Colleges and Universities--where are the real good ones?! - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 56 Old 05-12-2012, 01:57 PM
Dar
 
Dar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 11,438
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
collegeboard.com has a search engine that lets you search by whatever parameters you set. I also think you two should think about whether she would really want the "small liberal arts college" experience, which is perfect for some kids but stifling for others. Most small liberal arts colleges don't have strong hard sciences programs with many research opportunities, at least when compared to somewhat larger research universities. Also, most small liberal arts colleges don't have graduate programs, so kids who finish 400 level classes and want to go on are limited (for example, my kid is taking 400 level Russian translation as a sophomore, but will be able to follow that with two years or graduate level Russian).

 
fambedsingle1.gifSingle mom to Rain (1/93) , grad student, and world traveler earth.gif


  

Dar is offline  
#32 of 56 Old 05-13-2012, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
Bekka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I was able to take a graduate level Russian course as an undergrad at USC.  They "let" me take the first semester graduate seminar as a senior to fill my last upper division requirement.  I worked really hard.  I majored in Russian.  Columbia U has a good program as well, but it's been several years since I applied to grad school in Russian (chose not to continue).  Slavic depts tend to be small as well, so you want to be sure she likes the fakultet.  She also should probably plan to do study abroad--I did not (long story) but she would have such a rich experience.  :)

 

I read about Williams College--apparently it has a strong sciences background as well.  This is why I was hoping for feedback; I don't know which unis and colleges have strong liberal arts programs, and was hoping for feedback, which I am getting here.  :)

 

Thanks all!

Bekka is offline  
#33 of 56 Old 05-13-2012, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
 
Bekka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

There is an attendant thing to consider--many universities do not offer research opportunities to students who do not qualify for work-study.  My husband had this issue.  He had to look outside our uni for good research opportunities in summer programs.  He did great overall, and loved his education, but considers that a minus of his experience.

Bekka is offline  
#34 of 56 Old 05-13-2012, 09:40 AM
Dar
 
Dar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 11,438
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekka View Post

I was able to take a graduate level Russian course as an undergrad at USC. 

Well, right, that's my point - USC is not a small liberal arts college; it's a large university with graduate programs, so there are more opportunities to go further. Rain is at American in DC, which she chose in part because she could take 600 and 700-level classes in Russian (and being able to study abroad was also one of her criteria, but she's already spent a year in Russia and probably won't do that again during undergrad).

There is a lot of money out there for women interested in STM majors, and a lot of programs, at both the undergrad and graduate level. Small liberal arts colleges tend not to be the places to find it, and to get involved with movers and shakers in that field. I'm at Wash U, which is a major research university but also would allow her to take classes in violin and Latin/classics (and we have an awesome anthro department). It's got about 6000 undergrads and and 4000 grad students. Emory might also be a place to look.

 
fambedsingle1.gifSingle mom to Rain (1/93) , grad student, and world traveler earth.gif


  

Dar is offline  
#35 of 56 Old 05-14-2012, 06:49 AM
 
Qestia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,020
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Please don't rule out a college based on price. Generally the price you see if not the price you pay. But every college is now required to post a "net price" calculator on their website, where you can input your family's information to find out what, on average, a family with your profile would pay. That information is also on the government's college navigator website. See here for Reed, for example: http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=reed&s=all&id=209922#netprc

All other colleges are on that website too.

 

There are so many different types of colleges out there... I agree the best school is the one that's right for your child. A stranger on the internet can't really speak to that.


Mom to DS 5/05 and DD 9/08
Qestia is offline  
#36 of 56 Old 05-14-2012, 07:59 AM
 
beanma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: with the dustbunnies & sugar beans
Posts: 8,159
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)

Qestia, that's an interesting link, and you've got a very good point that it's worth contacting the schools your family is interested in and checking out financial aid possibilities, but according to the net price calculator Reed still costs too much for our family.

