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#421 of 482 Old 01-19-2014, 07:07 PM
 
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I don't really know, actually.  We have poor leadership in our school, so our admin team will probably wait until the last minute to tackle this issue, and then somehow thrust some impossible plan on the English dept.  

NCLB punishes schools for not testing everyone or enough students in each sub-group, and I think that still applies with CC.  That would mean that our report card would list us in a negative light.
I would think the district, or state, would be responsible.

NC is one of the states developing the Smarter Balanced Assessment but has decided to wait and reevaluate whether to go with that or our state assessment.

I had DS's IEP meeting this week and talked with his teachers about the CC. Overall, they are fine with the standards (at least the 3rd grade ones) but all the assessment is killing them.
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#422 of 482 Old 01-19-2014, 07:11 PM
 
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I guess I should have just gotten the article from public discourse. If you think it is just upset with Christianity not being in the schools then you are reading it wrong. It goes on how parents should have more choices and the state should not be involved.
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#423 of 482 Old 01-19-2014, 07:32 PM
 
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Well, I disagree that the state has no place in state-paid and state-run education.

 

If a person doesn't want state-run education, she can homeschool.  Or, as you have posted, teach above and beyond what the state mandates.  Most of us do that anyhow, don't we?  Parents have plenty of choices.


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#424 of 482 Old 01-19-2014, 07:56 PM
 
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Yes homeschooling seems to be the best option for those who do not like states coerced into common core led government teachings.
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#425 of 482 Old 01-19-2014, 08:33 PM
 
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Yea, yea, yea!! That makes total sense to me. But I was wondering where the issue becomes more of a concern with CC? 


For my kids, the stakes are now higher, and we need to figure out how to bring them up to where they need to be. And to quote the speech again

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 Those who dominate the bottom half of the bell curve are the kids who lack those advantages, whose parents lack basic economic security, whose schools are overcrowded and under-resourced. To expect tougher standards and a renewed emphasis on standardized testing to reduce poverty and inequality is to expect what never was and never will be.
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#426 of 482 Old 01-19-2014, 08:39 PM
 
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I'm not being snarky, I promise, but what will happen if you can't test as you are required to?


After thinking about it a little bit more, I came up with some reasons that this worries me.  In our experience, the kid always do better with paper/pencil tests.  The technology can really throw them.  What if we're testing and have a system crash of some kind?  What if that causes a delay of some kind?  What if data is lost and they have to re-test? 

 

You'd think that what you're testing would be pretty objective, but the testing environment can be so important.  In our state, kids can test three times a year, and we used to test 9th-11th graders three times a year, telling them that this was a good way to practice and get familiar with the format, and that they still had chances and time.  All they heard was, "This doesn't count. I'll do it when I'm a senior."  So we started limiting their opportunities and many began to take it more seriously.  But for some kids, the reduced number of opportunities probably result in increased anxiety and poorer performance. I dunno...

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#427 of 482 Old 01-19-2014, 08:40 PM
 
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I would think the district, or state, would be responsible.

 


When the public read the school report cards in the paper, we tend to take a chunk of the blame in the comments online.

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#428 of 482 Old 01-19-2014, 11:18 PM
 
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When the public read the school report cards in the paper, we tend to take a chunk of the blame in the comments online.
Ugh. That's so unfair. I used to teach in an inner city elementary school. I know the comparisons and they suck.
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#429 of 482 Old 01-20-2014, 06:36 AM
 
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Yea, yea, yea!! That makes total sense to me. But I was wondering where the issue becomes more of a concern with CC? 


For my kids, the stakes are now higher, and we need to figure out how to bring them up to where they need to be. And to quote the speech again

Quote:
 Those who dominate the bottom half of the bell curve are the kids who lack those advantages, whose parents lack basic economic security, whose schools are overcrowded and under-resourced. To expect tougher standards and a renewed emphasis on standardized testing to reduce poverty and inequality is to expect what never was and never will be.

 

I absolutely agree that the (supposed) efforts of CC to address these issues is pretty absurd. With nearly all things that progressives worry about -- I tend to think that the solution is to deal with our economic problems. 
 
One thing I didn't appreciate about the article was the kind of laundry list effect. The author touched on Mass. and how they had higher standards than CC with success. I wonder if that can be used as a model for how other schools will respond after time to adjust. Or a s a model for how Mass. deals with their students struggling with poverty and related issues. 
 
