Holding a child back- 1st grade - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 58 Old 04-21-2009, 03:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
KMK_Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Gahhhh!! I come here and I start to think I should just move her forward and then I talk to the teacher and she almost convinces me to hold her back. I'm having an incredibly hard time with this!

I will say that although she says she dislikes school, when I pick her up she always says she had a good day and she says she only likes school because she has friends there. If she could go to school and play all day and have no work she would be in heaven! LOL

I will ask the school about getting her assessed, but from what I understand it takes a while? With it being so close to the end of the year will they even do it now? I am supposed to make this decision within a few weeks.

I also called an eye doctor whose number I got off the previous link who does the sensory motor eye exam. They said it costs $150 and that if it's an issue the 10 months of therapy is $5000. Yikes.

: Robyn : Increasingly crunchy Mama to Kya (8) , Makena (7) , and Keegan (4) :
KMK_Mama is offline  
#32 of 58 Old 04-21-2009, 03:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
KMK_Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labyrinth View Post
Does she ever close one eye when reading?
She got a pretty bad scratch on her eye last October where she had to wear a contact lens to act as a bandaid for a few days to let it heal. Since then she complains about her eyes all the time and she rubs them when she is reading. I think I have witnessed her closing an eye occasionally but I just assumed it was from her eye injury. Then she asks for her eye drops. She also loses her place while reading, etc, but I thought it was because she is a pretty new reader and needed to fine tune her reading skills. I'll pay more attention tomorrow when she reads to me.

: Robyn : Increasingly crunchy Mama to Kya (8) , Makena (7) , and Keegan (4) :
KMK_Mama is offline  
#33 of 58 Old 04-21-2009, 04:22 AM
 
Labyrinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 244
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
never yelled at about closing my eye- but I had an awesome first grade teacher

OP: I had strabismus- basically my eyes didn't line up, the muscle which controls them wasn't strong enough, making it hard to read. I would close one eye to compensate. I guess I was probably seeing double, although I don't really remember how I saw before I had glasses. I briefly had at home therapy for it, which I hated with a passion- they made me wear an eye patch and do activities like coloring designed to strengthen my eye muscles. I ended up having was "prisms" put in my glasses, which compensated for the misaligned eyes.

Most doctors did not catch it until my mom told them I was having trouble reading, and closing one eye. She took me for two second opinions, lol. For your daughter, I would watch her read and see if she is closing one eye, if she is tell the doctor that and he should be able to screen for it .

Oh, and with homework I might see if you can get her to do it in the morning instead and see if it helps.
Labyrinth is offline  
#34 of 58 Old 04-21-2009, 12:15 PM
 
ChristaN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMK_Mama View Post
I had a heart to heart with her yesterday and she told me she does NOT want to be in the same grade as her sister and she wants to go to 2nd grade with her friends. But then today after talking to her teacher I told her some of the perks of going into "regular 1st" like being older, being better at reading and then she will know everything better when she goes to 2nd grade the following year and she seemed excited about that.
I am completely in support of letting children have some say over their lives, but IMHO she is too young to have significant input into this decision. She doesn't have enough life experience to understand the long-term ramifications and there are bound to be difficulties with either decision you make. My parents let us believe that we had a lot of input into whether we moved states when I was a child and I was excited about it and felt that I had "okayed" the move. When I had difficulties with the change, I felt responsible and depressed b/c I owned the decision.

IMO it is kinder to the child and takes a weight off of her shoulders to listen to her input, but let her know that the adults in her life will be making the decision for her b/c they are older and have more experience with this type of thing. It seems like you have a few options here:

1) keep her at the same school and in the regular 1st grade class (possible drawbacks include stigma, being in the same grade as sister, and not fixing the problem if there is an actual LD)
2) keep her at the same school and in the 2nd grade class (possible drawbacks include her continuing to be or feel behind and not fixing the problem if there is an actual LD)
3) move her to the ps in 2nd grade after going to see how those classes look (possible drawbacks include losing a school that you obviously value and feel is worthwhile)
4) have private assessment done to look for LD or see if she is just fine, but is just in a poor fit in terms of expectations (cost is the issue here I would assume) and then decide what to do.

