Is this normal 9-10yo behavior? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 11-10-2010, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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This has been a great discussion - and has made me realize a lot of things.  First, I do now realize that one of the girls (who made the boyfriend comment) does have a teenaged older brother.  I don't know anything about the girl who made the "suck it" comment.  I plan on letting the teacher know today, as an FYI kind of thing.

 

Also, regarding unsupervised media:  There have definitely been moments when we've been watching a rather innocuous show, and an inappropriate commercial comes on before we can find the mute button.  Or the kids want to go to on demand to get a show, and the are advertising an inappropriate movie.  And dh and I both remember as kids different times when we would be at someone's house and accidentally stumble across the Playboy channel, or Playboy magazines, or something like that.

 

And here's my own embarassing admission.  We just found out that my older son now knows how to google for information.  The other day he asked me about the tallest person in the world.  So we sat down and googled it, and found the information.  Then they wanted to know the shortest, and then asked about the fattest.  I stopped it here and we went on to other things.  The other morning we are lying in bed, and ds1 says to me that there is a woman whose breasts weigh 21lbs.  (Or has he said "21 libs.")  My eyes got real wide and I asked him where he got this information, and he said he googled world's fattest woman and read that each of her breasts weighs 21lbs.  Gulp.  He did this while they were supposed to playing on one of their approved games.  This is when the parental block went on!  (We had tried to do it last year when we set their computer up, but had technical difficulties, and they hadn't shown any interest in anything outside of their approved games.)

 

My older son could also easily tell you what "mindf*#%k" means, since we listen to a lot of Green Day.  (Where is that guilty smiley face when I need it?) 

 

Anyhow, this is all to say that I've calmed down a bit and realized that this situation doesn't necessarily mean that these are twisted disturbed children. 

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Old 11-10-2010, 09:37 AM
 
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Man, you guys are making me feel like some sort of deviant.  When I was that age I knew all that stuff- the bad words and how things worked.  But of course I didn't really understand what it REALLY meant.  And I was never abused. 

 

I'd say yes, I saw a lot of stuff on TV I shouldn't have, and I had older siblings (and that is why I saw what I did on TV).  But I didn't watch porn and we didn't have cable.  I think my parents could have been more careful about what we saw, but the term negligent or neglectful really stings and I don't think they were particularly different in their parenting about media than 90% of the people I knew.

 

Anyway, it is inappropriate to say that sort of stuff, but I really think some of you are underestimating what kids know and how easily they pick up on that sort of thing.  Case in point - my very sheltered daughter learned the words "sex kitten" at the age of 3 - it took us a while to figure out it was from some older kids at the kids play time at church.  Kids just hear things and repeat them.  It's how they learn the things we want them to learn, and how they learn the things we don't want them to learn (or that we don't want them to learn yet).

 

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Old 11-10-2010, 10:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by velochic View Post

I respect that you disagree, but I stand by what I said... which was not that a child is "neglected", but that negligence is involved around media exposure if they are using the vocabulary (which may or may not be with the knowledge of its purpose).

 

I don't think a healthy attitude about sex is going to involved teaching a 9yo techniques to arouse your partner.  Perhaps the mechanics are discussed, but explaining the acts described in the note wouldn't be something that I would *personally* consider to be within the normal range of what is discussed with a pre-pubescent child in a healthy family where there is some conscientious mentoring of media for age.
 

     Is it negligence on the parents' side if the child is exposed to this language/content by their peers at school? or from another child at Karate class,  or overhearing the neighborhood teens, or at a friend's house, etc.?

Remember the law actually allows a parent to decide whether their under 17 yr. old child should watch an R rated movie or not. So if other parents expose their children to R rated content, then those children can easily pass on this info to other children. 

 

     You're making quite the leap because no one here has stated that they would explain sexual acts to their 9 yr olds.

What I'm saying is that it's within the normal range for kids to repeat what they hear, share this info with their peers, have curiosity about sex, try to impress their peers.

