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#301 of 482 Old 01-06-2014, 04:45 PM
 
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Well I have decided this is not a parent problem but a teacher problem. The whole thing! Teachers do need to be held more accountable and I think the answer is for them to have a master's before even entering the classroom. Bullying. Why can't teachers stop bullying? Aren't they noticing it out at recess. Maybe we need more teachers to watch what is really happening outside at recess if a child is in any way shape or form different. Teachers need to be more accountable and I'm mad that I am stressing over something that is a teacher problem.
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#302 of 482 Old 01-06-2014, 04:51 PM
 
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Basically when you go in to see a doctor and if you are not sure about them you ask what their credentials are. This my sister has done at least. So shouldn't we parents be asking/demanding that our teachers have proper credentials before being allowed to be in a classroom?
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#303 of 482 Old 01-06-2014, 04:55 PM
 
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I think this is where the country should be headed. It's where other countries are headed. Australia I saw, Finland. Now yes they are smaller countries but I think this is what we should be demanding of our teachers and I am sick of things being placed on innocent children when in fact it is a teacher problem. They do not have masters degrees. Heck a physical therapist cannot practice physical therapy in this country without a masters degree.
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#304 of 482 Old 01-06-2014, 05:13 PM
 
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Nevermind, I'll stick to one of my NY resolutions instead.

DH+Me 1994 heartbeat.gif DS 2004 heartbeat.gif DD 2008 heartbeat.gif DDog 2014
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#305 of 482 Old 01-06-2014, 06:36 PM
 
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A master's degree does not automatically make teachers able to stop bullying.

 

Slbrooks, you clearly care about your kids' school.  That's great.  But it seems like you're spinning your wheels about things like Common Core and teacher degrees when those don't seem to have a lot to do with the real problems, which you have described as test anxiety and now bullying.

 

If a kid you know is self-mutilating, that kid needs help.  It's not a school problem or a teacher problem.


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#306 of 482 Old 01-06-2014, 06:39 PM
 
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Well I have decided this is not a parent problem but a teacher problem. The whole thing! Teachers do need to be held more accountable and I think the answer is for them to have a master's before even entering the classroom. Bullying. Why can't teachers stop bullying? Aren't they noticing it out at recess. Maybe we need more teachers to watch what is really happening outside at recess if a child is in any way shape or form different. Teachers need to be more accountable and I'm mad that I am stressing over something that is a teacher problem.

My DS's elementary school uses PBIS (Positive Behavior Intervention and Support) and my DD's charter school uses the Responsive Classroom. Her school is great. They really work on connecting children from grades K-5. The have All School Recess, which is just what it sounds like. All the kids, and teachers, go out together.

A Master's degree won't solve the bullying problem.
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#307 of 482 Old 01-07-2014, 04:24 AM
 
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Well they should have credentials just like doctors and lawyers do. Sorry you aren't going to change my mind on this. Bullying was just one thing I mentioned. Testing children is child abuse in my opinion. An 8 year old should not be worried about taking a test yet. Too young. But teachers that's another story...they should have good credentials from the get go just like doctors and lawyers.
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#308 of 482 Old 01-08-2014, 07:16 AM
 
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Teachers do have credentials.  TEACHING credentials.  If you expect more, we will need to pay more.

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#309 of 482 Old 01-08-2014, 08:14 AM
 
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I'm not sure if this link has been posted to this thread or not

 

http://www.parenttoolkit.com/

 

It's supposed to help you track what your child is doing and what they should be doing in school and give you tips on things like how to make the most of a parent teacher conference.


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#310 of 482 Old 01-08-2014, 08:33 AM
 
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Teachers do have credentials.  TEACHING credentials.  If you expect more, we will need to pay more.

 

Yes, and lots more, I'd venture to say. The USA already rates internationally right near the bottom for teachers' salaries (and right near the top for work hours), and the increase would have to be enough to compensate them for the extra 2-4 years of education, living expenses and deferment of employment income.

 

Personally I don't think having a prospective teacher do even more advanced coursework and thesis-writing in their chosen subject area helps them at all with teaching the basics of their subject to children. And I think Masters degrees in education offer mostly theoretical knowledge the majority of the time, and delay the prospective teacher getting into the classroom where teaching ability is really honed. I think what counts in the development of teaching ability is in-the-trenches experience combined with ongoing professional development, mentoring and support. There's some really interesting stuff in Liping Ma's book "Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics" about the model that's used to optimize math teaching in China and other parts of Asia. A really deep interest and understanding of basic math, and ongoing development of same, is the key that Asian countries have identified and utilized so capably. 

 

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#311 of 482 Old 01-08-2014, 08:40 AM
 
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Yes, and lots more, I'd venture to say. The USA already rates internationally right near the bottom for teachers' salaries (and right near the top for work hours), and the increase would have to be enough to compensate them for the extra 2-4 years of education, living expenses and deferment of employment income.