Perhaps one of the main advantages of this debate is that it has people who were not previously talking about issues of poverty, testing, and etc. talking about those issues. 

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#430 of 482 Old 01-22-2014, 06:52 PM
 
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Oh boy I am excited! They are releasing a movie about the common core and I'm hoping it exposes it for what it really is. Indiana is pulling out of it as we speak. It's called Building the Machine 2014 and will be released this spring. You can find the trailer on youtube. I am not going to bother posting a link. Rolling my eyes!!!
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#431 of 482 Old 01-22-2014, 07:08 PM
 
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Oh and the website for the movie is also very informative!!!!! Wow!!!!
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#432 of 482 Old 01-23-2014, 06:12 AM
 
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The HSLDA is hardly an unbiased source.
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#433 of 482 Old 01-23-2014, 12:29 PM
 
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I don't know too much about the HSLDA - I'm not a home schooler (obviously).  I thought it interesting that they would choose to weigh in on this with such a big production. On the one hand, I'm open to what people I don't agree with about other issues have to say about the subject...but it's difficult to figure out where those opinions should go. I mean, I read a little about the mathematician that we talked about up thread (the one on the panel who ultimately did not endorse CC). From the looks of it, CC was not traditional enough for him -- so his general opinion about education and the fact that we may fundamentally disagree on how to teach really matters to me.  I watched the trailer. We probably got most of what's there - because it seems to be a pretty short film. In the end, I think if I were really interested in the content, I'd rather just get a list of the people they chose to interview and read some of their work. 

 

Brooks, a really interesting thought experiment for you may be to look to those few states that did not adopt CC and see how they compare to CC states during and after the adjustment period.  


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#434 of 482 Old 01-24-2014, 08:16 AM
 
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I've done some reading on the Common Core but I don't use it as a guide for learning because I homeschool my kids in a state that gives me freedom to choose.  Some of the methods I've read about are just down right cofangled and don't make logical sense to me as an adult- let alone my kids.  And I'm not the only one.  Elementary level questions asked to experts in their field couldn't even understand some of the questions, let alone form an answer.  I've heard reports that kids who use common core math really struggle to master the basics.  That's not what I want for my kids.  Teaching them is challenging enough with good curriculum.  On the other hand, if all the other students are forced into CC curriculums, I figure it will be easy peasy for them to get good jobs and excel in college in comparison to their peers- not that I wish CC on anybody.  I think it's bad for kids, bad for our nation.  I think kids grow at different rates and with different strengths and experiences and need time, especially in the early years, to develop without being labeled.  From what I've read, CC's greatest weakness, in my opinion, is that it erodes student confidence.  How'd you like to be in 1st grade and already believe that academics is too hard for you- not because you're actually incapable but because instructions are confusing and unclear.  My heart really goes out to these kids who have so much potential to be GREAT in a variety of subjects but feel shutdown by the wrong approach.  It's a travesty.  Just my .02  I would trust your gut if you feel CC is not a good fit for your daughter and do everything you can to find an alternative schooling situation with a more traditional approach.

 

Lori

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#435 of 482 Old 01-24-2014, 09:50 AM
 
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I've done some reading on the Common Core but I don't use it as a guide for learning because I homeschool my kids in a state that gives me freedom to choose.  

 

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 I would trust your gut if you feel CC is not a good fit for your daughter and do everything you can to find an alternative schooling situation with a more traditional approach.

 
 

 

I wonder if maybe a discussion among Homeschoolers who are concerned about CC wouldn't be best hosted in the HS forum - since we have one. Reading from the HSLDA, it seems there are some genuine concerns about that issue, especially in regards to state universities and GEDs, which are presumably topics of interest to HS families.  

 

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Teaching them is challenging enough with good curriculum.  On the other hand, if all the other students are forced into CC curriculums, I figure it will be easy peasy for them to get good jobs and excel in college in comparison to their peers- not that I wish CC on anybody.  

 

 

I think the issue of how schools and teachers approach differentiated education is a good one in regards to ALL LAS settings and I can totally see why the issue is raised again in the debate over CC, however, we do get back to this idea that CC is not a curriculum. The way it was first pitched to me, I assumed it was as well. 

 

As this debate goes on it seems more and more to me that there are good points about concern over CC - some that I very much agree with. There other good points that I happen to not agree with at all. And then there is a fair share of political ideology and fear mongering as well. I suppose that's the American condition these days. 


