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#181 of 221 Old 07-11-2011, 09:33 PM
 
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You're missing the point.  What percentage of homeschooled kids drop-out?  What percentage of homeschool kids fail the literacy tests?  How many meet math and reading standards? What are the statistics in the homeschool system?  Until homeschoolers can provide similar statistics, it makes no sense to hold up test scores and drop-out rates and say "see how bad our public schools are?"


But Ameliabedelia's post didnt' do that. I was responding to your assertion that we homeschoolers paint schools with the same broad brush. I don't think that is true. However, the system itself assesses itself as a system. How is it any less valid for homeschoolers to talk about schools as a system when the system itself does that?


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#182 of 221 Old 07-11-2011, 09:35 PM
 
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You refuse to answer my question.  Which speaks volumes, actually.

LOL What question?

I told you why I was interested in this discussion. What other question have you asked me?



 

 


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#183 of 221 Old 07-11-2011, 10:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Karenwith4 View Post

you continue to assert that your experience or perceptions of homeschooling are a universal truth.

Hate to break it to you but it's not the case.

.

 


The only thing I've said is nearly universal is that most homeschooling moms are trying to do more than they actually can reasonably do. Most will admit that -- when they are speaking only to other homeschoolers (and no body need take my word for it, just read through the homeschooling support board here. Summer isn't the best time to see -- go back to fall and winter. it happens every year)

 

The whole "this is so easy for me and for all other homeschoolers, the problem was you" is just the BS that homeschoolers put up to outsiders. And I'm now very happily an outsider.

 

The odd thing is, I haven't said homeschooling is a bad thing, or that all kids should be in school. Quite the opposite. I've said there are pros and cons to all educational options, but that the homeschooling community can't bring themselves to be honest about the cons of homeschooling.

 

And you all are proving that  VERY well. The need to show up on a Learning at Home School and repeatedly state that the are no cons to homeschooling is fairly transparent. Seriously, you honestly except ANYONE to believe there are no cons? You might disagree about the what the cons are, or feel the benefits far outweigh the cons for your kids, but to say there are not cons at all is .....not believable. Everything in life has pros and cons.

 

I cannot fathom what in the world some of you are doing showing up on a learning at school board insulting a me, a mother whose child has autism.  And my crime?
Saying that homeschooling wasn't the best for MY child, and getting her the education she deserves.  

 

Frankly, some of you really need to sit down and figure out what happened to you make you like this. You've become so hung on your method of education that you are insulting me for doing something else for my special needs child. For being open about our experience.

 

Is the goal just to be sh*tty enough to anyone who has had a bad experience that you get them to shut up?  

 

I never said YOU shouldn't be homeschooling. I said it wasn't what was best for MY child at this time.

 

 

 

 

 

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#184 of 221 Old 07-11-2011, 10:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Karenwith4 View Post
But Ameliabedelia's post didnt' do that. I was responding to your assertion that we homeschoolers paint schools with the same broad brush. I don't think that is true. However, the system itself assesses itself as a system. How is it any less valid for homeschoolers to talk about schools as a system when the system itself does that?

 

Because homeschoolers have no proof that homeschooling provides better results as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Karenwith4 View Post

LOL What question?

I told you why I was interested in this discussion. What other question have you asked me?

 


Why you are in the Learning at School forum when there is an identical, and active, discussion in the Learning at Home forum?

 

Now, here's my reservations about homeschooling:  I think homeschooling is fine during the primary years, but I see more advantages to attending a public school in the secondary years.  I have reservations about whether a parent can teach an understanding of advanced subject matter that they themselves have not studied in depth.  Sure, teaching facts out of a book is cool beans, but an actual understanding.  Biology teachers have a degree in biology.  English teachers have a degree in English.  Spanish teachers have a degree in Spanish, or are native speakers.  And so on.  Unless a parent has about 7 different degrees, I don't see how teaching advanced subject matter would really work as well as it does in a decent public school.

 

Over 40% of public school teachers hold a masters degree (9.5% of the general American population has a masters degree.)  A statistical 100% of public school teachers have a bachelors degree (27% of the general American population does).  They are among the most educated workforce in this country.  About 25% of "homeschooling parents" have a bachelors degree, and 22% of those have a masters degree (which would be about 5% over-all, no?).  I put "homeschooling parents" in quotes because the study is unclear as to which parent holds the degree, and whether or not it is the parent primarily responsible for the child's education (which I believe is a valid concern, because the vast majority of homeschoolers are also stay-at-home parents, so it is likely that the working parent is able to support that choice with the help of a degree).  I, personally, am much more comfortable with a professional educator educating my children.

 


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#185 of 221 Old 07-11-2011, 11:26 PM
 
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Because homeschoolers have no proof that homeschooling provides better results as a whole.


