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Old 01-02-2014, 05:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by slbrooks View Post

To me critical thinking means you check to see if something is true. So why don't you give it a shot and examine Kris Nielsen's book. I'm not happy with the attacks to me either. I am frustrated only because I think every parent in this country should read Kris Nielsen's book and join the cause to stop child abuse to come to our schools in the form of more tests and God knows what else! Common core is corporatism at it's finest and if we don't fight it now then it won't be able to be fought and America is destroyed. I was thinking at work today maybe they want to destroy America this way to keep the minorities out.

I don't need to read his book. You are welcome to send me a copy, but I won't buy one. I have read a lot on the subject and have talked with teacher, and administrator, friends I trust. I hate all the testing in the public schools but that has been going on for a really long time. I don't worry about corporations. Sorry, I just don't.
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Old 01-02-2014, 05:44 PM
 
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To me critical thinking means you check to see if something is true. So why don't you give it a shot and examine Kris Nielsen's book. I'm not happy with the attacks to me either. I am frustrated only because I think every parent in this country should read Kris Nielsen's book and join the cause to stop child abuse to come to our schools in the form of more tests and God knows what else! Common core is corporatism at it's finest and if we don't fight it now then it won't be able to be fought and America is destroyed. I was thinking at work today maybe they want to destroy America this way to keep the minorities out.


Critical thinking isn't just looking at one book or material that is one sided.  To me critical thinking is taking classes to educate yourself on the subject, reading a wide variety of material that is from both points of view, having conversations, reflection, and trying to prove that the hypothesis true, then turning that around and proving it isn't and analyzing your findings before making a final decision. 

 

Not many people in education are fond of standardized tests where I am from so I don't think CC and standardized testing are strongly linked.  I am not fond of standardized testing but I don't see it as child abuse and I don't see my dd having a significantly different education than the one I had.   

 

I don't think it this reform is a corporate thing, at least on the part of textbook manufacturers, since they had nothing out and since it was something professors in our state pushed for not legislatures I have a hard time seeing how it could be something corporations are pushing on us.  I also don't think it is part of an elaborate conspiracy to stop minorities from participating in society.  We have had many education reforms since education began in the US and many of these reforms stem from realizing our children aren't performing like their peers in other countries not from a desire to destroy America.  Some if these reforms have been a failure and some have been a success.  I hope this one is a success but if it isn't I don't think it's going to be any more devastating than the other reforms in education. 

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Old 01-02-2014, 06:07 PM
 
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Did you read any of the materials I posted??? Specifically the one on the math and at the end it states how this is all corporate power! I'm a BIG picture person. I feel like I am not being heard and my questions are not getting addressed and I am desperate for this cause. I have no agenda here other than to protect my children and all children. Like a momma bear. I notice some say they don't want their kids to go to college. Is that really true cause I'm confused. What are we preparing our innocent children for???? I'm confused. What exactly is best for our children? Remember you are talking to someone also who is in a state that was among the top 10 in schools for the country in 2001. Corporations have already ruined our country...not scared of corporations? I do notice this is a .com as well. I thought it used to be an org but it was a while ago I got the magazine and belonged to the forum. Kris Nielsen is teaching now. I saw a presentation at my local library on common core and Long Island started the force to get it out of New York. I don't want to look at something that was forced on our states by corporations (Pearson in particular, Bill and Melinda Gates, Walmart, The Broad Foundation) and now is being indoctrined into our children. I am upset with the materials my child is learning in 3rd grade. There is nothing I can do to stop it because teachers are taught to teach this as scripted and teachers here in NY have been threatened with job loss. Last night a friend of mine told me that the Pearson organization released a video where the children were all in front of a computer with no teacher in the classroom! That is how they see education in the future...although I am not sure how they would enforce that because children would not do it without someone there to enforce it??? Other countries are ahead of us because they are using old US models. This is something my friend who is homeschooling her child posted on her facebook. Let's discuss:

http://www.upworthy.com/5-myths-about-our-schools-that-fall-apart-when-you-look-closer-6?g=2&c=ufb1
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:14 PM
 
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Common core is corporatism at it's finest and if we don't fight it now then it won't be able to be fought and America is destroyed. I was thinking at work today maybe they want to destroy America this way to keep the minorities out.

