Would this bother you? (Field Trip) - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 38 Old 06-01-2011, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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My DS's class (6th) was the only one in his school (K-8) that didn't get to go on a field trip this year (private school, each grade is 1 classroom).  His teacher must have received multiple complaints about it because she sent out an email to the parents saying this:

 

Dear Sixth Grade Families and Students,

A number of parents have contacted me asking whether the students
will be going on a field trip.

Originally, I planned to take the students to the museum

for a guided tour.  The cost would have been more than $500
for the bus and tour, not including lunch or any other activities.
Rather than presume that families would want to pay more than $20 per
student, we have found a sponsor to pay for an afternoon of bowling
at the local bowling lanes.  This was to be a surprise for the
students.

The facility will be open only for us (our 6th grade class), from 11-
1 PM.  We will be leaving school to go bowling and eat
pizza instead of afternoon classes! The games, the shoes, pizza, and
beverages will be provided for us, and students will be able to win
prizes for beating my bowling scores.

 

Something rubs me the wrong way in this email.  It's a private school and trust me we pay a good deal of money so why wouldn't she presume that we would rather our kids take an education field trip that ties along to their studies than a free trip to a bowling alley?  Why couldn't they go to the museum without the guided tour if they wanted to save money?

 

I feel like their class was jipped out of what could have been a great learning experience.  I also feel like this was a last minute cop-out because she failed to arrange a field trip earlier (the field trip is 2 days before the last day of school).  It really annoys me.  DS will continue to have this teacher for the next 2 years so I don't want to fire back an angry email to her.  Plus, I catch the vibe from her that she isn't particularly fond of my DS anyway as she has vented to me about her frustrations with him being spacey.  I don't want to give him an even bigger target on his back.

 

Any thoughts? 


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#2 of 38 Old 06-01-2011, 08:47 AM
 
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I'm on the other side of this.  My 3rd grader was supposed to go on a 2 day field trip to another state.  The parents weren't given any input on this.  His teacher thought it was a wonderful idea and couldn't be convinced otherwise and the schoolboard backed him up. 

 

I guess it boils down to the fact the field trips are up to the school, not the parents.  If you open it up to the parents, there will be some that don't want to pay the money for the museum trip. 

 

If it really bothers you, ask the principal if maybe next year, he/she can encourage the teacher to take them on an educational field trip instead of a fun one.

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#3 of 38 Old 06-01-2011, 09:07 AM
 
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My child attends a very $$ private school but that does not translates to the fact all the families have plenty of disposable income and/or are wealthy. Frankly nothing aggravates me more than hearing "well she sends her kids to private school so she can afford it" Our school is *very* sensitive to needs of all the students and there is often discussions about how to make sure that all events are open to all families. If a field trip or event is deemed too expensive it either doesn't happen or the PA and/or the school will make funds available to cover the cost by offering discounted/free tickets for families in need. 

 

That said she could have sent an email to all the families at the start of the year outlining her idea for the field trip and the cost per family. Some classes are wealthier than the others and maybe your class would have been ok. She could have met with schools PA about the availability of hardship exceptions. Coulda, woulda, shoulda- its all too late now. If you are that upset communicate your disappointment to the head of the school and see what is on the agenda for next year. Be proactive.

 

Personally my son would have LOVED an afternoon of bowling and pizza.  He gets tons of educational experiences What a fun way to end the school year and kick off summer than a party with his friends!


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#4 of 38 Old 06-01-2011, 09:24 AM
 
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I would be OK with the bowling field trip BUT I would want an educational one too....

 

 $20 per child is a bit much, but honestly--- many many schools fundraise, PTO/PTA, class raises money, school picks up some of the tab, parents volunteer to drive (instead of bus), etc....so the price could/should have been discussed. But be aware that most private schools have kiddos on scholarships and 20$ (per child, many have multiple kids) a field trip could be a hardship.

 

I would politely suggest that for next year that you would like to be on the committee that helps plan/organize field trips (ours is the PTA) in coordination with teachers. That way you can make sure that it is financially feasible and educational.

 

Bowling is fun and a good way to end the year, but a field trip with some relevance to the curriculum would be beneficial (and not at the end of the year--- students can journal, write, and do a lot of post-field trip activities that are very educational and make the field trip even more meaningful).

