Ultrasound/Doppler safety (clarification in post 65) - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 77 Old 10-11-2008, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
no5no5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Let me preface this by saying that if you don't want to hear graphic depictions about ultrasound risks, you should not read on.

Okay, so when I was pregnant with DD, I was totally uninformed, and I did not know that there was any risk whatsoever associated with ultrasound. I had the early ultrasound, the second-trimester ultrasound, and doppler heartbeat checking every visit. Then Bliss posted that article, and the more research I do the more freaked out I get. When I first started considering that maybe early ultrasounds aren't all that great, it hadn't even occurred to me that second-trimester ultrasounds might also be dangerous. NOW, it has finally registered that those Doppler heartbeat thingies are totally also ultrasound. And probably just as dangerous.

And now I'm reading about the actual effects of ultrasound, and if you're not careful it can significantly increase the temperature of the fetal brain. THAT doesn't sound so good. And in the first trimester, there is a risk of "cavitation-type non-thermal effects," which seems like a totally meaningless but nonetheless frightening phrase.

So now I am thinking that I am going to have to give up not only the early ultrasound, but also the second-trimester ultrasound AND the doppler heartbeats. Meaning I won't even know if there's really a baby in there at all until, gee, quickening or something. Meaning, how the heck will I find out if the baby has serious birth defects? Can I really be expected to go 9 months without any idea what the heck is in there???

Okay, I know I am way overreacting. But I am an all-or-nothing kinda gal, and I just don't see myself saying, "Yes, it may cook the baby, but I'll do it anyway just for a minute..." :
no5no5 is offline  
#2 of 77 Old 10-11-2008, 08:11 PM
 
BlissfullyLoving's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
nono, if you did not get an ultrasound or use the doppler do you think you would go 9 months without knowing what is going on? You can use a fetascope to listen to the heartbeat. You also would feel the baby's movement. I think that you would have an idea. Even a good midwife, or ob, can feel the baby for position and size. My midwife knew ds's weight to the ounce.

Ultrasounds are not guaranteed to find every problem either. Most times they show the possibility of a problem and you need further testing to get a conslusive answer. If you wanted answers you could just go straight to the testing, but even that is not always conclusive. You have to get rather invasive to get definitive answers. Would you do that anyway?

Lastly, there are degrees of risk. 3-d ultrasounds are much riskier then the older weaker ultrasounds. Transvaginal is riskier then abdominal, and the doppler is the least risky.

Good luck with your decision. I know the information is scary. You have to decide what is best for you. Perhaps the reassurances of the heartbeat at 12 weeks with the doppler is worth the risk to you...I know it is to me.
BlissfullyLoving is offline  
#3 of 77 Old 10-11-2008, 09:44 PM
 
maxwill129's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlissfullyLoving View Post
Perhaps the reassurances of the heartbeat at 12 weeks with the doppler is worth the risk to you...I know it is to me.
That's how I feel. As far as a u/s, I don't know. I REALLY want to find out the sex of this baby. Dumb, I know, but we gave away EVERYTHING and I really want to buy girly diapers, clothes, etc if it's a girl. Plus, I really want the kids to feel more attatched to the baby and I think that would help, but I don't want to worry about the risks. Too much thinking and decision making!
maxwill129 is offline  
#4 of 77 Old 10-11-2008, 09:52 PM
 
kriket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 4,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm still up in the air on this, does anyone have a good link?

