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#1 of 96 Old 12-22-2006, 02:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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DD is in the 8th grade. When they come back from vacation the school wants to do an abstinence only class. The kids would also see a play or movie or something done by other teens about the "dangers" of teenage sex.

My initial reaction to this is no freaking way! I don't want the morality police preaching to my children. (BTW this a "free" government sponsored program.) I also feel it is wrong to teach children that sex is dangerous. And while I want my daughter to wait for someone special and not "sleep around" like some of my friends, I don't feel she should have to wait until she is "married." As a matter of fact, I 100% don't agree with waiting until you are married unless it is what the person wants to do.

Now if they were teaching about STDs and how to prevent them "realistically" I would be all for it, but abstinence is NOT the only way! Not teaching children/kids about realistic options is just wrong.

So what would you do? Would you sign the papers and let your child go to this class or would you say no way??

And to think, most parents WANT their children to abstain and not be taught "real" sex ed in school.
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#2 of 96 Old 12-22-2006, 02:47 AM
 
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Does your daughter want to attend the class? I'd ask her for her opinion.

Personally, I would be so curious about how they are going to present the class that I would want to go. How can you pull off that class without turning off the kids...can it be done??

If my child wanted to attend the class, I would let her and *ALSO* make sure I was giving her my version of sex ed. Girls need to have as much truthful information as possible, the honest pros and cons of all the options. Don't rely on the school to get the right info to your daughter.

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#3 of 96 Old 12-22-2006, 03:52 AM
 
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I would let the school know my opinion. If you decide to not let her go, I wouldn't want them to misinterpret that to mean that you want no sex ed at all. Around here they offer a screening for parents. Will you be able to check it out? I'd be fascinated to hear how they present it.
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#4 of 96 Old 12-22-2006, 03:59 AM
 
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Not my kid! I think abstinance only classes are dangerous.
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#5 of 96 Old 12-22-2006, 08:51 AM
 
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If she wants to go, it might make for a very interesting dialogue between the two of you in which you share an alternate view with her and induce critical thinking in her, such as 'based on what you heard do you think this approach is realistic?' 'what would a boy or girl do if this is what they were taught and then they find themselves in a situation where they no longer agree (literally in the heat of the moment!)?' I usually am not worried about my children hearing alternate viewpoints as long as we can still have a dialogue about it afterwards.

 
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#6 of 96 Old 12-22-2006, 12:09 PM
 
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If she wants to go, it might make for a very interesting dialogue between the two of you in which you share an alternate view with her and induce critical thinking in her, such as 'based on what you heard do you think this approach is realistic?' 'what would a boy or girl do if this is what they were taught and then they find themselves in a situation where they no longer agree (literally in the heat of the moment!)?' I usually am not worried about my children hearing alternate viewpoints as long as we can still have a dialogue about it afterwards.

That is how we are as well. There are plenty of things my dc will be exposed to that I do not agree with, or think highly of. What I want for them is to be exposed to a wide variety of things, and then be able to sit down and discuss everything, and develop critical thinking. I kind of want them to be exposed to things that dont mesh with our family culture, so that they can really figure out what they believe and why.
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#7 of 96 Old 01-02-2007, 02:23 AM
 
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I never let my children take any of those classes. I told them what I knew about sex and I had books for anything else they wanted to know. I was there for them when they wanted to talk.

And they did.
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#8 of 96 Old 01-02-2007, 02:39 PM
 
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If she wants to take it (probably b/c all her friends are), I'd say ok. but tell ehr you expect to discuss it with her if she does and begin talking to her about what you beleive now-if you have not already.

My DD asked me last year-in grade 3-WHY the school is not teachign the facts about sex b/c kids do not have it right, their parents are lying to them about it (then repeating what some kids said they are told), and some are doing it. Yes, my DD is very open and forward, the school teaches soemthing this year, what I do not know. You'd think I woulda called and ofund out by now!

BTW, I graduated from public high school in 1994-by 10th grade here you were required to passa course about sex, STD"s and how to properly use several forms of birth control. I do not remember parental permission being needed.
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#9 of 96 Old 01-02-2007, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The way you say grade three instead of third grade makes me think you are not in the US. If this is true then you do not have to deal with Bush and his cronies pushing their religious agenda on everyone else. They seem to have forgotten we have a separation of church and state.

I believe all federally funded sex ed in the US has been replaced with abstinence only programs. I mean Bush is now pushing his abstinence only to ANYONE who is not married and under the age of 30!!
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#10 of 96 Old 01-02-2007, 03:57 PM
 
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The way you say grade three instead of third grade makes me think you are not in the US.
I am in the USA. Not sure why I said grade 3, I do normally say 3rd grade!

