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#31 of 46 Old 11-29-2010, 06:23 AM
 
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I just wanted to clarify, in case there was any confusion, the arts high school I mentioned is not a private school. It is part of the public school system. Entrance is by audition only, but that's the only limitation on attending. There are students from far suburbs and neighbouring cities that attend the school and they have a fairly long commute everyday. Because of its solid reputation, the school attracts students from every socio-economic level. I think many students see it as a way to avoid their local school if that school is academically poor or has bullying etc. problems, so there may be a slightly higher proportion of students from poor neighbourhoods or problem school districts (not necessarily the same thing!). 

 

The public system also offers special programs in IB, science and tech, language immersion, graphic arts, applied tech and apprenticeships, and community development/social justice, as well as alternative schools that allow for independent study/cyberschooling/etc.  In fact, the school board has recently attracted criticism for trying too many specialized programs and not concentrating on basic, core schooling. 

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#32 of 46 Old 12-09-2010, 10:58 AM
 
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I think that even without all those conditions met that a child would get a better education at home, especially in the K-8 grades.

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#33 of 46 Old 12-09-2010, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm about 75% sure we will return to hsing next year. Maybe sooner if school becomes more harm than good for dd1. If we come into alot of money in the next few months (wishful thinking), I would probably look into private. But honestly, the privates in our area are small, not very financially stable and only go up to 5th grade... so its not a long term solution to ps. I feel so disappointed in our ps system. It could be so much more than it is.... 

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#34 of 46 Old 12-09-2010, 03:52 PM
 
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Most people who home school have very little of this, very little money, yet still do a better job than public schools. It is not hard to teach 1+1 and you don't need tutors for every little thing. Public school basically has a mystique surrounding it. People think it is doing something that they cannot possibly do at home, something good at that. What they don't realize is that the teachers are just human beings and the books are just books and the kids are still the same kids, and so on, the buildings are made of dry wall and brick and wood and such, etc etc etc. I used to teach and honestly, there is no magic to it. 

 

You do not need endless money for any number of supplies, you don't need tutors, you don't need any of that.

 

I think it would be good if you got a really close up look at what really goes on in a school day at school, and in the week and over the course of a year. You might sit back and say "hey wait, I could have done better, and not spent tax payers dollars at the rate of thousands of dollars a child."
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeteaa View Post

If your dc attend school.....

 

and If you were able to hs them AND you hypothetically:

 

have enough $ to buy any supplies, pay for classes, hire tutors

have enough patience to be with your dc most all of the day

have a educational enriching home environment

could drive to many educational places

have  hs support groups in your area

partner is supportive of hsing

relatives are supportive of hsing

you don't mind not working

ETC...

 

Do you think your dc would receive a BETTER education than they receive at school?



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#35 of 46 Old 12-09-2010, 04:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeteaa View Post

If your dc attend school.....

 

and If you were able to hs them AND you hypothetically:

 

have enough $ to buy any supplies, pay for classes, hire tutors

have enough patience to be with your dc most all of the day

have a educational enriching home environment

could drive to many educational places

have  hs support groups in your area

partner is supportive of hsing

relatives are supportive of hsing

you don't mind not working

ETC...

 

Do you think your dc would receive a BETTER education than they receive at school?


Nope, because of one very, very important factor... DD doesn't want to be homeschooled.


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#36 of 46 Old 12-10-2010, 01:42 AM
 
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yes.

 

in our case.

 

since dd is an extremely independent child her personality is perfect for unschooling. 

 

it would mean me not work as her teacher, but as a 'supplier' who supplies her the stuff and she figures it out on her own.

right now we DO do that - so we have a combination school adn hs schedule. 

 

dd is a one on one learner who likes to spend time mulling over what she is learning - instead of study for 45 mins and move on to another subject.

 

that is why summer is a great time for us. lots of time to play and do outside stuff. but also time to spend say 5 hours studying the world map and seeing how the climate map reflects the vegetation map. 

 

 

better education? i am not sure better 'education' would be the right word.

 

it would be a better way of feeling and discovering what dd's passions are. 

 

i personally feel we focus too much too early on teh wrong things. at 5 kids are not interested in reading. they are mostly interested in science experiments. so i really think K should be about science and social sciences and ethics and languages and project instead of english and math. 


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#37 of 46 Old 12-10-2010, 11:00 AM
 
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This is interesting to me, as it's something I've wrestled with since (and before) my oldest started kindergarten this fall.  

 

On one hand, he's a very independent learner, and a bright kid.  He's a couple grade levels ahead in most areas, a point that he reached relatively organically before starting school.  When I have instructed him at all, the relationship has worked well.  I feel like, right now, I know the best "next steps" for my son in terms of reading, language, math, et cetera, and I sometimes wish we had the time to work on those things together, as there hasn't been a lot going on at school to challenge him academically.  

 

We put him in (local public) school, though, and agreed to give it some time.  