I'm crunchy... Like a Dorito.
Mama to Sprout jog.gif 4.09 and Bruises babyboy.gif 7.11 handfasted to superhero.gif 9.07

kriket is offline  
#5 of 77 Old 10-11-2008, 10:05 PM
 
tulipmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 227
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I looked at the research (there are a ton of links in prior posts on this board) and for this pg decided to have as 12 week u/s to see all was well, a 20week anatomy u/s (plus to find out gender) and that is all. No doppler-- which is fine b/c I can feel baby move. I will permit doppler during labor. Dopplers actually emit more sound waves than ultrasounds b/c dopplers emit constant sound waves whole ultrasounds emit intermittent sound waves. So I decided to fore-go the doppler and have 2 ultrasounds. My midwife uses a fetascope during appts., but that is more for his practice-- I can feel the baby move and that reassures me. If I ever have reason to worry, then I will change my plans accordingly.
tulipmama is offline  
#7 of 77 Old 10-11-2008, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
no5no5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlissfullyLoving View Post
nono, if you did not get an ultrasound or use the doppler do you think you would go 9 months without knowing what is going on?
Well, I would worry myself sick. I mean, what if there was spina bifida or placenta previa or something that would require a c-section? No amount of kicking and feeling is going to tell me that stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlissfullyLoving View Post
You have to get rather invasive to get definitive answers. Would you do that anyway?
I don't know. When I was pregnant with DD, all the tests came back perfect, so I didn't have to worry. I know that didn't happen with you, and I recognize that false alarms could happen, but I think personally I would rather be upset over nothing than not know something serious. Maybe I would change my mind if I had had a different experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlissfullyLoving View Post
Lastly, there are degrees of risk. 3-d ultrasounds are much riskier then the older weaker ultrasounds. Transvaginal is riskier then abdominal, and the doppler is the least risky.
Do you have a source on that? I was not able to find anything that really differentiated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kriket View Post
I'm still up in the air on this, does anyone have a good link?
It all started with http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/ultrasound.asp. But I've been searching on pubmed.com, and I've been finding a lot of statements of medical organizations warning practitioners that minimal use is required, and stating that most practitioners have no clue what they're doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tulipmama View Post
I looked at the research (there are a ton of links in prior posts on this board) and for this pg decided to have as 12 week u/s to see all was well, a 20week anatomy u/s (plus to find out gender) and that is all. No doppler-- which is fine b/c I can feel baby move. I will permit doppler during labor. Dopplers actually emit more sound waves than ultrasounds b/c dopplers emit constant sound waves whole ultrasounds emit intermittent sound waves. So I decided to fore-go the doppler and have 2 ultrasounds. My midwife uses a fetascope during appts., but that is more for his practice-- I can feel the baby move and that reassures me. If I ever have reason to worry, then I will change my plans accordingly.
Hmm. That's an interesting strategy. I'm not sure my midwife usually does an anatomy u/s. I know she usually does Doppler. My OB has scheduled me for an early ultrasound, but I am thinking of canceling. I guess what I need to do is to call her & see if she has any justification that can convince me.

I don't know. I am soooo paranoid, and of course I'd love to have a peak in there, which is why I am so torn. DH told me that if the ultrasound is not going to change the plan of treatment, and if I get it and something goes wrong I will blame myself, then I had better not get it. That way I can't blame myself if something does go wrong. But then, if something goes wrong that a later ultrasound could have fixed, e.g., by convincing me to get a c-section, I will still blame myself. Okay, I am done ranting for now. Thanks to everyone for the advice. And if anyone has more, keep it coming.
no5no5 is offline  
#8 of 77 Old 10-11-2008, 10:40 PM
 
kangaroomum25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 909
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Really, I think if it's that important, just do a quick scan in the 3rd trimester. Doesnt have to take long at all.
kangaroomum25 is offline  
#9 of 77 Old 10-11-2008, 10:45 PM
 
PassionateWriter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by no5no5 View Post
Meaning, how the heck will I find out if the baby has serious birth defects? Can I really be expected to go 9 months without any idea what the heck is in there???
there are many women who have NO u/s's and NO dopplers used during pregnancy and do just fine.
PassionateWriter is offline  
#10 of 77 Old 10-11-2008, 10:49 PM
 
RachaelsMommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think I've decided not to have any u/s. An early u/s won't reassure me, b/c I know several people who have m/c'd after seeing a heartbeat. If something is wrong with the baby, I don't want to know. I want to enjoy the pregnancy and bond with the baby. I also don't want to be treated like a ticking time bomb. From what I've read, babies not diagnosed prior to birth are more likely to survive some conditions. I think doctors are too quick to induce early or have a c/s when something is wrong. My friend's baby was diagnosed with Congenital Diaphragmatic Hernia at 20 weeks. She was induced 2 weeks early. Her little girl died 15 days later. Not saying that is what caused her death, but I would think 2-3 more weeks in the womb could have made her stronger.

