would this be asking too much? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#61 of 109 Old 03-30-2010, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
mommia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
I don't know. I am not out and out disagreeing...just saying I do not know.

She is a parent, she does not get to dictate who volunteers in the class.

If she said " Ds is never to be near xyz"

The school may very well come back with "the school decides who volunteers".

To a degree this is how it should be. If a place decided I shouldn't volunteer based on a single parents unproven concerns, I would not be amused. I may even threatten them with a libel or discrimination suit. You cannot exclude people without grounds.

I will re-iterate that it makes far more sense to ensure the volunteer policy is safe and compliant with reasonable protocal for working with vulnerable (children) populations.
Agreed
mommia is offline  
#62 of 109 Old 03-30-2010, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
mommia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloe View Post
Initially I would sugest that my child be seperated from the other child. If that didn't occur and they were placed in the same class I would express in writing that under no circumstances is my child allowed to interact with this man. Reiterate this with your child. My understanding is that the school can read between the lines be on the lookout not only for your son but for the class as a whole. They are not interested in having a pedaphile on campus and should be on the lookout for possible lawsuits. I am sure if someone had done this at my elementaray school the "storyteller" who used to come would never had contact with the great number of students he went on to molest. Trust your instincts.
OMG. I'm so glad you posted that I will be talking to the school! You cannot be too careful and if something happened to any of the kids I would be sich . All very good advice!!! Thanks so much for posting this!!! Hopefully this post will protect not just kids at this school but others of children of parents who are reading this. I'm not overreacting and once the damage has been done as it was with this "storyteller" at your school it cannot be undone, it's too late. THose poor kids and parents... My heart goes out to them.

I will definitely trust my instincts, thank you...
mommia is offline  
#63 of 109 Old 03-30-2010, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
mommia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrieMF View Post
except this is assuming the guy has done something wrong & there is NOTHING posted that shows that. Sure there is always the chance that he *may* be a pedophile, but there's that chance with everyone, male or female. The chances are HIGHER that he's not.

She has never even talked to the guy. She has judged him & in her mind accused/convincted him of something that she can't even clarify.
It's a gut feeling that something is off!!!! And you know what if more people listened to their instincts a lot of bad things could be avoided. Better safe than sorry. I'm not going in there accusing him of anything I'm thinking that I do not want my son around him to be on the safe side and the more I think about this and especially after reading the post you commented on I need to do something to protect kids from anyone with bad intentions. Once something has happened it's too late to protect the children affected isn't it.

Should we all wait to protect kids until it's too late and that gut feeling turns into abuse and a child is affected for the rest of his or her life???

It's a million times more likely that a pedophile will be a man when we're talking about children. Think of the priests and boy scout leaders...

And for the record I did not accuse or convict anyone of anything. I simply stated that my instinct says that something is off.
mommia is offline  
#64 of 109 Old 03-31-2010, 01:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
mommia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloe View Post
But she does have the right to advocate for her child. She does have the right to say whom her child interacts with. The child has a right to be in a public school with teachers and other kids not with parents. As I said in my previous post there actually was a volunteer pedophile that was at my school growing up so I am super sensitive about it. He has since been in jail 7 times for rape and sodomy on numerous children. So yes I feel that if the parents who felt uncomfortable with their children interacting with him had spoken up he would have been exposed sooner. If parents feel that their children can not be shown a movie, given a particular book or taught sex and drug education then surely they can also say that they are not to be allowed to interact with a certain volunteer. No reason to give explanations or accusations. Just a simple I am not comfortable with them being around so and so please ensure that they are kept separate.