 

What I've seen is that he is, in fact, way ahead of the curve, especially in reading.  (He's not the only one, though--he's one of 3-4 in his class.  The teacher recently tested him and 3 others into an "accelerate readers" program that allows him to check more than one book out of the library at a time, and from a different section of the library, and he takes a test of comprehension on the computer upon returning his book(s).)  Still, I know he could be learning more, advancing more quickly, et cetera with my help at home (or, really, even just the TIME to do it--but ridiculously long school days are another subject for another thread, I suppose).  

 

But all of that is sort of what we expected.  What we didn't expect was to see such a spike in his creativity, his drive to learn, and his willingness to try new things.  Before starting school, he almost never sat down to draw/paint/whatever unless he was prompted (and, actually, "prompted" isn't quite the right word and neither is "forced."  Something in the middle winky.gif); now he regularly spends hours (plural!) coloring, cutting, taping, gluing, and generally creating.  He also wouldn't attempt to draw representationally (without a lot of encouragement) before school; now he does.  He could read before he started school, but refused to try to spell words, apparently for fear of spelling incorrectly--now he'll write pages full of phonetically-but-not-necessarily-correctly-spelled sentences, and seems happy to be able to finally write, even if he isn't spelling everything correctly.  

 

I'm not sure whether to chalk this up to the group dynamic that school provides, or whether to credit his teacher, or whether maybe he just made some coincidental developmental leaps around the time he started kindergarten, but these are such exciting changes--I would much rather see him tape together paper robots and write letters to his grandparents independently than have him reading at a 4th-or-5th-grade level--and I suspect this would have been the trade-off for homeschooling, at least this year.

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#38 of 46 Old 12-10-2010, 11:33 AM
 
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Yes I believe my children would get a better education if they were homeschooled.  We don't have choices here, it's local public school or nothing.  I go to school full time (ironically enough to be an early childhood educator).  Dh works full time and goes to school full time.  We just can't afford it, plain and simple. My oldest dd is in Quest, which is the gifted program. She is doing all the cool stuff and learning how to be a divergent thinker.  Basically, she is getting the ideal educational experience. It makes me sad for my other kids and all the other kids who are getting the NCLB version of education.  My oldest dd is getting the type of education that is exemplified in my college classes, and I think it should be available to all children. 


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#39 of 46 Old 12-10-2010, 07:31 PM
 
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Yes.

 

Having done both now, I think that a homeschooled education, given the parameters you laid out, is a better education.  I think homeschooling is often a better education even without any of the resources you mentioned above.  Of course so much depends on the child and various circumstances, but generically, a child will advance more quickly and get more out of a custom education.  I mean, even adults do - my dh and I have taken group dance lessons, and while they are great, we learn a lot more when we spring for a private lesson.  However, my child loves to work in groups with his peers, so in an ideal world, I would have enough money to hire a tutor and have 5 or 6 other hs kids join us.

 

However, we do not have money for unlimited tutors and classes (which my older son definitey prefers), and I'm not crazy about our local hs group, so right now my kids are in public school, and I'd say it's about 50/50 to which one I think is better.

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#40 of 46 Old 12-12-2010, 05:43 PM
 
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Any answer worth its salt is going to make sure that you understand that one size does not fit all, and that size may change!  So homeschooling may be right for some, experiential based education right for others, Waldorf right for a third, public school great for a fourth - ETC ETC.

 

You really need to weigh what you think your family and your child would benefit from either situation.  There are some ideal cases out there, but really, there are lots of compromises.

 

Having HS'd one for many years, and PS'd the others (and him now too), one huge benefit is that *I* look at education in a unique way.  I evaluate each child, each school year on whether their personal goals are being met, and weigh the compromises we make. 

 

I would have no problem returning them to HS if I thought we were making too many compromises with PS education.  At the time we HSd, I am so clear it was the right decision and really helped my child have a basis as a solid learner and allowed him to develop at a rational pace.  My other children are in different schools, and are different kids, and for them, enter school at Gr. 1 (for DS2) and K (for #3), worked.

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#41 of 46 Old 12-13-2010, 06:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almama View Post

Any answer worth its salt is going to make sure that you understand that one size does not fit all, and that size may change!  So homeschooling may be right for some, experiential based education right for others, Waldorf right for a third, public school great for a fourth - ETC ETC.

 

You really need to weigh what you think your family and your child would benefit from either situation.  There are some ideal cases out there, but really, there are lots of compromises.

 

 


While I agree with you absolutely, I think it's worth pointing out that the OP only asked about "your child" and thus seemed to be seeking specific responses about individuals, not generalized philosophies.  I presumed that she already recognizes that one size doesn't fit all and is curious about the different sizes and shapes that exist out there. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeteaa View Post

If your dc attend school.....

 

and If you were able to hs them AND you hypothetically:

 

have enough $ to buy any supplies, pay for classes, hire tutors

have enough patience to be with your dc most all of the day

have a educational enriching home environment

could drive to many educational places

have  hs support groups in your area

partner is supportive of hsing

relatives are supportive of hsing

you don't mind not working

ETC...

 

Do you think your dc would receive a BETTER education than they receive at school?


