Court case to decide if US citizens must show show ID to security on demand (read#18) - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 24 Old 11-26-2005, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Interesting case:
http://www.papersplease.org/davis/facts.html

How does checking for the presence of an ID Card make anyone safer? And why isn't the media reporting this story?

"Those who give up some Liberty for some percieved security deserve neither Liberty or Security."

-Ben Franklin
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#2 of 24 Old 11-26-2005, 01:34 PM
 
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I read that quote attributed to Thomas Jefferson, but....

Since the Simpson-Mazzoli Bill passed in 1985, I have carried my American passport everywhere.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#3 of 24 Old 11-26-2005, 02:18 PM
 
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That is HORRIBLE!!!!! It scares the hell out of me how this country is becoming more and more of a police state. She should not have to show her ID to ride a public bus, and I hope whatever judge that oversees this case has the sense to rule in her (and the general public's) favor.
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#4 of 24 Old 11-26-2005, 06:24 PM
 
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That is absolutely ridiculous. Those policeman should be fired and then forced to undergo human rights training, as well as a mandatory review of the laws. I don't know about that state, but in my state you cannot be legally arrested for refusing to indentify yourself to a police officer. This is crazy...and they shouldn't have handcuffed her, or even attempted to touch her. Physical contact with a government official should be saved until completely necessary. In my opinion police have wayy to much physical power and use it to often....and doing so puts them in a dangerous position of having way to much power.

This lady showed no threat nor did anything except refuse to comply with an "officials" ego. She committed no crime, and thereby should be compensated for the embarrasment and physical assault she suffered at the hands of those who should be protecting, not harming her. It makes me sick to think that those horrible men will still have their jobs. For them, there are no consequences, and there should be. There is something seriously wrong with our government when our officials can physically assault an unharmed citizen and go without punishment, when the rest of us would be sitting in jail.

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#5 of 24 Old 11-26-2005, 09:31 PM
 
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ask me for ID... don't see a problem.
it's happened to me here & in Mexico many times...

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#6 of 24 Old 11-26-2005, 09:56 PM
 
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This "Show me your papers!" thing is bullshit.
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#7 of 24 Old 11-26-2005, 09:59 PM
 
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Were I see a problem is that she is on federal property, like a miltary base, You need to show id. They need to move the bus route around the facility not force people to show id's that are passing through.
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#8 of 24 Old 11-27-2005, 12:05 AM
 
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Like the last page said, if you have nothing to hide, why not show identification?

We need civics classes back in the schools.
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#9 of 24 Old 11-27-2005, 01:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miriam
Like the last page said, if you have nothing to hide, why not show identification?

We need civics classes back in the schools.
Because RIGHTS are not about "why not" they are about WHY! The police want to search my house? WHY! The police want to hold me in jail? WHY! The Founders made a very specific choice that in some cases, many cases, the RIGHTS of the individual member of our society shall prevail. I don't give a figgy pudding if it's federal property.
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#10 of 24 Old 11-27-2005, 01:57 AM
 
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ITA, Kama'aina mama, but I think the poster was being rhetorical.

We need civics classes because people do not know their rights.

Also, with so many new immigrants here, they need to learn that we are a free nation and that it is not necessary to show ID as is done in other countries.

I admire that woman, but I still carry my own passport since it is such a problem.

I learned here at MDC that we do not have to let a government worker, read - CPS worker - into your home simply because they say so. Let them go get a warrant like they are supposed to and prove their case before a judge like they are supposed to. We have rights.

If you are not willing to insist on those rights, then you probably do not deserve those rights in the first place.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#11 of 24 Old 11-27-2005, 02:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kama'aina mama
Because RIGHTS are not about "why not" they are about WHY! The police want to search my house? WHY! The police want to hold me in jail? WHY! The Founders made a very specific choice that in some cases, many cases, the RIGHTS of the individual member of our society shall prevail. I don't give a figgy pudding if it's federal property.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
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#12 of 24 Old 11-27-2005, 02:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polka123
ask me for ID... don't see a problem.
it's happened to me here & in Mexico many times...