 

 

My guess would be that the bowling alley owner (or sponsor) is either a former alumni of the school, a parent or relative of a student at the school, or somehow supports the school. So it is a nice gesture and lots of local businesses like to 'giveaway' experiences to local kids. Enjoy it! Connections to the community are also powerful (even if not educational).

 

 

If you dont like the teacher-- possibly ask for a better personality match for your DS next year. It may be be a better fit for everyone.

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#5 of 38 Old 06-01-2011, 09:27 AM
 
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My kids go to a private school and some of the families are VERY pressed to make tuition. A couple of families that used to pay for the school are now on scholarship, and there isn't any more scholarship money so a few families have had to withdraw. There is also a field trip scholarship fund that helps pay for kids to participate on extras that their family cannot currently afford.

 

I think your assumption that everyone can shell out money for things is off, even in a private school.

 

My advice -- accept the school experience as a whole and don't get too hung up on any one thing. If, overall, your child has had a good year and learned a lot, an afternoon of bowling is fine. If, overall, your child didn't get much of school this year, an afternoon at the museum wouldn't fix it.

 


 


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#6 of 38 Old 06-01-2011, 09:47 AM
 
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My son attends a charter. Field trips are funded mostly by school-wide and grade fundraisers. Ds' grade (two classes) had a dinner & a movie night (spaghetti and meatballs, salad, dessert, drinks) that funded the bus for the last two field trips (the Zoo and a park/movie day during state testing for the older grades). The children provided their own lunch.

 

 

 


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#7 of 38 Old 06-01-2011, 10:30 AM
 
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That seems strange to me. I feel VERY hard pressed for money. I go without even very standard things - I have 4 pair of underwear, all at least 10 years old; I don't buy deodorant because of the cost, I ran out of my favorite face scrubber years ago and just go without instead of spending $3.99 for a bottle. But I would be ok sending $20 for ONE field trip to a museum. And, yeah, it didn't have to be guided, maybe it could have been cheaper then. Or maybe parents could have volunteered to drive - my private school (when I was a kid) climbed a mountain every year and a few parent volunteers plus the teachers and headmaster all drove us, we didn't charter a bus. There are a lot of options to make it cheaper. Bowling sounds fine but not as a replacement for a field trip - it's not a field trip, it's just a year end celebration.


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#8 of 38 Old 06-01-2011, 01:31 PM
 
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I agree with seeing the bowling as an end of the year party rather then a field trip. I see both sides of the issue, we also attend a small private school. I would gladly send $20.00 for a trip, and the school has a limited number of funds for some students to attend, but what I have seen is that not every family can pull together the cash or even apply for the funds through the school. We (as in my family) ended up paying for other students this year on various trips because they would just show up with no money and it was either someone pay for them or the teacher pay out of her very limited personal pocketbook. I won't do it next year but I also couldn't let a teacher's whose DH had lost his job pay for kids that were not hers.

 

Since it is the very end of year, obviously this school year is written off as far as class trips are concerned but I would mention it to who ever needs to know that hopefully next year this will not happen again. 


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#9 of 38 Old 06-01-2011, 01:42 PM
 
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Bowling was a field trip at both the public school my kids went to and the private one they go to now, but it was handled differently.

In the public school, it was a pe field trip for 5th grade. The pe teacher taught the basic rules of the game, how to score, ect and then they went and played. There was no cost to parents.


In the private school, it was added on to a service project on an optional field trip for middle schoolers. The kids who wanted to spent a couple of hours doing a clean up at a local park, ate packed lunches, and then stopped the bowling alley long enough to play a couple of games. Parents sent money to cover expense. There were other thing going on at the school that day for kids who didn't want to go.

As far as it not bring a big deal for the money, at a private school parents are already spending thousands of dollars per year per child. I'm guessing that you comments don't take take into account the constant flow of money for school-- fundraisers, yearbooks, photos, other field trips etc. and parents with more than one child double or triple the amounts.

25 for a field trip means 50 for my family, on top of tuition, braces, and everything else. It is a big deal for many families, and impossible for others.

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#10 of 38 Old 06-01-2011, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I found out today who the sponsor was.  It was the school!  I wish they could have used that money towards an educational field trip, but I guess that is pointless now since they've already gone on it. 

