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He got an F

3K views 50 replies 25 participants last post by  orangecanoe 
#1 ·
My 3rd grader got an F on his report card. In penmanship. He is REALLY upset about it and I feel horrible for him. We are not the type of family that worries about grades at all so when he said he was scared to show me his report card I just said, "Are you kidding me? When have I ever worried about your grades? As long as you are trying that's all that matters to me." Despite that he still feels horrible and I am kind of angry about it. He has bipolar disorder which results in learning problems and one of the major issue is printing/writing. I think it's unfair for them to give him an F when they know he has a disability and they agreed to accomodate that (it's a small private school so no IEP but we have an agreement in place). Do you think it's fair to give a 3rd grader an F??? He also got a couple of C's which he is not happy about and then some A's and B's.
 
#3 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by lotusdebi View Post
I don't think it's fair to give a third grader an F. And I think it's ridiculous that schools still grade penmanship. I'm sorry that the school personnel aren't being more sensitive, and that your son is upset.

Seriously, that's awful! Boys often have trouble with this anyway. I can't believe this is something that's graded. Give him a big hug, tell him he's great, and the school is silly.
 
#5 ·
Could you ask that grades be sealed in an envelope before given to your child,or have the grades mailed?

I do not plan to share grade results with my kids until hs.They know about grades and how some schools use them to determine if you pass or not,but I don't want them to fret over a mid-term grade or whatever.

I was told for years if I wrote more my penmanship would get better.It never did.Grading for it is cruel as some people r will never write very nice, and it is not from lack of trying.

Hugs to your boy! Hopefully he will be able to move on from this soon.
 
#6 ·
The only F I ever got was in 3rd grade, and it was in handwriting! I can laugh about it now, and use that as an excuse as to why my penmanship is so atrocious. I don't remember being too tramatized, and my parents didn't make a big deal about it. Some people have beautiful handwriting, some don't. I am clearly in the "don't" camp. I was/am very good at math, however, and I'll take that any day over good penmanship. Penmanship isn't on the SAT.
 
#7 ·
If it's not up to a minimum standard for where he is, then why shouldn't they give him an 'F'?

I really think that this whole thing about passing kids no matter what is out of hand.

It's not a final grade. And even if it was a final grade, most schools don't hold kids back for something like penmanship. I went to a private school that would use an end of the year failing grade to set up a summer program with the parents that would get the child to work on the skill that they were lacking. Is it possible that's what his school would do?
 
#8 ·
The concern I would have is why didn't you know there was an issue before the report cards were sent out? You should not have been surprised to see the F--the fact you didn't know about it concerns me that the school isn't really being proactive enough or communicating well with parents.

Why didn't the teacher call you and say something before the end of the grading period?

For me, as a parent, I would be ticked if my kid got an F and there wasn't some kind of communication from the school or an attempt to intervene and set my child up for success.

V
 
#9 ·
To begin with, I'm not a fan of letter grades for elementary school students. That said, ITA with:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
If it's not up to a minimum standard for where he is, then why shouldn't they give him an 'F'?

I really think that this whole thing about passing kids no matter what is out of hand.
They're not trying to hurt your DS's feelings, but what's the point in giving grades in the first place if they're not based on actual performance? My kids aren't graded on penmanship, but if they were, I'd bet that my DS2 would receive a fail/not meeting standards. I wouldn't be upset about it, because his handwriting is truly unreadable at times, and he knows that it is something he needs to work at.
 
#10 ·
I just want to add. That his worth is not tied into his grades, as you already seem to know. All grades are are a way to see how he measures up to the "standard". It's not a personal attack.

I also agree that you should be upset that the school didn't communicate with you multiple times about his handwriting if it's that bad. The 'F' on his report card should not have been a surprise to either of you.
 
#12 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by annethcz View Post
To begin with, I'm not a fan of letter grades for elementary school students. That said, ITA with:

They're not trying to hurt your DS's feelings, but what's the point in giving grades in the first place if they're not based on actual performance? My kids aren't graded on penmanship, but if they were, I'd bet that my DS2 would receive a fail/not meeting standards. I wouldn't be upset about it, because his handwriting is truly unreadable at times, and he knows that it is something he needs to work at.
My son has a disability, they are supposed to give him more leeway than the average child. If he CAN'T work up the standard why should he be penalized for that?
 