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#436 of 482 Old 01-24-2014, 10:12 AM
 
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Apologies for posting something I have not read/watched in entirety but I found this video of Dr. James Milgram. He really made a name for himself when he chose to not endorse CC but few sites actually link to anything more about him. http://vimeo.com/78006951


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#437 of 482 Old 01-24-2014, 11:31 AM
 
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I think the issue of how schools and teachers approach differentiated education is a good one in regards to ALL LAS settings and I can totally see why the issue is raised again in the debate over CC, however, we do get back to this idea that CC is not a curriculum. The way it was first pitched to me, I assumed it was as well.

 

I get that CC is not a curriculum but a set of standards- but I was referring to the curriculum a lot of schools have adopted in order to be CC compliant- meaning that CC compliant curriculum that's available right now, leaves something to be desired.  However, if I could say something positive about an educational site I like which states they are also CC compliant, it would be www.Starfall.com  I haven't used their subscription service, just the free parts they make available to everyone but this is a site which is claiming CC compliance that is worth every minute of your kids time!  It has definitely been instrumental in not only helping my kids learn to read but helping them remember grammar rules.  And they have fun doing it!  You learn more when you're having fun.  :-)

Blessings,

Lori

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#438 of 482 Old 01-24-2014, 03:52 PM
 
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I get that CC is not a curriculum but a set of standards- but I was referring to the curriculum a lot of schools have adopted in order to be CC compliant- meaning that CC compliant curriculum that's available right now, leaves something to be desired.  However, if I could say something positive about an educational site I like which states they are also CC compliant, it would be www.Starfall.com  I haven't used their subscription service, just the free parts they make available to everyone but this is a site which is claiming CC compliance that is worth every minute of your kids time!  It has definitely been instrumental in not only helping my kids learn to read but helping them remember grammar rules.  And they have fun doing it!  You learn more when you're having fun.  :-)

Blessings,

Lori

Ok, but to be fair, when we're talking about CC in general, we are talking about THOUSANDS of schools. So, while the public school curricula you saw examples from may not have appealed to you, some curricula form other schools may well have. (Although I do understand that part of the concern is that involvement in the standards may shrink and privatize more the market, which I can't get a good read on the accuracy of but if that's true, I think it's pretty scary too!). 

 

According to my DC's schools they were already on the trend towards looking deeper at subject matter and applying to real-world problems so the adjustment to CC was minor.  As far as I know they use pretty localized curricula but I can check on that. 

 

As for Starfall, I have mixed feelings about elementary school kids using computer games but I do think Starfall is a subscription at some schools. But, are they anyone's primary curriculum?  It's more like and add-on type of thing?   

 

Out of curiosity, I checked Calvert for their HS curriculum changes. It looks like they did add on Singapore math to their traditional math curriculum for kids who may need to comply with CC standards. So, yea, HS curriculum programs are adapting and I can see why this is an issue for those families. 


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#439 of 482 Old 01-24-2014, 06:06 PM
 
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As for Starfall, I have mixed feelings about elementary school kids using computer games but I do think Starfall is a subscription at some schools. But, are they anyone's primary curriculum?  It's more like and add-on type of thing?   

 

....So, yea, HS curriculum programs are adapting and I can see why this is an issue for those families. 

 

Starfall is used at the school where I work as an add-on. For example, all the computers in the computer lab have a subscription and K and first graders can use it during their one hour a week in the lab. Some teachers use it in the classroom for specific purposes, such as during calendar time. No one even considers it a curriculum -- its an educational game. Even though it claims to be CC aligned, I think that it is bit silly.

 

Because of the way threads have gone in the past, I don't feel that homeschoolers should be allowed to post anything negative about school or "that's why I homeschool" on this board. This is a support board for people who have kids in school, and it is just rude to post things like that. If they want to DISCUSS  common core in a polite way, that's fine.


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#440 of 482 Old 01-24-2014, 08:02 PM
 
