AP: Video shows Bush, Chertoff warned before Katrina - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 78 Old 03-01-2006, 11:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I read this article and just shook my head in disgust! So many missed opportunities! So many lives lost needlessly!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...g_x.htm?csp=24
Quote:
WASHINGTON — In dramatic and sometimes agonizing terms, federal disaster officials warned President Bush and his homeland security chief before Hurricane Katrina struck that the storm could breach levees, put lives at risk in New Orleans' Superdome and overwhelm rescuers, according to video footage obtained by the Associated Press. (Exclusive video: FEMA briefed on Katrina)
Bush didn't ask a single question during the final briefing before Katrina struck on Aug. 29, but he assured soon-to-be-battered state officials: "We are fully prepared."
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#2 of 78 Old 03-01-2006, 11:49 PM
 
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I'm so enraged that tears are forming in my eyes!

"We are fully prepared," Bush said. HOW?! How we you fully prepared, Mr. President?! Face it, you FAILED. Not your subordinants, You knew and you failed the American people.

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#3 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 12:10 AM
 
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The buck stops there, too, apparently.
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#4 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 02:39 AM
 
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They got a great clip of them telling Nagin about this video on the news. He hadn't heard about it and they just bombarded him with this. It was priceless. His face went from shock to utter disgust.

All I can say is I didn't vote for Bush!LOL! Its just a shame that it is beyond question that so many top level government officials are to blame yet they can claim "executive rights" and withhold from us any type of justice! They aren't even providing justice in the form of relief efforts - at least we could live with that! But nope - just another moron in office.
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#5 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 04:01 AM
 
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That mess is criminal negligence, at the very least. I watched the video, and it's just so obvious that Bush isn't even listening-- he's providing a canned response.

If anybody else were that incompetent at work, they'd be fired. Sigh.
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#6 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 12:26 PM
 
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coming out of lurkdom.........

Oh please, don't you all know that Bush had no responsibility in this? He didn't fail anyone!! The local and state governements failed, the mayor failed!! It was all on them and they failed the people!! It was their responsibility! Not only that, the people should have been prepared! They should've gotten themselves out of there, it's not the government's responsiblity to get them out--even if they have no money for a car, or money to stay somewhere else, or money to buy food or water!! It's their fault for being poor, they should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps! This was the liberal's utopia! See how that failed the people?!?!?

Oh yeah, and it was Clinton's fault too.

Isn't that how the story goes?

Oh, and just to make sure, that was all sarcasm. I mean none of that. I'm just repeating pretty much everything I hear most bushistas saying.

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#7 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 12:33 PM
 
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The AP gets it wrong again:

Quote:
Max Mayfield (director, National Hurricane Center): I don't think anyone can tell you with any confidence right now whether the levees will be topped.
Levees being topped is much different than a breach of the levees. No-contradiction was made.

For the rest of the story, one can turn to the local paper of record:

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/washing...9685117810.xml

The day storm hit, Bush was worried about levees
Quote:
Later in the call, White House aide Joe Hagin asks specifically about the condition of the levees. Gov. Kathleen Blanco tells him that no failures were confirmed -- yet.

"We keep getting reports in some places that maybe water is coming over the levees," Blanco said. "I think we have not breached the levee. We have not breached the levee at this point in time. That could change, but in some places we have floodwaters coming in New Orleans East and the line at St. Bernard Parish where we have waters that are 8- to 10-feet deep, and we have people swimming in there, that's got a considerable amount of water."

Brown told congressional investigators that had the White House been monitoring the calls, "They would have known what was going on."
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#8 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 12:40 PM
 
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Why is this information only available NOW?
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#9 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 04:22 PM
 
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Here's another version of the story, from the BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4765058.stm

Please note:

Quote:
The footage, obtained by the Associated Press, also shows Mr Bush being told of the risk to evacuees in the Superdome.

It appears to contradict Mr Bush's statement four days after Katrina hit, when he said: "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees."
You see, Flagger, the problem isn't a semantic difference between the words "breached" and "topped." (Oh, the irony of a supporter of a Republican president arguing about such semantic differences! If there had not been lives at stake, how we all would laugh!) No, the problem isn't that at all. It's that Bush lied his freakin' head off. He was worried about the levees breaching the day the storm hit? So why was he saying "no one anticipated the levees being breached" four days later?