 

As far as the money goes, I get it.  $20 can be a lot for some families.  Trust me, we're not rich.  My other children do not go to this school because I can't afford to send them all there.  Our other school has a fund for families that can't afford field trips and as PTO president I am in charge of it.  The private school does not and I will suggest they come up with one in the future to avoid problems like this.

 

I think what bothers me more than anything is that the parents were kept in the dark until a few days before the bowling party.  We should have been asked for input.  At least we would know that she actually had planned out this museum trip.  My DD's school is going to this museum for a field trip on Friday and it wasn't nearly the same cost as DS's teacher had said it would have been.  So something just isn't adding up to me.  I think I'll just bring it up to the principal when I see her next.


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#11 of 38 Old 06-01-2011, 04:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuburbanHippie View Post

I think what bothers me more than anything is that the parents were kept in the dark until a few days before the bowling party.  We should have been asked for input.  At least we would know that she actually had planned out this museum trip. 


The way they worded it was odd. They worded it as if the parents (or at least some of the parents) knew about the museum trip, and that the parents felt it was too much money.

 

I would ask about the cost per child. Some museums are expensive per person, but practically free to large school groups. Because my kids' school is small and field trips are optional, some of them are quite small in number and end paying the private entry fee rather than the school fee, making field trips more expensive per student than they are for a large school.

 


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#12 of 38 Old 06-01-2011, 05:19 PM
 
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The cost per child/per school is going to vary.  The costs vary depending on what each school chooses to do at the museum, you mentioned guided tour for one child.  The number of kids going could get you a discount.  Transportation costs vary widely as well (does the district transport, can they use a van, will parents drive, do they need to charter a bus).  Some schools cover the cost of chaperons, some roll that cost into each kids fee, some make the parent chaperons pay.  Lunch is another variable, sometimes lunch is provided, sometimes the kids all bring a sack lunch, other times they are back at school in time for a late lunch.   Some schools qualify for 'scholarships' from places to help with the costs.  This happens with Title 1 schools many times.

 

So one schools $20 field trip can be another schools $0-5 field trip very easily.


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#13 of 38 Old 06-02-2011, 11:55 AM
 
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My kids went on tons of fieldtrips in elementary school. They were sponsored by the PTA and so usually free and educational. I think I've only paid for 3 trips... 300 for a full week of 6th grade camp and 15 dollars for a special trip on a science vessel and 10 dollars for a mining fieldtrip an hour away. However, I'm all for "experiences" too. Bowling is a fun experience that not all kids would have. I might be annoyed if it were the ONLY trip or if it were the first trip of the year. However, schools almost out and it's a fun way to end the year. I wouldn't have issue with it.


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#14 of 38 Old 06-02-2011, 12:27 PM
 
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OP, I would be and have been annoyed and disappointed if my kid didn't go on a single field trip, except for a bowling trip seemingly thrown together at the last minute. 

 

I think field trips are really important.  They're fun, a change of pace and make school bearable.  It's a serious downer when kids spend 180 days in school and don't go anywhere else to see something different. 

 

This happened a few times with my kids' teachers.  Got to May and realized they hadn't gone anywhere.   I finally learned my lesson and when ds was in 4th grade I asked his teacher if she was planning any field trips that year and she just shrugged, said No.  So another mom and I got together and made some suggestions to the teacher, did all the research and leg work.  We found an educational, fun place to go with group rates, got a donation from the PTA, which made it so we asked parents for only $5 per child.  We spent the day at a historical park and had a blast.  And all the teacher needed to do was fill out a couple forms to hand to the principle. 

 

 


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#15 of 38 Old 06-02-2011, 06:46 PM
 
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My daughters go to a small private school and while my oldest has gone on several educational field trips this year, my middle daughter's class has not gone on a single one, except for school wide skiing that is part of their pe program. Every other class in the school has gone on several field trips throughout the year, with the exception of the 2/3 class. It is extremely frustrating to me, but we are not returning to the school next year, so I feel like I can't really comment on it at this point, with only a week of school left.


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#16 of 38 Old 06-02-2011, 09:23 PM
 
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I would be annoyed that other classes went on field trips while your sons class did not.  This  makes it seem like cost is not the real issue  but an excuse.

