Pelvic Organ Prolapse, Support Thread - Page 14 - Mothering Forums

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#391 of 1504 Old 03-03-2008, 10:27 PM
 
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I'm sorry you need us Kanga, but glad you found us. I really wish more care providers were up front about prolapse. My otherwise amazing OBs were essentially the same... sort of "it's a bit droopy but totally normal" until I pushed them a bit more about what I was experiencing. Yes, I know it's "normal" to a certain extent, but it doesn't really change the fact of the matter. I'm glad your prolapse is on the minor end... a lot of mamas here have had great results in toning up and pulling in their prolapses!

Bio feedback uses machines/sensors that help you really focus on parts of your body. For example, when you are relaxed you generally have better blood flow to your extremities and as a result your extremities are warmer. A bio feedback tool can be held in the hand and the tool will will make a tone that changes as the temp of your skin changes. The more relaxed, the warmer the skin, the "lower" the tone. The tone provides the "feedback" that helps you focus on and control an internal process. In this example, the goal is to relax and the increased skin temp is just the "marker" being used to track how relaxed you are.

But there are tons of different uses for bio-feedback! There's a wikipedia article here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biofeedback that looks at it from a couple different angles.

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#392 of 1504 Old 03-03-2008, 10:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wombatclay View Post
Has anyone used an IUD with a minor uterine prolapse?

Not that I'm feeling up to the baby making activities but I'm trying to think long term! I tried using a tampon and the various stages of "inner organ out" made it wicked uncomfortable. I already knew my diva wasn't going to work but I'd hoped other things would be more comfy.

(and thanks threadbey!)
i don't have personal experience with an iud, but i can no longer use a diva cup or regular tampon with the cystocele. the sea sponge works great as a tampon though. i have also heard of some mamas that use the sea sponge as a makeshift pessary during high impact exercise.

and thank you, threadby for your very comprehensive and helpful post.
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#393 of 1504 Old 03-03-2008, 11:37 PM
 
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Well, after reading a few pages of this post just out of curiosity I realize that I have POP. All the pieces are coming together and I'm a little mad at my midwife for not talking to me about it. I distinctly remember her examining me at 6 weeks and asking "does this bother you?" and I didn't know what she was talking about and asked her "what?" and she said, "well, if it doesn't bother you, you don't need to worry about it." And I've always wondered what the heck she was referring to. This is it for sure. I feel a small bulge, I have urinary incontinence, I have to shift to void completely, apply counter pressure sometimes. I always just chalked it up to part of having had kids.

What is bio-feed back and how can I get started?


Many of us feel betrayed that our MW's or OB's or even our mothers never even told us this was a remote possibility.

This thread has turned that around for me. I'm so grateful.

I believe this is a very common condition and can effect women who have had NO children.

Its important to teach our daughters about what POP is and ways to avoid it. Heck, I'm telling my three yr old not to strain on the toilet and to bend over when she coughs or sneezes. I've heard of mothers teaching their newly adolescent dd's how to keagle (sp?).

Rest assured that P.O.P. is fairly normal. We can manage our condition and its very possible to become symptom free.

Have you seen www.wholewomen.com yet?

You asked about biofeed back. Are you talking about the vaginal tens unit?

I used it at my urogynocologist back in 01 when I was dx with IC and only told I had a "dropped bladder" not a cystocele or even prolapse. I liked the TENS unit. Its expensive tho. They charged me -- get this -- $300.00 per session!!!
I tried to buy it from the UK but they refused to sell one to me. They said it wasn't FDA approved. THAT SUCKS. Actually it makes NO sense. The doctor used it, so it is FDA approved, right? Well, hell, vitamins aren't even FDA approved!!!:

It'd be neat if I could buy the unit flat out and use it at home for my own therapy. It does work. In my case it was to re-train my nerves. With IC one feels like they have to void ALL. THE. TIME!!! its aggravating. But after 9 yrs I have gotten use to it. Some days are better than others. I've learned to tell the difference from that constant irritation to the actual need to urinate.

I wonder if the TENS unit would tighten the vagina...???