 

I think price is a VERY important consideration. I stand by everything I've said in this thread. I don't think it's worth it to put yourself or your child in debt for the perfect school. There are so many other schools out there that are good enough. If your child is able to earn a scholarship or your family income qualifies your child for financial aid that's great, but that's unlikely to be our situation. Our family is neither rich enough to easily shell out the big bucks w/o a qualm, nor are we likely to qualify for much in the way of financial aid. So we've pretty much got to be able to pay for it. And we're not taking out big loans. 

 

Personally, I feel like I could have been plenty happy at any number of schools. I enjoyed my time at UNC, though, and got an excellent education. UNC has one of top schools in the nation for my field of study and my parents paid in-state tuition. DH went to a small (expensive) private school and he has mixed feelings about it. Overall I think he enjoyed it and he definitely made some great friends there who we are still close to. I don't think he feels like it was that school or nothing, though. I think he does sometimes wonder how he would have fared at a bigger school. 

 

So, for our family, we'll look at what we can afford as the very first criteria. There's no point in getting our kids' hopes up about a school if we can't pay for it. If our kids qualify for scholarships—wonderful! We'll check out financial aid availability, but won't expect much help there. I'm not saying they have to go to community college (although I know lots of folks who are going that route to save money and then transferring in for their last couple of years), but I doubt if we'll spring for one of the schools on this list of most expensive colleges in the US.

 

Bekka, you might find these rankings interesting: http://centerforcollegeaffordability.org/rankings/2011-rankings and http://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/ . Some of them are still very expensive, but the list might have a few schools on it you haven't thought of yet.


Mamatreehugger.gif to two girl beans, Feb 2001hearts.gif and Nov 2003coolshine.gif . DH geek.gif, and two crazydog2.gifdog2.gif . Running on biodiesel since 2004!
 
"All you fascists are bound to lose" — Woody Guthrie
beanma is online now  
#37 of 56 Old 05-14-2012, 08:16 AM
 
Ragana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 1,889
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekka View Post
I asked if there were a school with a physics major, and violin performance minor, and Latin/Classics minor, how would that sound; she thought it sounded GREAT.  She also has diverse interests in and around social studies/anthropology, Scottish fiddling, and music composition.  This is why I'm exploring the strong liberal arts component--she has so many diverse interests that she will probably need/want an honors program of some kind with emphasis on academic exploration and discussion--deep and wide over diverse topics around the world.

 

Check out Macalester College in St. Paul, MN: http://www.macalester.edu/

 

Small, liberal arts school. Affordable. Strong international focus (one of our most famous alums = Kofi Annan) and many international students/study abroad opportunities. Scottish heritage, so opportunity to participate in Scottish music and dancing. Famous anthro dept. (google Jack Weatherford)

You would need to check out the current majors/minors, but at least when I went there, they had all of those.


Mom "D" to DD1 "Z" (14) and DD2 "I" (11) DH "M"

Ragana is online now  
#38 of 56 Old 05-14-2012, 11:16 AM
 
CJ's mommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Worcester Polytechnic Institute,  Worcester, MA

CJ's mommy is offline  
#39 of 56 Old 05-14-2012, 02:01 PM
 
Linda on the move's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: basking in the sunshine
Posts: 10,634
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by beanma View Post

 

I think price is a VERY important consideration. I stand by everything I've said in this thread. I don't think it's worth it to put yourself or your child in debt for the perfect school. There are so many other schools out there that are good enough.

 

 

I completely agree. I've known too many adults struggling to pay off school debt, and both the prevalence university debt and amount borrowed (even adjusted for inflation) have gone up since my generation went to school.

 

There is a wonderful little book called Debt-Free U about paying for college. An entire chapter is devoted to "your first one is free."  It's about how financial aid offices offer kids cushy deals for the first year, but after that, it just LOANS.