More broadly, why does the Bush administration imagine that incompetence is their best excuse for inaction? Why would anyone prefer them to be incompetent...unless their real reason for inaction was the purest malice?

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#10 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain optimism
More broadly, why does the Bush administration imagine that incompetence is their best excuse for inaction? Why would anyone prefer them to be incompetent...unless their real reason for inaction was the purest malice?
This to me, sadly, is the real truth!

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#11 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 05:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraBoo
Why is this information only available NOW?
It has been available for months in the form of transcripts.
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#12 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 05:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain optimism
You see, Flagger, the problem isn't a semantic difference between the words "breached" and "topped." (Oh, the irony of a supporter of a Republican president arguing about such semantic differences! If there had not been lives at stake, how we all would laugh!) No, the problem isn't that at all. It's that Bush lied his freakin' head off. He was worried about the levees breaching the day the storm hit? So why was he saying "no one anticipated the levees being breached" four days later?
WRONG!

It is not a semantic difference. Take your bathtub. If water goes over the TOP of it, the water damage will not be as significant as if the whole side of your bathtub were to fail.

There was no lying in this case. No one anticipated the levees would be breached.

Where are the LIBERALS alternatives. Not one has offered anything that would have been done different. It is all blame Bush all the time.
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#13 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 06:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain optimism

More broadly, why does the Bush administration imagine that incompetence is their best excuse for inaction? Why would anyone prefer them to be incompetent...unless their real reason for inaction was the purest malice?

yep.
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#14 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 06:29 PM
 
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Every level of government failed in this, From Mayor Nagin to gov. Blanco, to Bush. However, what seems important to me aobut all of this new video is that it's clear they knew it was going to be big; so why the delayed response?

New Orleans was, before the storm, maority african amaerican. that is no longer true. does anyone benefit from that?

The 9th Ward was a black owned community, it may not be that when all is said and done. does anyone benefit from that?

I think it should be clear to us all that bushco is capable of *anything.*
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#15 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 07:13 PM
 
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Bush himself said he/they were prepared.

Do you agree with his statement Flagger?

And if so, why then was the response so cataclysmic?

Indeed, just the other day people were evicted from hotels without being able to relocate to the trailer that were promised months ago.
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#16 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 07:27 PM
 
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this space had something very funny and you missed it.
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#17 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 07:31 PM
 
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a breach implies topping. When the side of my tub breaks, you can bet your flaggin' booty that the thing gets topped.
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#18 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 08:13 PM
 
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Quote:
It is all blame Bush all the time.
If the shoe fits...
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#19 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 08:23 PM
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Let's keep this on topic. Keep the personal pot shots OUT of the posts. :

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#20 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 11:01 PM
 
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Bush has once again failed us. When does the blame come? What can we do to hold him accountable when if appears*most* of his followers don't care what he does as long as gays can't marry and abortion clinics are fair game (either that or the grostesquely rich)? I am so downhearted for this country.
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#21 of 78 Old 03-02-2006, 11:51 PM
 
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Vindicated!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11643327/

Quote:
On a conference call, which President Bush participated in as Katrina approached, the director of the National Hurricane Center, Max Mayfield, said: “I don’t think any model can tell you with any confidence right now whether the levees will be topped or not, but that's obviously a very, very grave concern.”

Today, Mayfield told NBC News that he warned only that the levees might be topped, not breached, and that on the many conference calls he monitored, “Nobody talked about the possibility of a levee breach or failure until after it happened.”
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#22 of 78 Old 03-03-2006, 12:01 AM
 
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Ok - so lets say the levees were topped.

THAT IS ENOUGH CAUSE FOR ACTION!

He failed. When the levees were topped.
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#23 of 78 Old 03-03-2006, 12:11 AM
 
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Sorry you and the rest of the media seem to miss the point that three states were affected. THIS WAS NOT JUST ABOUT NOLA. There was no lying as the media wants to point out as some smoking gun. Information that was available at the public hearings into this matter. Funny how the press and this site were vilifying Michael Brown and now he is some kind of hero.
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#24 of 78 Old 03-03-2006, 12:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flagger
Sorry you and the rest of the media seem to miss the point that three states were affected. THIS WAS NOT JUST ABOUT NOLA.
Perfect timing!

