SAHM deserve pay? - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-01-2005, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
willowsmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: 76244
Posts: 2,342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thought this article was interesting...I love doing this job for free...but man...


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...omy_mothers_dc

Jenn - Mom, Photographer, Barista 

willowsmom is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-01-2005, 04:01 PM
 
HelloKitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Next door to the possums
Posts: 11,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I do work harder at this job then at any other I've had, and nobody does more overtime! I liked that article, thanx.

Great for nature studies! http://www.pleinairkids.com
Plein Air Kids - Handmade wooden art boxes for Budding Artists.
HelloKitty is offline  
Old 05-01-2005, 04:02 PM
 
MomInFlux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the beautiful mountains of sunny Southern California
Posts: 1,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I loved this part:

"The importance of this calculation or this estimate is just calling attention to the fact that being a stay-at-home mom is not a cop out, it's not the woman's way out of the workforce and it's not a job of no value," said Bill Coleman, senior vice president of compensation at Salary.com. "There is a lot of value there, and some would say it's even priceless."

It would be a nice start, for example, if SAHPs could earn social security credit based on the salary estimate provided. I use P (for parent) instead of M (for Mom) because my DH is the stay at home parent, and the only time he comments on not making a salary is when we get our social security statements and he sees $0 income for a particular quarter (most of them since the birth of DS).
MomInFlux is offline  
Old 05-01-2005, 04:03 PM
 
calpurnia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: south of the thames
Posts: 2,552
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wages for Housework & Global Women's Strike have been campaigning on this for years.

Quote:
Participants in the Global Women's Strike are fighting for payment for housework, clean, safe and accessible water resources, accessible and safe housing, education, gender justice and an end to wars. They have been active opponents of war and occupation, including the too often overlooked tragedies in the Congo and Uganda. The slogan they put forward is "Resources for Caring not Killing."

Right now, global expenditures on military spending exceed $956 billion per year. This is an even more disgusting figure when you compare it with spending for essentials of living at $20 billion. Yet it is caring work that produces all of the world's labor power. Validating this kind of work is a crucial step in radically transforming the division of labor and the structure of the economy.

Most of the work that women do is unwaged, unvalued and unrecognized, without guaranteed benefits, health and safety protections or organized hours. This lack of social and economic recognition devalues all of women's work and, where wages are received, contributes to keeping women's wages 25-50% below the wages of men.
from article here
calpurnia is offline  
Old 05-01-2005, 04:03 PM
 
tyedyedeyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: On the bus.....
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Awesome article! Next time I have a discussion with my mother or other family members about me being a stay at home mom and why they think I should go get a job because I'm not pulling in an money, I will print this article off..I already put it in my favorites and emailed it to several friends.

Thanks for putting this up!
tyedyedeyes is offline  
Old 05-01-2005, 06:06 PM
Banned
 
CharlieBrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: garden variety
Posts: 4,983
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
send the link to DH
CharlieBrown is offline  
Old 05-01-2005, 06:17 PM
 
TiredX2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: it appears to be a handbasket
Posts: 20,029
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MomInFlux
It would be a nice start, for example, if SAHPs could earn social security credit based on the salary estimate provided. I use P (for parent) instead of M (for Mom) because my DH is the stay at home parent, and the only time he comments on not making a salary is when we get our social security statements and he sees $0 income for a particular quarter (most of them since the birth of DS).
That, IMO, would only make sense if you still paid in the amount you "would" pay if you were working a "normal" job. (At $60K yearly that would be something like $9000 if you paid for your and your "employers" portion).

 

 

TiredX2 is offline  
Old 05-01-2005, 06:19 PM
 
mshollyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on the dancefloor,under a discoball
Posts: 2,881
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
that's fabulous
mshollyk is offline  
Old 05-01-2005, 06:30 PM
 
TiredX2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: it appears to be a handbasket
Posts: 20,029
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
While I totally respect & support SAHPs (heck, I am one) I felt that that article was a bit of a crock for a number of reasons.