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#17 of 38 Old 06-02-2011, 11:59 PM
 
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I wouldn't be bothered, but that is because I have known several teachers who have had classes they just wouldn't ever take on a field trip and I have been with one class I truly regretted taking.  I think think fun field trips to celebrate a year that has been done well is a great idea.  I can't remember most of the learning that took place during my field trips as a child so if given the choice between my child getting an educational one to forget or a fun one to remembe I would choose the fun one.  School should sometimes be fun.

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#18 of 38 Old 06-03-2011, 06:59 AM
 
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This isn't something I'd be annoyed over.  While I'd prefer the museum field trip over the bowling alley, I also think the teachers are in a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation with this kind of thing.

 

I'd be happy to pay the $20.  But I'll bet there are lots of parents who would not and who would complain about it.  Many folks here have suggested fundraising to pay for the trip.  I hate fundraising with a passion and refuse to do any part of it.  I'm happy to write a check to cover the costs of my children participating in activities, but I will not fundraise, period.

 

We use public schools.  My dd takes Spanish.  The kids who take French had an overnight field trip to Montreal this year.  The kids who took Russian had an overnight field trip to NYC to visit some museums with Russian exhibits.  The kids who took Spanish had no field trips.  That's life and I'm not getting worked up about it, but I don't put much stock in worrying about what's "fair."  My dd is a musician and she got to go on a couple of field trips involving performance, but also a lot of fun.  I don't worry that the non-musician kids missed out.

 

I'm also getting a little bit jaded about the educational value of class field trips to museums.  I've been a chaperon for a few of them in recent years and it's depressing.  Three quarters of the kids circle around the museum with their noses buried in their cell phones and pay zero attention to the museum.  They might as well be bowling as they'd scarcely notice the difference.

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Quote:
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I'm also getting a little bit jaded about the educational value of class field trips to museums.  I've been a chaperon for a few of them in recent years and it's depressing.  Three quarters of the kids circle around the museum with their noses buried in their cell phones and pay zero attention to the museum.  They might as well be bowling as they'd scarcely notice the difference.



Yes, I agree. You can take a kid to a museum. You can't force them to engage. After a family trip to D.C. one year over spring break, we decided not to send DD on the 8th grade D.C. trip the following year. Yes, it was partly because we were just there and she had amazing tour opportunities she wouldn't come close to at school but it was also because those kids where just flying through the museum to the snack bar most of the time lol. Sure, looks like they were having fun but I didn't see hardly any really getting the museum experience. I'm not saying the D.C. trip is without value or that there won't be some kids who really get something out of it, only that "educational trips" are only educational if they are truely engaging. Unfortunately, they aren't all and they might get more value from a trip that makes them want to participate.

 

Usually, in our schools, these sorts of trips are rewards for kids who are on honor roll or kids who worked the parking patrol all year.

 


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We use public schools.  My dd takes Spanish.  The kids who take French had an overnight field trip to Montreal this year.  The kids who took Russian had an overnight field trip to NYC to visit some museums with Russian exhibits.  The kids who took Spanish had no field trips.  That's life and I'm not getting worked up about it, but I don't put much stock in worrying about what's "fair."  My dd is a musician and she got to go on a couple of field trips involving performance, but also a lot of fun.  I don't worry that the non-musician kids missed out.

 

 


I had something similar in high school: drama went to the Stratford festival, Music went to Edmonton, and Art (my class) went one hour away.

 

I was ticked off as a student and felt less valued.  

 

I know adults do not always put much stock in fairness but kids often do.

 

 

 

 

 

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#21 of 38 Old 06-03-2011, 09:43 AM
 
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I had something similar in high school: drama went to the Stratford festival, Music went to Edmonton, and Art (my class) went one hour away.

 

I was ticked off as a student and felt less valued.  

 

I know adults do not always put much stock in fairness but kids often do.

 

 

 

 

 



I heard a few words of good natured grousing from my daughter and she moved on.   If she was ticked off, she'd get over it.  Life isn't fair, which I think was the subject of a different thread a while back.  If I seem insensitive about "fairness," I'd be the first to tell you than I am.  Personally, I don't think you do any favor teaching kids that every class is going to be treated equally to every other class because it's not going to work out that way.

 

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#22 of 38 Old 06-03-2011, 09:49 AM
 
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Even though life is not fair, the school should strive for fairness. Why on earth not?