 

Hyperbole like "America will be destroyed" and "The Bluest Eye is pornography" really doesn't help your cause. I think if you want to have a thoughtful discussion about the drawbacks of Common Core then there are people here willing to listen, but when you spout stuff like this it makes it hard (at least for me) to listen to the rest of what you have to say.

 

I think I have a pretty interesting situation because before Common Core was implemented at my kid's school my dd1 had the same teacher my dd2 now has. I am not seeing much of a before and after difference at all. He was a great teacher then and he's a great teacher now. While I don't think many teachers like EOGs I really am not seeing a whole lot of difference in how he's teaching with regard to Common Core's effects on EOGs or any other aspect of his teaching. My dd2 loves her class this year. 

 

I don't think Common Core is going to be the savior of the American educational system, but I don't think it's going to ...DESTROY AMERICA..., either.


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Old 01-02-2014, 06:17 PM
 
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Oh and I heard a commercial in the car about how college is the best way to get ahead. What a hoot!!!
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:21 PM
 
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Beanma have you read the Bluest Eye? It really does have strong sexual content? I don't think I am exaggerating. Sorry I disagree.
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:25 PM
 
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I'm mostly concerned for our children. You do have loveable, joyous children at home right?
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:25 PM
 
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Did you read any of the materials I posted???

I did. This is not a conversation where no one is listening to you. To the contrary, I posted a few articles. One of which you said you couldn't read because of a "lie" in the first paragraph. The accusation about the "lie" was retracted by one of the authors in an article you linked. Later you linked to an article with "proof" of pornography in the CC that did not confirm that at all - in fact, it said the exact opposite. Honestly, a few times I read articles you linked I was kind of wondering if you had read your links. 

 

I agree with Beanma -- you will find A LOT of commonality with members here. Corporate America -- heck yes, I'm scared!  

 

But, again, this is a political game. Take the ills of society and then blame them all on whatever it is that you don't like and hope that folks will go along with you. 


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Old 01-02-2014, 06:30 PM
 
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Again, controversies being drummed up by those opposed to CC are nothing new: http://www.nypl.org/blog/2013/09/09/banned-book-list


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Old 01-02-2014, 06:31 PM
 
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I've seen this before and don't disagree with much in it. It supports my claim above the the disadvantaged children in the US are further disadvantaged within the US educational system (the US ranks near the bottom in terms of giving poor kids equal access to educational materials, and is one of only 4 countries studied where disadvantaged students actually have a higher student-to-teacher ratio). But I don't see how it supports your claim that the problem is Common Core, or the corporatization of education.

 

Miranda


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Old 01-02-2014, 06:31 PM
 
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Did you read any of the materials I posted??? Specifically the one on the math and at the end it states how this is all corporate power! I'm a BIG picture person. I feel like I am not being heard and my questions are not getting addressed and I am desperate for this cause. I have no agenda here other than to protect my children and all children. Like a momma bear. I notice some say they don't want their kids to go to college. Is that really true cause I'm confused. What are we preparing our innocent children for???? I'm confused. What exactly is best for our children? Remember you are talking to someone also who is in a state that was among the top 10 in schools for the country in 2001. Corporations have already ruined our country...not scared of corporations? I do notice this is a .com as well. I thought it used to be an org but it was a while ago I got the magazine and belonged to the forum. Kris Nielsen is teaching now. I saw a presentation at my local library on common core and Long Island started the force to get it out of New York. I don't want to look at something that was forced on our states by corporations (Pearson in particular, Bill and Melinda Gates, Walmart, The Broad Foundation) and now is being indoctrined into our children. I am upset with the materials my child is learning in 3rd grade. There is nothing I can do to stop it because teachers are taught to teach this as scripted and teachers here in NY have been threatened with job loss. Last night a friend of mine told me that the Pearson organization released a video where the children were all in front of a computer with no teacher in the classroom! That is how they see education in the future...although I am not sure how they would enforce that because children would not do it without someone there to enforce it??? Other countries are ahead of us because they are using old US models. This is something my friend who is homeschooling her child posted on her facebook. Let's discuss:

http://www.upworthy.com/5-myths-about-our-schools-that-fall-apart-when-you-look-closer-6?g=2&c=ufb1

The CC DOES NOT have to mean scripted teaching. Neither of my children's teachers follow a script and, except for math, don't use textbooks.