I am not suggesting that she go into the school and say that she has decided that this man is a pedophile and he better stay away from her son. She is not the judge and jury. But she defiantly has the right to say that her kid is not allowed to interact with this or that person. I make that decision with my kids every day, as do most parents. I have defiantly had this feeling with someone and I would never have my kids alone with this person. I also never gave a reason for it, why would I? It isn’t a feeling that comes along often but when it does she has the right to listen to her instincts just as you have the right to listen to yours.
I completely agree that parents have the right and responsibility to speak up and advocate for their child. Of course I would never make any accusations... the way you said it is perfect should they end up in the same class that's the way I will handle it. The volunteer thing is a tricky subject on the one hand bothe kids and teachers greatly benefit from parent volunteers with good intentions but on the other hand as it did at the school you went to the scary but fortunately rare reality is it can also be a harmful thing if someone with bad intentions slips through the cracks... Screening is definitely important and will be addressed, particularly in cases where parents drive for field trips, which is how he volunteers. As far as in class volunteers I know they are careful as far as not letting them alone. Thankfully more people in the world than not are good and decent but a person cannot be too careful, particularly when it comes to children.
mommia is offline  
#65 of 109 Old 03-31-2010, 09:37 PM
 
sapphire_chan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 27,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
How do you know it wasn't the kindergarten boy who wanted to go for a ride in a big car? With snacks and his friends.

You say the limo ride isn't the problem, but you started off with that and you come back to it as "proof" that the guy is a problem.

If you have any real concerns, talk to the authorities. And feel free to make a request about classrooms.


A organization I was in had a problem with a molester because people neglected to follow a rule about having to have two people present for all children's activities. He would NOT have been flagged in a background check.

The solution? Requiring background checks for anyone doing a children's activity. Meaning fewer people can do children's activities so there is more of a chance of children ending up alone with an adult who could pass a background check.
sapphire_chan is offline  
#66 of 109 Old 04-01-2010, 11:00 AM
 
itsmyturn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 191
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There are alot of "one-up" dads at my school. I would not be surprised if a dad at my school did this.
Some dads like to show off and others have been known to do extreme things trying to buy their childs popularity.
itsmyturn is offline  
#67 of 109 Old 04-01-2010, 12:24 PM
 
velochic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Dreaming of the Bavarian Alps
Posts: 8,413
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just have to wonder what your reaction would be (your gut instinct) if a mom at the school, who was an over-the-top volunteer, supermom, picked up a group of little girls in a stretch limo for a princess birthday party. Would you think of her as a pedophile? I think that (in general) it's really sad that the idea of a man with a bunch of young boys automatically makes people think dirty thoughts.

However, I totally agree with going with your gut instinct. Nature gave mothers hairs on the back of our necks for a reason. But I would be very careful to evaluate your feelings (perhaps some jealousy that they did something REALLY cool and perhaps out of many people's financial league) before you pursue talking to the administration. They are likely going to want to know why you don't want you child to be with this boy, and if you haven't even talked to this parent to get to know him at all, you're going to be making, what to them, will be some VERY groundless accusations.

Schools don't just allow volunteers without some background checks. This guy has passed their test, obviously. Statistically, he's probably a sound guy. And if he is, and you make accusations, you could end up with at a minimum, egg on your face, and worse, a lawsuit.

I would say your best course of action is to pursue establishing school rules that volunteers are never alone with the kids (if it's not already there) and otherwise, just don't let your kid hang out with his after school hours.
velochic is offline  
#68 of 109 Old 04-01-2010, 04:07 PM
 
Deefodil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
I just have to wonder what your reaction would be (your gut instinct) if a mom at the school, who was an over-the-top volunteer, supermom, picked up a group of little girls in a stretch limo for a princess birthday party. Would you think of her as a pedophile? I think that (in general) it's really sad that the idea of a man with a bunch of young boys automatically makes people think dirty thoughts.
Deefodil is offline  
#69 of 109 Old 04-01-2010, 04:11 PM
 
monkeymomma24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There was this dad in one of my schools who everyone thought was kinda weird. He was a volunteer and he did many of the things you describe, lavish birthday parties, very involved, but something just seemd "off" about him.

You know what it was? When his daughter was three, she was involved in a car accident that nearly took her life. She was in a coma for a week and a half. Doctors weren't sure how much damage she would have or what her life would be like in the future. She was too young for a lot of the tests.

