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#181 of 482 Old 01-03-2014, 06:11 AM
 
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Also if you can find a decent book explaining common core in English that is written by someone professional let me know! So far when I look at amazon I just see what they are pushing on poor teachers.

http://www.amazon.com/Common-Core-Trojan-Education-Reform/dp/1467549657

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1492122831

 

ETA: and another: http://www.amazon.com/The-Story-Killers-Common-Sense-Against-Common/dp/1493623370

 

I imagine there are a lot of books that you would like (and hundreds of websites). 

 

The thing is that the internet is a crazy place. If you're not aware Mothering is a "Natural Family Living" website with support of "Attachment Parenting". Both of these things tend to exist to some extent on the fringe of mainstream lifestyle and parenting choices. Few of us are  unfamiliar with the idea of choosing things outside of the mainstream and in going down that road for many other things (how we birth, how we feed our families, how we educate our kids, how we make choices about medicine, and etc.) we know that at any given time we can find a large body of work to support whatever it is we would like to believe. 

 

For many of us, the idea that there can be this large body of work and many people we have enormous respect for that endorse something we just don't agree with is nothing new. 

 

I, myself, have come full-circle with public education. From wanting to be a teacher as young person, to having a child and thinking there was NO WAY public school could ever come close to the ideal I have for my child, to realizing there was a lot to public education that I underestimated, to deciding once again that I would like to be an educator (I am getting my certificate in art ed currently). 


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#182 of 482 Old 01-03-2014, 06:31 AM
 
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Okay well there is nothing wrong with a tea party...I can go with that. I've heard the media shoots them down of course though. I really have no political agenda and am just concerned that they can quickly implement something like that before they even have a curriculum; they had to get all states on board first; and yet it's going to take years of educating parents to break this down! It's scary. It's like obamacare. I am not sure that is good for our country but hey if it gets people who have never had healthcare before healthcare than that is okay. I don't know. That's another issue. I will state though that this country is in a financial crisis. Maybe being run by corporations is the goal then because they can buy there way in. The 3rd grade books get into the UN and the UN model. I'd have to see and tell you the problem. I have to go to work and do not have the time now.
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#183 of 482 Old 01-03-2014, 06:51 AM
 
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I will state though that this country is in a financial crisis. Maybe being run by corporations is the goal then because they can buy there way in.  

If this is your core issue, there is LOTS written on this subject. The Tea Party claims to in part focus on the influence of corporations and finance on politics. Now, money and politics is an issue for both the Democrats and Republicans but the TP is currently operating largely under the umbrella of the Republican party, which is not better than, and is arguably worse in this regard, than the Dems.  How's that for a political can of worms!  

 

I think to examine whether or not the material and perspectives you're reading are political is an important part of the process. To some extent, it probably all is...but when you are reading about "Christian family values" in regard to a  book that has been read by public schools for years prior to CC - you have to wonder what's going on here. 

 

I don't love the HP but I loved the title of this article, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-p-chavous/misplaced-furor-in-the-ba_b_3159050.html  

 

I still haven't spoken with any of my DC's teachers about this thread but I wanted to share what sorts of things they share with the school community. I got this on my FB page from a teacher just now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFnMTHhKdkw&feature=share

 

:love


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#184 of 482 Old 01-03-2014, 07:33 AM
 
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On top of whether it is even developmentally appropriate for kids to learn to type in elementary school...this is a resource that I don't think many schools in my town have. Even if they could provide computers -- shiny new computers, I imagine, would create a security nightmare for schools. ...

 

Our city is unique (I think) in the large number of charter, magnet and innovative schools we have. How these schools use money is confusing to me but I think the "top down" (to use a phrase popular in the anti-CC articles) could create a problem for schools that use their money in unconventional ways. I don't know how this will play out in our city but I can ask around. 

 

The biggest financial expense of Common Core is hardware and bandwidth upgrades. This is an extremely difficult issue to find unbiased information on, though, because one side likes to look at the huge total numbers and freak out, and the other side likes to look at the per student expense of the testing (not including the upgrades or scoring) and they see a small number. I did find this article on NPR that seems balanced and fair:

http://stateimpact.npr.org/ohio/2013/03/21/rural-schools-struggle-to-prepare-for-common-cores-online-tests/

 

The cost of upgrades is what drove Georgia out of the common core pact, and it is expected to be a bigger issue in rural areas than urban.