Why you are in the Learning at School forum when there is an identical, and active, discussion in the Learning at Home forum?

 

Now, here's my reservations about homeschooling:  I think homeschooling is fine during the primary years, but I see more advantages to attending a public school in the secondary years.  I have reservations about whether a parent can teach an understanding of advanced subject matter that they themselves have not studied in depth.  Sure, teaching facts out of a book is cool beans, but an actual understanding.  Biology teachers have a degree in biology.  English teachers have a degree in English.  Spanish teachers have a degree in Spanish, or are native speakers.  And so on.  Unless a parent has about 7 different degrees, I don't see how teaching advanced subject matter would really work as well as it does in a decent public school.

 

Over 40% of public school teachers hold a masters degree (9.5% of the general American population has a masters degree.)  A statistical 100% of public school teachers have a bachelors degree (27% of the general American population does).  They are among the most educated workforce in this country.  About 25% of "homeschooling parents" have a bachelors degree, and 22% of those have a masters degree (which would be about 5% over-all, no?).  I put "homeschooling parents" in quotes because the study is unclear as to which parent holds the degree, and whether or not it is the parent primarily responsible for the child's education (which I believe is a valid concern, because the vast majority of homeschoolers are also stay-at-home parents, so it is likely that the working parent is able to support that choice with the help of a degree).  I, personally, am much more comfortable with a professional educator educating my children.

 

I'm not going to denegrate teachers. But I know for a fact that many high schools in my area (and I think it is common across the province - don't know why it would be different in the US which seems to have its own share of teacher-supply issues)  have trouble real hiring high school level teachers qualified (ie w relevant degrees) in math and science/tech, french/languages, economics/business. And a Master in Education (which is presumably the bulk the the Masters Degree held by teachers) does nothing to improve their knowledge of the subject area. In Ontario, the bulk of those with Master degrees in education head into adminstration/consultant positions rather than stay in the classroom.

 

With respect to your specific point, it's also quite common for homeschoolers to use outside resources when it comes to learning at the highschool level - online, video, college courses, co-ops taught by specialists etc. I think your concern is valid IF there are no outside resources accessed but most homeschoolers I come in contact with are extremely resourceful in helping to get their kids' educational needs met and so I am not sure how much of a real problem it is.

 

As for why I am here - it's an interesting discussion and I have valid points to contribute - same as you.

 

 


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#186 of 221 Old 07-11-2011, 11:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
 

Sorry about the quote issue - - can't get it to break into  individual quotes - my comments are in italics.
 


 


The only thing I've said is nearly universal is that most homeschooling moms are trying to do more than they actually can reasonably do. Most will admit that -- when they are speaking only to other homeschoolers (and no body need take my word for it, just read through the homeschooling support board here. Summer isn't the best time to see -- go back to fall and winter. it happens every year)

 

Well a couple of threads on a discussion board doesn't equate to MOST in my mind.  And most moms at somepoint admit that they are trying to do more than they can. I just had this exact same conversation with a friend who works part time and both her kids are in school (well not in the summer but you know what I mean hopefully). It goes back to my point that this is a common experience for parenting particularly with young kids or larger families.  It's by no means unique to homeschooling.

 

The whole "this is so easy for me and for all other homeschoolers, the problem was you" is just the BS that homeschoolers put up to outsiders. And I'm now very happily an outsider.

 

The odd thing is, I haven't said homeschooling is a bad thing, or that all kids should be in school. Quite the opposite. I've said there are pros and cons to all educational options, but that the homeschooling community can't bring themselves to be honest about the cons of homeschooling.

 

And you all are proving that  VERY well. The need to show up on a Learning at Home School and repeatedly state that the are no cons to homeschooling is fairly transparent. Seriously, you honestly except ANYONE to believe there are no cons? You might disagree about the what the cons are, or feel the benefits far outweigh the cons for your kids, but to say there are not cons at all is .....not believable. Everything in life has pros and cons.

 

Umm in one of my posts I listed some of the things that could be considered cons for our family.  Loss of my possible full time income being one of them.  But I choose to look at them as opportunities for the most part in part because I don't think publich schooling would offer a very different set of pros/cons - that's just how I see life. Clearly you take a different view.

 

I cannot fathom what in the world some of you are doing showing up on a learning at school board insulting a me, a mother whose child has autism.  And my crime?
Saying that homeschooling wasn't the best for MY child, and getting her the education she deserves.  Frankly, some of you really need to sit down and figure out what happened to you make you like this. You've become so hung on your method of education that you are insulting me for doing something else for my special needs child. For being open about our experience.

 

I never insulted you or your children and have been very careful to disagree with you but not make it personal. In fact I have said repeatedly that I think it is a good thing you have found a place you and they are so pleased with. Can you say the same thing the tone and content of your comments to me or other homeschoolers here whose input you outright dismissed because their children are a year or two younger than yours when you stopped homeschooling?