I hope things get better for you.
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#394 of 1504 Old 03-04-2008, 02:54 AM
 
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subbing to learn more, both for myself and for my clients, I will go back and read thread this week!
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#395 of 1504 Old 03-04-2008, 02:58 AM
 
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subbing to learn more, both for myself and for my clients, I will go back and read thread this week!
Good for you!!!

Glad you've joined us!!!
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#396 of 1504 Old 03-04-2008, 10:12 AM
 
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They wont let you buy the TENS? Grrrr.... I just ran into the same thing actually, I tried to buy an epi-no from Canada and they can't sell to the US.

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#397 of 1504 Old 03-04-2008, 11:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wombatclay View Post
Has anyone used an IUD with a minor uterine prolapse?

Not that I'm feeling up to the baby making activities but I'm trying to think long term! I tried using a tampon and the various stages of "inner organ out" made it wicked uncomfortable. I already knew my diva wasn't going to work but I'd hoped other things would be more comfy.

(and thanks threadbey!)

hmmm, seems in my embarrassingly long post i failed to mention that i had an iud inserted at 7 weeks postpartum! i was still VERY prolapsey at that point. the insertion went well and i only had mild spotting/cramping for the first day or two, as i remember it. i do find my periods are heavier for the first two or three days of my cycle, but overall i have been very happy with the iud. i don't think that the prolapse affected it or that it affected the prolapse.

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#398 of 1504 Old 03-05-2008, 12:32 AM
 
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They wont let you buy the TENS? Grrrr.... I just ran into the same thing actually, I tried to buy an epi-no from Canada and they can't sell to the US.
Wow, thats crazy!

Why? Whats the problem with selling products to the US citizens? We buy FDA non-approved goods all the time! epi-no can't harm you, so whats the big deal anyways? American's are already using the TENS unit in their doctors clinics and even in their own homes (not sure about the vaginal tens).

Does customs have to open packages being sent to the States?

I wonder if I could hook up w/ someone from the UK, give them the money to buy the product and have them ship it to me. They said they can't sell it to US citizens. But a UK or a Canadian citizen can and all they would be doing is shipping the goods. There isn't anything illegal about that is there?
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#399 of 1504 Old 03-05-2008, 06:20 AM
 
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Thanks for the support. I've checked out the wholewoman web site and found their instructions for self examination very enlightening (so THAT'S what that is!).

As far as bio-feedback goes, I came across this product on Andrea Robertson's Birth International web site:

http://www.acegraphics.com.au/product/equip/be015.html


Anyone familiar with it? Apparently it's not available from the manufacturer where I live, but it looks like I could just order it from the birth international site. I thought it would really help me figure out what's going on when I'm trying to do Kegels...

I'm also focusing on that posture suggestion at wholewoman when I walk all over town...
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#400 of 1504 Old 03-08-2008, 11:23 PM
 
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Wow, ladies! I am so excited to find this post. I just went to the Uro-Gyno yesterday for the first time and expected to hear that I just needed to work on my Kegel exercises (which I am really bad about doing ). She tell me I have cytocele (sp?), rectocele, AND I need a sling. I was actually up for the sling part because I can't play racquetball or run or sneeze of course without contorting my body to prevent leakage. But the idea of having my vagina sliced open anterior and posterior to push things back into place has me more than a little scared. This all does explain why I haven't been able to keep a tampon in since my son was born 2 1/2 yrs ago! I couldn't figure that one out before. But if I had the surgery, I'm worried about how things would feel later during intercourse. Plus, I'm a Landscape Architect -- I need to adjust to a life of not moving plants all over someone's yard? Wow. At least I know I'm not alone out there. Thanks for sharing everyone. Does anyone know someone who has had the surgery?
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#401 of 1504 Old 03-09-2008, 12:17 AM
 
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I believe this is a very common condition and can effect women who have had NO children.
Yeah, my PT (who specializes in pelvic floor health) said she's had several clients who had POP without having carried children. One had had terrible allergies her entire life (constant coughing and sneezing) and the other worked in a coffee warehouse (constant lifting of heavy bags of coffee).