I'd be inclined to go with #4 if you can afford it. If not, I'd look at #3 next. I'm not sure what I'd do if #s 1 and 2 are your only choices in terms of placement next fall. I absolutely would not hold her younger sister back due to her needs, though. That is unfair to your younger dd and not all younger children benefit from the extra time. Both of my girls are young for grade and, while I don't know how my younger one would have done with an extra year, it would have been a disaster for my oldest. She has always been academically at the top of her class even as the youngest in the grade and socially fits much, much better with older kids.
ChristaN is offline  
#35 of 58 Old 04-21-2009, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
KMK_Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristaN View Post
IMO it is kinder to the child and takes a weight off of her shoulders to listen to her input, but let her know that the adults in her life will be making the decision for her b/c they are older and have more experience with this type of thing.
I should have explained that better. I told her I wanted her input, I listened to what she had to say and then I told her that Mommy and Daddy and her teacher are going to have to make a decision for what we think is best for her. I would never let her MAKE the decision.

Where would I go about having a private assessment done?

: Robyn : Increasingly crunchy Mama to Kya (8) , Makena (7) , and Keegan (4) :
KMK_Mama is offline  
#36 of 58 Old 04-21-2009, 02:04 PM
 
ChristaN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound accusatory .

In re to private assessments, we've generally had the best luck with licensed psychologists. My oldest was assessed by someone with expertise in gifted kids b/c we were fairly certain that was part of the issue she was having at school (IQ, self esteem, and achievement test, as well as a few other things). We're seriously considering further testing for dd#2 b/c we're concerned about learning disabilities. She's had IQ testing done previously which indicates that she is more able than her sister, but her achievement is not in line with that and she has very, very erratic test scores, fatigue, frustration and other things that are concerning us.

For dd#2, I've had to do some searching. The woman we are probably going to go with is a psychologist who works at our local university and has a lot of experience with psychological assessment and some with twice exceptional kids. What she told me was that she wanted to do multiple ability tests (2-3 IQ tests or tests which are similar to IQ such as the SB-5, WISC-IV [maybe, she's already been tested on that measure] and the RIAS) as well as the Woodcock-Johnson III achievement test. From what she told me, the WJ-III is designed to help ferret out LDs. Apparently they look at the full-scale IQ and, if there is a 1.5-2 standard deviation difference btwn that and certain scores on the WJ-III it indicates a LD. She also tells me that they are able to ascertain what those LDs are, if they exist, based upon where the weaknesses on the WJ fall.

If there is a university with a psychology dept within an hour or so of you, I'd start by calling them to see if they can provide you with a referral. If not, I'd try calling local psychologists, explaining the concerns, and seeing if any of them have any experience with assessing for learning disabilities.
ChristaN is offline  
#37 of 58 Old 04-21-2009, 02:10 PM
 
ChristaN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just wanted to add that I wouldn't be convinced that your dd has a learning disability this early in the game. First grade is awfully young and there are a lot of kids who just aren't ready to read well and focus that well at such a young age. The only reason I'd do the assessment is to rule it out so you know what her needs are going to be.

Educational research generally shows that younger kids (like yours) tend to be a little behind academically for the first few years and then catch up by 3rd grade. If there is nothing wrong with her, but she just needs more time, I would be inclined to move her to 2nd and let her catch up as she matures. The only problem then would be expectations and her getting the message that she isn't measuring up which is a lot more problematic for her long term success than how well she reads at 6 y/o.