Personally I don't think having a prospective teacher do even more advanced coursework and thesis-writing in their chosen subject area helps them at all with teaching the basics of their subject to children. And I think Masters degrees in education offer mostly theoretical knowledge the majority of the time, and delay the prospective teacher getting into the classroom where teaching ability is really honed. I think what counts in the development of teaching ability is in-the-trenches experience combined with ongoing professional development, mentoring and support. There's some really interesting stuff in Liping Ma's book "Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics" about the model that's used to optimize math teaching in China and other parts of Asia. A really deep interest and understanding of basic math, and ongoing development of same, is the key that Asian countries have identified and utilized so capably. 

Miranda
This...this...this...
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#312 of 482 Old 01-08-2014, 08:52 AM
 
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I taught elementary school for a few years.  Yes, I think teachers having advanced degrees is a good thing.  Education is a wonderful thing.  BUT those degrees do not necessarily make a better teacher. 

 

I'll be honest:  Teaching is more of a trade than anything.  The aforementioned theoretical knowledge of a university classroom only does so much.  My state currently as alternate licenses to teaching certification--and I admire those programs as much if not more so than a traditional college route.  Because it gets teachers in the classroom, practicing their skills, learning the nuances of each classroom of children, the nuances of each child.  I was warned multiple times in college that none of this would probably make sense until I reached the classroom--and then I'd be wondering why I bothered to learn it in college. 

 

But back to the advanced degrees: Once again, I totally respect a teacher with a masters or a doctorate.  But while many a teacher will go for a master's degree (it's a significant boost on the pay scale) very few bother with a doctorate because the compensating money is rarely worth it.


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#313 of 482 Old 01-08-2014, 09:05 AM
 
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I taught elementary school for a few years.  Yes, I think teachers having advanced degrees is a good thing.  Education is a wonderful thing.  BUT those degrees do not necessarily make a better teacher. 

I'll be honest:  Teaching is more of a trade than anything.  The aforementioned theoretical knowledge of a university classroom only does so much.  My state currently as alternate licenses to teaching certification--and I admire those programs as much if not more so than a traditional college route.  Because it gets teachers in the classroom, practicing their skills, learning the nuances of each classroom of children, the nuances of each child.  I was warned multiple times in college that none of this would probably make sense until I reached the classroom--and then I'd be wondering why I bothered to learn it in college. 

But back to the advanced degrees: Once again, I totally respect a teacher with a masters or a doctorate.  But while many a teacher will go for a master's degree (it's a significant boost on the pay scale) very few bother with a doctorate because the compensating money is rarely worth it.

I agree with all of this. Except for the part about the pay scale increases. The formerly teacher-friendly state of NC did away with those. Sigh.
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#314 of 482 Old 01-08-2014, 04:11 PM
 
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And I think Masters degrees in education offer mostly theoretical knowledge the majority of the time, and delay the prospective teacher getting into the classroom where teaching ability is really honed. I think what counts in the development of teaching ability is in-the-trenches experience combined with ongoing professional development, mentoring and support.

The norm where I am is that teachers get their masters after they are already teaching, and the classes assume that teachers are teaching full time. They have projects to do with their classes and then write about. It is professional development.

 

Here, most teachers get "endorsements," which is a series of graduate classes on a specific area of teaching (such as Early Childhood, Math, Reading, Structured English Immersion, etc).

 

National Board Certification is very big here, too. It is another avenue of professional development, and a lot of pressure on teachers to go for it here. Our district has a program to help teachers with this that partners them with a mentor.

 

I'd guess that at least half that teachers at my school have all 3: a couple of endorsements, a masters, and national board certification.

 

This is another area where No Child Left Behind has had a big impact. Schools had to hire "highly qualified" teachers to get a good grade.

 

The certification program I'm doing is an alternative program -- every one already has a bachelors, and most work in a school full time. There is an option for a provisional certification so that some one can be hired as a teacher and then complete the program. I've heard it is pretty brutal, especial for special education. First year teaching is pretty brutal, to do it while also learning the ins and out of the laws, paper work, philosophical background, having homework, etc is very rough.


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#315 of 482 Old 01-08-2014, 05:43 PM
 
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Well I've found out from my group that teachers are not the answer to the problem for them to get masters. They are already required locally and in New York State to get a masters.

The head of my group wanted me to read this so I'm sending it on since no one else from my group wants to help me with this board.

http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/01/abolishing-representative-government-education-common-core-choice-charter-schools/

The other administrator of the group posted this today.

http://inthesetimes.com/article/15849/teachers_were_never_the_problem/

Conclude what you will!
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#316 of 482 Old 01-08-2014, 06:12 PM
 
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no one else from my group wants to help me with this board.

 

"Help" with this board in what respect? Are message boards like this one being targeted by your group for advocacy work? Is that why you're here? Not sure I'm understanding your intent in posting on this board, or in posting the articles you've just linked to.

 

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#317 of 482 Old 01-08-2014, 06:15 PM
 
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No this was all my idea.
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#318 of 482 Old 01-08-2014, 07:17 PM
 
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Why would you ask someone else for "help with this board"?  If you don't understand the issues well enough (and that's written without judgement -- there are plenty of issues I don't understand well enough to debate), why wouldn't you be asking questions instead of trying to "inform" others?