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I've done some reading on the Common Core but I don't use it as a guide for learning because I homeschool my kids in a state that gives me freedom to choose.  Some of the methods I've read about are just down right cofangled and don't make logical sense to me as an adult- let alone my kids.  And I'm not the only one.  Elementary level questions asked to experts in their field couldn't even understand some of the questions, let alone form an answer.  I've heard reports that kids who use common core math really struggle to master the basics.  That's not what I want for my kids.  Teaching them is challenging enough with good curriculum.  On the other hand, if all the other students are forced into CC curriculums, I figure it will be easy peasy for them to get good jobs and excel in college in comparison to their peers- not that I wish CC on anybody.  I think it's bad for kids, bad for our nation.  I think kids grow at different rates and with different strengths and experiences and need time, especially in the early years, to develop without being labeled.  From what I've read, CC's greatest weakness, in my opinion, is that it erodes student confidence.  How'd you like to be in 1st grade and already believe that academics is too hard for you- not because you're actually incapable but because instructions are confusing and unclear.  My heart really goes out to these kids who have so much potential to be GREAT in a variety of subjects but feel shutdown by the wrong approach.  It's a travesty.  Just my .02  I would trust your gut if you feel CC is not a good fit for your daughter and do everything you can to find an alternative schooling situation with a more traditional approach.

 

Lori

 

 

Hi Lori, yes as others have alluded to, it would be more helpful if you didn't refer to your own kids as exempt from public school matters and therefore privileged in some way. This is the Learning at School board and members are here to discuss ways to work with and improve our public schools. Thanks for your understanding!! 


 
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#441 of 482 Old 01-24-2014, 08:35 PM
 
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Starfall is used at the school where I work as an add-on. For example, all the computers in the computer lab have a subscription and K and first graders can use it during their one hour a week in the lab. Some teachers use it in the classroom for specific purposes, such as during calendar time. No one even considers it a curriculum -- its an educational game. Even though it claims to be CC aligned, I think that it is bit silly.

That was my take on Starfall, for sure. We even had access to the subscription program (through a friend) and I found it to be little more than a game and I'm not so sure how I feel about games on the computer at that young age. 

 

I was out tonight with a teacher/admin friend who I respect and who works closely with kids with special needs and kids living with poverty. I asked her what she thought about CC, she said, "I like it. I think it's smart."  


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#442 of 482 Old 01-25-2014, 06:33 AM
 
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Speaking of educational games and at-home resources for LAS families, I checked the two sites I like to see how they have changed to align themselves with CC. 

 

The site IXL is a site my DC has used with some success.  They used to have a page almost exactly like this that reflected the state standards. And, of course, I love Kahn Academy. Here is a link to his CC map.

 

I will say that it was never quite clear to me what was my DC's school curriculum (International Baccalaureate) and what was CC because DC is new to the school. But, my DC's math education looks a lot like the Kahn Adademy map

 

As a parent, the type of things my DC is learning and the way she is being taught seem superior for ALL KIDS than the way I was taught math. What it seems to me is this solid foundation in subject areas. Taking the time to go deep into something, IMO, provides time for kids with different learning styles to click with the content. My DC has been doing ratios with this subtle intro to pre-algebra for the whole year so far. This is a long term experiment, I suppose but in about November it occurred to me that she may never forget this information. 

 

Also, if the curriculum is built well, it seems like this "fewer/deeper" set of standards can allow for a variation on mastery learning, which was advocated on one of the anti-CC sites listed (or probably from one of the educators quoted on the sites). 

 

The way the curriculum works, it leaves time for weekly practice in basic skills (which I think may have been one of Milgram's (and well sourced) criticisms).  Of course that gets back to how schools and teachers approach standards. Do they hyper-focus on the standards alone or do they use them as a guide for providing a well-rounded education?  It's hard to tell if CC makes this preexisting problem worse or better. 

 

Of course, I may be attributing some of the positives I've seen in my DC's education to CC when they are better attributed to the quality of teaching, strong administration, strong curriculum, engaged students...and all that good stuff. This is the other side of the coin to what I had been saying about thinking a lot of the criticism of CC seemed to be about other issues that don't relate all that well to CC. What good that may come from CC will ultimately come from the teachers and students applying the standards well. 


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#443 of 482 Old 01-25-2014, 12:44 PM
 
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Apologies for posting something I have not read/watched in entirety but I found this video of Dr. James Milgram. He really made a name for himself when he chose to not endorse CC but few sites actually link to anything more about him. http://vimeo.com/78006951

 

I watched the speech but not all the questions at the end. It was interesting and I'm glad you linked it. I agree with a lot of what he says -- Common core standards don't prepare kids for STEM fields. I don't agree with his conclusion, however, that CC are inadequate because of that. CC is supposed to be what ALL kids know to graduate from highschool, and we don't need all grads to be prepared for STEM fields.  I think that it would be ideal for *more* kids to be prepared, and I think it is possible (but not proven) that CC *might* raise math achievement in segments of the population that currently don't do well. As it is, our brightest students attending our best schools *can* be prepared if they choose. What I would like to see is our brightest students attending our weakest schools to also have the way paved for them to be prepared. He went over stats on the percentage of urban high schools that offer calculus compared to suburban and it is just sad. We need to do a better job of making sure that students in poverty who are math bright have a solid education the whole way through so they are ready for calculus in highschool. And then we need to make sure it is offered with qualified teachers. (but part of that is we need to quit beating up teachers who choose to work with populations who don't test as well).