Erin~ Mommy to 3 curly-headed children and expecting #4 in December. ***4***8***12**16***20***24***28***32***36***40**
RachaelsMommy is offline  
#11 of 77 Old 10-11-2008, 10:54 PM
 
kangaroomum25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 909
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was thinking about how many women I've seen go in only not to see a heartbeat and have to wait a couple weeks sometimes (unless they go the d&c route) to miscarry and how hard that is. I think I'd rather not know ahead of time, but that's just me.
kangaroomum25 is offline  
#12 of 77 Old 10-11-2008, 11:25 PM
 
tubulidentata2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kingsport, TN
Posts: 366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have read several times that one minute of Doppler exposure is equivalent to 35 minutes of real time ultrasound exposure . I would prefer ultrasound, but we'll just have to see if anything comes up to know if we need either.

DH doesn't worry about it at all, but since ultrasounds aren't recommended for routine pregnancies, I don't see a good reason to get one normally. However, I have had a C-section, so perhaps my midwife will recommend one to verify placental placement.

If I were unsure of my dates, and if I were seeing a care provider who would give me a hard time about going "overdue", I might consider an early ultrasound.
tubulidentata2 is offline  
#13 of 77 Old 10-12-2008, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
no5no5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassionateWriter View Post
there are many women who have NO u/s's and NO dopplers used during pregnancy and do just fine.
Oh, I am well aware that the vast majority of births take place with nothing like Doppler or ultrasound. I am also well aware that I am totally spoiled and selfish. It's hard being spoiled and selfish and having to give something up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RachaelsMommy View Post
I think I've decided not to have any u/s. An early u/s won't reassure me, b/c I know several people who have m/c'd after seeing a heartbeat. If something is wrong with the baby, I don't want to know. I want to enjoy the pregnancy and bond with the baby. I also don't want to be treated like a ticking time bomb. From what I've read, babies not diagnosed prior to birth are more likely to survive some conditions. I think doctors are too quick to induce early or have a c/s when something is wrong. My friend's baby was diagnosed with Congenital Diaphragmatic Hernia at 20 weeks. She was induced 2 weeks early. Her little girl died 15 days later. Not saying that is what caused her death, but I would think 2-3 more weeks in the womb could have made her stronger.
I also know someone (a close friend) who miscarried after a normal early ultrasound. So I agree I will not feel super reassured. But I do think I would want to know if there were something wrong. I don't think I would let anyone talk me into being induced, pretty much no matter what, but some conditions DO require c-section, and I would definitely like to know about those in advance.

But I also have read something that indicated that outcomes are not significantly improved in normal pregnancies as a result of ultrasound. And that is pretty convincing. Of course, then it went on to say that ultrasound is useful in determining which pregnancies are normal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kangaroomum25 View Post
I was thinking about how many women I've seen go in only not to see a heartbeat and have to wait a couple weeks sometimes (unless they go the d&c route) to miscarry and how hard that is. I think I'd rather not know ahead of time, but that's just me.
Personally, I would like some warning. I feel like it would make it easier. I could be wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubulidentata2 View Post
I have read several times that one minute of Doppler exposure is equivalent to 35 minutes of real time ultrasound exposure . I would prefer ultrasound, but we'll just have to see if anything comes up to know if we need either.
Hm. Do you remember where you read about the relative exposure of Doppler and ultrasound?
no5no5 is offline  
#14 of 77 Old 10-12-2008, 08:40 AM
 
BlissfullyLoving's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by no5no5 View Post
I don't think I would let anyone talk me into being induced, pretty much no matter what, but some conditions DO require c-section, and I would definitely like to know about those in advance.

