would you send your caucasian child to an all african american school? - Page 13 - Mothering Forums
View Poll Results: would you send your caucasian child to the school described below?
Yes. 92 27.54%
No. 137 41.02%
Maybe/ not sure. 90 26.95%
Other. 15 4.49%
Voters: 334. You may not vote on this poll

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#361 of 436 Old 07-08-2007, 03:47 PM
 
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You're underestimating the strength and importance of the comfort/familiarity factor. Why put children in this type of situation if it's not necessary? I suppose if the children are going to spend the rest of their lives immersed in a population that's 99% African American then that would be different. Furthermore, who is to say that that discomfort is going to be alleviated by immersion anyway? It might even exacerbate whatever level of uncertainty is present. That would not bode well for academic achievement and that is the primary function of schooling.

www.educationbuffet.com

A little discomfort is not a bad thing anyway; with it usually comes growth. Why put them in such a situation? Maybe because with that immersion comes awareness, and with awareness comes understanding. With understanding, comes a growth beyond the ignorance and fear that feeds racism.

I've been the only white person in many, many situations, including academic. I was the only white person in my major, the only white person in most of my college classes, one of only a few on campus (didn't know any of them, rarely saw them.) Uncomfortable sometimes? Sure, but only because of the exposure to a truth that most of us never see. I never felt targeted or ill at ease because I was the only white person in a room day after day after day...if I felt ill at ease, it was because I was embarrassed for my own ignorance, for not seeing beyond my own lens before, for not realizing how easily I had been manipulated by cultural bias and assumptions.
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#362 of 436 Old 07-08-2007, 04:50 PM
 
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Okay, how about another twist on it? What about being the only girl or the only boy in a class? That is what engineering school was like for me. I often had classes where I was the only girl. I actually think for a younger child (6 to 12 or so) that this would be more challenging. It was hard enough as a 18+ year old. It was a big part of the reason why I joined a sorority. On the other hand, now as an employed engineer I have no problems working with my all male colleagues.
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#363 of 436 Old 07-08-2007, 05:18 PM
 
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My white kids, especially my boys, are going to be at the top of the food chain for most of their life. It would do them good to experience a bit of discomfort at being an "other," an experience they won't have very often as white men from a middle class American family.

My husband was only one of a few white kids at an all-Hispanic middle school. he hated it at the time, but he is able to draw on those experiences as an adult and has an insight that most white men in the US do not have. I've never once heard him talk about "reverse racism" or any of the other bullcrap so many white men do when they feel threatened.
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#364 of 436 Old 07-08-2007, 05:24 PM
 
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[QUOTE=Missy;8582409]A little discomfort is not a bad thing anyway; with it usually comes growth. Why put them in such a situation? Maybe because with that immersion comes awareness, and with awareness comes understanding. With understanding, comes a growth beyond the ignorance and fear that feeds racism.

I agree with your point about awareness and growth, but awareness and growth of another race is not the primary reason I'm sending my child to school. I'm sending the child for reading, writing, arithmetic and all the rest. In order for the child to succeed in these disciplines he/she should have that comfort zone right from the get-go. The question as stated is "Would you send your child to an all African American school?" With no other information I'm assuming I have a choice...that my child doesn't have to go that school. Now, if there are no other choices available then I would send them.
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#365 of 436 Old 07-08-2007, 06:05 PM
 
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A few years before my daughter was born I bought a beautiful old fixer upper victorian in a neighborhood that contained 30 registered sex offenders in a two-block diameter, a meth-dealer next door, drive by shootings once a year or so, and lots of gang members letting their colors fly. This is relatively small-town Colorado. I figured, what the heck, I have a big dog. I personally have had no direct problems while living here, occasionally picking up needles that get thrown around, but all in all the place is okay for a single white female who doesn't interact with neighbors. The local school is mostly hispanic, and very low test-scored, and very impoverished. We're moving. It isn't a race issue as much as it is a culture issue for me. Yes, most of the neighborhood is hispanic. Yes, the gangs are hispanic. The children of the gang members would go to school with my daughter if she went there. I work with said children in the mental health field, and I sat here thinking, huh, would I let my kid go over to their houses to play? Absolutely not. Do I want my kid playing with those kids at school? No way. It's a value thing. It would be true if the kids were white, black, whatever. No thugs allowed in friends. Period. In response to the OP, since the school is private, many issues are accounted for: parent involvement, educational interest and values at home, selecting out the naughty ones, etc. In that situation I would happily send my kid as the only whitey. I would expect, however, that I would meet a lot of parents through the school and have some great linkages with them.
The thing I would like to see someday is when poverty is also equal opportunity. I'm tired of my head making the leap to "thug" when I see someone of color in the neighborhood. I'm always fighting that, thinking "don't make those assumptions", and then it turns out they're selling meth. jeeeeez. So anyway, a long post boils down to positive parent involvement--if it's there, we're cool with being a minority.
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#366 of 436 Old 07-08-2007, 06:09 PM
 