The dad, who had a very high powered career and who invested wisely, quit his job after she was discharged from the hospital and dedicated the rest of his life to being involved in hers and to finding new ways to share moments with her (volunteering at the school) and to not taking anything for granted and to celebrating her in special ways (lavish birthday parties). The "offness" was the trauma of nearly having lost his daughter at a really young age and then spending a few years worrying what her quality of life would be until it was determined she was more than okay.
monkeymomma24 is offline  
#70 of 109 Old 04-01-2010, 04:18 PM
 
kama'aina mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Watching Top Chef, eating Top Ramen
Posts: 21,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I think that really, the most productive thing you could do, overall, would be to talk to the principal and clarify what safeguards exist to protect children in the school. Are volunteers ever alone with children? What systems are in place to prevent this from happening? Do volunteers undergo any kind of background check? If you do that you are not just focusing on one person you are looking at the whole system, which will serve you better.

There are probably people who volunteer at the school that you have never laid eyes on. You don't know how many of them might make you uncomfortable. But if you know more about the schools protocols you might feel better about the whole thing. Or maybe you will get motivated to help the school create stronger policies.
kama'aina mama is offline  
#71 of 109 Old 04-01-2010, 04:23 PM
 
churndash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommia View Post
I completely agree that parents have the right and responsibility to speak up and advocate for their child. Of course I would never make any accusations... the way you said it is perfect should they end up in the same class that's the way I will handle it. The volunteer thing is a tricky subject on the one hand bothe kids and teachers greatly benefit from parent volunteers with good intentions but on the other hand as it did at the school you went to the scary but fortunately rare reality is it can also be a harmful thing if someone with bad intentions slips through the cracks... Screening is definitely important and will be addressed, particularly in cases where parents drive for field trips, which is how he volunteers. As far as in class volunteers I know they are careful as far as not letting them alone. Thankfully more people in the world than not are good and decent but a person cannot be too careful, particularly when it comes to children.
Your statement that he was "alone in a limo with helpless little boys" certainly implies an accusation.

You have every right to protect your child but you truly have no evidence (and no, your gut is not evidence) of any kind that this father is dangerous to anyone. By your own admission, you've never even spoken to him.

If you want to follow your gut and do what you can to keep your son away from this adult, by all means do so. But to ask the principal to do that for you, for no other reason than the hairs on the back of your neck stand up...that's not only unreasonable on your part, but it will probably make the principal very unlikely to take anything you say seriously.
churndash is offline  
#72 of 109 Old 04-01-2010, 04:48 PM
 
SunshineJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In transition
Posts: 1,837
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
I just have to wonder what your reaction would be (your gut instinct) if a mom at the school, who was an over-the-top volunteer, supermom, picked up a group of little girls in a stretch limo for a princess birthday party. Would you think of her as a pedophile? I think that (in general) it's really sad that the idea of a man with a bunch of young boys automatically makes people think dirty thoughts.
Not the OP, but yes, if the woman gave me the creeps for some reason you bet my reaction would be the same! There is, in fact, a classmate that lives up the street who's house I won't let the kids enter. The mom gives me the heebie jeebies and at first just a few things seemed "off". The more I know the less I like and I DO think she and the environment she places children in and would be willing to place my children in could be dangerous. (No, there's nothing I can call on at this time.) I don't think she's a pedophile necessarily but I don't trust her and won't trust her with my children. If I had thought about it, I would have also requested that her child not be in dd's class next year (our school requests that parents send in their teacher requests for the following year by March 26th). She's told me the only reason she's not a regular volunteer in the classroom is because she has a 1.5 yr old at home.
SunshineJ is offline  
#73 of 109 Old 04-01-2010, 06:50 PM
 
MerriMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OP, what if you make someone's hair stand on end? (Maybe even that dad's.) Should that parent go to principal and state that you are never to interact with his/her child, implying some nefarious motivation to your volunteering?

--Karen, mom to a super girl (and a sweet cat), wife of a great husband, proud public school teacher. Fortunate to have a wonderful life!
MerriMom is offline  
#74 of 109 Old 04-01-2010, 07:45 PM
 
Linda on the move's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: basking in the sunshine
Posts: 10,544
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommia View Post
OMG. I'm so glad you posted that I will be talking to the school! You cannot be too careful and if something happened to any of the kids I would be sich . All very good advice!!! Thanks so much for posting this!!! Hopefully this post will protect not just kids at this school but others of children of parents who are reading this. I'm not overreacting .
You don't know this man AT ALL and you want to hint to the school staff that you think he is a child molestor. You could ruin his life, his kids' lives, his marriage, etc.

