doesn't kill the woman who has it, and she can continue to have children -- so as far as nature is concerned, it isn't that big of a deal.

I'm a little nervous about pregnancy and birth myself, although if you look at my signature I'm clearly not THAT nervous! I've been comforted to find that some studies have learned that it isn't BIRTH so much as PREGNANCY that gets a prolapse started, although a traumatic birth can cause a lot of damage in a short period of time. Women who have had C-sections can still have pelvic organ prolapse.
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#329 of 1504 Old 01-07-2008, 10:28 PM
 
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Yeah Nicole, I'm not that nervous either - we are planning to TTC when June turns 1.

I guess I am more bummed about having trouble jogging, babywearing, and hiking. We are leaving for New Zealand for a few months next week, and I just realized I won't be able to hike like normal.

I had my exam on my back, but reclining the prolapse is still there. Not to mention, after I checked myself out after my exam, my urethra was open (!) and she didn't mention that either. That has since resolved itself, but I just feel a little let down that she didn't tell me at the exam.

Anywho, glad I have some folks to discuss this with.
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#330 of 1504 Old 01-07-2008, 10:33 PM
 
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Does anyone know what really causes prolapse? I read on another thread that weak abs and back muscles might, but I had/have awesome back and ab muscles. I had some issues with pubic symphisis (sp? NAK) during pregnancy and wonder if that is related. I had a drug free birth, but pushed on my back, and only for about 25 mins (but that is a whole other can of worms). Honestly, I am a little scared to give birth again for fear of it getting worse.
I think it's a structural defect in our anatomy. I know so many women who have the classic childbirth risk factors - purple pushing, big babies, 4th degree tears/episiotomies - and who have no issues. And then there are c-section mothers with prolapse. Walking upright means that our organs are fighting against gravity constantly and I think some people have pelvises that support these organs better than mine does.

Not to minimize the risk factors, or to say we shouldn't avoid all of the things that could make us prolapse, but I also think that (for me) I can't put the blame only on the way I gave birth, or the size of my babies. I put the blame where it belongs - on my mother (joke). But I am going to talk seriously to my daughter when she starts thinking about babies about her options and potential consequences.
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