A few kids can "set the tone" in a group setting that begins a preoccupation with inappropriate topics (sexual acts, certain language, violence, drugs). The adult/s in charge should then have a discussion about what's appropriate and acceptable in that setting.

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Originally Posted by velochic View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoMaH View Post
All it takes is a few unsupervised minutes for a child to turn on a cable channel, to stumble upon an adults laptop, youtube, google search, read blog/community board comments, overhear an older child, or for children to pass the info on to other children.
It's out there and not always due to neglect.
Mind you, I'm not saying that it wouldn't upset me too.
And all it takes is to put on password locks to avoid this happening. Dd has NEVER stumbled on anything inappropriate from lack of supervision. She has her own parental-controlled laptop and if she tried to use any of ours, she'd encounter a screensaver with password. If she were savvy enough to reboot the computer, she'd still need a password. There is no way for her to have access to inappropriate content. Period.

I'm sorry, but I think that if kids of this age are learning phrases like "would you like to suck it", there is negligence involved... at a minimum.

Even if a child is developing faster and has sexual feelings, they aren't going to think of phrases that were written and said unless someone has already put those ideas into their heads somehow.

Sorry, I don't buy it.
 

 I'm not sure what it is that you're not buying? That other children aren't as highly supervised as others? 

I respect that you disagree with me, although I think you're misunderstanding me and you're thinking that I approve of this behavior, which I clearly don't.

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Old 11-10-2010, 05:20 PM
 
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The loneliness issues wasn't related to sex, but to "having a boyfriend." I found that exchange kinda funny.



I did get some of the specifics incorrect but my main point is kind of like what others said -- kids are sponges at this age (or every age it seems!) and I just wanted to throw out some ideas on ways these things could have been thought up fairly innocently.  I will admit that the idea of wanting a boyfriend because you're lonely is kind of a depressing thing for a young boy or girl to say...but I agree it would be just as easily said in a way that is "cute" or confused instead of creepy co-dependent.  

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Originally Posted by oceanbaby View Post

Anyhow, this is all to say that I've calmed down a bit and realized that this situation doesn't necessarily mean that these are twisted disturbed children. 


We'll have an admission like yours one day...actually I can't believe we haven't had one yet.  I agree as well that it helps to get some perspective and to approach the situation from a more positive angle.  

 

Quote:

What I'm saying is that it's within the normal range for kids to repeat what they hear, share this info with their peers, have curiosity about sex, try to impress their peers.

A few kids can "set the tone" in a group setting that begins a preoccupation with inappropriate topics (sexual acts, certain language, violence, drugs). The adult/s in charge should then have a discussion about what's appropriate and acceptable in that setting.

nod.gif  

 

That was my main point as well.  

 

Now I guess I will need to do some research on parental blocks for the computer.  lol.gif   


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Old 11-10-2010, 06:08 PM
 
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Y'know, I don't think any of the kids really "get" sex talk. The one boy drew a picture of breasts when asking about sucking? Yeah...not an over sexed kid. That's some kid who has heard someone older laugh at a joke or something and got an idea in his head. Now he's trying to use that idea to impress his friends.

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Old 11-10-2010, 06:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama View Post

I will admit that the idea of wanting a boyfriend because you're lonely is kind of a depressing thing for a young boy or girl to say...but I agree it would be just as easily said in a way that is "cute" or confused instead of creepy co-dependent.  


 

I think it's funny that a boy asked *why* a girl wanted a boyfriend. If any of us had a friend who was currently single who said they would like to start seeing someone, we wouldn't ask "why." We think it's normal to want to be in a relationship. It's a question that doesn't really have a great answer. It's how humans are wired, but it kicks in for different people at very different ages (and often for girls younger than for boys).

 


but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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Old 11-10-2010, 07:15 PM
 
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I think it's funny that a boy asked *why* a girl wanted a boyfriend. 

So true, when you think if it that way!!   
 