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A little discomfort is not a bad thing anyway; with it usually comes growth. Why put them in such a situation? Maybe because with that immersion comes awareness, and with awareness comes understanding. With understanding, comes a growth beyond the ignorance and fear that feeds racism.
I agree with your point about awareness and growth, but awareness and growth of another race is not the primary reason I'm sending my child to school. I'm sending the child for reading, writing, arithmetic and all the rest. In order for the child to succeed in these disciplines he/she should have that comfort zone right from the get-go. The question as stated is "Would you send your child to an all African American school?" With no other information I'm assuming I have a choice...that my child doesn't have to go that school. Now, if there are no other choices available then I would send them.
Obviously.

However, if there is a choice, but the choice to send your child to a different school takes extraneous or excessive effort and action, you probably need to consider the implications of that decision.

And it's not just "awareness and growth of another race"...it's awareness and growth within your child. Fighting racism is not just about pacifying people of color; it's about all of us.
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#367 of 436 Old 07-08-2007, 11:24 PM
 
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I answered no. I wouldn't send my child to an all AA school just like I wouldn't send my child to an all white school IF I had a choice. I am looking for more diversity, not less. I answered before I read any of the posts.

I spent a good 6 months researching schools because we were moving. I finally found a good charter school that uses a educational philosophy that I think will be great for ds. That was my primary criteria for chosing the school. The icing on the cake is that this school is probably the most diverse school in our community, both racially and socioeconomically. I feel like I hit the jackpot! AND, I probably will have to drive an additional hour each day to transport ds to this school. You won't hear me complaining about that.

Now, if this school had been all AA, I would have wanted ds to really test it out to make sure that he was comfortable there; that being a "novelty" wouldn't be a distraction to his learning. DS isn't a child that likes to stand out. If he would be comfortable, I would be comfortable because my primary reason for chosing the school was for the educational philosophy. I realize that PoC don't have this choice typically, but I wonder if you did, if you would excercise it. I'm honestly curious.

Laura - Mom to ds (10) and dd (7) "Time stands still best in moments that look suspiciously like ordinary life." Brian Andreas.

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#368 of 436 Old 07-09-2007, 02:25 AM
 
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I used to teach in a school that had 99% black students. One day one of my Kindergarten students told me she wanted to be moved to another classroom. When I asked her why, she told me she didn't want a white teacher . . . that she should be in the room with the black teacher. (There were 4 Kindergarten classrooms and only one had a black teacher.)
A friend of mine went to teach at a Middle School in our local school system. On her first day of class, an AA student told her he didn't like her. When she asked why, as it was the very first day of class, he told her he didn't like her because she's white and all white people are racist.

Note: this would be just as disturbing to me if the student were white and my friend were AA. It frightens me that as a society we seem to lose our way with some children at such a young age, no matter what race they are. Hate is hate.
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#369 of 436 Old 07-09-2007, 02:30 AM
 
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I can totally understand a black family wanting their child to be in a class with a black teacher as opposed to a white teacher. I seek out female professionals, especially when my children are involved (doctors, dentists, etc.). White authority figures are the norm, as are male. I can understand why a black family would want their child to be exposed to black authority figures.

Hate is hate, but oppression is oppression and there just isn't a lot of black folk out there oppressing white folk. There IS a difference.
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#370 of 436 Old 07-09-2007, 02:50 AM
 
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I answered yes. My ds1 was the only white kid in his last school- we lived on a reservation. The school was kinda as you described in your op, only they had dismal test scores and new facilities. Great teachers. DS went there for 8th grade and had a good year. He went to the high school briefly, but we pulled him out because he had not-so-good teachers and there were safety issues (drugs, guns, etc).

The racial/ethnic makeup of a school is important to me because I want my ds to be in a diverse environment.

"Have faith in yourself and in the direction you have chosen." Ralph Marston

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#371 of 436 Old 07-09-2007, 02:54 AM
 
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Hate is hate, but oppression is oppression and there just isn't a lot of black folk out there oppressing white folk. There IS a difference.
I totally understand that and agree with you wholeheartedly. I only brought up that particular incident because it was shocking to me that a child in Middle School would even *think* about speaking to a teacher in that manner, never mind the actual statement that was made.