Educational research also does not support holding these younger kids back a year as being beneficial for them in the long-run if the only issue is age. If there is a LD, like others have mentioned, it also isn't going to fix that LD. She'd need to be taught differently.
ChristaN is offline  
#38 of 58 Old 04-21-2009, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
KMK_Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I wanted to thank everyone for the help. Although I think all the diverse opinions may be making this decision harder, I really want to know all sides before I make the decision.

I called the school this morning and asked about getting her assessed and the secretary left a message with the principal who is supposed to call me back. From what it sounds like, getting an assessment is a long drawn out process and because it's so close to the end of the year it most likely wouldn't be done in time to make the decision, but even speaking with the principal and getting her opinion may help. I guess then I'll take it from there and update.

: Robyn : Increasingly crunchy Mama to Kya (8) , Makena (7) , and Keegan (4) :
KMK_Mama is offline  
#39 of 58 Old 04-21-2009, 03:24 PM
 
eepster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: growing in the Garden State ............
Posts: 9,510
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMK_Mama View Post
I will say that although she says she dislikes school, when I pick her up she always says she had a good day and she says she only likes school because she has friends there.
This would make me very, very motivated to keep her with her friends.

Timmy's Mommy WARNINGyslexic typing with help of preschooler, beware of typos
eepster is offline  
#40 of 58 Old 04-21-2009, 06:53 PM
 
Labyrinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 244
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
In writing you want to submit a request for a Case Study for Special Education Services. Within 60 school days or 90 calendar days they must to the case study. After the case study they have 30 days to complete the IEP if she is found to need special education services. I believe everything has to happen within the 90 calander days- as in, legally they cannot take 120 days (although schools have been known to do so). My guess is this would all happen in the summer. A private assessment before the case study can help- Chris is Autistic and had a visit with a developmental pediatrician before his case study. By having the diagnosis before hand it made it easier to get him into services.

If she has a disability that does not need an IEP, she can get a 504 plan. A 504 plan would specify any accommodations she needs. It would not provide services, though, just accommodations.

Good luck!
Labyrinth is offline  
#41 of 58 Old 04-21-2009, 10:31 PM
kwg
 
kwg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 182
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
When I was teaching, I had a little boy that by the end of first grade could not read. Like the word 'the'! He could read the word but only if it was in the middle of the sentence. If the sentence started with 'The', it threw him. Anyway, by third grade he was accepted into a gifted school.....he just needed more time. Once it clicked, it clicked!

I think she is awful young to worry about an LD also.

I am sorry she doesn't like school. That is hard. I would definitely try to keep her with her friends (if I didn't put her in another school or take her out altogether for a while.....). I also would stop fighting about homework and let her do it in the car on the way to school if that is what works for her.

I would think that you can make a decision by the 'deadline' they are giving you but it isn't written in stone until next school year......you could see how she does this summer and how much improvement etc. goes on and then tell them you changed your mind if need be (although that would work better with going back to first than the other way around I would guess). I am not sure why they are pressuring now.....
kwg is offline  
#42 of 58 Old 04-21-2009, 11:41 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 719
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMK_Mama View Post
She got a pretty bad scratch on her eye last October where she had to wear a contact lens to act as a bandaid for a few days to let it heal. Since then she complains about her eyes all the time and she rubs them when she is reading. I think I have witnessed her closing an eye occasionally but I just assumed it was from her eye injury. Then she asks for her eye drops. She also loses her place while reading, etc, but I thought it was because she is a pretty new reader and needed to fine tune her reading skills. I'll pay more attention tomorrow when she reads to me.
Jumping in late here, but I would really have this followed up by an eye doctor -- could the eye injury still be affecting her reading/perception and causing many of the perceived learning problems? and good luck as you make decisions!