Hm. Do you remember where you read about the relative exposure of Doppler and ultrasound?
I know a woman that had placenta previa undiagnosed with ultrasounds. She had an emergency c-section when her placenta detached at home, unplanned. Mommy and baby were perfectly healthy. After her birth I did some research, and there are many situations that previa goes undiagnosed with ultrasound.

Do you think that your at increased risk for spina bifida? From what I have read and heard if you are taking folic acid the chances of your child having a problem is very, very small.

I am too tired to respond to everything right now. I do want to answer the question about my source for relative risk on ultrasounds. I heard from my midwife (that uses neither ultrasound or doppler) and on mdc. I did not do much more research.

I would love to see the info that said that doppler exposure was much stronger then ultrasound. I have never heard that 30 seconds of the doppler was the same as a 35 minute ultrasound.
BlissfullyLoving is offline  
#15 of 77 Old 10-12-2008, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
no5no5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlissfullyLoving View Post
I know a woman that had placenta previa undiagnosed with ultrasounds. She had an emergency c-section when her placenta detached at home, unplanned. Mommy and baby were perfectly healthy. After her birth I did some research, and there are many situations that previa goes undiagnosed with ultrasound.

Do you think that your at increased risk for spina bifida? From what I have read and heard if you are taking folic acid the chances of your child having a problem is very, very small.

I am too tired to respond to everything right now. I do want to answer the question about my source for relative risk on ultrasounds. I heard from my midwife (that uses neither ultrasound or doppler) and on mdc. I did not do much more research.

I would love to see the info that said that doppler exposure was much stronger then ultrasound. I have never heard that 30 seconds of the doppler was the same as a 35 minute ultrasound.
No, I am not at increased risk of spina bifida, or any birth defects other than deafness (which obviously would not change the birth plan). I think the end result of this whole thread is that I am feeling much more confident. Maybe I don't need any of it. I mean, I _know_ I don't need any of it, but maybe I don't even _want_ any of it. We will see how DH feels about my new thoughts when he gets home (yes, he is at work again).

Again, thanks to everyone for your excellent and diverse opinions.
no5no5 is offline  
#16 of 77 Old 10-12-2008, 08:54 AM
 
BlissfullyLoving's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by no5no5 View Post
No, I am not at increased risk of spina bifida, or any birth defects other than deafness (which obviously would not change the birth plan). I think the end result of this whole thread is that I am feeling much more confident. Maybe I don't need any of it. I mean, I _know_ I don't need any of it, but maybe I don't even _want_ any of it. We will see how DH feels about my new thoughts when he gets home (yes, he is at work again).

Again, thanks to everyone for your excellent and diverse opinions.
That is great. I really do believe that you have to assess the risk to benefit ratio anytime you do anything. We all have our different reasons for prenatal monitoring, but I believe that we are doing the best we can.
BlissfullyLoving is offline  
#17 of 77 Old 10-12-2008, 09:39 AM
 
ann_of_loxley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Gloucestershire, UK
Posts: 5,454
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
See...I didnt know with my DS either, but I will not be getting doppler or scans with this pregnancy (or any others I may have!) because I know the risks now and this is how I see it... If there was something wrong...nothing I could do about it anyhow! A doppler or U/S might inform me fo what I could not see or hear from where my own head is, so for me there really is no point. It was fun with my son because I found out the sex - and though I wasnt worried, could have been for another woman when they said they thought something was wrong with his kidneys (which there wasnt in the end!)...but I dont need to know the sex this time around. For me, I am sticking without.
You can however buy your own fetoscope and/or they have microphone type 'dopplers' (not real dopplers) that you can use after about 20 weeks of pregnancy so you can use it anytime anyday in your own home if you wish - I did with my DS and it was nice to have that reassurance - so I know how wanting that feels.