Rebuilding is slow on the Mississippi coast

"Six months after Hurricane Katrina, progress on the Mississippi Gulf Coast is measured in cubic yards.

"In this small coastal city alone, the storm dumped up to 2 million cubic yards of debris - enough to fill two football fields to a height of about 200 yards. Roughly half of that remains on the ground, smelly mounds of jumbled concrete, brick, metal, wood and glass.

"Pass Christian Alderman Lou Rizzardi said government red tape has hampered the cleanup, but he's encouraged how far the city has come since Aug. 29. Homes are getting repaired, roads are clear and the rest of the debris should be gone by June 1.

"I would have hoped for faster results," Rizzardi said in a mobile home that serves as city hall. "But given all the bureaucracy you have to deal with, I think the progress is probably admirable."

"Such talk rings hollow to residents of Pass Christian's "tent city," where dozens live in rows of military-style tents while they wait for the Federal Emergency Management Agency to deliver their travel trailers.

"We're lost, not knowing what the next day is going to bring," said Deborah Lewis, 50, who's been sharing a tent with her 76-year-old mother, Doloris King, since mid-November."

More here:
http://www.theeagle.com/includes/printpage.php
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#25 of 78 Old 03-03-2006, 12:48 AM
 
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Meanwhile.....

FEMA Chief Preparing for Hurricane Season

"The nation's beleaguered disaster response agency is frantically trying to fill hundreds of vacant jobs as the next hurricane season looms less than three months away, top officials said Thursday.

"The staffing concerns, voiced by Federal Emergency Management Agency acting director R. David Paulison, came as Congress cleared the way to extend disaster unemployment benefits by 13 weeks to victims of hurricanes Katrina and Rita."

More here:
http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/...ap2566823.html
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#26 of 78 Old 03-03-2006, 01:43 AM
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Let's lost the name calling (and yes...fickle liberals counts. Please edit!)

Seriously folks, it is getting difficult to have a conversation without it being derailed by comments that have nothing to do with anything other than other poster's beliefs.

Let's try and keep this on topic, and away from rude, disparaging remarks about anyone else.

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#27 of 78 Old 03-03-2006, 04:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flagger
Vindicated!

Even my Grandfather said the levees would fail if there was a major Hurricane in NOLA and that was during the Reagan Admin (when we went to NOLA with him to visit relatives) Everyone knew this was a possibility.


There is no vindication, either he is lying or he and his friends are less smart than a 60 year old plumber.

There is no pretty way out of this...I really cannot understand why "We had no idea!" is an adequate response!! People complain all the time about the dumbing down of America, it is a fine example when the "Leader of the Free World" pretends ignorance over something anyone with common sense knew perfectly well.


That is like saying "6X7=42!!!!!! AH!!! We didn't know!!!! How could we anticipated such a horrific result when we multiplied six by seven?!?!?!?!? No one could have anticipated that!"

What about personal responsibility?

I don't think Blanco is any less wrong, in this particular case.

She did, however declare a state of Emergency so the Feds had complete authority to do what they needed to anyways. They didn't need to hear from her what was happening..

Course, my Grandfather is a clever man, but I would still like to think they had more info than he did

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#28 of 78 Old 03-03-2006, 11:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abimommy
There is no pretty way out of this...I really cannot understand why "We had no idea!" is an adequate response!! People complain all the time about the dumbing down of America, it is a fine example when the "Leader of the Free World" pretends ignorance over something anyone with common sense knew perfectly well.
That's right, that's a key issue here. Why feign ignorance or incompetence? All the other officials (mayors, governors) aren't doing that.

At this point I'm even suspecting that Michael Brown feigned incompetence, in order to cover the bad policies of the administration. I just wonder, that's all.

and, Flagger, I finally agree with you about something. It isn't just about NOLA, Mississippi has all these flooded areas and displaced people. The feds are not completely unresponsive, but close.

Divorced mom of one awesome boy born 2-3-2003.
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#29 of 78 Old 03-03-2006, 12:20 PM
 
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flagger-what are you even arguing??? I mean, really? anyone who can read a newspaper knew long before katrina that a strong storm could breach the levees in nola.

bush's administration knew that long before katrina. the army corps of engineers knew that long before katrina. the LA newspapers spoke of it long before katrina.
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#30 of 78 Old 03-03-2006, 12:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flagger
Vindicated!
What ever you say there Flagger....
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