 

It isn't an issue for the urban school where I work -- we have a brand new computer lab that can accommodate one class at a time, and we when do computerized testing (which we already do for grades 4 and 5), they just set a schedule and do one class at a time. All students, including K, ELL, and sped, use the computer lab for at least an hour a week.

 

I could make an argument that students from mid elementary and up should be learning to use computers and have access to internet resources, and be taught to look critically at information from the internet (a lot of monied suburban schools already do this, and a lot of middle class kids learn this information at home. Doing it at rural and urban schools would help level the playing field for those kids down the line). I think that could be a good thing that comes out of common core. None the less, I do see how other people have other values and concerns and don't care for being told what is important.

 

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What books are your 3rd grader reading that concern you? I'm sincerely curious since I have a third grader. I haven't seen anything that concerns me in the slightest.

I'm curious too because I haven't had a problem with any of the reading material either at the school where I work or at the one my DD attends. I think the move towards more non-fiction is a positive one. At first I was shocked and annoyed by the emphasis on using video as another source for discussion/writing, but the more I thought about it, the more sense it made to me due to how the world has changed and how kids get information now.

 

 

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I, myself, have come full-circle with public education. From wanting to be a teacher as young person, to having a child and thinking there was NO WAY public school could ever come close to the ideal I have for my child, to realizing there was a lot to public education that I underestimated, to deciding once again that I would like to be an educator (I am getting my certificate in art ed currently). 

 

Oh, we have so much in common! I wasn't interested in education when I was younger, so that's different, but I homeschooled  my kids until they were 10 and 12. They attended public school briefly, and then they attended a private progressive school. Now one is in a traditional public highschool and the other is in college and I.....

 

....am working on my certification to teach special education while working with special needs kids at a Title I school. Now that my own kids are pretty much done being raised (and have turned out to be awesome as most AP, GD, etc kids do) I find that I love being involved in public education and am deeply impressed with most of the staff and administration. There is such a sense of mission about reaching children and helping them have real choices in their lives.

 

Public education is complicated, but when my kids were small I bought too much into the radical anti-public school side of things without really finding out what was going on. There is both good and bad, it's complicated.

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but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#185 of 482 Old 01-03-2014, 07:56 AM
 
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The biggest financial expense of Common Core is hardware and bandwidth upgrades. 

 

Interesting. My DC's k-5 has like 3 ancient computers for students to use and no room in the facility for a computer lab even if they wanted one. I'll ask about this - it's a snow day so the odds of getting someone on the phone are pretty good. My DC's current school has a computer lab and the students already to quite a bit of work for math, reading, science, technology and etc. on computers. I agree with you quite a bit that computers have a great capacity to level the playing field.  

 

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Oh, we have so much in common! 

I have long thought this was the case. :love  Even down to our adventures in finding school options that are a good fit for our kids. Our 6th grader has attended 6 schools (most between pre-k to finding the right elementary). 

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Public education is complicated, but when my kids were small I bought too much into the radical anti-public school side of things without really finding out what was going on. There is both good and bad, it's complicated.

 

Yep!  


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#186 of 482 Old 01-03-2014, 08:14 AM
 
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My son's elementary school has about four desktops per classroom and a few class sets of netbook-type computers that are stored on carts. I think they have computer lab once a week. The library also has a bank of computers. I think they'll use the netbooks for online testing since they have more of them and are better-sized for little hands. DS is a hunt and pecker and will have trouble with a short-answer type of computerized test. To be honest, I don't care how he does on the end of grade tests. He struggles in school and I want him to reach his full potential but not be stressed out. He is not a tester, so he is not likely to do well, even if he knows the material.

DD's charter school classroom has 2 or 3 desktop computers but I don't know if they use them. The school does have laptops that the older classes use, but I don't know the frequency.
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#187 of 482 Old 01-03-2014, 08:35 AM
 
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To be honest, I don't care how he does on the end of grade tests. He struggles in school and I want him to reach his full potential but not be stressed out.  