You are seriously playing with fire with other people's lives. Try to image what would happen to your family *if someone who didn't even know you* starting hinting to people that your husband was a child molester.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

Linda on the move is online now  
#75 of 109 Old 04-01-2010, 07:47 PM
 
Drummer's Wife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 11,823
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I do think it's asking to much, honestly. Who cares if he brought the kids in a limo? Nothing is really a red flag to me - but of course, maybe I am missing something huge here.

ribboncesarean.gif cesareans happen.
Drummer's Wife is offline  
#76 of 109 Old 04-01-2010, 07:54 PM
 
velochic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Dreaming of the Bavarian Alps
Posts: 8,413
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineJ View Post
Not the OP, but yes, if the woman gave me the creeps for some reason you bet my reaction would be the same! There is, in fact, a classmate that lives up the street who's house I won't let the kids enter. The mom gives me the heebie jeebies and at first just a few things seemed "off". The more I know the less I like and I DO think she and the environment she places children in and would be willing to place my children in could be dangerous. (No, there's nothing I can call on at this time.) I don't think she's a pedophile necessarily but I don't trust her and won't trust her with my children. If I had thought about it, I would have also requested that her child not be in dd's class next year (our school requests that parents send in their teacher requests for the following year by March 26th). She's told me the only reason she's not a regular volunteer in the classroom is because she has a 1.5 yr old at home.
Of course, yes. I agree that if a woman gives a person the heebie jeebies, you should go with your gut instinct and not assume that she's "O.K." just because of her sex. However, a man with little boys shouldn't raise eyebrows any more than a woman with a bunch of little girls (or visa versa). Men love their kids as much as women do and if they want to throw a party for him (or her), they should be able to without people thinking, "dirty old man... luring helpless kids away with candy and a limo". Obviously there are parents who are not feeling threatened by this guy otherwise they wouldn't let their kids go with him. (And... who's to say he wasn't going to pick up his wife on the way to the birthday party... there's just so much that is unknown.)

The OP has stated that she hasn't even ever talked to this person. I'm not discounting the mama instinct. I think it's real and needs to be listened to. However from her posts I'm just wondering if the feelings are not somehow exacerbated by not liking the fact that he's Superdad and perhaps outshining other volunteers.
velochic is offline  
#77 of 109 Old 04-01-2010, 07:56 PM
 
velochic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Dreaming of the Bavarian Alps
Posts: 8,413
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
You don't know this man AT ALL and you want to hint to the school staff that you think he is a child molestor. You could ruin his life, his kids' lives, his marriage, etc.

You are seriously playing with fire with other people's lives. Try to image what would happen to your family *if someone who didn't even know you* starting hinting to people that your husband was a child molester.
velochic is offline  
#78 of 109 Old 04-01-2010, 08:05 PM
 
zinemama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: from the fire roads to the interstate
Posts: 6,588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've read this whole thread and I still don't get it.

I don't understand why a man in a limo with a bunch of five-year-old boys sets off such alarms. Ostentatious, sure. But dangerous? Either he's driving the limo, in which case he certainly can't do anything to them. Or there's a driver - what, he's implicated somehow, too? Plus, what guy is going to attempt to molest an entire limo-full of kindergarteners, all at once? It makes no sense.

I get that the OP's hair stands up on her neck about this guy - whatever that signifies. But as far as I can determine she has never spoken to him, her son has had no interactions with him, and he has done nothing concrete to make her suspect he's a pedophile, yet she does, anyway. I'm not trying to be flip, but it all comes down to her neck hair, doesn't it?

That's just not good enough for me. And I agree with pp that it's not enough evidence to inform the school of your suspicions. This is a situation that could backfire on you quite seriously.
zinemama is offline  
#79 of 109 Old 04-01-2010, 08:14 PM
 
Drummer's Wife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 11,823
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinemama View Post
I've read this whole thread and I still don't get it.
Thank you! After re-reading some of the responses, I still thought maybe I was crazy.