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I'm mostly concerned for our children. You do have loveable, joyous children at home right?
My lovable, joyous, children LOVE going to school. Their curriculums are a MUCH less scripted than the basal teaching I did when I started teaching in 1990.
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:34 PM
 
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You just had me crying. I admit I'm not the smartest person in the world but really why attack me so harshly. Read a book. Kris has written 2 and if you can find any other books against the common core let me know. I am scared by the lack of concern for the actual children. I just don't see this and I thought this was a parenting board. I guess I came to the wrong place. Sorry I bothered your perfect little worlds.
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:38 PM
 
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Read a book. Kris has written 2 and if you can find any other books against the common core let me know.

Why are you only willing to look at books that are *against* Common Core?  Critical thinking includes examining evidence from all sides.

 

I have a kid.  She goes to school.  Common Core hasn't been a problem.


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Old 01-02-2014, 06:40 PM
 
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I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't see anyone attacking you. All of us care about our children. I'm sorry your kids are so stressed out. I just don't see that in our schools.
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:52 PM
 
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You just had me crying. I admit I'm not the smartest person in the world but really why attack me so harshly. Read a book. Kris has written 2 and if you can find any other books against the common core let me know. I am scared by the lack of concern for the actual children. I just don't see this and I thought this was a parenting board. I guess I came to the wrong place. Sorry I bothered your perfect little worlds.

I'm sorry you are hurt. I can explain that your posting style can feel sort of accusatory and some of the things you say sort of beg for a response. I think that maybe seeking out groups that support anti-CC and really focusing there can give the false impression that that's the only conclusion that a caring, thoughtful, critical thinker can make - or at least that is the impression that comes across. 

 

From where I sit we have a lot in common: 

 

+ Concern for children and education

+ Concern over standardized testing

+ Concern for how educational changes impact children with special needs 

+ Concern for having a country and educational system that is welcoming to immigrants 

+ Worry over corporate influence in politics (and education) 

+ Belief in individuated education 

 

So much there that we can agree on. I don't agree with putting all of the above on CC and I don't agree that schools were perfect before but on the subject of education there is is a lot of common ground. 


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Old 01-02-2014, 07:02 PM
 
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Beanma have you read the Bluest Eye? It really does have strong sexual content? I don't think I am exaggerating. Sorry I disagree.

 

Sexual content and pornography are two very different things. Many books have sexual content, but that doesn't make them pornography. As a rule, pornographic materials do not win the Nobel Prize for literature.


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Old 01-02-2014, 07:06 PM
 
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Some would call it pornography. I was being nice.
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Old 01-02-2014, 07:09 PM
 
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Pornography is material that has no value apart from sexual content.  Toni Morrison has won the Nobel Prize.  It is incorrect to assume her work has no value other than sexual content and therefore incorrect to label it "pornography".


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Old 01-02-2014, 07:13 PM
 
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I've never read that novel. I'll have to check it out.
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Old 01-02-2014, 07:17 PM
 
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slbrooks, I know that Common Core is a big controversy in New York, and I know that there is an anti-Common Core organization nationwide, but I think what you're seeing here is that it is not necessarily as controversial throughout the rest of the country as it is in New York. 

 

I do agree it is important to be involved in your child's education and be aware of what they're learning and the teaching methodology used.  And it's also important to advocate for what you feel is best. I just don't see Common Core as a problem here in my district. 


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Old 01-02-2014, 07:17 PM
 
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P.S.  If you feel so strongly about the book, you can request an alternative assignment for your child.  Almost all schools will accommodate those requests.


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Old 01-02-2014, 07:37 PM
 
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I just wanted to correct myself. Toni Morrison, herself, rather than that specific book, won the Nobel Prize for literature. The Prize was for her body of work to date  which included The Bluest Eye.