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Old 11-11-2010, 06:09 AM
 
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 I'm not sure what it is that you're not buying? That other children aren't as highly supervised as others? 

I respect that you disagree with me, although I think you're misunderstanding me and you're thinking that I approve of this behavior, which I clearly don't.



I think I'm being a little misunderstood, as well.  I'm not saying that if your child picks it up from a kid at school, it's a parent's "fault".  I'm saying that if parents *in general* all took the time to block the playboy channels, and talk to their olders about what they say in front of the youngers, watch their own language, properly manage media, etc. that the knowledge to even say such things wouldn't be there.  And I think that it's important that if parents are more open, that they make sure that their children are mature enough to also understand, "Not all families feel it's appropriate to talk about this in a public manner, so any information I'm giving you should be kept to yourself and not talked about at school."  If kids can't keep it to themselves, they're not mature enough to have the info.  That is my *opinion*.

 

I'm talking about the source of the information and that it is my opinion that if parents are allowing their 8,9,10 year olds to learn about actual sexual TECHNIQUE, that yea, it's not appropriate and there is some lack of common sense there.  I think that if ANY parent stops to think about it, they probably would think that these graphic descriptions at that age are not appropriate and wouldn't approve of it.  That's not what I was saying AT ALL.  I'm sorry we've misunderstood each other.

 

ETA:  a commercial isn't going to teach kids this kind of vocabulary, so that's the kind of thing that I'm saying "I don't buy".  Even primetime TV doesn't teach a child of 9 to write the note in the OP... and "I don't buy" that they will make the jump from suck to breast on their own at that age in an innocent way.

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Old 11-11-2010, 06:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama View Post

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Originally Posted by velochic View Post
there is negligence involved... at a minimum.
I respectfully disagree.

The first reason is because I just would not be comfortable approaching the situation by suggesting (even in my head) that these children are neglected.

 

The words "neglected" and "negligence" may have the same root-- but they do not mean the same thing at all. I think here is where there's a huge misunderstanding. 

 

 

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Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post

I found that exchange kinda funny. It does seem that girls are a little ahead of boys on the attraction deal, and sometimes want boy friends before the boys want girlfriends. But, at some point, it's natural to want a boy friend or a girl friend, and it's difficult to explain why. We are just wired that way. (all use of hetrosexual language is just to try to explain how I feel about attraction, and doesn't assume that all children are hetrosexual)

"Having a boyfriend" doesn't have much to do with sex at this age, but rather with simply liking the idea that some one likes you.

 

FTR-- my man is nearing 54 years old, and he did not know that "boyfriend" or "girlfriend" means usually a romantic context. He thought those words as meant a boy or girl that is a friend. I had to explain that no, if you mean "friend", you usually just say "friend" without the more specific "boy-" or "girl-" in front of it. And we both grew up here in the USA in the same town at the same high school in the same time period. So...who knows shrug.gif


 

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Originally Posted by Tjej View Post

I'd say yes, I saw a lot of stuff on TV I shouldn't have, and I had older siblings (and that is why I saw what I did on TV).  But I didn't watch porn and we didn't have cable.  I think my parents could have been more careful about what we saw, but the term negligent or neglectful really stings and I don't think they were particularly different in their parenting about media than 90% of the people I knew.



This. I was really innocent/naive, but really precocious, too. Bad combo, I know! I'm a Scorpio, what can I say...but I used to read stuff-- I'm almost 51, so context here-- I used to read things like The Exorcist and Jaws that came out as movies that I wasn't allowed to watch. My parents thought those movies were highly inappropriate. But if you read the books, you know that imagination is really much more powerful than an image on a screen. Not to mention I have never forgotten the scene in the book, that wasn't in the movie, where the woman is going to meet the sea-captain guy (in Jaws) for a casual sex encounter. I was all of 13 when I read that, maybe, and back then 13 was lots more innocent than I think it might be now. My parents never knew I read that sort of thing, but they sure were going to keep me away from movies that had that sort of stuff!

