Noam Chomsky on Gaza... - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 01-21-2009, 10:57 PM
 
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They may have signed on to those ideas, but then they continue to build illegal settlements in such a way that makes a viable Palestinian state untenable. Empty rhetoric.
Ah, so you believe that Jews should be forbidden from living in parts of the land of Israel? Those such as Hevron that have historic significance, religious import, religious sites and historic continuous Jewish settlements of over centuries?? Those places that were made "Judenrein" (cleansed of Jews) when they were in Arab hands? While Arabs are allowed to live in Israel proper, Palestine should be ethnically cleansed?

Again - "settlements" is a diversionary tactic. One that absolves the Palestinians of their role in the failure of peace negotiations and their failure to use the BILLIONS in aid they are received to build anything productive.

I'll quote Barak Obama from his terrific speech yesterday. I think it applies to the Palestinian sitiation so well: "To the Muslim world, we seek a new way forward, based on mutual interest and mutual respect. To those leaders around the globe who seek to sow conflict, or blame their society's ills on the West -- know that your people will judge you on what you can build, not what you destroy."
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Old 01-21-2009, 11:03 PM
 
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I'll quote Barak Obama from his terrific speech yesterday. I think it applies to the Palestinian sitiation so well: "To the Muslim world, we seek a new way forward, based on mutual interest and mutual respect. To those leaders around the globe who seek to sow conflict, or blame their society's ills on the West -- know that your people will judge you on what you can build, not what you destroy."
See, I took this as a jibe at Israel... for totally decemating Gaza. :


I think it's a good piece... well-written. I hope it gets picked up in MSM, but I won't hold my breath.

Did anybody scroll down and see the picture "Obama through Gazans Eyes"? What do you think? Do you agree... or is it more of a time will tell thing?

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Old 01-21-2009, 11:08 PM
 
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if they're going to live in what is supposed to be palestine, then they should be living there under the law of palestine. they should be subject to the palestinian government, should one ever be allowed to really govern. They should not be able to just swoop in and take land other people are living on, steal houses other people are living in, terrorize people under the benevolent gaze of the IOF while the palestinian cops are powerless. they should not be able to drive to and from israel on roads forbidden to Palestinians, for example.

As it is, they are an outpost of the colonial state of Israel, and are used to drive a wedge and that while they're there, there really can be no Palestinian state.

I believe that all of hisotric palestine, which encompasses the west bank, Gaza, and Israel, should be open to Israelis and to Palestinians, all subject to the same secular, democratically elected government. As it is, the only existing and enforceable laws protect israelis and subjugate Palestinians.
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Old 01-21-2009, 11:16 PM
 
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Really? No, I don't think.

Could you please back that up with some links to statements from the Israeli gov't? Ones where they reject the idea of peace? Ones where they reject negotiations? Ones where they reject a two state solution? B/c they have signed on to all those ideas.
Well, there's what the government says and there's what it does. It says it wants peace, but it was Israel that broke the cease fire last November. It says it wants a two state solution (sometimes) but it still continues to build settlements on the West Bank. SO there's the rub.
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Old 01-21-2009, 11:41 PM
 
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Ah, so you believe that Jews should be forbidden from living in parts of the land of Israel? Those such as Hevron that have historic significance, religious import, religious sites and historic continuous Jewish settlements of over centuries?? Those places that were made "Judenrein" (cleansed of Jews) when they were in Arab hands? While Arabs are allowed to live in Israel proper, Palestine should be ethnically cleansed?

Again - "settlements" is a diversionary tactic. One that absolves the Palestinians of their role in the failure of peace negotiations and their failure to use the BILLIONS in aid they are received to build anything productive.
Wow. I don't know how to respond to this. My post that you quoted refers to ILLEGAL settlements. Yes, I oppose ILLEGAL settlements under Israeli control.

As far as "settlements" being a "diversionary tactic"--wow. This seems to suggest a view that Israel holds no blame for the absence of peace. Wow.
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:22 PM
 
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Its a strange thing to accuse someone of, being "self hating.". The implication is that if you are Jewish, or part of any cultural minority, you cannot criticise that minority's actions without also hating yourself. But there is a further implication, which I find stranger still, that because you hate yourself, and/or any compliance in it, your opinion is invalid. 

 

I also find something else interesting. Except in the direct context of Israeli citizenship, Chomsky never mentions Jews but rather Israelis. At no point does he conflate the Jewish religion with the Israeli state. That's something I'm careful not to do also. I think the Israeli state is an appalling, murderous entity. I am not going to assume that the kids locally who observe the Sabbath or who won't eat pork are complicit in that. I am not going to assume that every Jew supports the atrocities of Israel, the gunning down of children who are waving white flags. I am not going to make that assumption even though I know there to be a significant correlation. I will give each and every person the benefit of the doubtAnd so, from everything I have read, does Chomsky. He never conflates Judasim with pro-Israeli sentiment. I think it really is very unfortunate to confuse the two. People have a right to follow whatever religion they choose, without having to sign up to defend a state that the UN considers to be operating an apartheid regime.

 

I think he is a first rate critical thinker. Calling someone names like "self hating"- well what does that achieve? Its just an ad hominum attack and the issues are far too serious for that.


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