 

Quote: Toni Morrison - Nobelprize.org
 The Nobel Prize in Literature 1993 was awarded to Toni Morrison "who in novels characterized by visionary force and poetic import, gives life to an essential aspect of American reality".

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Old 01-02-2014, 08:40 PM
 
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I don't have strong feelings either way about Common Core. In sitting in PTA meetings and listening to what our principal has to say about it, however, I do have a logistical concern. He said that our usual multiple choice standardized test (the STAR test) won't be given anymore -- apparently our school is piloting a new, short answer-style test instead, which will be administered on the computer.

That's all well and good (although I do wonder how the tests will be scored -- it seems like it'd take many people many hours to read and evaluate short answers), but my 4th grade DS has never been given any formal keyboarding instruction in school, so entering even short answers will take him a loooong time, and I worry that that could artificially lower his score.

I brought that up to the principal, and he said that there is a typing program in the computer lab, but they only go once a week -- not nearly enough to become proficient by year'a end. I've started supplementing with 10 minutes a day of Dance Mat Typing at home, but not all parents will. It just seems like keyboarding should be an integral part of the curriculum if tests are going to be computerized.

Anyway, that's my concern so far -- do any of the educators in this thread have some insight about how typing skills (or lack thereof) could affect test taking with the CC test style?

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Old 01-02-2014, 10:34 PM
 
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@limabean My understanding is that, yes, even the 3rd graders will need to type their responses and "essay".  In the link I posted upthread, you can look at the 3rd grade performance task.  That took me aback when I first heard it.  My kindergartener has no experience on the computer.  I'm putting a lot of faith in her teachers' abilities to teach her to type by 3rd grade!  So far this year, however, I don't think they've done anything with computers.

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Old 01-02-2014, 11:04 PM
 
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 my 4th grade DS has never been given any formal keyboarding instruction in school, so entering even short answers will take him a loooong time, and I worry that that could artificially lower his score.

I brought that up to the principal, and he said that there is a typing program in the computer lab, but they only go once a week

 

It is a concern. Washington Post did an article about it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/elementary-students-learn-keyboard-typing-ahead-of-new-common-core-tests/2013/10/13/d329ba66-3289-11e3-9c68-1cf643210300_story.html

 

Many schools are now starting typing instruction in 2nd grade.

 

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If your school is not meeting your child's needs, it's not Common Core's fault. 

 

Common core has a lot of unintended consequences. It's nice for you that you aren't experiencing them, but  it is effecting how things are done in MANY places around the country and for MANY groups of students in ways that are neither positive or helpful.

 

This thing is SO MASSIVE few people really understand what all it entails, like the poster who wants to argue with me about highschool math because she reviewed

k-8 math. (I really don't see the point of debating my kids' experience, or the quality of the text book sitting in my dinning room).

 

Your quote above completely discounts the negative impact that common core is having. While I'm not trashing common core, I can see that there are negatives. Not because of any political views, but because I work with at risk students.

 

The common core standards state that ALL students should be held to the same standard and be taught the same curriculum. Here is a quote directly from common core:

 

Some students with the most significant cognitive disabilities will require substantial supports and accommodations to have meaningful access to certain standards in both instruction and assessment, based on their communication and academic needs. These supports and accommodations should ensure that students receive access to multiple means of learning and opportunities to demonstrate knowledge, but retain the rigor and high expectations of the Common Core State Standards

 

http://www.corestandards.org/assets/application-to-students-with-disabilities.pdf

 

This was obviously not written by a group of people who have ANY experience with children with even MINOR cognitive disabilities.

 

Common core also states that students learning English should be held to the same high standards (in spite of not actually knowing English)

http://www.corestandards.org/assets/application-for-english-learners.pdf

 

Honestly, parts of common core are so wacked out, they're just stupid. It's lovely that your child isn't having any negative consequences from this, but I suggesting learning more about what common core requires before defending it across the line.