Mummy me : > Thats Ann! and my beautiful SONS Duncanand Hamish 19/09/05 & 22/04/10!
ann_of_loxley is offline  
#18 of 77 Old 10-12-2008, 09:42 AM
 
BlissfullyLoving's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ann,
I thought the take home things to listen to the heartbeat were dopplers. What are they?

I just looked around, and I could only find home use fetal dopplers and fetascopes. What did you have?
BlissfullyLoving is offline  
#19 of 77 Old 10-12-2008, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
no5no5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ann_of_loxley View Post
See...I didnt know with my DS either, but I will not be getting doppler or scans with this pregnancy (or any others I may have!) because I know the risks now and this is how I see it... If there was something wrong...nothing I could do about it anyhow! A doppler or U/S might inform me fo what I could not see or hear from where my own head is, so for me there really is no point. It was fun with my son because I found out the sex - and though I wasnt worried, could have been for another woman when they said they thought something was wrong with his kidneys (which there wasnt in the end!)...but I dont need to know the sex this time around. For me, I am sticking without.
You can however buy your own fetoscope and/or they have microphone type 'dopplers' (not real dopplers) that you can use after about 20 weeks of pregnancy so you can use it anytime anyday in your own home if you wish - I did with my DS and it was nice to have that reassurance - so I know how wanting that feels.
DH is actually a doctor , so we will use his stethoscope when we get to 20 weeks or so. But by then I'll be able to feel baby move anyway. So, yeah. It's a good thing, because we totally can't afford to rent anything. Plus, I'd be sitting there listening oh, say, 20 hours a day.

But man, I had not even really considered what it would mean to not know baby's sex until birth...what is my MIL going to shop for??? Is she going to send an equal number of hideous boy & girl outfits? Will she be limited to unisex?? Will she actually wait until after the birth to start shopping??? Oh, wait, I know. She will intuitively "know" which sex the baby will have and will shop accordingly. Darn. For a minute there I thought I was going to get a baby-junk-gifts reprieve.
no5no5 is offline  
#20 of 77 Old 10-12-2008, 09:55 AM
 
BlissfullyLoving's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by no5no5 View Post
But man, I had not even really considered what it would mean to not know baby's sex until birth...what is my MIL going to shop for??? Is she going to send an equal number of hideous boy & girl outfits? Will she be limited to unisex?? Will she actually wait until after the birth to start shopping??? Oh, wait, I know. She will intuitively "know" which sex the baby will have and will shop accordingly. Darn. For a minute there I thought I was going to get a baby-junk-gifts reprieve.
I would suggest (if you know the sex or not) you tell people to wait until after the birth to bring gifts, and just get a few essentials before (or use what you already have). Kids grow through things different anyway. It is just a better investment to have an idea of what size your baby is and how fast they grow before splurging.
BlissfullyLoving is offline  
#21 of 77 Old 10-12-2008, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
no5no5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlissfullyLoving View Post
I would suggest (if you know the sex or not) you tell people to wait until after the birth to bring gifts, and just get a few essentials before (or use what you already have). Kids grow through things different anyway. It is just a better investment to have an idea of what size your baby is and how fast they grow before splurging.
Oh, believe me, if there was anything on earth I could tell her that would keep her from shopping, I would do it. Sadly, she spends ridiculous amounts of money buying ridiculous amounts of absolutely hideous junk that we absolutely do not want and try as we might we cannot stop her. I was joking about it earlier, but it is actually really sad. She is on disability and has huge amounts of debt that she has no hope of ever repaying, and she spends her disability check on things that we literally throw away. We have tried & tried to get her to stop, but she can't do it. The last thing she needs is an excuse to spend more. Hmmm...maybe we can get away with not even telling her until baby is born. If we do tell her when baby is due, she is likely to plan a trip to visit us around that time, and the last thing I need when I am in labor is my crazy MIL hovering.
no5no5 is offline  
#22 of 77 Old 10-12-2008, 10:10 AM
 
seafox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Does anyone have a link to the doppler/u/s comparison info?