Amy & DH, homeschooling Mama to
DD 9 love.gif DS 7 yrs   
ChinaDoll is offline  
#43 of 58 Old 04-22-2009, 12:24 PM
 
darcytrue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: here and there
Posts: 2,653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by octobermom View Post
it sounds like she needs to be evulated. Things like reversing letters in first grade are still common but if she is always doing it it may be something more same with her tanrums about doing the work ect it sounds like more than just basic maturity.
I agree. My DD is in 1st grade homeschool right now and she fights me on every single subject most days. The thing is that I know she knows the material since I definitely go over it all with her and she will still act like she is confused and needs more help but yet does the problems perfect on her own. She has a couple of weak areas, like math, but I am not planning to hold her back in all subjects because of it.

If I were you I'd plan a meeting with the teacher or whoever you need to talk with at the school about her grade level next year and talk about where she is weakest at and if it's just one or two areas that are giving her trouble then maybe you can plan to put her in 2nd next year but also work with her over the summer or get a tutor.

Proud *single* mom to 3 amazing kiddos
darcytrue is offline  
#44 of 58 Old 04-28-2009, 02:46 PM
 
momtoalexsarah's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The great grey county - ontario
Posts: 1,149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We had a simalr situtation with my kids last year. My son was not at all ready for JK in sept 2007 but we sent him anyways because his sister was right on his tail. He had a rotten year, he didn't have the maturity, the teacher sucked and the JK curriculum sucked. They wanted to hold him back - putting both DS and DD in the same class - I said no - move him up. We moved him to SK, new teacher, new attitude towards learning and a little boy with an extra summer of maturity under his belt.
He is now at the top of his SK class, the only thing they really needed to alter for is his short attention span (possible mild ADD) and give him more challenging things to do.
She says she hates school and is board - this is what my son said all the time and he just wasn't being challenged enough in the write ways for him.
Personally, I would have her eyes checked very very well, and put her into 2nd grade and ask the school for some additonal resouces if needed - surely they can give her a little extra help - or ask for a temporary IEP untill she catches up or they determine there is more to this.
momtoalexsarah is offline  
#45 of 58 Old 04-30-2009, 04:20 PM
 
rainyday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,644
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMK_Mama View Post
Some other things....I have her almost caught up on her reading. I almost have her at 2nd grade level according to the reading program we are using. I think she has 8 books left at 1st grade level.

She normally gets pretty good grades on math and spelling tests but occasionally she gets a low score on a math test and has to re-take it. What is so confusing though is the things she gets wrong on math tests, she knows when we go over them the same day at home!

On her state reading test in the middle of the year she got a 30. (I guess that's 30 words in a minute) The teacher said she needs to get a 60 or higher on the next one (in May) to go to 2nd grade so I am still waiting on that. I think she will do fine.
From everything you've said, I'm not quite clear on why the teacher recommends holding her back. Especially after reading what you've written above, I'd really want to sit down with the teacher and get a list of exactly what she sees as the issues (take notes while she talks and then clarify afterward that you understood it correctly). Then, for each issue, I'd want to know what the teacher sees as the end-of-first-grade expectation. Then I'd look at how your daughter compares to that end-of-year expectation on each issue. Sometimes kids will do things at home that they won't do at school, so if the teacher says she can't do something that you do see her doing at home, get some feedback from the teacher about why there might be a difference.

I would also ask the principal if this decision is really carved in stone in the next few weeks or if he/she could give you a little more time to get a specialized eye exam done or see how she does on some other assessments.

I'd ask the teacher to do a timed reading fluency assessment on her now. This takes only a couple of minutes, so she could even keep your daughter in from recess for a few minutes to do it. That will help you see (before you decide) how her oral fluency has improved since she scored the 30.

Then you'll have some real information to make your decision on. Based on what you said, going on to second with a plan in place to help her work on her skills over the summer (and checking into vision tracking issues) doesn't sound like an inappropriate decision.

I know you mentioned Kumon, which is often really helpful for kids in elementary school. The kids I've seen do Kumon all dramatically improved their math achievement at school. The repetition of Kumon and its emphasis on the very basic skills seems to help provide a lot of kids with a strong foundation that they don't always get from school.