#13 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Heavenly View Post
My son has a disability, they are supposed to give him more leeway than the average child. If he CAN'T work up the standard why should he be penalized for that?
I absolutely agree with you.

And I think the school needs to take your child's specific disability into consideration. I also have bipolar disorder and I got a B- in Handwriting in 2nd grade. It was the lowest grade I had ever received at that point, and I was distraught enough that I became suicidal. Grades were very much tied into worth - by the school and by my parents - and it was a very big deal to me that I got such a grade on my report card. It was damaging. It was traumatic.
I think that you and the school personnel need to have a talk and have future report cards mailed to you so that you son isn't hurt by them.
 
#14 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Heavenly View Post
My son has a disability, they are supposed to give him more leeway than the average child. If he CAN'T work up the standard why should he be penalized for that?
Is he supposed to get unlimited leeway?

I would think that even with more leeway, there's still probably a point where he should be reaching.

I would talk to the school and find out what they are expecting from him and how he didn't meet that.
 
#15 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
If it's not up to a minimum standard for where he is, then why shouldn't they give him an 'F'?

I really think that this whole thing about passing kids no matter what is out of hand.

I think letter grades for primary students is ridiculous. There are plenty of ways of 'grading' students without resorting to letters that have heavy stigma and little relevance. I don't agree with "passing kids no matter what" but there are better ways to evaluate than the old-fashioned letter system.
 
#16 ·
I think the teacher should have contacted you well before the report card to discuss any ongoing problems with handwriting. A surprise F doesn't help anyone.

It also sounds like it would be helpful to know what, specifically, is measured to determine a passing grade in handwriting. What *specific* things does the teacher feel she needs to see to grant a passing grade? Can she give you ideas for things you can do at home to improve his handwriting (fine motor skills games?) A 'fail' message without a plan for improvement sounds pretty useless. That discussion should include a written plan (since an unwritten plan doesn't seem to have worked) that takes into consideration your son's particular needs.

I think A-F grades in elementary grades are foolish, anyway. Proficient/Developing/Needs Improvement makes more sense to me.

Good luck!
 
#17 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
Is he supposed to get unlimited leeway?

I would think that even with more leeway, there's still probably a point where he should be reaching.
No, actually, with certain writing disabilities, such as dysgraphia, kids don't always reach a "point". There are goals to aim for, and try to assist via OT services, etc. But, this is why keyboarding and the alpha-smart are so important for true disabilities of handwriting.

It seems to me that the school is seeing the handwriting as a a distinct achievement, whereas I think that the reason for writing should be uppermost as a concern. We write to communicate. How is giving this child an F as a grade furthering his ability and motivation to communicate in his academic subjects? To what end was this grade given? To me it seems that an F encompasses lack of trying as well as achievement-it's a solid failure all around. If your son has a disability this is really inappropriate.
 
#18 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Heavenly View Post
He has bipolar disorder which results in learning problems and one of the major issue is printing/writing. I think it's unfair for them to give him an F when they know he has a disability and they agreed to accomodate that (it's a small private school so no IEP but we have an agreement in place).
I would really question if he is in the right school. Beyond the question of whether any child his age should fail a subject in which they turn in all their work and make an effort, I question whether a teacher who gives a bi-polar child a failing grade should be working with special needs children at all.
 
#19 ·
Why are their F's anyway?

ABCD and then F? Why not E?

F is associated with failure and it's not necessarily failure, but just a lower level for that particular course at that particular time. But they give a kid an F and make him feel bad.

Some kids have areas where they struggle and then strengths in other areas or other reasons for lower grades(stress at home for example)

Poor kid...it's not his thing..it'll come.
 
#20 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
I would really question if he is in the right school. Beyond the question of whether any child his age should fail a subject in which they turn in all their work and make an effort, I question whether a teacher who gives a bi-polar child a failing grade should be working with special needs children at all.
I agree with this. I totally understand the ability of a small school to try to meet the kids' needs, even unofficially, but experience is so significant here. Obviously the teacher doesn't know what to expect of a child with your son's needs. And without an IEP outlining exactly what the goals and expectations are, the teacher won't have any frameworks to help with that lack of understanding.