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Originally Posted by punkadude View Post
the prolapse is very, very sore if i do any walking -- so i'm avoiding that as much as possible. but that doesn't seem very healthy or very practical. it seems like walking makes it worse, but is that all in my mind?!
Welcome! It's great you're so on top of things already, so soon postpartum. I'm sure you'll recover quickly. It took me years to figure out I had POP. As far as walking goes, it and standing are two of the things my PT said would aggravate the condition. So it's not all in your mind! Not sure what the solution is -- the PT suggested a stationary bike or swimming for exercise, but of course one needs to walk to get places too, not just to exercise!

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After a rough couple of weeks with a cough and moving some heavy boxes, I started feeling symptomatic again. <...> I was feeling pretty confident after months of no symptoms - I guess this is a reminder to me that POP is a chronic condition. So I'm trying to be more mindful of things like not lifting heavy objects and treating coughs more seriously.
You said it. And, as threadbey said, "at this point, i do not feel that prolapse is something that can be healed and never worried about again." My experience with this relates to the below remark:

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Plus, I'm a Landscape Architect -- I need to adjust to a life of not moving plants all over someone's yard?
Again to quote my PT, she said you wouldn't believe how many of her clients have further injured their prolapses by overextending themselves gardening. She told me this after I totally furthered my prolapses a week ago by spending ten minutes yanking an overgrown jasmine rootball out of my garden. I was doing everything I wasn't supposed to do -- squatting, straining, holding my breath, lifting mightily. Sigh.

So where once my prolapses were mostly pain-free -- I felt a dull ache and pressure for about a week each cycle, right before and during my period -- now I feel slight pain all of the time, and worse pain after I stand for more than 15 minutes or carry something heavy. I spent several days calling myself a total idiot (and worse!) but now I'm just resigned. The only good thing about it is that now I am more aware of what activities are damaging to my prolapse -- because now they hurt!

Even though I knew I should have been taking it easy, I'm not used to babying myself, obviously. But this should serve as a wake-up call for me.
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#402 of 1504 Old 03-09-2008, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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1ColoradoMomma, it has been recommended that i have the sling also at some point. I too would love to hear if anyone has any experience w/this surgery. I am really hoping to avoid it, but I'd like to be prepared just in case.

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#403 of 1504 Old 03-09-2008, 02:36 PM
 
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Yes, Max, does surgery do away with the pain or just give a different pain (for the prolapse)? Also, what will happen to us at 65 if we don't do a surgery now? Does it get worse as we age (I am 41 now)?
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#404 of 1504 Old 03-09-2008, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, Max, does surgery do away with the pain or just give a different pain (for the prolapse)? Also, what will happen to us at 65 if we don't do a surgery now? Does it get worse as we age (I am 41 now)?
Exactly what I have been thinking! And: How long does the sling last? I have read that it is not permanent & needs to be redone periodically. Can you accidentally undue the surgery, by lifting or injury? How exactly do they attach the sling? What is it made of? How does the body respond to synthetic material inside? And many more. : I know I could google it & get a lot of the answers, but I guess I am just trying to avoid it for a while.

Did they recommend a hysterectomy for you also? That & the sling were my recommendations. My bladder has slipped already along w/my uterus, so the thought is that if my uterus is removed the bladder will have nothing to support it and incontinence will be a big concern.

I am doing OK handling it on my own and plan to continue as long as I can. I try to be optimistic, but on "bad days" it can get really discouraging.

I hope everyone else is well.

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#405 of 1504 Old 03-09-2008, 09:27 PM
 
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What my OB said was surgical corrections generally need to be "re-done" every 10 years or so, and that each surgery carries a success rate of around 85% (some surgeons are better and have a 90+ success rate, others aren't so skilled so if you're going for surgery make sure you've got the best!). She suggested that since my prolapses are relatively minor and I can control the discomfort through behavior modification/careful posture/etc that I leave surgery on the table for future consideration.