Good luck!
rainyday is offline  
#46 of 58 Old 04-30-2009, 09:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
KMK_Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
At this point we have decided to hold her back. :

The teacher did a recent math assessment and she has only mastered 5 out of the 12 skills at first grade level. The reading assessment will be done sometime in the next few weeks.

However, I did cancel the parent-teacher conference because I just didn't see the need a few days ago, but now I think I am going to ask for one. The other night when I talked to my DD she told me that when she was taken to do this math assessment, she was in the middle of eating lunch and said she was hungry and just wanted to hurry and finish the assessment so she could go eat. Uhm, that's not fair! She also told me that she knew the answers but was hoping if she just said she didn't know or whatever that she could be done faster. I don't know if she is telling me the truth about this or not? If nothing else I'd like to see the assessment that was done and talk to the teacher about the things Kya was telling me.

: Robyn : Increasingly crunchy Mama to Kya (8) , Makena (7) , and Keegan (4) :
KMK_Mama is offline  
#47 of 58 Old 04-30-2009, 10:23 PM
 
eepster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: growing in the Garden State ............
Posts: 9,510
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMK_Mama View Post
The other night when I talked to my DD she told me that when she was taken to do this math assessment, she was in the middle of eating lunch and said she was hungry and just wanted to hurry and finish the assessment so she could go eat. Uhm, that's not fair! She also told me that she knew the answers but was hoping if she just said she didn't know or whatever that she could be done faster. I don't know if she is telling me the truth about this or not? If nothing else I'd like to see the assessment that was done and talk to the teacher about the things Kya was telling me.
Do they want her to fail?

Timmy's Mommy WARNINGyslexic typing with help of preschooler, beware of typos
eepster is offline  
#48 of 58 Old 05-04-2009, 11:45 AM
 
Jes'sBeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,797
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You know... kids are really good at 'covering' when they don't know things. I used to tutor a boy who REALLY struggled with essay writing. That kid would talk the paint off the wall to stall. It was a fantastic coping strategy and I had to applaud his efforts even though he was a bit of a bear to work with! We all try our hardest to avoid failing and when we do fail we often make excuses for ourselves. As adults we usually choose to do the things that we're good at and ignore the things that are challenging. Kids have to face the stuff that is hard every day at school. It's wearing on them! Imagine having to fail at something every day!!!

I would pay for the expensive eye exam and go from there. $5000 seems like a lot for possible therapy for sure but $5000 is cheap if it solves years and years of school hardship for your child. I would ask some pointed questions of the teacher but also look at her overall performance on the work she has completed at school. If she is really struggling with the work on her own then I'd guess she is really really good at coping and actually has a very difficult time with the work itself. For example if she doesn't know what a dime looks like but knows that a dime is 10 cents and can count by 10 it's easy to count the money once it's been confirmed what kind of coin it is. Great coping strategy to wait for confirmation on the coin type. There are all sorts of people who through history have been really good at figuring out how to get around their inability. Those are really great skills but, you know, it's a lot easier if you know how to do it by yourself in the first place and it opens up a whole lot more doors.
Fighting about homework every night if you can do it easily and quickly is not common. Once in awhile, sure, but not every night.
Jes'sBeth is offline  
#49 of 58 Old 05-04-2009, 03:09 PM
 
Snugglebunnymama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Do you not have vision insurance to offset the costs of the eye exam?
Snugglebunnymama is offline  
#50 of 58 Old 05-04-2009, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
KMK_Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snugglebunnymama View Post
Do you not have vision insurance to offset the costs of the eye exam?
I just had her eyes checked last month and the insurance pays for an eye exam 1x per year. Apparently the test she needs is not done routinely at her current eye doctor but the other eye doctor I contacted said it would have been done and covered had I gone to them. To get it covered I'd have to wait another year.