My ob/gyn doesn't do u/s at her practice, but they do the Doppler at 12 weeks on. Ill ask when and if she switches to a fetoscope I guess.

I am now thinking of skipping my 8.5wk u/s. I will get the 12wk one anyway (the nuchal translucency scan) simply for reassurance and since I am not sure what I'd do with certain birth defects (if incompatible w/ life) and would want to know.

Its only 3 more weeks, I'm thinking, and I guess I'm feeling that I don't want bad news delivered vaginally.

so 12wk, 20wks, and then fetoscope seems like a good plan.

I live in a big city, so everyone I know pretty much gets u/s, some early, etc. So I hadn't really thought about risks or issues with it at all before!

mom to z (June 2009) and m (may 2011)

seafox is offline  
#23 of 77 Old 10-12-2008, 10:16 AM
 
KatWrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Affton, MO
Posts: 11,112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlissfullyLoving View Post
Do you think that your at increased risk for spina bifida? From what I have read and heard if you are taking folic acid the chances of your child having a problem is very, very small.
Not in your DDC, uh not even pregnant. I had to comment on this.

Here is some info on causes of Spina Bifida:



http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/s...ina_bifida.htm
Quote:
What causes spina bifida?

The exact cause of spina bifida remains a mystery. No one knows what disrupts complete closure of the neural tube, causing a malformation to develop. Scientists suspect genetic, nutritional, and environmental factors play a role. Research studies indicate that insufficient intake of folic acid—a common B vitamin—in the mother’s diet is a key factor in causing spina bifida and other neural tube defects. Prenatal vitamins that are prescribed for the pregnant mother typically contain folic acid as well as other vitamins. (See “Can the disorder be prevented?” below for more information on folic acid.)
Quote:
What is spina bifida?

Spina bifida, which literally means “cleft spine,” is characterized by the incomplete development of the brain, spinal cord, and/or meninges (the protective covering around the brain and spinal cord). It is the most common neural tube defect in the United States—affecting 1,500 to 2,000 of the more than 4 million babies born in the country each year.
My daughter has a form of Spina Bifida called lipomyelomeningocele (as well as tethered spinal cord, neurogenic bladder and neurogenic bowel). So I had to comment on this.

Anne, Mama to Conner 2/27/04 blahblah.gif  Gabrielle 2/6/06 W/LMC-TCS, Neurogenic Bladder, AFO & KAFO wearer, Neurogenic Bowel energy.gif & Delaney 5/12/08 mischievous.gif &  Beethoven cat.gif& Gizmo cat.gif

KatWrangler is offline  
#24 of 77 Old 10-12-2008, 10:19 AM
 
BlissfullyLoving's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by no5no5 View Post
Oh, believe me, if there was anything on earth I could tell her that would keep her from shopping, I would do it. Sadly, she spends ridiculous amounts of money buying ridiculous amounts of absolutely hideous junk that we absolutely do not want and try as we might we cannot stop her. I was joking about it earlier, but it is actually really sad. She is on disability and has huge amounts of debt that she has no hope of ever repaying, and she spends her disability check on things that we literally throw away. We have tried & tried to get her to stop, but she can't do it. The last thing she needs is an excuse to spend more. Hmmm...maybe we can get away with not even telling her until baby is born. If we do tell her when baby is due, she is likely to plan a trip to visit us around that time, and the last thing I need when I am in labor is my crazy MIL hovering.
Is there anything you can do to steer her towards the goods you actually want? Like, "MIL I know how much you love buying things for the little ones, and since we already have dd we will not need the same type of goods as last time. Here is a list of some of the things we would like." Then if she deviates from the list too much (just enough not to leave you stuck with tons of garbage) ask her to return the stuff. Be very appreciative, but remind her that you have from dd or that you just will not need those goods. When you ask her to return stuff give her alternatives to buy instead. Like, we do not need this, but we could really use a snowsuit or something instead.

