Repeating kindergarten - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 38 Old 05-07-2011, 12:40 PM
 
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I think it's important to recognize that studies talking about kids being "older for grade" are almost always talking about kids who are "naturally" on the older side for grade. NOT kids who are retained a grade or red-shirted to be unnaturally old for grade. BIG difference.


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#32 of 38 Old 05-09-2011, 01:51 PM
 
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I was slightly young-for-grade and my school-related depression (in high school)  came from not having the study skills to cope when I actually had to work in school. The shock of not being able to do all my homework in 30 minutes was bad enough, I had been a year old and got hit with not being able to do all my homework in 15 minutes, it would've been worse.

 

And, as it turned out, I ended up in the last class to be able to take Latin, of course I missed out on the Farsi classes by about 2 years, so there's always something.

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#33 of 38 Old 05-09-2011, 09:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristaN View Post

 However, a review of the studies on grade retention and holding out age eligible children so they'd be older (published in 2003) did find that old for grade

children were more likely to suffer from depression, be involved in bullying, have other behavior problems, and not graduate high school.  All of the social issues showed up much later in the schooling experience (age 12 and later).


My take on that, as the parent of kid with mild special needs who is now older (14) is that it is possible that a lot of kids who parents feel they aren't ready and therefore hold them back, or who are later retained by, have underlying issues that may or may not be appropriately diagnosed and addressed. Although it may seem quite simple to parents of neuro typical kids that sn kids need to have neat labels and IEPs and all that, the reality is fuzzier. For kids with just *mild* sn, kids who are barely on the spectrum, kids who are just kinda ADD, it's difficult to figure it out and address.

 

It is also known that kids with these kinds of issues are more likely to struggle with anxiety and depression during adolesence, regardless of their age for grade or what kind of school they attend. It's a tough age for most kids, but when you add in something like high functioning autism, it's a disaster.

 

Also, some kids with quirks are more likely to have social problems they older they get because the social norms change very fast and they can't keep up, and children are more likely to over look quirks than teens. People get picker about their friends they older they get, and demand more from those relationships. Demands that quirker kids can't meet.

 

And a lot of these kids are perfect targets for bullies. They don't know how to handle the situations, and they are odd kids.

 

Add that to the self-realization that they are different, different to the core, and different in ways that their peers do not accept.

 

It's no wonder that depression is common for SN kids in this age range, no matter if they have neat labels or not, and no matter if they are old for grade or not.

 

_________________

 

So all of that it is say that while I can easily see why kids who are held back or retained would be more likely to be depressed, be bullied, or have social problems, I disagree on the cause and the effect. Holding them doesn't make these things happen, but what ever the reason was for holding them back is the root cause. Holding them back was just a guess -- may be if we give them more time, it will fix the problem. But it didn't fix the problem.

 

___________________

 

Back to the OP, I think the cut off is nuts, and that your child doesn't need to be so young for the demands made on him. He's just a little kid. In his case, I think more time might be the answer.


but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#34 of 38 Old 05-10-2011, 04:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post

So all of that it is say that while I can easily see why kids who are held back or retained would be more likely to be depressed, be bullied, or have social problems, I disagree on the cause and the effect. Holding them doesn't make these things happen, but what ever the reason was for holding them back is the root cause. Holding them back was just a guess -- may be if we give them more time, it will fix the problem. But it didn't fix the problem.

 

 

That's what I was wondering too. In many cases, something is going on with the child that is making parents want to hold him/her back. That something doesn't always go away within a year. There is a boy in my son's first grade who turned 8 in March (so he would have started kinder at 6.5 yo). He is often in trouble for aggressive behavior and I have no doubt that he would be in as much trouble if he was in 2nd grade. He probably was aggressive in preschool and his parents were advised to hold him back and let him grow out of it.
 

OP - Are you still around? It's close to the end of the school year, what did you end up doing?

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#35 of 38 Old 05-10-2011, 06:24 AM
 
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

 

Although it may seem quite simple to parents of neuro typical kids that sn kids need to have neat labels and IEPs and all that, the reality is fuzzier.