 

Frankly, some of you really need to sit down and figure out what happened to you make you like this. You've become so hung on your method of education that you are insulting me for doing something else for my special needs child. For being open about our experience.

 

Is the goal just to be sh*tty enough to anyone who has had a bad experience that you get them to shut up?  

Nope I dont' think anyone has told you to shut up. And disagreements about philosophy or offering alternative perspectives isn't being

 

I never said YOU shouldn't be homeschooling. I said it wasn't what was best for MY child at this time.

 

No one has disagreed with you  about what is best for your child. Not one. And no one to my knowledge has said anything detrimental about your choice or your child(ren) or their challenges, has insulted you, or asked you not to share your story.

Linda I get that this is an emotional issue for you. But for some of us, it's just an interesting discussion, one where some of us disagree with the position you take and the assertions you are making, or want to offer a different perspective which you insist on ridiculing or suggesting is unhealthy or dishonest.

I can accept that your experience was valid for you. Why can't you offer the same respect to those who have a different experience?  

 

 

 

 

 

 



 


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#187 of 221 Old 07-11-2011, 11:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Karenwith4 View Post



I'm not going to denegrate teachers. But I know for a fact that many high schools in my area (and I think it is common across the province - don't know why it would be different in the US which seems to have its own share of teacher-supply issues)  have trouble real hiring high school level teachers qualified (ie w relevant degrees) in math and science/tech, french/languages, economics/business. And a Master in Education (which is presumably the bulk the the Masters Degree held by teachers) does nothing to improve their knowledge of the subject area. In Ontario, the bulk of those with Master degrees in education head into adminstration/consultant positions rather than stay in the classroom.

 

With respect to your specific point, it's also quite common for homeschoolers to use outside resources when it comes to learning at the highschool level - online, video, college courses, co-ops taught by specialists etc. I think your concern is valid IF there are no outside resources accessed but most homeschoolers I come in contact with are extremely resourceful in helping to get their kids' educational needs met and so I am not sure how much of a real problem it is.

 

As for why I am here - it's an interesting discussion and I have valid points to contribute - same as you.

 

 



Coming back to add that I just looked up some 2010 Canadian Census data which shows 71% of women and 64% of men ages 25-44 have completed post-secondary education (ie college or university) . My guesss based on stats I have read and my own experience is that most homeschooling families have both parents with post secondary education. I have no idea if that would be true in the US as well and I admit that I live in a university town with a highly educated population but I thought the stats were interesting.

 


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#188 of 221 Old 07-12-2011, 02:11 AM
 
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I'm not going to denegrate teachers. But I know for a fact that many high schools in my area (and I think it is common across the province - don't know why it would be different in the US which seems to have its own share of teacher-supply issues)  have trouble real hiring high school level teachers qualified (ie w relevant degrees) in math and science/tech, french/languages, economics/business. And a Master in Education (which is presumably the bulk the the Masters Degree held by teachers) does nothing to improve their knowledge of the subject area. In Ontario, the bulk of those with Master degrees in education head into adminstration/consultant positions rather than stay in the classroom.

 

With respect to your specific point, it's also quite common for homeschoolers to use outside resources when it comes to learning at the highschool level - online, video, college courses, co-ops taught by specialists etc. I think your concern is valid IF there are no outside resources accessed but most homeschoolers I come in contact with are extremely resourceful in helping to get their kids' educational needs met and so I am not sure how much of a real problem it is.

 

As for why I am here - it's an interesting discussion and I have valid points to contribute - same as you.

 

 


Oh please. I live in Scarborough ON with a high percentage of immigrant kids and some priority neighborhoods with a lot of poverty -and by and large we have great, qualified teachers. I'm sure there are communitites, especially in Northern Ontario, where that is the case but it is hardly like schools in major centers are weeping for lack of teachers.

Our local school offers an international baccalaureate programme with its worldwide standards and curriculum. No issues staffing it or finding kids.

Dropout rates are complex and I think it is a very valid point that homeschool doesn't measure them. If a HS kid gets a GED that is a "success" story.

I agree that homeschool advocates continuing to crash this thread just shows an intolerance for the experience and opinions of other methods of education.

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#189 of 221 Old 07-12-2011, 05:05 AM
 
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As a tutor and homeschool grandma, I was skeptical when my youngest daughter began homeschooling, but I did not think it my place to discourage her from doing what she decided was best for her children.  I believe that mothers are given natural instincts when it comes to their kids.

 

So instead, I got involved in attending events, and helping her.  After seeing first hand what it is all about, I became totally sold on homeschooling.  I now do workshops at homeschool conventions,  write free lesson plans, and provide curriculum for homeschool families. 