: Robyn : Increasingly crunchy Mama to Kya (8) , Makena (7) , and Keegan (4) :
KMK_Mama is offline  
#51 of 58 Old 05-09-2009, 12:42 AM
 
angelandmisha's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 274
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
KMK Mama, from what you've written, I wouldn't hold her back. As some pp's have said, and as a former 2nd grade teacher and reading specialist, it sounds like some of the things she's being asked to do are not developmentally appropriate- fractions, money, telling time. The kids in my classes struggled with those concepts and we just introduced them and exposed them to it but they weren't responsible for those concepts until later.

There is research that shows that retaining children just doesn't work and cause many social problems for the child.

It sounds like there may be some vision issues. Could your original eye doctor give you a referral for the more in-depth exam and would your insurance cover that? Could you ask the second doctor for a rate reduction since your insurance won't cover it?

It sounds like the teacher is pressuring you, but since you're asking about it here, you don't seem convinced. It sounds like you see different performace from your daughter at home than what she shows at school, not atypical I'm sure- she's more comfortable with you. The way that math assessment was done doesn't sound like it would produce the best results! Kids think funny things and if they're wanting to be doing something else, they will just make up stuff to get it over with. I'd think about asking to have the assessment done again, possibly by a different teacher at a time in her day when you feel she's at her best and isn't missing out on her favorite part of the day. That's fair. It is your daughter's education we're talking about after all, the school should be willing to to that for you, for her, given the gravity of the choice they're wanting you to make. I would suggest the same thing with her end of year reading assessment- request that it be done at whatever time of day is her best and not missing anything fun.

Perhaps she doesn't care for her teacher much or the style just doesn't work for her. 1st graders are really so very young and still getting used to this whole school thing- they'd much rather be playing!! I think the suggestion to observe the 2nd grade class she'd be in as well as the public neighborhood 2nd grade is an excellent one. You might also observe her current class to see if you notice anything about the approach that might not mesh well with your daughter's learning style. You know your daughter better than her teacher does. Is this the same teacher your second daughter will have next year? You may not want that either.

I also completely agree that if she dies have a learning disability, holding her back won't fix it and going ahead won't fix it

I'm sure it's really hard to contemplate and hard to know what is right, but trust yourself and your knowledge of your daughter, and check out the vision issues- it could be a very simple explanation(though apparently costly) for her troubles and if it is vision troubles again, holding her back won't fix them and could cause many other problems

Good luck!
Ingrid
angelandmisha is offline  
#52 of 58 Old 05-09-2009, 11:22 AM
 
ChristaN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
KMKmama, are you still wanting input or have you decided to retain her and we're just irritating you by continuing to suggest that you look at other alternatives ?

Quote:
1st graders are really so very young and still getting used to this whole school thing
If you don't mind, I did just want to comment on this, though. It really resonated with me b/c my oldest is such a different person at 10 than she was six. We had totally different issues, but dd had some real problems in first grade mostly with the teaching style and the fact that she was working really slowly, missing recess to complete assignments, and rarely getting tests completed. She still wrote 3s and 5s backwards sometimes and kept stopping during timed math tests to erase and rewrite them which kept her from finishing the tests.

We got to a really bad point emotionally with her and wound up homeschooling the last quarter. I so clearly recall sitting in the principal's office with the teacher, the principal, and my dh arguing that, if dd was going to be a C student and that was the best she could do, that they needed to let it be. With less pressure and a different teacher for 2nd grade, she was at the top of her class. She's currently a straight A student.

Now, in the interest of full disclosure (I'm really not trying to brag, so I hope that this comes across how I intend), dd is brighter than average. We wound up having some private assessments done in 2nd grade and dd has a high IQ and a gifted ID in school as a result. For her, it took a change in environment for her achievement to match her ability, which is higher than avg not avg or lower as we were arguing with her teacher. I have no idea what your dd's needs or abilities are from reading your posts, but I did want to say that environment and young age can stand in the way of even a very bright child and that time and continuing to move her ahead can work well in some instances.
ChristaN is offline  
#53 of 58 Old 05-09-2009, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
KMK_Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMK_Mama View Post
The teacher did a recent math assessment and she has only mastered 5 out of the 12 skills at first grade level. The reading assessment will be done sometime in the next few weeks.