My mom had a hysterectomy and sling... her bladder had prolapsed significantly (she wouldn't tell me details... she's older and really really not comfortable discussing "women's health issues" with anyone, not even her own prolapsed daughter. She almost choked when I threw out a few "techinical" terms like cystocele over coffee. She was un believably humiliated that ANYONE would use words like that in public). Anyway, she recovered well from the surgery and was a 100% success story. However, that was about 15 years ago and everything has once again slipped down and out. She had ongoing PT during those years, had modified her activities (although she still gardened), and was trying to stay healthy through activities like Tai Chi. But there was still the slippage. So she is planning another round of surgery next year after she moves into a senior center.

What scares me the most I guess is the thought that gravity is constant, slippage is always possible. And healing from repeat surgery... well, as a vbac mama I researched the heck out of the pros/cons of repeat surgical procedures and the long term "damage" of repeat surgery... if there are risks and possible complications now, when I'm in my 30s, what are those risks and compliactions going to be when I'm in my 60s or 70s? If surgical correction in the best case scenario only lasts 10 years and if I start now then I'm looking at what? 4 or 5 surgeries? Each with increasing risk and decreasing benefit?

I totally believe that some level of prolapse is just the price human women pay for having babies with big heads, walking upright, and living in a world in which life expectancies keep getting longer. But that doesn't make it any easier. There are so many things I have trouble accepting about my body and my physical history... though I do think that having already come to terms with an unexpected and unwanted c/s (as a natural birth advocate and doula) has helped me start to make peace with my prolapse. I guess I already know the "my body has failed me" path.

Sigh.

On the bright side, prolapse is becoming a "young woman's complaint" and young women today are talking about this over coffee... and in public... and with their care providers. And they are demanding better solutions. My OB actually said that if it were her she'd wait another 5-10 years because she is convinced there will be some major surgical breakthroughs in the treatment of prolapse as the women affected demand them. So there is a sort of silver lining...

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#406 of 1504 Old 03-09-2008, 10:10 PM
 
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Exactly what I have been thinking! And: How long does the sling last? I have read that it is not permanent & needs to be redone periodically. Can you accidentally undue the surgery, by lifting or injury? How exactly do they attach the sling? What is it made of? How does the body respond to synthetic material inside? And many more. :
Yes! My LNP said that they have really good records for the slings lasting 12 yrs, which I guess is how long the particular brand they use has been "out".

No, I am not getting a hysterectomy. Surprisingly and thankfully, my uterus is exactly where it should be. I didn't even know I had any prolapse because I don't feel like my insides are falling out nor do I feel any pain. I guess I should have figured something was wrong when I couldn't get a tampon to stay in anymore, but sadly I just thought that it was because I was stretched out from my babies. The LPN also said that if my bladder was up where it should be that I would probably be wetting myself lots more than I currently do (which is only stress-related now). Nice news, huh!? Way to go, prolapsed bladder! She also mentioned some kind of plastic diaphragm to insert for up to days at a time to support my insides after surgery if I "need" to go hiking with a backpack or something. This sounds great, but plastic inside me?? Ugh.

So I've only had one appt so far and am scheduled for 2 more next month. I will have LOTS of questions to ask before I can make a decision. I like what Wombat said about new technologies coming out all the time -- I have considered this myself. But, I am perhaps needing to act sooner being that I'm already 41, and it might take a while for the new technology to not only come out but to be proven. I guess I have a stage 3 prolapse of the bladder.
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#407 of 1504 Old 03-12-2008, 02:19 PM
 
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I'm so glad someone told me about this thread! I'm 4 wks. PP, and seem to have a cystocele. I was getting really down while looking at other sites. Even a lot on the forums at wholewoman.com was pretty discouraging. It sounds like some people here are finding ways to at least partially correct the damage, which I was starting to think was impossible! I just ordered the whole woman book, so I'm looking forward to educating myself more. I'm debating on whether I should go get checked out to get a concrete diagnosis. I don't know how important it is, though. Thankfully, I don't have any symptoms other than a bulge in my vagina and being able to see my urethra (which is so bizarre). I had a really severe pelvic dislocation after the birth which is being treated with chiro. It was so messed up that I wonder if it could have been the cause of the prolapse. Has anyone heard of a link between symphesis pubis dysfunction and prolapse?
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#408 of 1504 Old 03-12-2008, 02:42 PM
 
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Let me speak from recent experience...