This was us for a while. And, still, I will continue to talk about testing (of all kinds) to my DC about it being a tool for evaluating education (although I guess that when they're older  testing can also be a valuable learning tool as well).  I was surprised how clear my DC's previous teachers were about standardized testing and how the tests are an evaluation of the teachers. My DC understood this very well.

 

But, (and I don't know how this is for other cities) the tests end up being very important to kids in my city in middle school because of the process of selecting a middle school here and the large number of merit based programs and the prevalence of tracked programs within schools.  So, it becomes this complicated thing. 


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Don't forget, at the high school level, these tests are a graduation requirement.  It's one thing not to stress too much about them at lower grades, but for me, as a teacher of mostly seniors (I mentioned my one class of 10th graders earlier) they are a very big deal.  There is still a path by which to graduate when a student does not pass the test, but there's only their senior year during which to accomplish that.

 

Perhaps things are different in other states, but in Oregon the 11th grade assessments in reading, writing and math are required for graduating.  Our current standard is much lower, so our graduation rates are sure to drop for a time.

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But, (and I don't know how this is for other cities) the tests end up being very important to kids in my city in middle school because of the process of selecting a middle school here and the large number of merit based programs and the prevalence of tracked programs within schools.  So, it becomes this complicated thing. 

 

In my state, scores on standardized impact the ability to school to stay under local control. Schools that consistently score too low are taken over by the state and are no lower run by the district. Because of this, principals have been fired and districts have chosen to close some schools (few families want their local school to close, even if it does get low scores). 

 

And because of all this, the scores influence the decision to retain children.

 

(its just another unintended consequence)

 

I see not caring about the test scores as a privilege of being middle or upper or class. The less money a family has, the more low scores impact them.


but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#190 of 482 Old 01-03-2014, 10:28 AM
 
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LotM I didn't see any threads where someone was arguing with you about the quality of your children's textbooks. Maybe you are thinking of another thread.

I think you raise a good point about the possible downside for students ESL and Special Education programs. Disproportionate representation of minority, poor, and ELL students is a large part of the concern causing the push for the same standards across the board but I think it makes more sense to look for solutions to this that don't hurt students who truly need the services. I worry a lot about the impact of the new tests on students in ESL and special education because there aren't a lot of accommodations planned, even simple ones like being allowed to hear the test questions read aloud (which was an option for all children on the old test).

I really think this system is being rushed and we very we could see a crash and burn similar to other reform movements in education. I hope not because the standards in my state were abysmal but it is definitely possible, especially if the quality of education continues going down in areas where it used to be higher.
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#191 of 482 Old 01-03-2014, 03:24 PM
 
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This is the problem with the common core. This whole paragraph which I found on engageNY.org bothers me. What are we creating robots?

"The Common Core State Standards are important because they will help all children – no matter who they are – learn the same skills. They create clear expectations for what your child should know and be able to do in key areas: reading, writing, speaking and listening, language and mathematics. If you know what these expectations are, then you can work with the teacher and help your child prepare."

I think I just had a general problem with the books. I didn't understand the need for all the frog books. The problem I see is that when I was in school in the '80s we had social studies and science. I am not seeing that?

The other problem that is big is the data mining of the children. They want to collect data on our children. This frightens and upsets a lot of people. They are collecting data on discipline that could follow the kid for years! Also will they be doing tests that focus on the kids skills so they get lumped into one career path? Yes I took tests on my career readiness or what have you and did pretty fair on those tests and I remember it telling me where I fit in. It was good but I am worried that kids won't have the choices that we had in the mid-1990s. I hope that a child can fight the system and succeed on their own work/merit as I did. I worry because the little kids the ones in kindergarten through 3rd grade are feeling dumb because of the tests.
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#192 of 482 Old 01-03-2014, 03:34 PM
 
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Frog books? Are they studying frogs? My DD's school is project-based and they have been doing a project on rocks for about ten weeks and it's still going on. The class next door (combination first and second grade) did a nine week study of frogs.