 

 



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#42 of 46 Old 12-18-2010, 01:15 AM
 
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I don't feel there is a mystique to public school, and in fact was terrified at the idea of sending my child into the public system. I heavily considered private school, but decided to give public a chance due to the cost (almost free -- we pay $200/month for K in my city). But now that he's actually in public school, it has far exceeded my expectations. It's not just about learning math/reading, but also the classroom social dynamic, exposure to new concepts/skills, and making friends w/ children from diverse backgrounds. I've volunteered multiple times just to observe the classroom at work. There really is something created there that I cannot duplicate at home. Also, the teacher is amazing & has cultivated a really supportive environment for the kids. My son loves going (and I think loves having a place away from home that is all his, akin to our workplaces). I compare his experience with that of his homeschooled best friend, and feel that the public system in my town offers more than the local homeschooling communities. My son may learn certain math and reading concepts faster w/ 1:1 attention at home at the K level, if homeschooled, but the group dynamic in school spurs him to learn in other ways that are better accomplished in school (ie. creativity, social skills, public speaking, attention and behavior, teambuilding, learning how to not always being the "best" or "first"). I place value in all of these types of learning. Additionally, our K-8 school has a science specialist that forms curriculum for all the grades, and much of the middle school curriculum is taught by teachers w/ advanced degrees; I like that they really understand the material at a deeper level than myself, for they can offer stronger teaching in these areas than just me and a workbook. And in his future HS career, he will have IB and AP options, all free. Finally, I like being just the parent, where our activites are fun first, educational second.

 

Obviously people come to different conclusions for their own children, hence the many types of education. I echo what has been stated on this thread multiple times, that it's great families have choices!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post

Most people who home school have very little of this, very little money, yet still do a better job than public schools. It is not hard to teach 1+1 and you don't need tutors for every little thing. Public school basically has a mystique surrounding it. People think it is doing something that they cannot possibly do at home, something good at that. What they don't realize is that the teachers are just human beings and the books are just books and the kids are still the same kids, and so on, the buildings are made of dry wall and brick and wood and such, etc etc etc. I used to teach and honestly, there is no magic to it. 

 

You do not need endless money for any number of supplies, you don't need tutors, you don't need any of that.

 

I think it would be good if you got a really close up look at what really goes on in a school day at school, and in the week and over the course of a year. You might sit back and say "hey wait, I could have done better, and not spent tax payers dollars at the rate of thousands of dollars a child."
 

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#43 of 46 Old 12-19-2010, 03:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post

I think that even without all those conditions met that a child would get a better education at home, especially in the K-8 grades.


Based on my own experience, I needed to be away from my mother.  I would not have learned well under my mother.  My father?  That's arguable.  Public school was the best thing that could have happened to me.  I think learning also depends largely on the relationship and dynamic of the family.  I excelled and grew outside the family unit.  I love my parents but I needed exposure beyond them and their various foibles.  Not saying that all families operate like mine, but I think it is a broad generalization to say that children will get a better education at home.  That only occurs if all the circumstances at home are ripe for education and learning.  

 

I think the thing that was valuable to me learning outside the home was that I could think freely when I was away from parents, without the guilt of thinking freely.  There was the "party line" at home and that really threw a wrench in things.  Not that there were not party lines at school, but there was a lot more diversity, the ability to stand alone or to join other like-minded individuals. To me, that is just as important as learning 1+1.  I needed to grow as an individual as well as learn.  Of course none of this probably applies to the people at MDC, since most tout self-expression anyway.  But, to the general population, I honestly don't know a lot of kids who would do better at home.  Perhaps the kids within DD's own group would do great at home, simply because their parents value education to start with.  A lot of people  don't value "learning" (which I think is more than just learning math and language).    I need a lot of evidence before I change my mind.  Sorry.


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#44 of 46 Old 12-20-2010, 08:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

I have noticed that many of the above have children in private or alternative type schools - which makes me wonder if your answers would be the same if your only options were your local public school.  Of course, if you are wealthy in first place - your local public school may not be that bad.

 

 

My kids have homeschooled, attended public school, and currently attend a wonderful private school.  I was careful in my post to state only thing that were true of their public school experience.

 

Their public school wasn't wealthy but rather was very economically diverse. The elementary was a Title One school. It was a wonderful school because the staff was amazing and the parents were involved, but not because the families were wealthy.

 

The private school my kids attend is also financially diverse.  Some families live in small apartments but education is more important to them that having a big house. We have a scholarship program.There are also some families with lots of money. It's a mix. A far bigger mix that I would have guessed before I got there. One mom is a single mom who supports her kids by cleaning houses and running the after school program. One dad drops his kids off in his mercedes on his way to work. 


but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#45 of 46 Old 12-20-2010, 08:52 AM
 
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Depends on the school system.  The one we just moved from, my kids were better off being homeschooled.  But here, no they are better off in school.  It all depends on where we are.


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#46 of 46 Old 12-20-2010, 08:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petie1104 View Post

Depends on the school system.  The one we just moved from, my kids were better off being homeschooled.  But here, no they are better off in school.  It all depends on where we are.



This is so true. Additionally, it depends on the kid and the parent's abilities/motivation.

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