If the biggest concern a parent has is that a peer's father can afford to rent a limo - then count yourself lucky, for now. There will be way more pressing issues throughout your child's school career and life that will warrant an uproar or meeting with admin. I get having an uneasy feeling about someone else - except in this case, the OP doesn't even know this other parent - she hasn't spoken a word to him. It sounds like a lot of misguided preconceived ideas, and most likely nothing to truly be concerned about. Bullying, racism, etc., - yeah, I can then see requesting to have two students be in separate classes - but come on, this just seems really over the top, to me.

I guess I just can't imagine judging someone else basically based on a freakin' limo filled with kindergarten kids. I don't get it.

ribboncesarean.gif cesareans happen.
Drummer's Wife is offline  
#80 of 109 Old 04-01-2010, 10:21 PM
 
One_Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,734
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinemama View Post
I've read this whole thread and I still don't get it.

I don't understand why a man in a limo with a bunch of five-year-old boys sets off such alarms. Ostentatious, sure. But dangerous? Either he's driving the limo, in which case he certainly can't do anything to them. Or there's a driver - what, he's implicated somehow, too? Plus, what guy is going to attempt to molest an entire limo-full of kindergarteners, all at once? It makes no sense.

I get that the OP's hair stands up on her neck about this guy - whatever that signifies. But as far as I can determine she has never spoken to him, her son has had no interactions with him, and he has done nothing concrete to make her suspect he's a pedophile, yet she does, anyway. I'm not trying to be flip, but it all comes down to her neck hair, doesn't it?

That's just not good enough for me. And I agree with pp that it's not enough evidence to inform the school of your suspicions. This is a situation that could backfire on you quite seriously.

At my dd's school most mothers and some fathers volunteer a lot and have very lavish birthday parties, but I would never let my jealousy or distaste over their spending habits fester so much that I decided something is wrong with them. I don't particularly care to be around the parents because they tend to have an attitude that rubs me the wrong way, but it isn't something that I think is horrible for my dd to be around. Jealousy and disagreement about morals are normal things to feel, but you shouldn't let your feelings control you. I think you need to take some time to reflect on what is really motivating you to judge a person you don't interact with and how you would feel if the situation was reversed. If you still want the kids separated then I think you should request it in a way that doesn't imply that this man is already a proven child molester. It is so easy to decide someone is really wrong when it is our feelings about what they do or our jealousy that is motivating us.
One_Girl is online now  
#81 of 109 Old 04-01-2010, 11:40 PM
 
Tigerchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle Eastside
Posts: 5,005
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't think that "instincts" are necessarily always right. And honestly, I don't think that jealousy has to be the reason.

I know people who absolutely in their heart "know" that all gay people want to molest their children. If they are walking down the street, and they see a young black man walking down from the opposite in, they will have their hairs stand up and have a "fear" adrenaline rush. If you ask them could they be stereotyping, no--they will say it's an individual gut reaction. And I totally 100 percent believe them, that they do indeed feel it as "instinct". It genuinely is, for them. However, in 99.9 percent of cases, their instinct is wrong.

While I do think that it's important to STOP and LISTEN to our instincts, I don't think that it is wise or healthy to be *ruled* by them. It is dangerous and untrue to say that instincts are *always* right. They are not. Sometimes we need to evaluate why we are having this reaction. Is it, as hard as it is to admit, prejudice? Something from our past that we are projecting? Do we feel that we have to really make someone "bad" in order to feel okay about disliking them or being turned off by them? Do we feel a natural "ick" oil-and-water reaction to someone, and then take that reaction and project "it must be because he wants to molest children in the back of his limo" onto it?

Honestly, as a total blind stranger reading words over the internet, it sounds like the latter to me, in the OPs case. Just because you have a reactive ew to someone doesn't mean they're a predator. Sometimes it just means that you really really REALLY really REALLY do not connect with them. When I am around people I actively dislike (not too many of them out there) I do get goosebumps and hackles raised. I might even get little shakes. But I have been through enough high adrenaline situations (mostly due to volunteer and career jobs I've had) to know that FOR ME this is how I react to an adrenaline surge. It's the same for me if I'm first on the scene at a bad car wreck, if I feel that kick in as I have to run to protect my child from danger, when my mom has an episode, and when someone is around that rubs me the wrong way.