If your DD was reading about the UN, that's part of social studies. I would be pissed if my kids weren't learning science and social studies. That would be a battle that I choose to take on. Just like if either child didn't have an arts program.
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#193 of 482 Old 01-03-2014, 03:46 PM
 
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Just like if either child didn't have an arts program.

:love  ----> Future art teacher loves this!  


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#194 of 482 Old 01-03-2014, 03:52 PM
 
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Common Core has nothing to do with collecting data on discipline.  Nor does Common Core force kids into career paths.


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#195 of 482 Old 01-03-2014, 04:03 PM
 
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Thank you for recommending 2 books against the common core. I'm looking into them right now. The one is too expensive but don't know about the other. I just wish these books would tell me what to do about the problem. I have not read the books my daughter is getting constructed on because they are too expensive and I make a poor living even though college educated with a bachelors of science in health information and informatics. I know she did at least 4 or 5 just on frogs.
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This site is free and seems to be well cited: http://excelined.org/common-core-toolkit/information-common-misconceptions/


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I'm sure your school would allow you to read the books your daughter is studying.  Have you asked?


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#198 of 482 Old 01-03-2014, 04:10 PM
 
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I think my dd did the thing on rocks too! She's past that. What concerned me was why was she required to read material on a 6th grade reading level as her teacher told me in 3rd grade?
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love.gif   ----> Future art teacher loves this!  

DS's public school has a terrific art teacher. Which is great because he loves to draw and construct. DD's charter school has an integrated arts program and they do amazing things in the art and music room. Plus, they get nine weeks of each of the following for PE: Cooperative Games, Yoga, Dance, and Akido. It's an urban charter and finally got state permission to add lottery preference for families eligible for free and reduced lunch. They were at 3%, are AG 15% for this year and will be up to 40% in the next three years.
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We don't know what common core is leading to and on January 15th they are threatening to upload data on our kids to a imbloom cloud! We are very upset and trying to stop it. Some have tried to opt out but are not being able to. Trying to pass something so that they cannot do this without parents permission. Don't know where common core is headed. It kind of snuck in on us we New Yorkers are saying.
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My daughter loves her art class too, and she's at a public magnet school in a Common Core state (I'm in NC as well!).

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We don't know what common core is leading to and on January 15th they are threatening to upload data on our kids to a imbloom cloud! We are very upset and trying to stop it. Some have tried to opt out but are not being able to. Trying to pass something so that they cannot do this without parents permission. Don't know where common core is headed. It kind of snuck in on us we New Yorkers are saying.

 

inBloom is not part of Common Core.  Many states participate in Common Core and have opted out of inBloom.


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#203 of 482 Old 01-03-2014, 04:25 PM
 
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I don't need to read daughter's books. I am concerned that an 8 year old does not know what a slave is though. I was teasing her and used the word slave and she asked me what it meant. I actually did not want to explain it to her so I said nevermind!!!!
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I'm trying to use the website you recommended but I can't. I did see the blatant lie in the beginning though about it not being federally started I was trying to use it anyway but the links do not seem to work when I click.
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Yes Jeb Bush...he is another proponent of the common core. No wonder the web site is how it is. I personally feel really sorry for whoever Phyllis Schlafty is because if you guys made me cry I would be very upset to see my name on a web site that some other organization started!!!! Talk about a libel suit. Ugh!
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Truth is an absolute defense against libel.  Are you claiming Schafly is being misquoted?  A public figure should expect that her words will become fodder for discussion.


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This site is free and seems to be well cited: http://excelined.org/common-core-toolkit/information-common-misconceptions/
Thanks for this link. I found it really informative.
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#208 of 482 Old 01-03-2014, 04:46 PM
 
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Actually I think I just became Phyllis's new best friend!!!!! I liked her on facebook and now I'm checking out her books. This is what I've been saying what she says!! This is what they are saying in New York folks!!!
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#209 of 482 Old 01-03-2014, 04:50 PM
 
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This is probably why people think you're right-wing conservative.  Phyllis Schafly campaigned against the Equal Rights Amendment and is quite vocally anti-feminist.


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Actually her books don't look interesting. Oh well. I'm a democrat in reality...thought I'd surprise you guys with that one!!!
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