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Old 01-03-2014, 04:54 AM
 
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Thank you again Linda on the move. I have pretty much left the topic or clocked out as they say!!! I think there is a lot of misinformation about common core and it's long-term effect planned for our children. The reason I don't read books supporting common core is because I have already done the thinking and have decided to not support it and want it completely out of my good New York Schools. I went to a presentation at my local library (as I think I've mentioned) against common core and how it is all done because of Pearson and corporations. Also if you can find a decent book explaining common core in English that is written by someone professional let me know! So far when I look at amazon I just see what they are pushing on poor teachers. I do not see a book like Kris Nielsen's lets say. More people need to write books like his...he actually cares about the children. That is what I care about. I have also looked at the curriculum and at first saw nothing wrong with it but now when I go back and look I see things wrong with it. Like I know the UN is involved so I see some of that influence in the books they have chosen for my 3rd grader to read. I'm done I probably said more than I wanted to.
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:02 AM
 
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Oh and I am not political at all...I don't even vote although I will be this year. I simply care about children. Linda mentioned political views...my only political view is that I'm against common core. Just wanted to clarify....someone tried to tell me I was from the right on a board recently and it was funny. I was like I'm a person I'm not from the right!!!!
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:31 AM
 
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It is a concern. Washington Post did an article about it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/elementary-students-learn-keyboard-typing-ahead-of-new-common-core-tests/2013/10/13/d329ba66-3289-11e3-9c68-1cf643210300_story.html

Many schools are now starting typing instruction in 2nd grade.

Interesting article, thanks Linda.

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Originally Posted by slbrooks View Post

Oh and I am not political at all...I don't even vote although I will be this year. I simply care about children. Linda mentioned political views...my only political view is that I'm against common core. Just wanted to clarify....someone tried to tell me I was from the right on a board recently and it was funny. I was like I'm a person I'm not from the right!!!!

I couldn't really tell what/if any political bias you have but you should know that some of the links you provided had a strong Tea Party vibe and many linked directly to right-wing sites. Often times these sites will have an "About" section and from there you can get a pretty good idea of where they're coming from. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by limabean View Post

Anyway, that's my concern so far -- do any of the educators in this thread have some insight about how typing skills (or lack thereof) could affect test taking with the CC test style?

I'll comment that computer skills is something that I'd like to see standardized (though admitting that I may not know what a can of worms that could be) if only to be sure that kids are taught basic computer skills before they are expected to use a computer for school. This was not the case for my DC. OTOH, use of the computer did not seem especially developmental for my child until she was in 6th grade. On top of whether it is even developmentally appropriate for kids to learn to type in elementary school...this is a resource that I don't think many schools in my town have. Even if they could provide computers -- shiny new computers, I imagine, would create a security nightmare for schools. 

 

Our city is unique (I think) in the large number of charter, magnet and innovative schools we have. How these schools use money is confusing to me but I think the "top down" (to use a phrase popular in the anti-CC articles) could create a problem for schools that use their money in unconventional ways. I don't know how this will play out in our city but I can ask around. 

 

ETA: I'm a real big fan of the small school model. I have seen it work well to address a lot of the concerns posted on this thread just by virtue of the size of the school. But, the small school model requires admins to use money in creative ways and it means that schools go without for a lot of things (like computers!). 


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Old 01-03-2014, 06:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by slbrooks View Post

Thank you again Linda on the move. I have pretty much left the topic or clocked out as they say!!! I think there is a lot of misinformation about common core and it's long-term effect planned for our children. The reason I don't read books supporting common core is because I have already done the thinking and have decided to not support it and want it completely out of my good New York Schools. I went to a presentation at my local library (as I think I've mentioned) against common core and how it is all done because of Pearson and corporations. Also if you can find a decent book explaining common core in English that is written by someone professional let me know! So far when I look at amazon I just see what they are pushing on poor teachers. I do not see a book like Kris Nielsen's lets say. More people need to write books like his...he actually cares about the children. That is what I care about. I have also looked at the curriculum and at first saw nothing wrong with it but now when I go back and look I see things wrong with it. Like I know the UN is involved so I see some of that influence in the books they have chosen for my 3rd grader to read. I'm done I probably said more than I wanted to.

What books are your 3rd grader reading that concern you? I'm sincerely curious since I have a third grader. I haven't seen anything that concerns me in the slightest.
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