 

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#23 of 38 Old 06-03-2011, 10:12 AM
 
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I had something similar in high school: drama went to the Stratford festival, Music went to Edmonton, and Art (my class) went one hour away.

 

I was ticked off as a student and felt less valued.  

 

I know adults do not always put much stock in fairness but kids often do.

 

 

 

 

 




You felt less values because the person organizing the trip you took planned a trip that was closer to home?

 

In order to have felt valued, you needed to travel a more similar distance? The teachers all meeting and planning trips the same distance rather than base on the value of the trip to their students would seem more fair to you?

 

(just trying to make sure I'm following that)


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#24 of 38 Old 06-03-2011, 11:40 AM
 
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You felt less values because the person organizing the trip you took planned a trip that was closer to home?

 

In order to have felt valued, you needed to travel a more similar distance? The teachers all meeting and planning trips the same distance rather than base on the value of the trip to their students would seem more fair to you?

 

(just trying to make sure I'm following that)


Yes, I'm trying to understand the fairness factor too.  I think it would be unfair if the quality/type of event was substandard compared to the other events.  For instance, others went to major drama/music festivals and the art class went to a hodink gallery the next town over with a lame collection.  Now if the trip consisted of a visit to a respected collection or to see actual professional artists working, then I would say the quality would be pretty even.

 

I can understand, though, that kids would view distance as a barometer.  Perhaps the teachers/parents could have done a better job at explaining the value of the event (not the cost or the distance - but the quality of work being shown/performed).
 

 


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#25 of 38 Old 06-03-2011, 11:58 AM
 
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Not Kathy here, but I know that in 8th grade band I was jealous and disappointed to find out the band at the other middle school went 600 miles to Oregon for a multi-day band competition while our big trip was a one-day trip to the local university's music department.

 

From my adult perspective I know now that a trip like that was pretty expensive (and our little band probably wasn't good enough to compete).

 

Regardless, in the example Kathy gave I can imagine being disappointed and concluding that my art teacher couldn't be bothered to put together a trip. 

 

After being on the parent side of the teacher-student-parent field trip equation for 10 years now, I think this kind of thing would be helped immensely if there was more communication between teachers and parents. 

 

Teacher is over-loaded with work to do, doesn't have time to organize a field trip.  Send out a letter to all the parents, ask if there are a couple of people willing to do some research and organization.  Maybe PTA can donate some money, maybe the Rotary club can.  If you can't ask $20 per student then find a cheaper venue.  If no parent steps forward, fine, at least the teacher tried. 

 

If you don't think the kids will get anything out of a trip to a museum then take them somewhere else, somewhere more engaging.  Or better yet, confiscate the cell phones for the duration of the tour and have them do a scavenger hunt-type questionnaire.

 

I loved all the field trips I went on, every last one of them.  That other students were bored was utterly baffling to me.  Now I think it's sad.

 

Edited to add after reading the above, yes, if after various ideas have been tried and a field trip just isn't going to be possible then just say something.  "Sorry guys, a field trip would be great but this year it's not going to happen because of this, this and this."  As a parent I would appreciate and respect that.

 

 

 

 


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#26 of 38 Old 06-03-2011, 01:02 PM
 
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You felt less values because the person organizing the trip you took planned a trip that was closer to home?

 

In order to have felt valued, you needed to travel a more similar distance? The teachers all meeting and planning trips the same distance rather than base on the value of the trip to their students would seem more fair to you?

 

(just trying to make sure I'm following that)

 

Yes (insert shrug).

 

If this had been a school where multiple far flung trips were regularly available I might not have felt I missed out.  I would have figured I would have caught the next one.  This was not the case.  My school did big trips only in the senior year.  

 

The fact that my peers got to travel, missed school for several days, went on a plane, etc, etc (all BIG deals for a lower middle class kid from the sticks) was relevant to me.  I also interpreted it as my school valued drama and music more than art.  This may have not been the case  (it might have come down to I had a uninterested teacher or a teacher with other responsabilities) - but all the money and thought that went into planning their trips while mine was pretty lame did sting.  I think the school should have stepped in and tried to ensure equitable access to opportunity.  It might have even been acceptable if students knew at the beginning of the year that  class X involved a big trip but class Y  did not.  People could have at least have made an informed choice.  It did not go down that way.