 

One of the double wammies about students in poverty not having a solid education in math at the end of highschool is that in college, only courses that count toward the degree can be taken by students receiving financial aid. So a young adult whose parents have money can pay for a remedial math course at a community college, but that avenue isn't open to students who MUST have financial aid.

 

But, I don't think that all students are capable of higher math. I think that someone with an IQ of 80 should be able to graduate from highschool, even though they don't have what it takes to be an engineer or computer programmer.


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#444 of 482 Old 01-28-2014, 01:10 PM
 
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Thought this story on NPR this morning was relevant to this thread:

 

http://www.npr.org/2014/01/28/267488648/backlash-grows-against-common-core-education-standards

 

Quote:

Supporters of the new Common Core education standards adopted by 45 states say the standards hold American students to much higher expectations, and move curriculum away from a bubble-test culture that encourages test preparation over deeper learning.


But there's growing backlash to Common Core, and conservatives and liberals increasingly are voicing similar concerns: that the standards take a one-size-fits-all approach, create a de facto national curriculum, put too much emphasis on standardized tests and undermine teacher autonomy.

more at 

http://www.npr.org/2014/01/28/267488648/backlash-grows-against-common-core-education-standards


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#445 of 482 Old 01-28-2014, 02:02 PM
 
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I've been following this discussion for weeks now.  I homeschool, so I'm not commenting specifically though I have my opinions.

 

But:

 

Quote:
 down right cofangled

 

I love this and have no idea what it means, but I suspect I have been down right cofangled before.... :p  ..... no offense

intended.

 

ETA:  "Confangled?"  That's a new one for me, and wow, incredibly useful word indeed.

 

Onward!  :lurk 


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#446 of 482 Old 01-29-2014, 07:22 PM
 
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Subbing. We have common core here and I think it moves to fast

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#447 of 482 Old 02-02-2014, 06:01 PM
 
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I just watched this and it is very telling. I have bought The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America and The Leipzing Connection; they will arrive sometime this month. I watched this before the Super Bowl of all things and it does take some time to watch but she is basically saying that since Ronald Reagan communism has been planned for America in the Department of Education and also that Ronald Reagan made a move to match our schools with the schools there. He signed an agreement with Gorbachav.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1wVB8gBkD8&list=PL714B00303E6C0801&feature=share
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#448 of 482 Old 02-03-2014, 05:18 AM
 
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And I just found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS3W3uDN0dM&feature=youtu.be and I'm trying to see how I can view it since it came out last fall. I emailed the White House this morning with some concerns and I plan on emailing them again tonight about a petition that I think is unfair. To get common core out of the US they want us to get 100,000 signatures by March with a petition. I think the petition is unfair and there is no way to do it. With the movie not coming out against the common core until April how can we reach enough people in time. It's not fair.
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#449 of 482 Old 02-03-2014, 06:04 AM
 
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Brooks, maybe it would be interesting for you to do some research on those petitions and their effectiveness. Any petition will not "get CC out of the US".  If signed, it may get an official response. This is not the sort of thing that if someone can get 10,000 online signatures in 30 days, they get their wish. And, we should all be VERY grateful for that. Also, according to this article, the number of signatures for a gov. petition was raised for all petitions, not just CC. This gets back, again, to the idea that all of these issues are connected, and that the angle you are working is very much a political one. I really think it's impossible to have a good grasp of CC its politics without having a well-rounded understanding of the related issues. 
 
I hope your custody trial is going well and that it's getting the attention it deserves. 
 
FYI, ya'll, I spoke to another educator I respect (someone high in the field on the national level, btw) and the response I got about CC was, "It's good, not progressive enough, but good."  

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#450 of 482 Old 02-03-2014, 06:30 AM
 
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Also, a funny side note as I do my homework for my art ed certification. We have some required reading on CC later in the term and one of the requirements are some work by Rativich. So, teachers in training are being given a somewhat balanced education regarding CC. I'll be sure to check back in the thread with more when we get to that part in the spring. 


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