 

Here is an article that may help you:  Thinking About Homeschooling; Teachers Are

 

All that being said, home education is not for everyone, but trust your own instincts on that.  Hope this helps.

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#190 of 221 Old 07-12-2011, 07:42 AM
 
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I've been following this thread in learning at home so haven't read through this thread (just skimmed parts of it.) There is research about how well homeschoolers do. I am including something here that I wrote a year or so ago for a friend. At the end are several sites that discuss research about homeschooling.

 

 

Homeschooling isn't hard. AND the way we're doing it, it will only be fun. If you want to follow a curriculum, there are tons of them out there you can buy for next to nothing to super expensive. Most cities have homeschool groups you can join for ideas, support, and social activities. We=ve been on a tour of the miniature horse farm and a regular firestation and the airport firestation. We've been to a print shop, tortilla factory, recycling center etc. And my oldest is only 4.

 

I'm doing a lot of reading about delayed schooling. Many European countries don't start formalized education until 7 and their kids do much better than ours.

 

I recently got into the http://www.sonlight.com books. Their philosophy is that you can sit a child at a desk with a textbook and very little learning will happen or you can cuddle a child on mom or dad's lap on the couch and read an award winning book and lots of learning will happen. They are a religious group so I exclude their religious stuff. I also joined a secular sonlight users group.  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SonlightSecular/?yguid=156716553 They've given me some great links to evolution books.

 

This book addresses how preschool kids learn:

http://www.amazon.com/Einstein-Never-Used-Flash-Cards/dp/1579546951/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1304057852&sr=8-1           

 

Here=s an article about how play will help children get into Harvard:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/12/29/christakis.play.children.learning/index.html

 

This is a great book on the advantages of homeschooling. (It recognizes that schools are also a valid choice for education.):

http://www.amazon.com/Homeschooling-Rediscovered-Socialization-Education-Family/dp/1430308257/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1285964468&sr=1-1

 

Here are a bunch of links that I hope are helpful:

 

Homeschooling and Socialization:

http://www.homefires.com/articles/odd_children.asp

http://learninfreedom.org/socialization.html

http://www.homeschool.com/articles/socialization/default.asp

 

 

Movie about problems with education system:

http://www.racetonowhere.com/

 

Do schools kill creativity? Very entertaining video with some good points to ponder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY

 

Article on why young kids= brains aren=t ready for early reading/writing instruction:

http://www.lilipoh.com/articles/2007/fall2007/teaching_children.aspx

 

Here=s an article that discusses how children who start academics at later ages do better in the long run:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/2752895.stm


Here=s a video on delayed academics in Sweden:

http://www.teachers.tv/videos/sweden-early-years

 

Youtube videos:        

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQQyP9WXKk8

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIOogqa-5GA

 

Unschooling definition:

http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/earl_stevens.html

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling

 

I did a search on Peter Gray on the Psychology Today website and he has lots of interesting looking articles. Here are a couple I read:

 

Math:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201004/kids-learn-math-easily-when-they-control-their-own-learning

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201003/when-less-is-more-the-case-teaching-less-math-in-schools

 

Reading:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201002/children-teach-themselves-read

 

Sudsbury School:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/200808/children-educate-themselves-iv-lessons-sudbury-valley (The closest we have to Sudsbury in Tucson is the Kino Learning Center.)

 

Homeschooling forums (mdc):

learning at home

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/forumdisplay.php?f=50

 

curriculums

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/forumdisplay.php?f=425

 

unschooling

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/forumdisplay.php?f=439

 

Tons of great articles about homeschooling. http://www.besthomeschooling.org/gateway/inted16.html

 

ACT scoresBhomeschooled compared to general test takers:

http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/olderkids/CollegeTests.htm


Some homeschooling research:

 

Home-Education: Rationales, Practices and Outcomes

http://pjrothermel.com/phd/Home.htm

 

Fifteen years later: Home-Educated Canadian Adults

http://www.hslda.ca/cche_research/2009Study.pdf

 

We've Grown Up and We're Okay

http://www.illinoishouse.org/a05.htm

 

Welcome to the National Home Education Research Institute!

http://www.nheri.org/

 

the average home-school test results continue to be 30-plus percentile points higher than their public school counterparts                   

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/30/home-schooling-outstanding-results-national-tests/


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#191 of 221 Old 07-12-2011, 07:43 AM
 
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Here is an article that may help you:  Thinking About Homeschooling; Teachers Are

yeahthat.gif

 

 

most of the HS parents I know were former burned out teachers! I also had two (over 30+ years ago) teacher (public school) who's wives (also former teachers) HS their kids- I  currently know of over a dozen who one spouse is in PS but their children are HS (some never have been in any school)

 

also the OP can check with her state for school stats- while mine does testing (as one of the many requirements of HS) the public school parents can and do opt-out of in-school standardized testing for their children


 

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#192 of 221 Old 07-12-2011, 08:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by SundayCrepes View Post

I've been following this thread in learning at home so haven't read through this thread (just skimmed parts of it.) There is research about how well homeschoolers do. I am including something here that I wrote a year or so ago for a friend. At the end are several sites that discuss research about homeschooling.