AND, I never acted on it. I deliberately kept my virginity till college.

 

Dunno if that's any helpful, but there it is.

 

Plus, my ds (9) knows a LOT more about sex, I think, than his peers. He knows the mechanics, he has a rudimentary knowledge that there is more to sex than penetration, he gets the idea that it's pleasurable (when you're older!), he knows that it's not OK for him to pleasure himself at the expense of his partner. Yes, we talk about this stuff. No, he doesn't talk about it at school, and he knows what the consequences would be if he did. Not just from me, but the derision from his peers, and the trouble it would cause with his teachers and administrators. Plus he thinks it's gross. As appropriately he should.
 


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Old 11-11-2010, 07:00 AM
 
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Originally Posted by velochic View Post

ETA:  a commercial isn't going to teach kids this kind of vocabulary, so that's the kind of thing that I'm saying "I don't buy".  Even primetime TV doesn't teach a child of 9 to write the note in the OP... and "I don't buy" that they will make the jump from suck to breast on their own at that age in an innocent way.


My ds totally used the word suck with breast as a result of being breastfed.  He told me when I stopped producing milk that he still "liked to suck."  And since he doesn't have anything that protrudes as much as an adult female's nipple, he logically went to his penis as the only thing he had that could be sucked.  Completely innocent and not sexual. 


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Old 11-11-2010, 09:51 AM
 
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Interesting. We are very open minded with our children about sex. We don't pretend people don't do it, we dont shame them for being aware of their bodies. We want them to talk to us if they ever feel the need to. Of course we arent talking about the act of sex we just don't hide it from them if that makes any sense.My kids are in the full swing of pre-pubescent hormones. My 7yr old thinks girls are hot, while my soon to be 10 yr old has no interest in boys whatsoever.

 

We know another family who have been very explicit with their daughters.(6 &5) While I am all about knowing the proper terms for body parts these girls are exposed to a wide variety of adult sexual language that "I feel" is inappropriate at their age levels, however they aren't my kids so my opinion is just that. One day the 6 yr old wanted to see my son's *ding ding* as he calls it, he replied to her that is "potty talk". He did tell me what happened and I spoke with the parents who thought it was rather funny. I did not, but again not my kids..the point is that kids are going to be influenced by other kids and the values that the parents instill in them are what is going to make them curious about the opposite sex. I did ask my son what he thought about it, and he said he thought she was trying to get him into trouble.

 

On the other hand, I remember being around 10 or 11 and my cousin who is the same age having sex with boys who were 12 or 13ish and I was completely oblivious to what the heck she was talking about..neither of us were sexually abused ftw and we were together every single weekend from birth (our moms swapped weekends for babysitting) we were just completely different people and we still are today. IMO our differences stemmed from going to different schools and being around different peers.


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Old 11-11-2010, 12:13 PM
 
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I think I'm being a little misunderstood, as well.  I'm not saying that if your child picks it up from a kid at school, it's a parent's "fault".  I'm saying that if parents *in general* all took the time to block the playboy channels, and talk to their olders about what they say in front of the youngers, watch their own language, properly manage media, etc. that the knowledge to even say such things wouldn't be there. .


But this assumes an unrealistic ideal world.  In the real world, older kids will slip things to younger kids, whether or not parent instruct them about appropriate subject matter. 

 

I guess what bothered me most about the op was the way the kids seemed to be discussing things so openly--as if they didn't "get" that it was a private subject.   It seems odd to me, but maybe my 9 yo experience of hearing these things in a "Top Secret!" hush-hush way wasn't totally healthy either, lol.

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Old 11-11-2010, 12:23 PM
 
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But this assumes an unrealistic ideal world.  In the real world, older kids will slip things to younger kids, whether or not parent instruct them about appropriate subject matter.