 

Dh had something similar happen, and it did not leave him with fuzzy feelings, either.  

 

edited to add:  My kids going bowling over a day trip to a museum would not bug me.  They would probably enjoy it more, lol.  It is not very educational, though, and I can see that being a concern for some people.

 

 

 

 


 

 

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#27 of 38 Old 06-03-2011, 01:39 PM
 
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I also interpreted it as my school valued drama and music more than art.  This may have not been the case  (it might have come down to I had a uninterested teacher or a teacher with other responsabilities) - but all the money and thought that went into planning their trips while mine was pretty lame did sting.

 


Did the school pay for the trips?

 

That would be different from here. Here, parents either pay for long trips or the kids raise the money for them.

 

I can see why the school paying a lot of money for kids in one activity could cause one to feel devalued.

 

At our school, there are lots of field trips, both large and small, and we parents write lots of checks.

 

I don't see a link between the value of the trip to the students and the distance and cost. One of my DDs field trips this year was with her spanish class to an ice cream place that is owned and operated by latinos. They got to order and pay in Spanish. It was great fun, though is was about 15 minutes from the school cost less than $5.00

 

There was also a 2 week trip to several national parks that neither of my kids went on. I would be ticked if the school had paid for the long trip and all my kid got was an ice cream cone!


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#28 of 38 Old 06-03-2011, 02:55 PM
 
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I am not sure how it was paid for.

 

I think parents paid part and the school fund raised the rest.

 

I like the way the local high school does it.  They have about 1 big trip  year, and anyone who can afford it and wants to go, goes.  

 

The way my school did it made the opportunity available for some kids but not others.  As stated above, this wasn't a situation where you knew you were missing out now but would get a big trip later.  

 

I don't think a nearby trip has less value - but I do think more planning, thought, money etc went into the other trips and to me (as a teen)  it seemed like they might have been doing it because they valued drama and music more than art.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#29 of 38 Old 06-03-2011, 04:18 PM
 
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I don't think a nearby trip has less value - but I do think more planning, thought, money etc went into the other trips and to me (as a teen)  it seemed like they might have been doing it because they valued drama and music more than art.  

 

yes, more time, planning, and thought.

 

But I wonder if that means that the school valued one more than the other, or just that those teachers enjoyed planning and going on long trips more than the other teacher.

 

The long trips at our school are planned by the younger teachers, and the older teachers tend to plan shorter, easier things, like ice cream or seeing a play. The field trips are all open to all students who meet the requirements for that trips, which are usually age, behavior, or physical ability related.
 

 


but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

I am not sure how it was paid for.

 

I think parents paid part and the school fund raised the rest.

 

I like the way the local high school does it.  They have about 1 big trip  year, and anyone who can afford it and wants to go, goes.  

 

The way my school did it made the opportunity available for some kids but not others.  As stated above, this wasn't a situation where you knew you were missing out now but would get a big trip later.  

 

I don't think a nearby trip has less value - but I do think more planning, thought, money etc went into the other trips and to me (as a teen)  it seemed like they might have been doing it because they valued drama and music more than art.  

 

 

 

 

 

 


Okay, not trying to be argumentative but speaking as a person who has an MFA in visual arts and have worked in the arts for a number of years.  Visual art is tough to glamorize.  As a teen I had the opportunity to come to NYC and go to museums and galleries and my mind was blown in the process.  It is a hot bed for art, avant garde and otherwise.  I grew up in a very backwoods area of the country and the opportunity to see modern art and otherwise was a HUGE opportunity for me.  I don't think I would have been impacted as much if I had gone, say, to Washington DC (where while it has a good collection of stuff, at the time it wasn't a place where a youth could be impressed beyond the historical).  Not saying that historical is a bad thing (I value it greatly) but to feel visual art in a modern context (in my opinion and on the same level as live music and live drama), one has to feel the vibrancy of what is being created in addition to the historical.  

 

If I were an art teacher (and I've been so on the college level), I'd find it a challenge to create an event that would appeal to all and provide excitement.  I get excited about stuff, but I'm weird and I usually go looking for stuff that interests me.  I think music and performance is more equitable.  It appeals to a wide range of people and interests and I just think it is easier to make those venues exciting.  As an artist myself, viewing art is most enjoyable as a loner type of thing because I seek what I like.  

 


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