 


You really should read this thread.  Those studies have already been effectively de-bunked, as standardized testing is usually voluntary for homeschooled children, and administered by parents, not a third-party administrator.

 

Quote:
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yeahthat.gif

 

 

most of the HS parents I know were former burned out teachers! I also had two (over 30+ years ago) teacher (public school) who's wives (also former teachers) HS their kids- I  currently know of over a dozen who one spouse is in PS but their children are HS (some never have been in any school)

 

also the OP can check with her state for school stats- while mine does testing (as one of the many requirements of HS) the public school parents can and do opt-out of in-school standardized testing for their children


I would be interested to look at state-by-state testing laws for homeschoolers.  It seems that not many require testing, and most of those that do allow the test to be administered at home.  Even those that appear to require testing by a third-party administrator have loopholes that allow homeschool groups to test themselves.


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Oh please. I live in Scarborough ON with a high percentage of immigrant kids and some priority neighborhoods with a lot of poverty -and by and large we have great, qualified teachers. I'm sure there are communitites, especially in Northern Ontario, where that is the case but it is hardly like schools in major centers are weeping for lack of teachers.

Our local school offers an international baccalaureate programme with its worldwide standards and curriculum. No issues staffing it or finding kids.

Dropout rates are complex and I think it is a very valid point that homeschool doesn't measure them. If a HS kid gets a GED that is a "success" story.

I agree that homeschool advocates continuing to crash this thread just shows an intolerance for the experience and opinions of other methods of education.



I agree you may not have issues attracting teachers in Toronto particularly for the IB program. But there are thousands of TLAs issued every year in this province to allow teachers to teach topics for which they don't have the requisite educational background. My BIL taught gr 10 and 11 science for years. He has a phys ed degree. He's an excellent and experienced teacher, which is sort of my point - he doesn't necessarily have to be certified in his subject area to teach it well, because there are resources and support available to him - same as with homeschooling. 

My sister's SIL wants to teach art which was her major. But she can't get transfered because she has a minor in French and so she's a french teacher. The board turns down her request every year to transfer out of core French because there aren't enough French teachers.

 

I wasn't comparing drop out rates for ps with homeschooling. Didn't even imply it. Was just speaking generally about the fact that while its hard to speak of homeschooling as a system because of the variety of approaches, lack of data etc, the school system itself provides tools and data about assessing itself as a system which means that yes we can speak about schooling in general terms for some topics. The dropout rate and EAOQ were just examples of that data. I agree we can't compare homeschooling and public schooling stats with the possible exception of the SATs because there just isn't enough of the right kind of data for that.

 

 

 


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#194 of 221 Old 07-12-2011, 09:03 AM
 
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You really should read this thread.  Those studies have already been effectively de-bunked, as standardized testing is usually voluntary for homeschooled children, and administered by parents, not a third-party administrator.

 


I would be interested to look at state-by-state testing laws for homeschoolers.  It seems that not many require testing, and most of those that do allow the test to be administered at home.  Even those that appear to require testing by a third-party administrator have loopholes that allow homeschool groups to test themselves.



I think that varies by state. Most homeschoolers I know (online) who choose the testing route or are required to do that based on their state's requirements have to use the same standardized tests as the school system and has to be adminstered by a teacher or certified adminstrator. Yes some of those would be homeschooling parents but it doesn't change the test or the testing requirements.

 


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#195 of 221 Old 07-12-2011, 09:30 AM
 
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as I posted in the other thread---- I MUST use the public school system in my state to legally HS

 

I have numerous requirements that I must deal with and I must have approval from the public school, so I have a direct connection with public education system.

 

regarding testing - my state has requirements and in my state, I can use private testing (picking and administering testing- but I am not allowed to test my own child, I must have someone else do it that meets the state requirements and the test must be state approved) or I can use the testing within the public system- if I do private I must pay out of pocket, it is free if I use the public system and my state (they teacher's union pushed for the legislation!) has the ALL testing counts for the district regardless that the PS does not "teach" the HS child, they get the right to count the test scours as their own---really fair


 

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OP here again.  I think there are so many interesting thoughts and perspectives coming through this thread.  It is unfortunate that it is taking such an emotional and impolite turn, however.  I do hope folks can keep the info flowing.