DD is my oldest and I went to Catholic school until 10th grade, then 11th and 12th was public school (where I had to take the required 10th grade course). So I am new to these whacked out new rules Bush has started. In Catholic school we were of course taught abstinance BUT we were taught the basics too. By grade 8 I remember a teacher putting it bluntly to us girls after she saw what alot of the bioys were doing, saying, etc. and being aggressive. Her daughter was a teen Mom and she didn't want that for us. So she said if we decided to do it anyway, think about xyz, don't do it for these reasons only and so on.

I gotta call DD school about this now... I mean, sadly she has ages 9-12 (yes, some parents still allow kids to be held back) in her 4th grade class-they shoulda long learned about menstruation AT LEAST. I mean my DD knows via ME, but many are lost.
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#11 of 96 Old 01-02-2007, 05:48 PM
 
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I'm probably in the minority here, but personally I don't think that it should be the school's job to teach anything beyond basic anatomy and reproduction as it relates to life science. While I want my children to know everything there is to know about sexual health, I think that it is my job to teach them that. In much the same way that I don't understand why schools must have programs now that 'teach character' and also warn children of the dangers of drugs. It seems like because a small number of parents are not doing their jobs as well as they could be, the government thinks it has to do us a favor and provide all of this extra stuff that really should be taught at home. I know that for some children what they are told at school may be all that they get, and that is the reason that teachers are now having to teach not just basic school skills, but life skills as well. I really think that 'life skills' type of subjects should be taught by parents, at home. Are these always the easiest topics to talk about with our children? Probably not, but it's a very important part of parenting. When your child is trying to figure out many of the difficult choices that must be made in life, it seems like they should be made with the help of the adult who loves them most in life, not a stranger.
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#12 of 96 Old 01-02-2007, 05:58 PM
 
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I agree, but then I see how most parents do not talk to their kids about any of this. I think having it as an option (at the least) is ok. Like I said, my then 8yo DD repeated to me what was said on the playground. SCARY. Most kids were uninformed or being told blatant lies about the BASICS. (Pregnancy by mouth...yep. DD friend was told this. Guess which friend already has boyfriends too?!?!)

Having kids in public schools, I have to deprogram PLENTY. We are open and no topic is taboo with me (albeit soemtimes I cringe inside). And they listen, it was cute when met a girl at the playground and thought her 2 Moms are cool (it was actually mom and Grandma). She told them, they got a kick out of her openness and understanding, albeit a wrong assumption. Other assuming kids may have been mean-ykwim?

Point is if the gov't is gonna get involved, they need to be OPEN and well rounded, not one sided.
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#13 of 96 Old 01-02-2007, 07:20 PM
 
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not exactly an answer to your question but our local planned parenthood has 'growing up' classes offered with our library... one is for parents, one is for boys and one for girls...

if she wants to go to the class ok.... can you attend as well?? surely the school needs some 'chaperones' for this type of thing?? im seeing 100 giggly kids ...: : : : : : :

there are lots of different views on HEALTH education.... while i dont agree with what the school is teaching, its a great opportunity to discuss all types of views on this topic...
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#14 of 96 Old 01-02-2007, 07:34 PM
 
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I would give her the option.

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#15 of 96 Old 01-02-2007, 07:37 PM
 
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if my kid wanted to go for whatever reason, really doesn't matter, i'd let them.


Doesn't change the fact that I will be teaching and educating something completely different in my household.

The thing is, abstinance IS a course some people choose to take. More power to them. I won't limit my childs education to 'safe sex', I would also be educating them about the dangers of sex and promiscuity and if they wanted to take a structured class on abstinence with their classmates? More power to my kids.

But like I said, doesn't change what I will be teaching in my household.

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#16 of 96 Old 01-03-2007, 11:59 AM
 
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The thing is, abstinance IS a course some people choose to take. More power to them. I won't limit my childs education to 'safe sex', I would also be educating them about the dangers of sex and promiscuity and if they wanted to take a structured class on abstinence with their classmates? More power to my kids.
I want to clarify that the class I was required to take in high school did stress that the only way to be 100% protected was abstinance, not just safe sex. I felt it was very balanced for school. It was also coed and not uncomfortable.
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#17 of 96 Old 01-03-2007, 05:31 PM
 
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I used to substitute teach and after sitting in on one of these all day once, I would have a very hard time subjecting my children to this at any point. It was a joke, and the students knew it. One of the little "skits" they did basically emphasized that girls who have sex before marriage are damaged goods. I can describe it in more detail to you if you'd like but it was disturbing. It presented sex in such an ugly, diseased light. On the other hand, if she truly wants to go I would have a hard time saying no, because it's not like you want to make a power struggle out of something like this. G-d forbid she interpret it as you WANTING her to go out and have sex!