 

There isn't an area of life where it makes sense to not look at price tags, esp. not for for something that can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

Here is a recent New York Times article:

http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/14/college-costs-weighing-down-a-generation-with-student-debt/

Super~Single~Mama likes this.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

Linda on the move is online now  
#40 of 56 Old 05-15-2012, 04:09 AM
 
mtiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qestia View Post

But every college is now required to post a "net price" calculator on their website, where you can input your family's information to find out what, on average, a family with your profile would pay. That information is also on the government's college navigator website.

 

Just be aware that what that calculator shows is only an estimate. You may get more - or less - aid than the calculator indicates.

mtiger is offline  
#41 of 56 Old 05-15-2012, 04:57 AM
 
Linda on the move's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: basking in the sunshine
Posts: 10,634
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtiger View Post

 

Just be aware that what that calculator shows is only an estimate. You may get more - or less - aid than the calculator indicates.

 

And remember that "aid" includes loans and work study. The amount shown in just the cash you need to bring to the table now, not the cash you will be earning as you go or the paying for years and years.


but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

Linda on the move is online now  
#42 of 56 Old 05-16-2012, 06:01 AM
 
mtiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Yes, aid may include work study (don't know what's wrong with that, to be honest) and some loans. It's the amount of loans that one needs to look at. Both of mine will wrack up ~$5k/yr in loans. That's $20k overall. Really, that is manageable, IMO.

 

And, actually... The difference between the calculators and the actual amount of aid each of mine got? Was in academic awards. Had nothing to do with loans or work study. It was extra money, free and clear. And my oldest's university has not reduced his awards at all. <shrug>

mtiger is offline  
#43 of 56 Old 05-16-2012, 06:24 AM
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cover letter he!!
Posts: 6,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekka View Post

Good discussion.  In the circles I move in, many of my friends either attended one of a couple church-sponsored schools or have been homeschooled/have homeschooled and they or their children have followed alternative paths to education (College Plus).  I am very interested in many paths to education, but my oldest daughter is a knowledge and information sponge, and she is really the type to benefit from a liberal arts AND sciences-type education that delves into why and how people are the way they are, etc. and would like a broader picture than these few schools.

 

William and Mary in VA is a very good school, my cousin is there right now. Sounds mostly liberal arts, but is super challenging. My friend from law school found law school to be easy because of how rigorous W&M was.

 

The University of Mary Washington is where my mom went (when it was practically all girls, and was the women's portion of UVA), and she loved it (as an aside, my grandma is my hero - she graduated from Mary Washington when she was 76 to fulfill her lifelong dream of earning a degree - 30 years to the day after my mom graduated). They have a good science school, I looked at them for chemistry, but are also very liberal arts focused.

 

Anyway, food for thought.

Super~Single~Mama is offline  
#44 of 56 Old 05-16-2012, 06:39 AM
 
hildare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in-the-sticks-off-a-dirt-road, GA
Posts: 2,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Based on what you said her interests were, you might take a look at Rice

I did NOT go there.  I went to a very tiny, private, liberal arts women's college that no one's ever heard of.  I had a bf that went to Rice and it sounded like just the thing for a sciency-musicy person.

` a quote from  Wiki about what you were speaking of:

 

Rice's undergraduate students benefit from a centralized admissions process, which admits new students to the university as a whole, rather than a specific school (the schools of Music and Architecture are decentralized). Students are encouraged to select the major path that best suits their desires; a student can later decide that they would rather pursue study in another field, or continue their current coursework and add a second or third major. These transitions are designed to be simple at Rice, with students not required to decide on a specific major until their sophomore year of study.


Is it getting lonely in the echo chamber yet?

hildare is offline  
#45 of 56 Old 05-17-2012, 12:00 AM
 
squimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ecotopia
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I went to Earlham too and loved it.  Great natural sciences faculty.  