In my experience (dh has an uncle that has a shopping problem) when you have them returning enough stuff they start to ask what you want before buying garbage. You really have to have them return the stuff themselves though. Do not make it your problem (which I guess means you will have to send it back to her).
BlissfullyLoving is offline  
#25 of 77 Old 10-12-2008, 10:39 AM
 
mama2j&t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We found out that my 4yo would have cleft lip and palate at the 20 week ultrasound. We have no family history or risk factors. I am glad I found out because I was able to prepare for him - especially being prepared to pump from the start since he was unable to nurse. If we had only found out at birth the pumping/feeding would have been more difficult, as well as the visual shock of his extreme birth defect.

When I was pg with my dd next I was starting to question routine u/s but I still felt that I needed to know whether she would have a cleft or not. It was more for my peace of mind because honestly it was very traumatic with my ds#2 during his birth and infancy.

Now with this baby I'm not sure....I am much more questioning of all things in mainstream medicine. My instinct is to just skip all u/s but I don't know... it's a tough call for me.

I know that my experience is rare, but I thought I'd add to this discussion
mama2j&t is offline  
#26 of 77 Old 10-12-2008, 10:46 AM
 
BlissfullyLoving's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama2j&t View Post
We found out that my 4yo would have cleft lip and palate at the 20 week ultrasound. We have no family history or risk factors. I am glad I found out because I was able to prepare for him - especially being prepared to pump from the start since he was unable to nurse. If we had only found out at birth the pumping/feeding would have been more difficult, as well as the visual shock of his extreme birth defect.

When I was pg with my dd next I was starting to question routine u/s but I still felt that I needed to know whether she would have a cleft or not. It was more for my peace of mind because honestly it was very traumatic with my ds#2 during his birth and infancy.

Now with this baby I'm not sure....I am much more questioning of all things in mainstream medicine. My instinct is to just skip all u/s but I don't know... it's a tough call for me.

I know that my experience is rare, but I thought I'd add to this discussion
I know a woman with an infant born with a cleft palate, and another woman with a son born with a cleft lip. Neither was detected during ultrasound. Everyone's experience and need to know potential challenges are different, but there is no guarantee that the ultrasounds will find a problem if one exists. Usually, not always, more invasive testing (stronger 3d ultrasounds, amnio, etc) will need to be done to find definitive answers.
BlissfullyLoving is offline  
#27 of 77 Old 10-12-2008, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
no5no5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlissfullyLoving View Post
Is there anything you can do to steer her towards the goods you actually want? Like, "MIL I know how much you love buying things for the little ones, and since we already have dd we will not need the same type of goods as last time. Here is a list of some of the things we would like." Then if she deviates from the list too much (just enough not to leave you stuck with tons of garbage) ask her to return the stuff. Be very appreciative, but remind her that you have from dd or that you just will not need those goods. When you ask her to return stuff give her alternatives to buy instead. Like, we do not need this, but we could really use a snowsuit or something instead.

In my experience (dh has an uncle that has a shopping problem) when you have them returning enough stuff they start to ask what you want before buying garbage. You really have to have them return the stuff themselves though. Do not make it your problem (which I guess means you will have to send it back to her).
That sounds like good advice, and maybe I _should_ send things back to her, but...

First of all, most of the stuff she sends is not worth the postage that it would take to send it back. And I don't have money to waste. Second of all, the stuff we like is expensive--we don't buy a lot, but we do buy quality (when we buy at all). So I would hate to ask her for that kind of stuff. Third, we already have everything we need for the next, oh, 2 or 3 years. I shop ahead when I can find a good sale, and MIL shops ahead because she is aware that we already have more clothes in DD's size than we can fit in DD's dresser. And more toys than a daycare center. Fourth, it would make her cry. And I _hate_ making people cry.