I think that is where I am.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#13 of 24 Old 11-27-2005, 12:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice


I think that is where I am.
Um... how about, because if she needs to show id to ride a bus through federal property, next time perhaps she'll be required to show id to ride the bus in the first place. Then she'll be required to show id to enter the highway in her own car. And show id to walk down a city street. And show id in order to leave her own home. How about required to show an id and allow a policeman without a warrant into her home on demand, because the cop decided to come knocking? It spirals downward pretty quickly. There are good reasons why the constitution protects us against unwarranted searches. Complying to such searches under the assumption that you have nothing to hide helps to build and maintain a system whereby the power hungry and dangerous can thwart those protections. After all... if everybody else is willing to give up their rights... why aren't you? Hey, everybody else on the bus let me rape them. If everybody else is allowing it, it must be ok. If you won't drop your panties for me, you must be a criminal. Right?
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#14 of 24 Old 11-28-2005, 11:38 AM
 
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The Colorado ACLU's website doesn't seem to have it, but the Washington State ACLU (where I live) has a good summary of your rights when you get arrested:
http://www.aclu-wa.org/Issues/police...nd_police.html
Of particular interest for this thread is
Quote:
2. You don’t have to answer a police officer’s questions, but you must show your driver’s license and registration when stopped in a car. In most other situations, Washington law does not make it a crime to refuse to identify yourself to a police officer.
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#15 of 24 Old 11-28-2005, 01:46 PM
 
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Didn't the SCOTUS rule on something like this last year?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06/21/sc....id/index.html

Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of the state of Nevada, 03-5554.
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#16 of 24 Old 11-28-2005, 02:03 PM
 
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The difference would be that Mr Hiibel was suspected of a crime and the subject of a police call at the time while Ms Davis had done nothing to draw police attention whatsoever. It is of interest to me that the dissenting minority in Hiibel is the more conservative end of the court.
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#17 of 24 Old 11-28-2005, 03:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kama'aina mama
It is of interest to me that the dissenting minority in Hiibel is the more conservative end of the court.
That doesn't surprise me much. In the absense of politics, true constituational conservatives tend to favor the government leaving people alone, or at least that has always been my impression.
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#18 of 24 Old 11-29-2005, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Check out what's going on in Miami:
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/11/28/D8E5RPBO5.html
Quote:
Miami police announced Monday they will stage random shows of force at hotels, banks and other public places to keep terrorists guessing and remind people to be vigilant.

Deputy Police Chief Frank Fernandez said officers might, for example, surround a bank building, check the IDs of everyone going in and out and hand out leaflets about terror threats.
Surround a building and check IDs --- Welcome to the beginning of the end, people!
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#19 of 24 Old 11-29-2005, 10:38 AM
 
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Heil Bush!
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#20 of 24 Old 11-29-2005, 11:03 AM
 
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The police state is here.

Quote:
On November 27 Walter Pincus reported in the Washington Post that the Pentagon is expanding its domestic surveillance activity and that all sorts of proposals are afoot to allow military agencies to spy on law-abiding Americans and to build secret dossiers on citizens.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...112600857.html
The demand for police state powers is said to be necessary in order to fight the "war on terror."

Considering the drastic gestapo-type activities for which Washington is clamoring, a person would think that America is being overwhelmed by terrorist attacks. Yet, despite an aggressive and brutal war that Bush has been waging in Iraq for going on three years, terrorist attacks in America are even more rare than a honest politician. There has not been a terror attack since September 11, 2001, more than four years ago!

The Bush administration's hype about terrorism serves no purpose other than to build a police state that is far more dangerous to Americans than terrorists.

Ever since the "war on terror" was initiated by the Bush administration, the US has been holding large numbers of "detainees." By chance or the laws of probability, a few of these people might fit some definition of "terrorist." The vast majority, however, are innocents picked up in the equivalent of Stalin-era KGB street sweeps. Many are hapless people sold by warlords to the US in order to receive cash awards for turning in "terrorists."

Despite the large number of alleged "terrorists" or "enemy combatants" that are being held, the Bush administration simply hasn't a shred of evidence with which to bring "detainees" to trial.

If truth be known, the "detainees" are merely props for Bush's hype about the "terrorist threat." The "detainees" were arrested in order to make Americans feel safe and at ease with the police state.
http://counterpunch.com/roberts11282005.html
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#21 of 24 Old 11-29-2005, 11:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kama'aina mama
Heil Bush!
:

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#23 of 24 Old 11-29-2005, 10:08 PM
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ID is nearly always about ego/power. One a minor level and only in traffic stops/arrests it establishes initial info the authority figure then uses to build a case against the suspect. Every authority figure knows the proliferation of fake IDs and it never stops authoritarians from insisting on IDs being produced on demand. In every circumstance, it's purely about power of the authority figure over the person producing the ID. I hope the case gets decided in her favor. It's always one of those pathetic, well we have to do something to make us look official excuses by the feeble-mindeds.
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#24 of 24 Old 11-30-2005, 02:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kama'aina mama
Because RIGHTS are not about "why not" they are about WHY! The police want to search my house? WHY! The police want to hold me in jail? WHY! The Founders made a very specific choice that in some cases, many cases, the RIGHTS of the individual member of our society shall prevail. I don't give a figgy pudding if it's federal property.

Best post I have read today.

~Shannon~ Proud Mama of 3 girls, ages 7,4, and 2.
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