So. Just things to think about. I do think a request to make sure that your kid isn't in a class with another kid because you can't stand the other parent is a bit over the top. You feel what you feel though, you might as well own it, and ask for it. Were it me, I'd probably be blunt. "I feel uncomfortable around Mr. X, I don't like him, and this year I backed off on participating because I feel so strongly I'd rather not be in the same place as him." Just so they know how strong your feelings are. The worst thing that could happen is that they'd say no AND your kid would be randomly assigned to that child's class. At best, the administration will want to know personality conflicts and balance out class volunteer participation (if you're both super active, it'd be nice to have one of you in each class, so that you're not stacking the deck in one class anyway). And since it sounds like you prefer to drive for field trips anyway, then that problem is solved.
Tigerchild is offline  
#82 of 109 Old 04-02-2010, 08:19 AM
 
AndrewsMother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,675
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommia View Post
And come on a stretch hummer for a kindergarteners birthday? What does he plan to do for the kids 16th? Fly him to Vegas? To us that's too much too soon and a bad influence. It's more than that. There will always be crummy people who think they are big shots out there and he is, however ordinairily you can choose not to have your child have play dates etc with them and not be influenced by those parents...but because he's involved at school it's automatic that the kids are around him.
Flying a 16 year old to Vegas on their birthday is bad???

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommia View Post
Wow....it's crazy how over the top spoiled some kids are. Those people aren't doing their kids any favors.
I don't understand why a child who takes sailing lessons, or any other lessons is considered spoiled. Exposing a child to a wide range of activites is not a disservice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife View Post
Thank you! After re-reading some of the responses, I still thought maybe I was crazy.

If the biggest concern a parent has is that a peer's father can afford to rent a limo - then count yourself lucky, for now. There will be way more pressing issues throughout your child's school career and life that will warrant an uproar or meeting with admin. I get having an uneasy feeling about someone else - except in this case, the OP doesn't even know this other parent - she hasn't spoken a word to him. It sounds like a lot of misguided preconceived ideas, and most likely nothing to truly be concerned about. Bullying, racism, etc., - yeah, I can then see requesting to have two students be in separate classes - but come on, this just seems really over the top, to me.

I guess I just can't imagine judging someone else basically based on a freakin' limo filled with kindergarten kids. I don't get it.


What if this man were a single father. Should his son NOT have spend the night parties because a "mom" is not around.


Mommia, are you worried about ALL the children at the school, or just YOUR child. If you are concerned about all the children at the school, I would suggest that you make an anonymous call or email to child services. If you are only concerned about your child (without a valid reason), you don't have substantive reasons to approach school administrators.

+ + =
AndrewsMother is offline  
#83 of 109 Old 04-02-2010, 10:48 AM
 
aslyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 529
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Kind of off topic, but this thread really got me thinking..My DH & I never volunteer at the school, mainly because we have a 4 yr old at home and he works 3rd shift, I work mids so we have to cordinate our time to make sure all 3 kids get supervision and the attention they need. We are a "low income" family we don't spend lavishly because we don't have it to spend! We don't have a car or anything "normal" people have..but we have food and clothes and a roof over our heads. We live in a very "high income" area. Most folks here are doctors/lawyers/Accountants and have more money than we could ever dream of. We moved here because a family member rented this place to us for a really good price.

Now I have to wonder if other parents would NOT want our kids in their class because we don't have the best of everything? Would they think we are crazy or call social services because my kids get free lunches? I am sure We look really funny walking to the local giant eagle carrying backpacks to buy food for the week! (we have seen other parents from the school there at various times) My husband shaves his head bald, has multiple-piercings and tatoos..Just because he looks different then the rest of this community is that a sole reason for the folks here to not want our kids to interact with theirs? Or would people think HE is a pedophile? or make the hairs on the back of their necks stand up? Without ever taking the time to speak to someone, we all make pre-judments. Its a sad reality of our society.

But in the event that we did volunteer for something or did something really special (like rent a limo for 1 of our kids birthday's) I would be livid if I was told other parents did not want their child in the same class..It's 1 thing to trust your instincts, and even pre-judge that someone just rubs you the wrong way but there are accusations being thrown around that are completely unfounded.