Also, to the extent that she does try to buy the kinds of things we actually want (e.g., cloth diapers), she almost always gets it wrong. So if I were to give her a list, it would have to be _very_ explicit. And then I'd have to come up with a dollar amount I wouldn't mind her spending, which I can't do because I don't want her spending _anything_, and no matter what dollar amount I came up with she would invariably go over it.

DH has had 3-4 talks with MIL in which he told her in no uncertain terms that we do not want her shopping for us, that we do not want the things she buys, that it makes us feel bad when she shops for us, and that if she buys us any more things we will just throw them away. She cried every time (as you can imagine) and was shopping for us again within the month. And DH is able to be mean to her because she is his mom, but I just can't be. So she sneaks things to me and says, "I know I'm not supposed to be shopping for you, but this was so (insert adjective) and it was only (insert price)...please don't tell DH I bought it." UGH. I try to say things like, "Yes, that is (adjective) and (price) sounds like a good deal, but we really do not need it, so please do not buy anything else." But she does not respond to anything that is not totally explicit.

Okay, I have hijacked my own thread. Maybe we should start a crazy in-laws thread. I will keep you posted on what happens when she finds out I'm pregnant.
no5no5 is offline  
#28 of 77 Old 10-12-2008, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
no5no5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatWrangler View Post
My daughter has a form of Spina Bifida called lipomyelomeningocele (as well as tethered spinal cord, neurogenic bladder and neurogenic bowel). So I had to comment on this.
Thanks for sharing the article. Did you find out before the birth? Did it make a difference in your birth plan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mama2j&t View Post
We found out that my 4yo would have cleft lip and palate at the 20 week ultrasound. We have no family history or risk factors. I am glad I found out because I was able to prepare for him - especially being prepared to pump from the start since he was unable to nurse. If we had only found out at birth the pumping/feeding would have been more difficult, as well as the visual shock of his extreme birth defect.
But other than the pumping thing, it didn't change your birth plan? I have pumped before (I worked when DD was a baby), so I wouldn't be super worried about that for myself. But it is a good point. I feel like when DD was born she could have looked like a monkey and I would have loved her just as much. But maybe it would have been really traumatic if she'd been born with a problem that I hadn't known about beforehand.
no5no5 is offline  
#29 of 77 Old 10-12-2008, 11:05 AM
 
BlissfullyLoving's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Grr, I just lost my response nono.

Basically, I think it would hurt your MIL's feelings much less if you worked with her in her desire to buy your little ones stuff. If she is spending the same amount of money on junk that you throw away not make her a list of quality stuff that you want. I am sure you alraedy have a great idea of exactly what stuff that you want, so it should not be too much trouble to share. It is ultimately her decision to spend her money where she wants. Why not get stuff that you can use, and be appreciative of, instead of stuff that you hate and throw away?

By the way, my other response dealt with all the guilt and other suggestions. You got the short version now.
BlissfullyLoving is offline  
#30 of 77 Old 10-12-2008, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
no5no5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlissfullyLoving View Post
Grr, I just lost my response nono.

Basically, I think it would hurt your MIL's feelings much less if you worked with her in her desire to buy your little ones stuff. If she is spending the same amount of money on junk that you throw away not make her a list of quality stuff that you want. I am sure you alraedy have a great idea of exactly what stuff that you want, so it should not be too much trouble to share. It is ultimately her decision to spend her money where she wants. Why not get stuff that you can use, and be appreciative of, instead of stuff that you hate and throw away?

By the way, my other response dealt with all the guilt and other suggestions. You got the short version now.
I hate it when I lose a long response. The thing is--we really don't need ANYTHING. We need one new carseat. Everything else--we saved everything we used for DD. And it was mostly unisex/boy because we hate girly pink stuff. Most of DDs diapers are still usable, and this time I will make more diapers if we need them. I already have the fabric. So literally, all I can think that I need to buy is a carseat. Maybe a lightweight sling for the summer--but I can make that myself too. I guess if I have a homebirth, I will need some supplies. Maybe I can set her on that.
no5no5 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off