 

re: Homeschooling parents joining the discussion.  I really don't think that discussions are limited to only one group or another.  That is part of the whole problem in my opinion. If homeschoolers stick only to the Schooling at Home forum and traditional schoolers only read and contribute the learning at school forum we have lost a lot of the value of this community.  Hearing only from one perspective is exactly what I want to avoid.  This thread has gotten a lot more action than the one in the other forum, so it isn't surprising that this is where people are coming to add in their thoughts.  Personally I welcome the discussion.

 

re: the personal situations of individual families.  While of course those experience are very real and very valid, they can't be universally applicable.  Someone homeschooling because they are religious and want to shield their child from other viewpoints is going to have a very different story than someone homeschooling because their kid is gifted and can't get gifted education at their school. Likewise someone schooling their ADHD child in a school setting specifically tailored to that kid will have a different schooling experience than someone with a child in a poorly performing and under-funded school.  None of those (or any) specific situation will be able to speak to the larger issue.

 

There are some universal facts regarding both homeschooling and traditional schooling, as far as I can tell.  I am framing these all neutrally, and am not trying to suggest any pro or con to any of these facts:

 

1) Homeschooled children will spend more time with parent(s) than a child attending school.

2) Homeschooled children will spend more time with siblings than a child attending school.

3) Homeschooled children will often (though not always) receive their teaching through their parent.  Schooled children will often (though not always) receive their teaching through a teacher.

4) Homeschooled children will learn in an environment with fewer peers and schooled children will learn in an environment with a larger number of peers.

5) Homeschooled children will often learn in a multi-aged environment (assuming siblings are present), schooled children will often learn in an environment with others their same age.

6) Homeschooled children will have curriculum chosen by their parent(s), schooled children will have curriculum chosen by their school or district.

 

I am sure I am missing some, but you get the idea.  To me, ideally, there would be information available about how each of those facts plays out in terms of educational policy and research.  I.e. is there any research to show that children do better or worse in multi-aged environments.  Or is there research to show that one particular curriculum is better at conveying information or teaching thinking skills than another, and is that curriculum available at schools or only through homeschooling, etc.

 

I am learning that there is very little research on any of these things, unfortunately. But ideally one would be able to look at data about those facts and help them make an informed decision.

 

 

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to the OP---in the end-----HS or other, you as the parent are responsible for what does and doesn't happen, some blame others but the final choice (good - bad -  indifferent - what ever the outcome) the parent is responsible, the parent makes the choice - IMO

 

 

really look into your state requirements to better understand what is required what ever school-ing you do, many PS (and for the matter many NON-HS) parents really don't know what their state requirements and rights are------best of luck


 

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I can post on both I have ds 11 and ds 5 homeschool and  dd 16 and dd 14 public school.

 

There are pros and cons to both.

I say give your child a choice to choose hs or ps when they are old enough. This would also give you an idea of what really fits your family.

 

I would say our biggest negative is finances- I don't work the hours I would work if the boys were in ps. I really value my time with my younger ones thoughsmile.gif

 

 

Take breaks often for the whole family..yourself, kids, hubby, marriage. I don't think homeschooling gives you health problems..failure to take care of yourself does and this can happen to anyone. 

ASK FOR HELP WHENEVER SOMEONE IS AVAILABLE- THIS IS IMPORTANT AS A MOTHER BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING..ESPECIALLY HELPS WITH FEELING BURNOUT AND PREVENTING RESENTMENT

 

As for the education part- It is what you make it- You can hs or ps and your children will probably turn out fine. You can decide whether to enhance it either way as a parent. It depends on how much time and work you want to put into it. 

 

 

 

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#199 of 221 Old 07-12-2011, 10:59 AM
 
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Research and other peoples' stories are important.  But you know your child best and you should trust yourself about what to do & when.  I have done both and both were very educational... and that is the point of education.  

 

I personally think it's great to spend a couple of years homeschooling if you can.  It's a bonding experience and it's fun.  But group schooling also teaches your child how to navigate group dynamics and build a significant mentor relationship with a different adult.  You can't teach that from home.  I think homeschooling a few years and group schooling a few years is the ideal for every child.... depending, of course, on a quality local school and a thriving at-home Mom :)

 

There is no "right" choice..... just a good one.... or maybe two good ones. :)

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Of course you're threatened, which is why you're on the Learning at School forum, responding in a thread where the OP stated that she has already asked questions in the Learning at Home board and has decided to homeschool.  Why else be here?

 



Seriously?

 

I'm here, because the discussion interests me. I argue aspects of it, because I disagree with what's being said, or have ea different perspective on it. To suggest that the only reason we (homeschooling parents) could possibly be here is because we're "threatened" is baseless and insulting. (FWIW, I have my moments of doubt about homeschooling, for various reasons - but not as many moments of doubt as I had about ds1's public school experience. YMMV, and that's okay, yk?)