 

Oberlin would be a good choice for music and science.  I've been super impressed with colleagues of mine who went there.  Small liberal arts. 

squimp is offline  
#46 of 56 Old 05-24-2012, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
Bekka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

In light of this discussion, I've just begun reading about the life of George Eliot.  She sounds like a brilliant woman, at a time when women did not go to university, and she sought out tutors and teachers and learned many languages, and spoke with religious leaders, and had her finger on the pulse of the political dynamics of her country.  She is fascinating to read about!  People sought her out to speak with her.  So what is the possibility of gaining a "liberal arts" type of education for oneself over a lifetime, as Marian Evans was able to learn having a stipend, so to speak for her living.  If she had needed to work/teach/etc. for her living, there would have been less time for active learning...

Bekka is offline  
#47 of 56 Old 05-29-2012, 05:59 AM
 
mtiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hildare View Post

I went to a very tiny, private, liberal arts women's college that no one's ever heard of. 

 

Sounds like where my daughter is going.  500 students, total. Was single gender until just about 10 years ago. Everyone asks "where's THAT?" It has lots of traditions from years past, which is something she really liked about it.

mtiger is offline  
#48 of 56 Old 05-29-2012, 09:55 AM
 
nd_deadhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragana View Post

You would need to check out the current majors/minors, but at least when I went there, they had all of those.

Just because a college or university offers a major does not mean it is a good program. I work for a state University, so my son would get a 50% tuition discount if he went here - but his interest is Biology, and the department sucks. When he and my DH met with the department chairman, he looked at my son's grades and ACT scores and said "Why would you want to go HERE?" He didn't bother to show him around the labs; he suggested that if ds decided to go there, he should double major in biology and chemistry - because apparently even he doesn't believe his program would prepare my son up for a great grad school.

 

Compare that to the biochemistry department at the state university 75 miles away. The dept chair put on his best recruiting speech - gave ds the full tour, explained that they try to get undergrads involved in research projects, even as freshmen, and offered him a departmental scholarship (which they don't usually give to freshmen). The program has an excellent reputation (my DH got his MS there), and they made a fantastic impression.


If the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.

nd_deadhead is offline  
#49 of 56 Old 06-12-2012, 03:49 AM
 
Buzzbuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

One other consideration is where your child wants to end up geographically after college.  There are any number of good schools whose reputations are not well known outside their region. 

 

If the desire is to end up in New York or DC or San Francisco after college, perhaps looking at schools in that location or only schools with a more national reputation is appropriate.

 

Also, if graduate school is being seriously considered your child might want to give some thought as to how their college choice may affect their graduate school opportunities.  I went to a small college in my home state but had the benefit of knowing in advance that that college was well thought of by the very competitive graduate program at my in-state "public ivy" which was my ultimate goal.  However, if I wanted to go to an out-of-state "public ivy" or "ivy league" graduate school my college of choice would have been a detriment rather than an assistance -- it would have been basically unknown to the average admissions person.

 

Also -- if she is looking at the hard sciences, she needs to know that despite all the hype, a BS (and sometimes even an MS or PhD) in the sciences is not a route to a great-paying job.  Engineering is one thing.  The sciences (particularly chemistry) are another.

mariamadly likes this.

I support homebirth that meets the qualifications set forth in the AAP's 2013 policy on homebirth.

Buzzbuzz is offline  
#50 of 56 Old 06-14-2012, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
Bekka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

:)  I got my bachelors in biological sciences.  Her dad did 9 years graduate study in physics.  He chose private industry instead of academia.  We can give real-world examples of what you can do with a science degree. :)

Bekka is offline  
#51 of 56 Old 06-17-2012, 06:21 AM
 
Buzzbuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I can too, with a husband in private industry, BS and MS in Chemistry, making $62,500.   Those I know in the sciences (versus engineering) who are making a large bankroll have, in every instance, transititioned over to the management/business side (frequently obtaining an MBA along the way).   They are managing science not "doing" science. 

 

Obviously, there is always space and money for the creme de la creme of any profession but given the reporting in the academic press about having too many science PhDs those opportunities are more competitive.


I support homebirth that meets the qualifications set forth in the AAP's 2013 policy on homebirth.