The father in this case may have just thought it would be really cool to have a limo as part of the celebration, OR even had a friend/family member who drives this particular limo and the friend volunteered to do it as part of their present to the kid. You just don't know.

"I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I am not."- Kurt Cobain
aslyn is offline  
#84 of 109 Old 04-02-2010, 11:17 AM
 
Rivka5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
I don't think that "instincts" are necessarily always right. And honestly, I don't think that jealousy has to be the reason.

I know people who absolutely in their heart "know" that all gay people want to molest their children. If they are walking down the street, and they see a young black man walking down from the opposite in, they will have their hairs stand up and have a "fear" adrenaline rush. If you ask them could they be stereotyping, no--they will say it's an individual gut reaction. And I totally 100 percent believe them, that they do indeed feel it as "instinct". It genuinely is, for them. However, in 99.9 percent of cases, their instinct is wrong.

While I do think that it's important to STOP and LISTEN to our instincts, I don't think that it is wise or healthy to be *ruled* by them. It is dangerous and untrue to say that instincts are *always* right. They are not. Sometimes we need to evaluate why we are having this reaction. Is it, as hard as it is to admit, prejudice? Something from our past that we are projecting? Do we feel that we have to really make someone "bad" in order to feel okay about disliking them or being turned off by them? Do we feel a natural "ick" oil-and-water reaction to someone, and then take that reaction and project "it must be because he wants to molest children in the back of his limo" onto it?.
Yes, absolutely. Very well said.

Alexandra 4.11.05 and Colin 2.9.09. Click on my name to visit my homeschooling blog.
Rivka5 is offline  
#85 of 109 Old 04-02-2010, 06:52 PM
 
sapphire_chan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 27,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinemama View Post
I've read this whole thread and I still don't get it.
Well, my SIL was creeped out by the Imagination Movers* until she found out they have kids, so some people just don't get men having an interest in children's activities at all.

(*It was really weird because there aren't even any kids on the show. If someone wanted to entertain kids for icky reasons, you'd think they'd go for a job where they'd be working with kids...)
sapphire_chan is offline  
#86 of 109 Old 04-02-2010, 06:58 PM
 
sapphire_chan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 27,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh, you'd be volunteering too? Then definitely tell the school that you don't like the dad and would find it hard to work with him. That's a perfectly reasonable request and one that only foolish schools would disregard.
sapphire_chan is offline  
#87 of 109 Old 04-02-2010, 08:19 PM
 
Purple*Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Fluffyville
Posts: 5,680
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
I just have to wonder what your reaction would be (your gut instinct) if a mom at the school, who was an over-the-top volunteer, supermom, picked up a group of little girls in a stretch limo for a princess birthday party. Would you think of her as a pedophile? I think that (in general) it's really sad that the idea of a man with a bunch of young boys automatically makes people think dirty thoughts.

However, I totally agree with going with your gut instinct. Nature gave mothers hairs on the back of our necks for a reason. But I would be very careful to evaluate your feelings (perhaps some jealousy that they did something REALLY cool and perhaps out of many people's financial league) before you pursue talking to the administration. They are likely going to want to know why you don't want you child to be with this boy, and if you haven't even talked to this parent to get to know him at all, you're going to be making, what to them, will be some VERY groundless accusations.

Schools don't just allow volunteers without some background checks. This guy has passed their test, obviously. Statistically, he's probably a sound guy. And if he is, and you make accusations, you could end up with at a minimum, egg on your face, and worse, a lawsuit.

I would say your best course of action is to pursue establishing school rules that volunteers are never alone with the kids (if it's not already there) and otherwise, just don't let your kid hang out with his after school hours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
You don't know this man AT ALL and you want to hint to the school staff that you think he is a child molestor. You could ruin his life, his kids' lives, his marriage, etc.

You are seriously playing with fire with other people's lives. Try to image what would happen to your family *if someone who didn't even know you* starting hinting to people that your husband was a child molester.
I have to agree with both of these posts.