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I think homeschooling a few years and group schooling a few years is the ideal for every child.... depending, of course, on a quality local school and a thriving at-home Mom :)

 


I disagree that there is an ideal for every child. Group schooling devastated me in almost every possible way. I've seen it have an extremely detrimental effect on other people, as well. I'm sure there are also kids who wouldn't do well in a homeschool environment (eg. special needs situations, such as Linda on the Move's child, or an extremely social child being homeschooled in an isolated situation where a lot of "face time" with other people just isn't possible, etc.). I suspect you have a point that many would thrive with either or both...but that doesn't mean a mix is "ideal" for every child.

 

Oh - and not every child forms a mentor relationship at school. DS1 has several. I had none. Actually, once I got out of school, it took me years to get over my knee-jerk emotional reaction of "teachers are evil control freaks"....and I'm still amazed that I now actually have personal friends who are teachers. The only lesson I learned about navigating group dynamics was that groups are, in and of themselves, hostile territory. I never did figure out any of the social rules that one supposedly learns in group schooling.


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#202 of 221 Old 07-12-2011, 11:58 AM
 
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Storm Bride,

 

Perhaps it was the wrong group schooling situation or the wrong time?  I said  "ideal depending on a quality school environment and a thriving at-home Mom".

 

My daughter was given a "wrong" (extremely rigid personality type) teacher for her in the 2nd grade. I went to the school and asked them to change the situation.  They did, but I was prepared to homeschool if they didn't.  She was assigned the same teacher in the 6th grade, but at that time my daughter was ready to deal with a difficult relationship.  Both she and the teacher learned a lot that year and there was growth on both sides.  My daughter now has an easy time with difficult people and it is a skill she will always use.  However, it would have been devastating for my daughter to have that teacher in the second grade.

 

The reason I say ideal is that doing both provides the broadest experience possible.  But both home and school must be quality environments for this to be true.  This is where Mom must use her Mommy Radar to make the best choice....

 

 

 

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Storm Bride,

 

Perhaps it was the wrong group schooling situation or the wrong time?  I said  "ideal depending on a quality school environment and a thriving at-home Mom".

 

Many other kids seemed to do very well there, so I don't think it was the environment so much. I guess I thrived for a whle - but, oddly enough, it was in the very early years - the time period when many feel homeschooling would be/is the most beneficial. And, I don't know if my high school was a "quality" school or not, but it wasn't in bad shape, or suffering from lack of funding, or anything like that. Lots of kids there did really well.

 

My daughter was given a "wrong" (extremely rigid personality type) teacher for her in the 2nd grade. I went to the school and asked them to change the situation.  They did, but I was prepared to homeschool if they didn't.  She was assigned the same teacher in the 6th grade, but at that time my daughter was ready to deal with a difficult relationship.  Both she and the teacher learned a lot that year and there was growth on both sides.  My daughter now has an easy time with difficult people and it is a skill she will always use.  However, it would have been devastating for my daughter to have that teacher in the second grade.

 

That works when it's about a single personality conflict, and when a change is possible (I'd have much preferred a different grade 7 teacher for ds1, for example - but she was the only one teaching that grade at that school). It doesn't work when it's just about universal. I can remember a handful of teachers that I could stand, and three that I kind of liked - but I wouldn't call any of them "mentors", in any way. They simply managed to create a class environment that didn't completely suck. (And, two of the three were really unpopular with the rest of the students. Go figure.)

 

The reason I say ideal is that doing both provides the broadest experience possible.  But both home and school must be quality environments for this to be true.  This is where Mom must use her Mommy Radar to make the best choice....

 

Maybe, for some kids, that broad experience simply isn't a good thing? My mom's choices were limited, in any case, but the public schools here were all pretty much the same, and moving from one to another wouldn't have mattered. It was the whole environment that didn't work for me. In similar fashion, I worked in an office for years, and I can't stand big companies, either. I'd gouge my own eyes out if I had to work for one for an extended period of time. Some environments simply don't work for some people.

 



 


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There were a lot of links in SundayCrepes post, but this one seems particularly interesting:

 

http://www.hslda.ca/cche_research/2009Study.pdf

 

 

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#205 of 221 Old 07-12-2011, 01:59 PM
 
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Seriously?

 

I'm here, because the discussion interests me. I argue aspects of it, because I disagree with what's being said, or have ea different perspective on it. To suggest that the only reason we (homeschooling parents) could possibly be here is because we're "threatened" is baseless and insulting. (FWIW, I have my moments of doubt about homeschooling, for various reasons - but not as many moments of doubt as I had about ds1's public school experience. YMMV, and that's okay, yk?)