Quote:
The titles -- which reflected the most time-consuming parts of their day -- include day-care center teacher, van driver, housekeeper, cook, chief executive officer, nurse and general maintenance worker, the survey showed.
They assume pay for a 40 hour work week for the above to be $43,461. Good luck finding a "real" job where you work 40 hours a week as a day-care center teacher, van driver, housekeeper, cook, or general maintenence worker. Nurse, sure. Chief executive officer is *obviously* how they increased the pay scale, but in a company only "making" $50K (appx family income in the US) unless there is only one employee the CEO is NOT getting $43K of it.

Then, they assumed $88,069 yearly for 60 hours of overtime a week. Couple issues w/that. (one minor one is that is not actually time & a half based on their 40 hours weekly payment)

First, since they have based that income on CEO--- they generally don't get overtime (nor would most salaried employees).

Secondly that assumes the SAHPs are working 14 hours a day which is a huge stretch for me since they also assumed:

Quote:
The hypothetical median salary is based on a 100-hour work week and assumes caring for at least two children of school age.
I think most SAHPs with school age children are *not* working 14 hour days in the way we think of "working". They are always on call, yes, but you generally don't get paid for that time.

Picky, yes. But I think that articles like this make the idea of paying SAHPs (or allow them to participate in retirement plans, purchase disability insurance etc... ) in this fashion LESS likely to be accepted by society, as a whole, than more (for example, I think that SAHPs should be able to purchase disability insurance so if they became disabled they could afford to get help with cleaning, shopping, picking the kids up, etc... but I can NEVER see any insurance company insuring a SAHP for $130+K yearly--- can you imagine the falsified claims!?!?!_

 

 

TiredX2 is offline  
Old 05-01-2005, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
willowsmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: 76244
Posts: 2,342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think a lot of the article has to do with bringing to light just how much we do as SAHP. We'll never get paid (other than with kisses and hugs and watching our children grow, etc)...but just calling attention to the fact that we do more than just sitting on our a**es watching Oprah and eating bonbons...that to me is a huge step forward.

kwim

But, as devil's advocate...I agree TiredX2.

Jenn - Mom, Photographer, Barista 

willowsmom is offline  
Old 05-01-2005, 09:45 PM
 
TiredX2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: it appears to be a handbasket
Posts: 20,029
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by willowsmom
I think a lot of the article has to do with bringing to light just how much we do as SAHP. We'll never get paid (other than with kisses and hugs and watching our children grow, etc)...but just calling attention to the fact that we do more than just sitting on our a**es watching Oprah and eating bonbons...that to me is a huge step forward.
Yeah, don't forget the People's Court

 

 

TiredX2 is offline  
Old 05-01-2005, 10:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
willowsmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: 76244
Posts: 2,342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiredX2
Yeah, don't forget the People's Court

:LOL

Or..."stories" (what my stepmom likes to call Soaps.) "Jenni I'll call you later...I'm watching my stories."

Not that she's a SAHM...she's a sad, waste of air... :


ANYWAY!!!

Jenn - Mom, Photographer, Barista 

willowsmom is offline  
Old 05-01-2005, 11:09 PM
 
GoodWillHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Doing something...vague.
Posts: 11,450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh, wait, what about "Texas Justice?"
GoodWillHunter is offline  
Old 05-02-2005, 12:56 AM
 
honolula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 692
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree that anyone who has to watch daytime TV should be paid $130,000 a year.
honolula is offline  
Old 05-02-2005, 03:52 PM
 
Greaseball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 8,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Reminds me of the book by Ann Crittenden...I think it was The Price of Motherhood? She also made another interesting point: SAHMs are not entitled to unemployment compensation if they are hurt on the job and cannot continue working.

And sick days...I told dh that I am entitled to sick days just as he is, and that he is to call in sick whenever I am sick. I will not work when I am sick! He agreed.

As far as actual wages, while that would be nice, what I think is most important is the other stuff like social security and workers comp. Just one more step in getting SAHMing recognized as a "real job."