However, I did cancel the parent-teacher conference because I just didn't see the need a few days ago, but now I think I am going to ask for one. The other night when I talked to my DD she told me that when she was taken to do this math assessment, she was in the middle of eating lunch and said she was hungry and just wanted to hurry and finish the assessment so she could go eat. Uhm, that's not fair! She also told me that she knew the answers but was hoping if she just said she didn't know or whatever that she could be done faster. I don't know if she is telling me the truth about this or not? If nothing else I'd like to see the assessment that was done and talk to the teacher about the things Kya was telling me.
I'm still looking for opinions so, so no, you are not bothering me! I'm actually confused once again.

I told the teacher about how Kya complained about being taken out of class during lunch for her math assessment and I asked to have a conference. The teacher took it upon herself to re-assess her based on what I told her and the 2nd time she got 10 out of 12....so HUGE improvement. The teacher is STILL suggesting we hold her back, however. Her RTI reading test is on Tuesday so I'll know even more then.

I am still concerned about my other DD. If we decide not to hold Kya back, we would be putting Makena in regular 1st grade...and she would be 5 for the first month of school....so REALLY young. I was just thinking that the whole "holding back" plan would benefit them both as far as maturity goes, although DD2's kindy teacher said she is fine for regular 1st grade but also agrees that putting her into transitional 1st next year and regular 1st the following year wouldn't hurt her either. (I know some people on here disagree with that)

: Robyn : Increasingly crunchy Mama to Kya (8) , Makena (7) , and Keegan (4) :
KMK_Mama is offline  
#54 of 58 Old 05-09-2009, 11:37 PM
 
ChristaN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMK_Mama View Post
I am still concerned about my other DD. If we decide not to hold Kya back, we would be putting Makena in regular 1st grade...and she would be 5 for the first month of school....so REALLY young. I was just thinking that the whole "holding back" plan would benefit them both as far as maturity goes, although DD2's kindy teacher said she is fine for regular 1st grade...
Age alone doesn't always equate with maturity. Do you think that your younger dd is less mature than her grade peers or is she just younger?

It sounds like she's about the same age as my younger dd was in 1st. My girls have 8/29 and 9/27 bds and both started K right before their fifth bds, so dd#2 was 5 for the first month of 1st grade as well. I've been less certain on whether her being in the grade she's in worked better than waiting a year, which we could have done with either of our girls. However, it doesn't seem to be not working, either. She's just not as far ahead academically as her sister was at this age and she's with a somewhat challenging group of kids in her grade so the friendship thing has been a bit tougher this year, but again she's not being bullied or having a really tough time with the other kids for the most part.

As one of my older friends says, "you can only raise your children once." It is hard to know how any of our decisions will play out long-term.
ChristaN is offline  
#55 of 58 Old 05-09-2009, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
KMK_Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristaN View Post
Age alone doesn't always equate with maturity. Do you think that your younger dd is less mature than her grade peers or is she just younger?

It sounds like she's about the same age as my younger dd was in 1st. My girls have 8/29 and 9/27 bds and both started K right before their fifth bds, so dd#2 was 5 for the first month of 1st grade as well.
Yep, Makena's birthday is 8/30/03. So far she just seems younger but the teacher said that since she is so shy at school (not at home!!) another year may help "bring her out of her shell" as well. She also mentioned that maturity may not be a huge problem now, but that could change as she gets up in grades and she may start having trouble relating to her peers.