 

Interesting take on things and I do think that I got a little of that same thought from the author of the article -- that the reason some of these kids appeared to be needing time to mature actually had to do with mild SN that wouldn't magically go away by waiting a year.  I do think that you are right, though, that the labels and IEP won't make things perfect at school.  My oldest is very bright and has some sensory issues but not enough so that I'd place her as something other than NT.  My youngest, on the other hand, is twice exceptional (HG with ADD and anxiety).  There have been no magic solutions for her.  She is, by far, the youngest in her grade but having her be the oldest would not have been a solution either.  She'd still have ADD and still need advanced material that she'd have difficulty attending to.  Or she can coast and get very good grades in regular classes with no accommodations for her ADD but that isn't what she needs either.  She needs something that schools pretty much can't or won't provide.

 

I'm only commenting in response to Linda's thoughts, though, not in anyway implying that the OP's kiddo is SN!

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#36 of 38 Old 05-11-2011, 06:03 AM
 
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Very well said!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post




My take on that, as the parent of kid with mild special needs who is now older (14) is that it is possible that a lot of kids who parents feel they aren't ready and therefore hold them back, or who are later retained by, have underlying issues that may or may not be appropriately diagnosed and addressed. Although it may seem quite simple to parents of neuro typical kids that sn kids need to have neat labels and IEPs and all that, the reality is fuzzier. For kids with just *mild* sn, kids who are barely on the spectrum, kids who are just kinda ADD, it's difficult to figure it out and address.

 

It is also known that kids with these kinds of issues are more likely to struggle with anxiety and depression during adolesence, regardless of their age for grade or what kind of school they attend. It's a tough age for most kids, but when you add in something like high functioning autism, it's a disaster.

 

Also, some kids with quirks are more likely to have social problems they older they get because the social norms change very fast and they can't keep up, and children are more likely to over look quirks than teens. People get picker about their friends they older they get, and demand more from those relationships. Demands that quirker kids can't meet.

 

And a lot of these kids are perfect targets for bullies. They don't know how to handle the situations, and they are odd kids.

 

Add that to the self-realization that they are different, different to the core, and different in ways that their peers do not accept.

 

It's no wonder that depression is common for SN kids in this age range, no matter if they have neat labels or not, and no matter if they are old for grade or not.

 

_________________

 

So all of that it is say that while I can easily see why kids who are held back or retained would be more likely to be depressed, be bullied, or have social problems, I disagree on the cause and the effect. Holding them doesn't make these things happen, but what ever the reason was for holding them back is the root cause. Holding them back was just a guess -- may be if we give them more time, it will fix the problem. But it didn't fix the problem.

 

___________________

 

Back to the OP, I think the cut off is nuts, and that your child doesn't need to be so young for the demands made on him. He's just a little kid. In his case, I think more time might be the answer.



 

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#37 of 38 Old 05-11-2011, 07:25 AM
 
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Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristaN View Post

 

 I do think that you are right, though, that the labels and IEP won't make things perfect at school.  My oldest is very bright and has some sensory issues but not enough so that I'd place her as something other than NT. 

...

I'm only commenting in response to Linda's thoughts, though, not in anyway implying that the OP's kiddo is SN!


 

Getting the right label for child *can* be harder than most people realize, and figuring out what accommodations should go along with that is a whole different issue. Not because parents and schools don't want to do what works for the child, but because often, it isn't the least bit clear to anyone what that might be.

 

Every special needs child different. It's not like they have a standard protocol for kids with aspergers that they can just follow and it will work.

 

Sensory issues fall into an odd category -- they do not get any accommodations at school, no matter how serious. Sensory issues, on their own don't count. For my DD who is on the spectrum, her sensory issues were some of her biggest problems with school, and she could have accommodations for them because she's on the spectrum. But for a child with just sensory issues, the school's hands are tied.

 

I also agree that the OPer's child doesn't sound like he has any sn, just is a very young child in a situation he isn't ready for.


but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#38 of 38 Old 05-11-2011, 03:07 PM
 
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Not to further derail the thread ;) , but we did actually get a 504 for dd12's sensory issues when she was younger.  She was actually a pretty easy one to accommodate b/c things like seating away from noisy objects, ability to take tests in separate quieter rooms, and allowing for extra time given that her processing speed index on the WISC was low average while everything else was high 90s worked quite well for her.  She was a 'simple fix' which is why I wouldn't really deem her to have SN. 

 

With dd10, on the other hand, like you say, it has been difficult to ascertain what she needs let alone try to find a way to meet those needs.  We've found, especially with a 2e kid, it is all too easy for the schools to just assume that she needs nothing b/c she is never below grade level and to also provide no GT services b/c she isn't consistently a high achiever, which is what our GT program seems to serve.

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