If you should be hit by a snow/ice storm. And if you should have to dig your way to the road with a 9mo in the ergo front carry. And if you then catch a cold after spending those two hours of shovel/pick ax/hauling ice removal. Then your prolapse will be halfway to your knees.

It's been two days and I'm feeling better but... just say no to major ice removal. Just wait for spring.

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#409 of 1504 Old 03-12-2008, 04:37 PM
 
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Oh dear wombatclay! I hope you feel better soon!

If I wear DD on my front, I can count on my prolapse really bothering me. Wearing her on my back dosn't seem to bother it as much.
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#410 of 1504 Old 03-12-2008, 05:02 PM
 
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Hello mamas! Just thought I'd join in here. I developed a very mild cystocele during my last month of pregnancy. Nearly two months pp it's still there but isn't bothering me nearly as much (probably because I don't have a baby putting direct pressure on it anymore).
Just trying to read up on the subject to see what I can do about it naturally (kegels etc) but I'm not too worried about it.
Hope everyone is feeling well!

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#411 of 1504 Old 03-12-2008, 05:17 PM
 
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Hi all. I have a question... i suspect i have a cystocele from delivery with my 18-month-old (my first vaginal birth). It is most noticeable after sex, but it really doesn't bother me.

I recently bought a Diva cup and it doesn't seem to fit correctly. I seem to put in in right, but when i bear down, the bottom half (not just the stem, the actual cup) slides out. I am not sure if it is because i am doing it wrong (i have heard that cups have a bit of a learning curve) or because the cystocele effects how it fits. Any Diva cup users with a cystocele able to help me here?

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#412 of 1504 Old 03-12-2008, 05:49 PM
 
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I wish I could help with the diva... unfortunately my own diva cup no longer fits as a result of the various prolapses I'm managing (it stays in but is gods awful uncomfy, which it wasn't before dd2 arrived). I've discovered tampons don't stay in either. I'll be ordering sea sponges since some mamas here have found those work really well for prolpase support (as well as being not bad at the obvious). But I haven't tried them yet.

I've heard something similar from a local prolapse mama.... her diva no longer stayed in and her birth control (diaphragm) no longer stayed put. But any ideas would be welcome... I miss my diva!

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#413 of 1504 Old 03-12-2008, 07:29 PM
 
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Shucks! I suppose i should have looked into this before i bought it, but i have kinda been in denial about the whole prolapse thing. I haven't gotten it checked out, because well, it isn't really bothering me and after my last birth, i have no desire to ever have anyone medical touch anything down there. I'll have to look into sea sponges. My cycles just returned and they are a lot heavier than they used to be and pads just aren't cutting it

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#414 of 1504 Old 03-12-2008, 07:43 PM
 
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How long have you had the diva? They usually take them back (or exchange them) within 90 days. I actually have a moon cup (similar to the diva, but a different manufacturer/longer tail) and it can be returned anytime in the first year...

And you motivated me... I went and ordered my sea sponges from gladrags after reading your post. I'll let you know how they work for me. My cycles have always been insane and they returned last month so I'm officially back on the hormone coaster.

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#415 of 1504 Old 03-13-2008, 12:03 AM
 
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oh, wombatclay, i'm so sorry about the ice and the cold and all!

on the diva cup issue - i just put mine in for the first time yesterday. it's working ok, although it does sometimes seem to shift so that i feel it which is annoying. my only recommendation is to check out the position of your cervix before inserting the cup so that you know what you're aiming for and then check to make sure it's in the right place when you're done (i check around the rim to make sure the cervix is in there and not to the side).

i haven't tried the diaphragm since the prolapse because i got an iud, which is perfectly compatible with prolapse and which i LOVE.