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#319 of 482 Old 01-08-2014, 07:21 PM
 
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I very much agree what the second article by David Sirota is saying, by the way. 

 

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#320 of 482 Old 01-08-2014, 07:26 PM
 
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I'm not asking questions because I did come here to inform. I'm kind of frightened now and didn't think such a thing as a New World Order existed. I asked my group while I was on here for help because I was being attacked and ignored. I notice that there used to be a forum that you used to be able to go to if you were an activist. I'm really not even an activist just a parent and someone who cares about all children. I think we have a real problem with the common core because it's essentially is the government and corporations are after our kids.
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#321 of 482 Old 01-08-2014, 07:38 PM
 
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I don't know if this is reassuring or frightening to you, but much of the original intent behind the compulsory public school system was to turn a potentially unruly population of new immigrants into compliant workers for the factories of the industrial revolution. One of the inspirations for American public schooling was the Prussian military school model because it was so effective at producing compliance with authoritarian order. So public education has always been driven by government and corporations. There's nothing new there. Our schools are a reflection of our society, constructed and influenced by those in positions of power. And the reason that 150 to 200 years of governmental/industrial/corporate agenda hasn't turned all of us into drones is that this agenda is filtered through teachers who have the best interests of their individual students at heart, and by children who are engaged learners and want to drive their own educations.

 

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#322 of 482 Old 01-08-2014, 07:56 PM
 
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But they had school before that. Have you read Laura Ingals Wilder? They had schools in Civil War times. I'm appalled and this is surreal.
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#323 of 482 Old 01-08-2014, 09:11 PM
 
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They did not have compulsory government schools. That's relatively recent. ETA: The first compulsory attendance laws came in in 1874 in New York, as late as the early 1900s in lots of states. Prior to that children were casually schooled at home, or went to private schools, community-run schools or parochial schools.

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#324 of 482 Old 01-09-2014, 10:12 AM
 
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This is quite interesting. My husband is a science teacher who was more or less trained in how to use Common Core because he just finished up a Masters in Education that focused on all the new standards being used here in Florida, including CC. For science, he seems to have no problem with it as a teacher. Now, he does teach at an alternative education site for juvenile offenders, most of whom have had limited schooling, and so have of his work is just teaching them how to read and do math, but my impression of CC overall is that it's pretty well thought out, I've watched several videos by the creators of the standards and what was discussed seemed quite valid.
Of course, my son is only 1 year old and so I have no experience with CC as a parent of a child using it in school. I went to a Waldorf school myself, and have little regard for most public schools. If my son does attend a public school, we'll see what my husband and I really think about.
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#325 of 482 Old 01-09-2014, 11:32 AM
 
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In NY we haven't gotten to science yet. Welcome to the board btw. I don't know anything about other school programs like the ones mentioned on this site but it sounds good. Anything different sounds good to me right now. Is your husband asked to keep hush hush about CC and not talk about it with parents? That's what is happening in NY. Here is a good article that explains a senator's in NY objection to common core.

http://www.timesunion.com/opinion/article/Common-ground-for-students-5121375.php#src=fb
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Oh my God I got the best news today for my state!!!!!

http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/S6267-2013

Miracles do occur!!! Here is a petition to sign if you are interested in supporting something that is hurting my state of NY.

http://www.nysenate.gov/webform/petition-stop-common-core-new-york-state

My faith in God has just been restored!!!!
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Oh my God I got the best news today for my state!!!!!

http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/S6267-2013

Miracles do occur!!! Here is a petition to sign if you are interested in supporting something that is hurting my state of NY.

http://www.nysenate.gov/webform/petition-stop-common-core-new-york-state

My faith in God has just been restored!!!!
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#328 of 482 Old 01-10-2014, 07:13 AM
 
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Sorry I'm so excited I had to post it twice. smile.gif
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#329 of 482 Old 01-10-2014, 09:27 AM
 
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I became interested in the politics of this issue, which is undeniable given the sources for many of the articles linked in this thread - some that are repugnant to me.  
 
I thought this article did a good job of explaining the politics behind some of the debate we're seeing:  
 
Quote:
 Beck’s soul mate Michelle Malkin warned that the Common Core was “about top-down control engineered through government-administered tests and left-wing textbook monopolies.” Before long, FreedomWorks — the love child of Koch brothers cash and Tea Party passion — and the American Principles Project, a religious-right lobby, had joined the cause. Opponents have mobilized Tea Partyers to barnstorm in state capitals and boiled this complex issue down to an obvious slogan, “ObamaCore!”

 

If applying the philosophy "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" puts any person in a place where the Koch brothers are their friend...well, I'd say it's time for a change in philosophy - especially if limiting corporate power and influence is a goal. 

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#330 of 482 Old 01-10-2014, 10:42 AM
 
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This is a concern of mine, but in the current climate, it remains with or without the CC.

 

Quote:

 There are Common Core critics on the left as well, who argue that the accountability movement makes teachers scapegoats for problems caused mainly by poverty.
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