Now, obviously I am not thrilled about my teenage daughters going off and having sex (especially since they're still babies!). But the reality is that it may happen, and when it does they damn well better know the facts. Scare tactics don't work. They have shown that kids who go through abstinence only education have a much higher rate of teen pregnancy and STDs. I should also disclaim my bias at this moment to say that I volunteer for Planned Parenthood on the side. My high school had a very comprehensive sex ed course, and I didn't have sex until years later so it didn't convince me to give it ago and when I did...I did know exactly which precautions to take.

as much as I am politically opposed to these courses, and feel like they're irresponsible...the thing that would bother me the most is what I mentioned earlier. I really don't want my kids to be exposed to something that portrays sex as filthy and disgusting...and that class was also sexist. So that is what I have the hardest time with. If it was just a matter of fact class, that these are the diseases you can get, and this is what can happen if you get pg in high school, fine. But there is usually a much more insidious moral message behind it. Especially raising girls, I don't want them to think sex is gross and wrong...I want them to learn it can be a beautiful thing to do with your body...once you're about 35 or so.

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#18 of 96 Old 01-03-2007, 08:33 PM
 
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My DD asked me last year-in grade 3-WHY the school is not teachign the facts about sex b/c kids do not have it right, their parents are lying to them about it (then repeating what some kids said they are told), and some are doing it.
The kids in your DD's third grade class are having sex?!?!

Please tell me I'm misunderstanding your post : .
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#19 of 96 Old 01-03-2007, 08:59 PM
 
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I'm probably in the minority here, but personally I don't think that it should be the school's job to teach anything beyond basic anatomy and reproduction as it relates to life science.
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I used to substitute teach and after sitting in on one of these all day once, I would have a very hard time subjecting my children to this at any point. It was a joke, and the students knew it.
ITA
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#20 of 96 Old 01-03-2007, 11:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That is exactly why I don't want her to go!!

Although when I asked her about it this evening she said they did the skits before vacation. (I was under the impression they were going to do it afterwards.) So I asked her why she was allowed to go if I had not signed the form. She scratched her head and said she didn't know, maybe they were going to do other skits and that is what the permission slip was for.
But what they did see was stupid and her and her friend sat ontop of the bleachers and made fun of the whole thing.

Apparently they are also handing out these cards at school trying to get the kids to sign them saying they will not have sex until they are married!! WTF!! This is NOT the schools business. They are there to teach our children the FACTS they are NOT the morality police! I guess if I have time Friday I am going to have to go there and find out what is going on.

On the other hand, my DH thinks she SHOULD go because "you cannot intelligently argue against something unless you know exactly what it is the other side believes." Sigh.

Why do the schools even think they have the right to be pushing their morals (or is it the administrations moral.) on our children??
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#21 of 96 Old 01-04-2007, 02:42 AM
 
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Why do the schools even think they have the right to be pushing their morals (or is it the administrations moral.) on our children??
you know the answer to this one. Because of the current administration. It's free if they do this specific program, and the schools already have no money (hmmm...wonder where the money is going??), so they say yes to save $$. Some school districts have been smart about taking the money, and using it toward abstinence only sex ed but only up to a certain grade. That's what they've done in my city but it's only a matter of time before they get busted on it.

I'm so sorry she already went to the skit. That would make me mad as H-E double hockey sticks.

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#22 of 96 Old 01-04-2007, 09:29 AM
 
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Apparently they are also handing out these cards at school trying to get the kids to sign them saying they will not have sex until they are married!! WTF!! This is NOT the schools business. They are there to teach our children the FACTS they are NOT the morality police! I guess if I have time Friday I am going to have to go there and find out what is going on.
I would assume the kids have the option to sign these cards or not. She can opt out.

We did the same thing in high school with drinking and driving. We had cards that kids could sign pledging to not drink and drive. Noone was forced to sign the cards.

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Originally Posted by aniT
On the other hand, my DH thinks she SHOULD go because "you cannot intelligently argue against something unless you know exactly what it is the other side believes." Sigh.
I agree with your husband 100%. My kids are exposed to both sides of things for this exact reason.

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#23 of 96 Old 01-04-2007, 09:39 AM
 
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I am with your husband. I would let mine attend. But I probably feel this way becasue we have already discussed the facts of life with our children. I would want to see it before hand but that is probably not a deal breaker for me. I disagree strongly with abstinance only. My dh fears that one day I will be standing on the corner by the high school handing out condoms so these teenagers will be able to protect themselves. As my mother taught me "Saran wrap does not work."