I guess what bothered me most about the op was the way the kids seemed to be discussing things so openly--as if they didn't "get" that it was a private subject.   It seems odd to me, but maybe my 9 yo experience of hearing these things in a "Top Secret!" hush-hush way wasn't totally healthy either, lol.


Agreed. Parents often do NOT control what their teens say, and having watched very nice parents deal with some very difficult teens, what the younger child overhears is really the least of their problems.

 

I also agree that the openness of what the kids were saying is odd to me, and even though I don't see any red flags that these kids are abused/neglected/etc., The conversations and the concept of privacy still needs to be dealt with.

 

In my role as as school volunteer, I overhead some boys giggling about body part names in the library the other day. Some of the boys were obviously well informed, but the information and names were still part of what parents who are open with the children would generally provide. However, I told them they needed to find something else to talk about. They hadn't realized I was on the other side of the bookshelf, and were MORTIFIED that I overheard.


but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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Old 11-11-2010, 01:36 PM
 
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The words "neglected" and "negligence" may have the same root-- but they do not mean the same thing at all. I think here is where there's a huge misunderstanding.

 

Yes, that could be part of the misunderstanding though I do think I understand where Velochic is coming from.  Though, up until now, I never though that neglect and negligence meant do significantly different things.  Perhaps I need someone to expand on that.   Here is a definition I found on line for negligence:  Law the failure to exercise that degree of care that, in thecircumstances, the law requires for the protection of otherpersons or those interests of other persons that may beinjuriously affected by the want of such care.  

 

That seems synomous with neglect to me.  shrug.gif 

 

Regardless, I do think I understand where Veolchic is coming from.  If I were to guess I would assume that we know/have very different temperament of kids.  Mine has been a crazy sponge with a fairly cute lack of understanding of things.  Because of that, I can totally see each of the things that were said in that class coming from her with very little inappropriate exposure from us.  I wish I could think of some of the better examples of this kind of thing in terms of sexual things.  

 

A funny example unrelated to sex is that my DC has actually listened to Omnivore's Dilemma (she LOVED it!) and we have lots of natural foodie friends and etc.  She has a "whole foods exchange" at her school and understands the concept of a whole food.  Even with all of that - I just found out this year that she also thought that whole foods meant UNCUT foods and that is why she started asking to have her fruit uncut.  This was at 9.  

 

Perhaps another difference is in where some of us lay the "blame".  Personally, I lay the "blame" in this case with the teacher.  Though I think it's appropriate for her to speak with the individual parents after he/she becomes aware of what's going on I still feel that it is the role of the teacher to be sure that conversation about something like this remains healthy for the good of the classroom.  Because it's 3 kids involved and 4 if you include the OP's child, I think this is a matter more of the classroom dynamic encouraging this kind of confused misinformation rather than the other way around.  

 

Originally Posted by 4evermom View Post




My ds totally used the word suck with breast as a result of being breastfed.  He told me when I stopped producing milk that he still "liked to suck."  And since he doesn't have anything that protrudes as much as an adult female's nipple, he logically went to his penis as the only thing he had that could be sucked.  Completely innocent and not sexual. 


Yes, if DC were to discuss much of what she has learned and what we are open with with regards to nursing, birth, healthy intimacy and all of that it could get really interesting!  Especially because she wants to start nursing again when this new baby comes.  lol.gif   NOT going to happen!  

 

Anyway, sorry to get so many of the facts wrong and maybe even some of the language.  Part of my brain has left the building during this pregnancy.  I've enjoyed hearing all of your opinions -- both sides for sure!  It's helpful to hear what other parents are feeling/thinking about this kind of thing because I think we may be coming up on this subject in the next year or two...especially if the conversations of the middle schoolers my DC shares campus with are any indication.  

 

Lots of love, mamas!!  


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Old 11-12-2010, 01:24 AM
 
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My daughter is 9 (10 in Feb) and in the 4th grade. She doesn't talk about boys, or liking boys, but I have seen messages from her friends (not to her) about thinking a celebrity is "hot". It just grosses Kai out. Kai knows "where babies come from" and that one day she may want to have babies and that her body will change, but she is not interested in anything other than baby dolls and art.