Report cards should never have surprises on them. When I put together my students' report cards, I think of it simply as documentation of progress for everyone's records--not really a communication with families about how a kid is doing. If I'm communicating well throughout the term, everyone already knows how their children are doing in my class.

Sounds like you and the teacher need to meet and talk more about the needs and expectations for bipolar kids, how penmanship is assessed, and how those assessments can be modified in the future to be fair to your son's ability level. Modifying the assessments for special needs children is NOT giving them "leeway." Everyone learns differently.
 
#21 ·
Hmmm, is the school's "agreement" with you contractually/legally binding? In many states, private schools can do as they like with students with special needs. Do you think the school is actually willing to work with you? Or do they just want to hang on the tuition, so to speak? (I don't say that to be mean to the school, but I have seen that attitude before, especially in a sucky economy)

If your agreement is *truly* solid, then it's time to have a discussion with the administration. I would imagine that communicating with you ahead of time when the standard is not even close to being met should be part of that agreement.

But I don't think you can expect his grade to be bumped up because of his disability. Elementary grading is not done on a curve. However, I would imagine it would be reasonable to *exempt* him from being asessed in handwriting! So if I were you, that's how I'd approach things, not with saying that he should get a higher grade, unless you have some ideas of how to do that fairly. The report card needs to be accurate. Giving someone an A or a C to make them feel better is probably not very useful as an accurate representation of the student's progress.

However, with a plan in place that states that he is not expected to be on level or approaching it in handwriting so that he is exempted from that asessment on a year by year basis, that might solve everyone's problem. No F on his report card to upset him, no "falsifying" school records from the administrative point of view.
 
#22 ·
I do think it's fine in general to give a 3rd grader an "F," but it doesn't sound like you have been informed of any reason your DS has earned one.

All the reasons I can think of to give a 3rd grader an "F" should have been communicated to you long ago, and frequently. Legitimate reasons to give him an "F" such as cheating, refusing to do any work, using penmanship practice sheets to right obscenities, etc all should involve immediate meeting with the teacher.

While I don't think your DS should be given an "A" if his work isn't up to snuff, an "NA" for not applicable or and "E" for exempt would seem more in keeping with you arrangement.
 
#23 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by eepster View Post
All the reasons I can think of to give a 3rd grader an "F" should have been communicated to you long ago, and frequently. Legitimate reasons to give him an "F" such as cheating, refusing to do any work, using penmanship practice sheets to right obscenities, etc all should involve immediate meeting with the teacher.
Agreed.

I think that if a child is doing the work and doing their best, then they shouldn't be receiving an F. If the child's best effort isn't a passing mark, then either the work being given or the standard expected is unreasonable for the child.

This isn't a university course -- this is primary school.
 
#24 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
But I don't think you can expect his grade to be bumped up because of his disability. Elementary grading is not done on a curve.
This might be dependent on the school. Our ODD goes to a private school and while they don't grade on a curve, they do give out grades based on individualized expectations. ODD's school does not use standard letter grades. They use B (beginning), D (developing), S (secure) and fwiw our DD would react just as poorly to a B as an F. DD might get a developing on something, such as penmanship simply because they claim to hold her to a higher standard. She might be meeting age based expectations but she might not be meeting expectations the teacher has specifically set for her. In some cases it could be useful, in others it could be irritating.
 
#25 ·
I think you're misunderstanding me. What you describe is STILL not a curve. A curve requires a degree of competition because the student is being compared to everyone else in that specific class (not a neutral set of standards).

Elementary grades aren't a competition between students, it's how each individual student does on their individual asessment.

One could use "different" standards for different kids, but that's something that probably has to be in writing in conjunction with a plan.

I think what you describe happens with your daughter is awful. She's held to a higher standard than the baseline? So even if she exceeds the baseline, she could be given a 'not to standard' grade because the teacher "feels" like she can do better? That's just as dangerous and potentially destructive as not giving accurate info as to whether a child is meeting standard, IMO.
 
#26 ·
You've got to be kidding!
An "F" in penmanship? Dear goodness gracious. Ridiculous.
My son is in 3rd grade and has AWFUL penmanship. All of his teachers have said up until this point, "It seriously does not matter that much. His generation will be typing predominantly."
 
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