: Robyn : Increasingly crunchy Mama to Kya (8) , Makena (7) , and Keegan (4) :
KMK_Mama is offline  
#56 of 58 Old 05-10-2009, 12:39 AM
 
snowmom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 765
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMK_Mama View Post
Yep, Makena's birthday is 8/30/03. So far she just seems younger but the teacher said that since she is so shy at school (not at home!!) another year may help "bring her out of her shell" as well. She also mentioned that maturity may not be a huge problem now, but that could change as she gets up in grades and she may start having trouble relating to her peers.
Just playing devil's advocate here to help flesh things out, to help make more clear what you and the teacher were really discussing:
- I don't think changes in "maturity" level (whatever that means) necessarily proceed in a linear manner, but like the rest of development may come in fits and starts. The question I'd be asking myself would be (besides whether this supposed maturity issue has anything to do with learning), how true would it be that her maturity level would forever remain behind those of her peers, or would her maturity level "catch up" in that regard over the next couple of years (thus rendering the supposed problem of maturity level further down the road completey moot - as in not a reason to retain)
- I think the opposite is true from what the teacher said; I think that "maturity" (again, whatever that means) differences between children become far less relevant over time, just like age differences.
- being shy has nothing to do with learning, academic success or lack thereof. If she's using shyness as having something to do with "maturity", then I'd guess her idea of maturity has nothing to do with learning. Some kids will be very introverted their whole lives, merely a form of personality. Some will come out of their shells and only show their shyness or introversion at times. But I don't think that has any relevance to a retention decision or even to the so-called "maturity" level. At all. (can ya tell I feel strongly about this part LOL, as an introverted mom with very shy/introverted kids, who have indeed come out of their shells somewhat over time but who will always have some of that in them.)

I haven't kept up with where you're at with vision evals and cost, but just thought I'd pipe in that the eval we did with the behavioral optometrist for dd's eye tracking issue was about $125. (Our insurance didn't cover it either since dd had just had the regular checkup with the ped opthamologist a couple months before.) The 6 months of vision therapy was $2400 (which included 24 weekly visits and occasional progress checks with the optometrist). My sense is that these prices are in the usual ballpark, so if you were quoted much higher prices, maybe call around to some other providers.

just another two cents...good luck with the decision!
snowmom5 is offline  
#57 of 58 Old 05-11-2009, 10:30 AM
 
sapphire_chan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 27,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmom5 View Post
- being shy has nothing to do with learning, academic success or lack thereof. If she's using shyness as having something to do with "maturity", then I'd guess her idea of maturity has nothing to do with learning. ...
And I can't imagine shyness being helped by being introduced to a whole new group of kids unless there is some active problem with this particular group (e.g. teasing). And if there is an active problem with this particular group she could just go into a different classroom.

Oh, and I'm a 9/28 birthday, was so withdrawn that my parents took me to play therapy to make sure nothing was fundamentally wrong, and had no real problems with school.
sapphire_chan is offline  
#58 of 58 Old 05-11-2009, 07:47 PM
 
carmel23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 5,278
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would *not* hold you daughter back, but rather let he stay with her friend's, especially if this is the most important/best part of school for her.

She would be estranged from her friends. That would take the best part of school away from her.

I don't understand why the teacher is so adamant about her repeating 1st grade. my son is currently in 2nd, and the kids in his class are all over the place--some are very advanced, others are still working on the skills that your DD hasn't mastered yet. 2nd grade is about solidifying the skills, it isn't *that* different then 1st grade, honestly.

Does the teacher receive performance pay? What is her motivation? 10 out of 12 on a math test seems really good. A lot can happen over the summer, and it seems strange that they are pushing for you to decide *before* evaluating your daughter.

I was another kid who couldn't really read until 2nd grade. I was very bright, but had vision problems. No one discovered the vision problems until I had a delay in reading. My eye muscles were very weak in one eye and it was physically painful to read.

Holding me back in school (based on this one teacher's opinion?!) would have been horrible.

Especially if she is bored now... how could doing the same work over a whole entire year benefit her?

I just don't see how it will benefit you child.

 hh2.gif  ~~~~~~~~~~hh2.gif
 

carmel23 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off