I think that asking the school not to let your child be in the same class, when you don't really *IMO* have a valid reason, could make things harder on you in the long run in future dealings with the school. I have read this thread twice and I just can't find a valid reason for the kids not to be in the same class together. I would be afraid that the school might not value your input or label you as a problem parent for future issues. Just my two cents.

ribbonpurple.gif  "And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more than the risk it took to blossom." Anais Nin
   
Purple*Lotus is offline  
#88 of 109 Old 04-02-2010, 09:10 PM
 
uumomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: PDX transplant
Posts: 432
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i have also just read and reread the thread, and while i agree that a limo for a kindy is over the top. I can not say that it would fly red flags for me, and he was not in the limo alone, he had a bunch of other children in there to right?

i may be off, but i think, if he were alone in the car with a child other than his own...maybe....

please consider what one of the posters said, you could with accusations like this (yes, even "my hairs on the head stand up") that you are very very sure.

did i read right that you have never had a conversation with him?

i would also consider that your child may very well spend the next 8 years with this child, and to blow off the children, his child and your child because of your neck hairs.....seems to much for me (or maybe not enough for me)

Erika, wife to Eric, Mom to Son's, Mathias, Colin and Bonus Baby Girl Salem ::
uumomma is offline  
#89 of 109 Old 04-02-2010, 09:32 PM
 
daisymama12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 738
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
I don't think that "instincts" are necessarily always right. And honestly, I don't think that jealousy has to be the reason.

I know people who absolutely in their heart "know" that all gay people want to molest their children. If they are walking down the street, and they see a young black man walking down from the opposite in, they will have their hairs stand up and have a "fear" adrenaline rush. If you ask them could they be stereotyping, no--they will say it's an individual gut reaction. And I totally 100 percent believe them, that they do indeed feel it as "instinct". It genuinely is, for them. However, in 99.9 percent of cases, their instinct is wrong.

While I do think that it's important to STOP and LISTEN to our instincts, I don't think that it is wise or healthy to be *ruled* by them. It is dangerous and untrue to say that instincts are *always* right. They are not. Sometimes we need to evaluate why we are having this reaction. Is it, as hard as it is to admit, prejudice? Something from our past that we are projecting? Do we feel that we have to really make someone "bad" in order to feel okay about disliking them or being turned off by them? .
Tigerchild, I just want to mention that I always find your posts so insightful and articulate.

I have listened to Oprah et al. saying "trust your gut" for years, and it may work wonderfully for others, but my "gut" is a set of learned reactions that are not always very healthy. I've had to replace my gut reactions (fear when there is no threat, unwarranted distrust, etc) with new, healthier reactions.

I don't really have any advice about how to move forward with your situation, OP, but just reiterating that the hair that goes up doesn't necessarily mean anything nefarious is going on.

Mama to my 2 boys
daisymama12 is offline  
#90 of 109 Old 04-02-2010, 10:24 PM
 
joensally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,977
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I think you need to go and talk to the man. I've had negative impressions of people that have proven inaccurate when I've gotten to know them.

As for going with your gut instincts, I'm with other posters that those instincts are often informed by biases we may consciously or unconsciously hold. You've noted that you don't like his extreme ways, and it's easy to continue to add to our impressions to reinforce our initial reaction - look, he's so overly involved with his kid, that's just weird and there must be something up with him... This is a very human reaction.

There's an author named Sheena Iyengar who has a new book out, called The Art of Choosing. I heard her interviewed recently and she speaks to your gut telling you how you feel - it's not more rational or reasoned than other approaches to assessment. And it's human nature to remember when we were right than when we were wrong, so it reinforces our belief.

http://www.unsv.com/voanews/english/...7/printer.html

Quote:
Indeed choice is so complex, says Iyengar, that doing it well takes both time and effort. You have to consult your gut, which tells you how you feel. Then you have to engage your reasoned analysis, which tells you all those pros and cons." It also pays to consult others, to get more information and to compensate for your own biases. "Only then can you really make a quote, 'informed choice.'"
Seems apropos .

I agree with another PP that talking to the teacher/principal about such a poorly quantified concern may cost you more than it gains you, and could certainly cause harm to a man who might just be a loving dad with a flexible work schedule.

Mom to a teenager and a middle schooler.

joensally is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off