And maybe it's true that we don't work constantly 100 hours a week, but remember, there are no guaranteed breaks either. You do not have the right to a full night's sleep; you don't even have the right to a few hours in a row, if you have young ones! There are no set nap times, no meal times where the entire kitchen does not have to be cleaned afterwards, and no right to privacy in the bathroom. My kids are basically my boss. Other people get to go to the bathroom without their bosses chewing on their legs! (I hope)

I think of my work in terms of an invaluable contribution to the rest of society. I'd much rather be paid in utmost respect than in dollars.
Greaseball is offline  
Old 05-02-2005, 03:59 PM
 
calpurnia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: south of the thames
Posts: 2,552
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
BTW, in the UK single mothers are guaranteed an state income until their last child is 16 if they want to stay home.
calpurnia is offline  
Old 05-02-2005, 04:03 PM
 
Greaseball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 8,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Which is what the US could afford to do, if it valued SAHMs at all.
Greaseball is offline  
Old 05-02-2005, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
willowsmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: 76244
Posts: 2,342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by calpurnia
BTW, in the UK single mothers are guaranteed an state income until their last child is 16 if they want to stay home.
Ohhh sure...rub our noses in it, why don't you!!! :LOL

Just kidding. I am envious though.

Jenn - Mom, Photographer, Barista 

willowsmom is offline  
Old 05-02-2005, 04:09 PM
 
Stacie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: "gifting"
Posts: 1,370
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
neat idea, but knowing the govt. if they start paying moms to stay at home, wouldn't they feel they have a right to regulate the home? Something about this idea scares me. While I wouldn't mind having a paycheck for the work I do... I don't need the govt any more than they already do, telling me how to raise my child.
Stacie is offline  
Old 05-02-2005, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
willowsmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: 76244
Posts: 2,342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greaseball
Which is what the US could afford to do, if it valued SAHMs at all.
and


"neat idea, but knowing the govt. if they start paying moms to stay at home, wouldn't they feel they have a right to regulate the home? Something about this idea scares me. While I wouldn't mind having a paycheck for the work I do... I don't need the govt any more than they already do, telling me how to raise my child."


Sadly...this is also true. <sigh>
Good point, though, Stacie!

Jenn - Mom, Photographer, Barista 

willowsmom is offline  
Old 05-02-2005, 04:51 PM
 
Momtwice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I think most SAHPs with school age children are *not* working 14 hour days in the way we think of "working". They are always on call, yes, but you generally don't get paid for that time.
Then explain these dishpan hands and my frazzled state.

I thought my life would be easier when the kids went back to school....in some ways it is I still work my butt off. Now I actually do housework which I did not do as much when I was AP-ing tiny ones. And grocery shopping and chauffering and it's not that unusual for a kid to stay home sick for a day or several.....and now that the kids are wearing nearly adult sized clothes the laundry piles up quicker. DH helps a lot less than he did when the kids were tiny (assuming I could and would pick up the slack) so that evened out.

Most SAHParents I know work just as hard when the kids are back in school, but on different things. More driving, less hands on child care of small helpless people....more grocery shopping because they are bigger and they eat more, less diapering....

As for the article itself it overjoyed me to be recognized, since the culture where I am is to ignore and stop the admiration of SAHM's once the kids enter school.

Take the time to heal from your marriage before you move on with someone else. Make a list of all the qualities you would like in a new partner and then work on growing that way yourself. ~mandib50
Momtwice is offline  
Old 05-03-2005, 03:58 PM
 
charmarty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: desperately seeking SPELLCHECK!!
Posts: 4,594
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
C&P this from the other thread..