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#24 of 96 Old 01-04-2007, 10:23 AM
 
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Hi I'm new, don't mind me ranting a little.

UGH, abstinence only "education" makes me a little crazy.

When I was in school (late 1800s) we were taught about sex and all the forms of birth control available. Repeatedly, we were told, the only 100% sure method of birth control was abstinence, but we were taught about condoms, pills etc etc. I was 18 when I first had sex. I wanted to be an adult, legally and physically, in case I got pregnant. We used a condom with spermicide and I did not get pregnant or pick up any STDs.

That is just me, but it is not just me. My friends, my sisters, many many people I have talked to since then all say that they used birth control because they had learned about it and even though it might not be 100% it is wiser to be careful... contrast this with abstinence only; what I am hearing from my more conservative friends is that they were all in favor of abstinence only and the whole virgin until married thing... but the results of these classes are; a minority of kids actually wait until marriage (just like those who take regular sex-ed) but those who's hormones get the better of them do not tend to bother with birth control because they often don't know almost anything about it and/or think it is almost 100% worthless at preventing pregnancy and STDs. They also may think it is "sinful." Better to have been momentarily "overcome" than to have planned, been ready... been responsible. (!!!)

Did any of you know that the 1950s, that squeaky clean time the far right dreams of returning to, had the highest teen pregnancy rate the US has ever seen? Real sex ed has seen a decline in teen motherhood and the spread of STDs. I totally do not understand why people want to give misinformation about sex to teenagers and it makes me a little cranky.

*hops off soapbox*
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#25 of 96 Old 01-04-2007, 12:17 PM
 
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The kids in your DD's third grade class are having sex?!?!

Please tell me I'm misunderstanding your post .
This is what some claim. Now are they really? Who knows. Most likely lying, even more likely misinformed and think holding hands is doing it, etc. And ask around to the adults you know, usually a few kids do start early, very early.

But that as might point, kids are cuurious by age 8. They hear, see, and have feelings. Early, open education-preferably by parent but the basics in school would be helpful. This is what my DD was saying. The kids were so confused! I hear what some of these kids say (for the record, she goes to a small suburban K-4 school) and it is sad. Many play "sweet and innoccent" in front of the parents tho. I have witnessed it.

Kids talk. Making this a taboo subject-like many parents do, is a recipe for disaster! Add pushy programs and more and problems occur.
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#26 of 96 Old 01-04-2007, 12:32 PM
 
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Is it possible to teach abstinence and birth control/STD's/how to be safe if you choose not to abstain.

Rebecca wife of Megan...moms to six crazy kiddos! Seth (15), Madison (13), Zachary (12), Trevor (12), Alex (10), and Nicholas (9)
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#27 of 96 Old 01-04-2007, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We did the same thing in high school with drinking and driving. We had cards that kids could sign pledging to not drink and drive. Noone was forced to sign the cards.
It is against the law to drink and drive, it is NOT against the law to have sex before marriage. This also is not high school, it is Jr. High.

It doesn't matter to me if they were forced to sign the cards or not. This does not belong in a Jr. High school and it is not the schools business.
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#28 of 96 Old 01-04-2007, 01:20 PM
 
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It is against the law to drink and drive, it is NOT against the law to have sex before marriage. This also is not high school, it is Jr. High.

It doesn't matter to me if they were forced to sign the cards or not. This does not belong in a Jr. High school and it is not the schools business.
I think that a lot of things aren't the school's business, but the sheer lack of parenting a percentage of these kids get makes it the business of someone to teach them. Why not the place they spend the bulk of their time?

What about the kids who get no sex education at home? Who will teach them about sex and all it entails? I am very aware that abstinence only doesn't teach about all this. I think that both ends of the conversation need to happen and it should be a parental consent thing.

Rebecca wife of Megan...moms to six crazy kiddos! Seth (15), Madison (13), Zachary (12), Trevor (12), Alex (10), and Nicholas (9)
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#29 of 96 Old 01-04-2007, 01:23 PM
 
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oops, misread.
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#30 of 96 Old 01-04-2007, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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What about the kids who get no sex education at home? Who will teach them about sex and all it entails? I am very aware that abstinence only doesn't teach about all this. I think that both ends of the conversation need to happen and it should be a parental consent thing.
That is my problem. There isn't any parental consent going on nor any education. They are taking it upon themselves to push the moral agenda of this administration and THAT does NOT belong in schools!
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