Buzzbuzz is offline  
#52 of 56 Old 06-17-2012, 06:31 PM
 
LynnS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pacific NW longing for the Midwest
Posts: 12,565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I don't think you can make a generic list. It really depends on the child. My niece went to Scripps -- 227 graduating seniors or something like that. It was the perfect place for her to be. High academic standards, opportunities to really focus on what she wanted, intimate environment + ability to take a big range of classes from any of the Claremont Colleges. I would have hated it. I was very very happy at the University of Minnesota. It let me have the diversity of classes and the real advantages of a big, research university. It allowed me to change majors from engineering to biology to German without huge cost. Because it was large, I got to focus on German linguistics as an undergrad, an option that most smaller colleges can't give. I didn't need hand-holding -- I needed to try out my options. I went to Cornell as a graduate student. I had a great graduate experience, but having taught the undergraduates there, I would have hated the undergraduate experience. Far too many entitled kids with far more money than I could ever hope to have. The class lines were really clear, and the undergrads without a lot of money did feel it.

 

So, I think you really have to match the interests and personality of your child to the strengths and features of the school. There are a lot of really really good public institutions out there that people often overlook. I strongly suspect that our son will end up at a medium sized liberal arts institution, and our daughter will end up at a large school - given their personalities, strengths and interests. Ds thrives in a smaller environment. Dd needs challenge and options. But, ask me again in 7-10 years when my kids enter university. I have no idea how they will develop.


Lynnteapot2.GIF, academicreading.gif,geek.gif wife, WOHM  to T jog.gif(4/01) and M whistling.gif (5/04)
LynnS6 is offline  
#53 of 56 Old 06-17-2012, 07:08 PM
 
moominmamma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: In the middle of nowhere, at the centre of everything.
Posts: 5,680
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)

I agree with LynnS6, and that's why I haven't replied. My dd is attending a university that's perfect for her: it's in a large, artistically and musically vibrant bilingual city, it enrols the country's best young classical string players (whom she can play in orchestras and ensembles with) and employs a violin professor who is an ideal fit for her. No idea whether it would suit a student wanting an customizable program in social sciences or a rigorous engineering program or whatever.

 

Miranda


Mountain mama to three great kids and one great grown-up

moominmamma is online now  
#54 of 56 Old 06-18-2012, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
Bekka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I agree, but I think that making a list of schools that can even start to offer what she's interested in (Classics, physical sciences/physics, and violin or composition) will already narrow the field.  I know that there are excellent schools out there I've never heard of.  Hence, the start of the thread here--trying to gather info from multiple sources.  :)
 

Bekka is offline  
#55 of 56 Old 07-15-2012, 11:26 AM
 
claras_mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: California Central Coast
Posts: 2,776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekka View Post

She is interested in physical sciences, probably major in physics, although she's saying chemistry is really interesting too.
She's a serious violinist, but probably doesn't want to pursue it as a career--instead she'd like to minor or major as a liberal arts music major/minor.
She LOVES Latin and Classics studies, and I could see her with a triple major, or 2 majors/1 minor, or 1 major/2 minors.  We'll see what bubbles up as her biggest love, or maybe something else entirely.

I asked if there were a school with a physics major, and violin performance minor, and Latin/Classics minor, how would that sound; she thought it sounded GREAT.  She also has diverse interests in and around social studies/anthropology, Scottish fiddling, and music composition.  This is why I'm exploring the strong liberal arts component--she has so many diverse interests that she will probably need/want an honors program of some kind with emphasis on academic exploration and discussion--deep and wide over diverse topics around the world.

College of Creative Studies at the University of California-Santa Barbara

http://www.ccs.ucsb.edu

Mom of two girls.
claras_mom is offline  
#56 of 56 Old 08-23-2012, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
Bekka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

awesome!  Thank you!  That's the kind of info I'm not able to find on the first round of a uni's webpage!  :)

Bekka is offline  
Reply

Tags
School

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off