Quote:
Originally Posted by charmarty
I wonder what would happen if every SAHM and every one who knows and loves a SAHM even WAHM or WOHM to write to congress. write, e mails ect..start a flood. it is about time we are recognised in the owrld as equals!
charmarty is offline  
Old 05-03-2005, 04:06 PM
 
pilesoflaundry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: getting comfy again
Posts: 8,925
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by honolula
I agree that anyone who has to watch daytime TV should be paid $130,000 a year.
: :

I am ok with not getting paid, sure it would be awesome if it did happen but considering how strapped the gov. already is I don't see that money coming from anywhere anytime soon.

What I'm all for is more respect! Not "well I work and what do you do?" crap from *some*(note not all!) working moms or childless women/men or the whole "but I have a job to do" from family or husbands. KNowing that this job is not easy, that is is hard and tiring and sometimes it sucks and getting a break from that without looking like a horrible person wanting a break from staying at home. Knowing that it is also so wonderful and worth it but that sometimes it would be nice to get paid!

So if this article as a bit unrealistic about salaries as it is and knowing it's probably not in the cards to start paying SAHP's does bring about more respect then that's cool.
pilesoflaundry is offline  
Old 05-03-2005, 04:52 PM
 
SmilingChick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by calpurnia
BTW, in the UK single mothers are guaranteed an state income until their last child is 16 if they want to stay home.
I would not be in favor of this at all. I don't think the gov't should have to provide for one's children, or pay a mother to raise her kids. I am a SAHM b/c dh and I planned ahead and were willing to make financial sacrifices. It is no one's responsibility but ours.
SmilingChick is offline  
Old 05-03-2005, 04:57 PM
 
Greaseball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 8,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
We all have a responsibility to contribute to society, IMO. If my children are no one's responsibility but mine, then I want out of helping anyone else, ever, as long as I live, and I don't want to teach my children to help others either. I also don't want my children to have any sort of paid work that might benefit the government if the government thinks they don't have to help my children.

Funny how the countries who do provide SAHMs with pay and benefits somehow produce good citizens anyway. It's the US who has the highest rate of incarceration, not the UK or any other country. That's just one example...
Greaseball is offline  
Old 05-03-2005, 05:13 PM
 
SmilingChick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Financially it is YOUR/MY responsiblity to pay for YOUR/MY children. The gov't already gives too many handouts. There isn't an unlimited amount of money to be given away.
SmilingChick is offline  
Old 05-03-2005, 05:27 PM
 
Benji'sMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,971
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MomInFlux
I loved this part:

"The importance of this calculation or this estimate is just calling attention to the fact that being a stay-at-home mom is not a cop out, it's not the woman's way out of the workforce and it's not a job of no value," said Bill Coleman, senior vice president of compensation at Salary.com. "There is a lot of value there, and some would say it's even priceless."

It would be a nice start, for example, if SAHPs could earn social security credit based on the salary estimate provided. I use P (for parent) instead of M (for Mom) because my DH is the stay at home parent, and the only time he comments on not making a salary is when we get our social security statements and he sees $0 income for a particular quarter (most of them since the birth of DS).
My DH is a SAHD too - I never thought of the SS thing - they should definitely get SS!

Single mom of 2 boys
Benji'sMom is offline  
Old 05-03-2005, 05:28 PM
 
Greaseball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 8,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Yep, if my dh dies I get like $1700 a month. If I die, he gets nothing.

I guess it's his responsibility to marry someone who will not die?
Greaseball is offline  
Old 05-03-2005, 05:42 PM
 
SmilingChick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Couldn't someone in that position take responsiblity for himself and get a life insurance policy in the event of such a misfortune?

Give me a break...it's not the government's job to take care of you. That attitude of entitlement is disgusting.
SmilingChick is offline  
Old 05-03-2005, 05:51 PM
 
Greaseball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 8,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
People can't buy life insurance if they can't afford it...I sense this is going to turn into one of those "poor people don't deserve to have children" arguments.

I assume no one with this attitude sends their kid to public school or calls the police if their home is burglarized. Why should I pay for someone else's kid's education after all? Why should I have to help someone's crimes be solved? How about I only pay for things that are for me, me, me! Who cares about anyone else?
Greaseball is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off