I don't think it's too much to ask that psers have a safe place to discuss how they arrived at the decision to public school, and the issues and concerns they have relevant to their own public school experience, whether they have tried homeschooling in the past or not.  Really, the last thing we need is avid homeschoolers popping up here and implying that failure in homeschooling is a parental problem, or due to a faulty parent-child dynamic, or simply not trying hard enough or for long enough.  We don't need avid homeschoolers here telling us about "studies" that show that hsed kids outperform ps kids on testing.

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There were a lot of links in SundayCrepes post, but this one seems particularly interesting:

 

http://www.hslda.ca/cche_research/2009Study.pdf

 

 


It's an interesting read.  But it is faulty through and through.  It was funded by a special-interest homeschooling group.  And the results are very strange, or at least the way they are interpreted is very strange.  From the responses of a sample of 226 previously homeschooled adults from 121 families, they feel that they can make a broad statement like, "Overall, young adults who had been homeschooled were better educated than similarly aged Canadians."  From a sample of 121 families?  Wow.

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#206 of 221 Old 07-12-2011, 02:12 PM
 
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Alas.... it must be so hard for Moms who don't think their kids are thriving at school.... but who don't have many choices.  

 

Small schools have the strange situation where each specific class can vary wildly.  A "good" class can be a supportive and fun group learning experience.  A "bad" class can be petty, mean and trivial.  We would move and start over somewhere to get our kids into a good school environment, but I do think experiencing the group experience is an educational experience in itself.  For all my kids, homeschooling has been amazing, but attending school has also been very important in their development. (Ages 15, 11, 7, 3).  I just feel so blessed that I have had the option to do both.  Choice is a wonderful thing....

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Alas.... it must be so hard for Moms who don't think their kids are thriving at school.... but who don't have many choices.  

 

Small schools have the strange situation where each specific class can vary wildly.  A "good" class can be a supportive and fun group learning experience.  A "bad" class can be petty, mean and trivial.  We would move and start over somewhere to get our kids into a good school environment, but I do think experiencing the group experience is an educational experience in itself.  For all my kids, homeschooling has been amazing, but attending school has also been very important in their development. (Ages 15, 11, 7, 3).  I just feel so blessed that I have had the option to do both.  Choice is a wonderful thing....


I totally agree.  I am fortunate to have a choice.  I know people who have to put their kids in crappy public schools because they cannot homeschool.  I know people who have to homeschool for various reasons.  I can't imagine how that feels.  We move a lot, and before each move, I research the state's homeschooling laws as well as the public school stats.  This time I chose the public school as the best option for us, but I am open to homeschooling if DD's school experiences change.  It's good to have choice.

 


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It was funded by a special-interest homeschooling group.

 

 

I'm really curious as to who you think should do a study? the govt? the local public schools?  I really can't see any government funding a study or wanting one done. Special interest and money is not going HS's way!

 

most people complain now about taxes and want so called less government / intervention in their lives- I can't see a study being done, so we might find that HS is positive- what  happens next? we have megga institutions that cost tons of money---I know in my area with the housing bubble and people leaving certain area school taxes are going up (we tax in my state for schools based on property---regardless if you have children in PS or not - building still cost money to run regardless of the number of student)

 

what would they want to do should the results be positive? 


 

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It's an interesting read.  But it is faulty through and through.  It was funded by a special-interest homeschooling group.  And the results are very strange, or at least the way they are interpreted is very strange.  From the responses of a sample of 226 previously homeschooled adults from 121 families, they feel that they can make a broad statement like, "Overall, young adults who had been homeschooled were better educated than similarly aged Canadians."  From a sample of 121 families?  Wow.


Indeed the fact that it is funded by a homeschooling group limits its usefulness a lot.  Frustratingly, almost all homeschooling research is conducted or compiled by homeschooling support groups.  hence my coming here in search of some truly neutral social science research leads.  Unfortunately, it appears there isn't much (though the group learning research is certainly applicable).

 

 

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I've been following this thread all long.  I do know that Psychology Today is always publishing articles on homeschooling from a scientific/psychological viewpoint, though every single one all of them have been positive, including the TED talks I heard about it though.  All of the articles I have read have been written by people who hold doctorate degrees.  Not sure if this is what your interested in, OP.  

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/search/query?keys=homeschooling&x=16&y=13

 

 

I'm sure you've already checked out Google Scholar and run a search on homeschooling?

 

And just from personal experience, every one of my friends who had to make the education decision in the past few years considered all their options.  Those who could afford private school and who didn't feel comfortable educating their children went with that, some went with public, some homeschooled.  It's not really a black and white issue.  People homeschool or send their kids to school for a million different reasons.  Homeschool, public, private, etc. are all options that have equal footing depending on the town, family, child...I really wish it wasn't us vs them.  It's not, it's about what is right for my child and my family?  It's about making informed decisions.  There are going to be downsides and negatives to any of these options.  There is no perfect solution and the decision you make now might not be the same one you make in 2 years or even next summer.  


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