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Old 11-12-2010, 05:07 AM
 
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Wow - the fact that these young kids are saying some intense things is one thing.  Your child may know about sex and be open to it, but does he go around saying he wants to suck people?

 

The kids themselves are not bad though - they are in a bad pattern of speech and action, *and* they are trying to use their words (forget what they are) for power over another kid.  That needs to be addressed, as well as the content. 

 

Sex does not have to be hush, hush, secret, but it should not be a dirty little slam either.  "Someone" (parents, teachers, someone!) needs to work with these kids to get them more respectful.  I think a huge issue here is how the teacher blew it off.  It sounded to me as if the OP was looking for some support and got an "its not a big deal."  That was wrong.

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Old 11-12-2010, 05:35 AM
 
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Yes, this all sounds to me like kids have overheard things and are repeating them without fully understanding what they're saying. The "I'm lonely" thing is SUCH a common theme in so many movies and tv shows and even books, not to mention the possibility that a child heard it from an adult or teenager they know. 

And as was said, the "suck it" isn't usually correlated with breasts, so that sounds like another form of confusion. 

And a child saying, within earshot of an adult, about liking to have sex sounds to me like a kid that doesn't grasp what he's even saying, or he would be more cautious with saying it. 

 

My older son is 8 1/2 and in 3rd grade and there's a girl in school who's "in love" with him. I find it really hilarious. He says he likes her, but he doesn't love her, even though she says "I love you" to him multiple times a day. *shrug* I don't see an issue. It's all silly fun. There's nothing inappropriate and I'm not worried about it. They're never alone. The closest thing they have to alone time is sitting a couple of rows away from each other on the bus. 

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Old 12-03-2010, 02:44 AM
 
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I have a feeling that a lot of parents aren't entirely aware of what their kids are interested in at 9 and 10.  Discussing boyfriends and such is quite common in my class (Although my students know that I think they are way too young for it, and now attempt to do it out of my earshot, but as we all know, 10 year olds aren't that subtle or quiet!) and there was one incident of a sexually explicit insult made.  So sexually explicit that I, someone completely open and embracing of sex and all of the fun that comes with it, had to wikipedia the term.  I probably would have been in the same mindset as many other parents on here (e.g. thinking that one child who said it must have been abused or something) except that it was obvious that 75% of my class knew the term.  I am in my twenties, so I certainly don't think I am out of the loop, but kids are way more sexual and "in the know" about things than we think they are.  Which is why we need to give them the correct info early.

 

In reference to the O.P - I would also give the teacher a copy of the notes, and receive reassurance that the issue will be dealt with in a manner that works for both of you.  I don't think you would be "that parent" in this situation.  I know plenty of those parents haha, and in this situation, I would be appreciative that it had been brought to my attention from a concerned (but from the sounds of it, polite) parent.

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Old 12-07-2010, 07:38 AM
 
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Whether or not it is normal for this age to have such knowledge or thoughts -- maybe -- but not appropriate language or actions for school -- definitely. I agree, copy notes and take to the teacher.

 

I also agree with Tjej though -- there is a note of challenge to these interactions. As if this is more about feeling your son out for his level of sophistication. I remember in 4th and 5th grade this sort of conversation going on among kids when a new kid moved in. He tried to fit in by bragging about experiences nobody else had -- it was a kind of pecking order/making friends kind of thing. And the kids didn't really know what they were talking about -- terms were used and exchanged as currency, without really knowing what they meant. I don't mean to minimize, this is totally not appropriate for school and I'm glad it's going over your son's head -- you hate to think they will get warped by hearing this stuff so out of context. But I wonder if this is showing up because the kids don't really know what they are talking about and so don't know they are being so inappropriate. Like they know it is taboo and so therefore cool or edgy, but they don't know the weight of the stuff they are dealing with.

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