Wife to the man I never expected, DS born at home '07, '08, baby girl born at home Oct '09!
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#416 of 1504 Old 03-13-2008, 03:36 PM
 
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Oh, Wombat, funny you should have shoveled so much -- that is one thing that my LPN specifically mentioned that I will never be able to do again. How can one NOT shovel snow when one lives in a snowy climate? I guess we will have to look forward to the day that our kids are old enough to shovel for us!
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#417 of 1504 Old 03-13-2008, 03:46 PM
 
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I remember when I banged up my knees in college... the PT said the two things I needed to avoid forever were stairs and going up/down hills. Now, I was living in Ithaca, a region where every car sports an "Ithaca is Gorges" sticker (I'm still in Ithaca actually). Seriously the entire city is built on hills, cliffs, stairs, inclines, sheer drops, etc. Sort of like San Francisco but with snow and sleet and freezing rain. It was pretty funny.

As for shoveling... I've been shoveling all along with no prolapse problems. Then we got a note from the mail delivery dude saying if the mailbox wasn't cleared to X number feet on either side we'd no longer get the mail. We'd had a few ice storms, the drifts from the plow were well above my waist in depth, DH wouldn't be home till after 11pm and the note said the snow had to be gone "that day" or there would be a fine. So it wasn't normal shoveling. More like a labor of Hercules. I cleared a ~10 foot stretch of 3-4 foot deep packed ice (I really did need a pick ax for parts) and snow. With Ro in the front pack (too cold for the light coat that lets me put her in the back carry) and my toddler running rampant through the yard. And it really did take just shy of 2 hours to do that amount. I thought I'd die.

On the up side, we got two flicks through netflicks so it was probably worth it.

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#418 of 1504 Old 03-13-2008, 06:22 PM
 
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About the Diva cup - I actually put mine in for the first time the other day to try to help support things. I knew I was going to be wearing DD on the front for a long time so I put it in and it did actually help. I think I had it a little lower than you would usually wear it, but it did seem to support my cystocele some.

From what I have read on wholewoman though, I think mine is very mild. I think once my cycle returns (come on!!!) it will probably be in "remission" as I like to think of it.

Off to order sea sponge tampons!
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#419 of 1504 Old 03-13-2008, 10:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threadbey View Post
on the diva cup issue - i just put mine in for the first time yesterday. it's working ok, although it does sometimes seem to shift so that i feel it which is annoying. my only recommendation is to check out the position of your cervix before inserting the cup so that you know what you're aiming for and then check to make sure it's in the right place when you're done (i check around the rim to make sure the cervix is in there and not to the side).
quoting myself (is that ok?) - i'm not so sure the cup was a great idea. i've had a fair amount of trouble releasing the suction and am afraid it might be worsening my supposedly minimal prolapse. i'm even wondering now if my cup use in pre-baby life (several years) may have started me down the path to prolapse???? i never worried about releasing the suction pre-baby (had no IDEA it was possible for the uterus to move around in bad ways - plus, the instructions say pinching the bottom of the cup does it, but that doesn't seem to be reality for me) and now that i'm actively trying to release it and having little success, i think i was seriously yanking on my cervix with major amounts of suction all those years! has anyone seen anything on correlation of cup use to uterine prolapse?

i really want to keep using the cup - the past two days have been so blissful in comparison to pads (i do have cloth ones, but the messiness and the wad-iness is so much more annoying than the cup!) - but i'm thinking i really should go with precaution and not try it again. :

maybe i'll look into sponges. they just seem kind of yucky in comparison to the nice smooth clean silicon that's so easy to wash...

Wife to the man I never expected, DS born at home '07, '08, baby girl born at home Oct '09!
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#420 of 1504 Old 03-13-2008, 10:57 PM
 
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maybe i'll look into sponges. they just seem kind of yucky in comparison to the nice smooth clean silicon that's so easy to wash...
I don't have any Diva cup experience to help you out with. Your experience sounds like something I wouldn't be enjoying though! But as far as having a natural material in your body (sea sponge) vs. a synthetic one (cup), it seems that there is a trade-off. One is cleaner, but one seems easier on your body (pulling out AND natural-material). But I'm just guessing here. I just ordered the sponge today thanks to all the great posts I've been reading. They sound cleaner on heavy days than all the flannel sheet pieces I have cut up for myself to use as pads!
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