My friend also had her finger broken by a student who wasn't punished in any way because the new principal's main goal was to be liked by the students, so discipline of any kind pretty much went out the window. But that's going to turn this post into a rant about the American educational system in general, which would be even more off topic.
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#372 of 436 Old 07-09-2007, 02:57 AM
 
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Reverse racism is a fallacy.
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#373 of 436 Old 07-09-2007, 04:10 AM
 
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This thread is a perfect example of why we have race relation problems in the US. We fancy words and beliefs up, put pretty little bows on it, when it is still just racism and biases. Call it about keeping your kids from mold or whatever, you still don't want your kids around black people or anyone who is non-white. How are we supposed to teach our kids about interactions with other cultures if you won't let them be around other cultures? How will we ever hope for a future for our kids where they can be "...judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin..." without different cultures interacting?

Education is more than about test scores and "book learning." It is about creating knowledge and balancing it with emotional intelligence and if the teachers actually care about the students, it's even more wonderful. Your kids will not be able to pick the races of people they work with so why limit the kind of folk they will be interacting with at school. There are going to be many times in life that they will be the only something in the room so we as parents need to prepare them for that. And it isn't comfortable at first. I grew up in a predominently white environment of which I am not and I am still not always comfortable being the only person of color in the room. If everyone sticks to their own kind, we are just going to have more problems and our kids will be stuck with it.
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#374 of 436 Old 07-09-2007, 08:39 AM
 
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Reverse racism is a fallacy.
Sure enough!

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#375 of 436 Old 07-09-2007, 08:40 AM
 
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I can totally understand a black family wanting their child to be in a class with a black teacher as opposed to a white teacher. I seek out female professionals, especially when my children are involved (doctors, dentists, etc.). White authority figures are the norm, as are male. I can understand why a black family would want their child to be exposed to black authority figures.

Hate is hate, but oppression is oppression and there just isn't a lot of black folk out there oppressing white folk. There IS a difference.
Thank you!

I found it sad, but not surprising, that the middle school student had already realized the depth of racism in this country. No, not all white people are bigots, but it's prevalent enough that he has cause to be afraid and to act on it. That's not hate; that's self-preservation. There is a stunning amount of systemic racism in our public schools.
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#376 of 436 Old 07-09-2007, 08:54 AM
 
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This thread is a perfect example of why we have race relation problems in the US. We fancy words and beliefs up, put pretty little bows on it, when it is still just racism and biases. Call it about keeping your kids from mold or whatever, you still don't want your kids around black people or anyone who is non-white. How are we supposed to teach our kids about interactions with other cultures if you won't let them be around other cultures? How will we ever hope for a future for our kids where they can be "...judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin..." without different cultures interacting?

Education is more than about test scores and "book learning." It is about creating knowledge and balancing it with emotional intelligence and if the teachers actually care about the students, it's even more wonderful. Your kids will not be able to pick the races of people they work with so why limit the kind of folk they will be interacting with at school. There are going to be many times in life that they will be the only something in the room so we as parents need to prepare them for that. And it isn't comfortable at first. I grew up in a predominently white environment of which I am not and I am still not always comfortable being the only person of color in the room. If everyone sticks to their own kind, we are just going to have more problems and our kids will be stuck with it.
I totally agree. It's a disservice to children to "shield" them from other races or classes of people. It's just not reality if they are going to survive in the real world. It's also called--segregation. I thought that was a "concept" we(american society) moved away from years ago.

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#377 of 436 Old 07-09-2007, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I have a theory that because there is such a strongly rising AA & Haitian middle class that it actually behooves white children to be part of a diverse environment... I think the white parents in my neighborhood who "guard" their children from black schools are doing their children a longterm disservice, because the professional world is becoming increasingly diverse, and to teach your child to avoid blacks will have a detrimental effect on the child's academic and professional future. The children accustomed to and comfortable with all races will have a strong social advantage over the child raised in racial isolation.
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#378 of 436 Old 07-09-2007, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Reverse racism is a fallacy.
Hey, not true! Racism goes both ways.
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#379 of 436 Old 07-09-2007, 01:27 PM
 
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Actually, bigotry goes both ways. The power of racism is really only one way.
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#380 of 436 Old 07-09-2007, 01:49 PM
 
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For those interested in racism, unlearning racism, institutionalized racism, and the fallacy of "reverse racism"-Check out hipmama's racism faq:

http://www.girl-mom.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5818

(Sorry about the link being on a related board but the original link is now dead. The hipmama boards long died or should I say imploded.)

ETA:

Quote:
"Reverse Racism" does not exist



I experienced reverse racism as a white person at work/when I lived abroad/in a community of color, etc. Where do I go for support?



"Reverse racism" is a term created and used by white people to deny the fact that they experience white privilege. Those in denial use the term reverse racism to refer to hostile behavior by POC toward whites, and to criticize affirmative action policies which allegedly give "preferential treatment" to POC over whites. Resistance to or an attempt to correct racism is not racism; it is a reaction to oppressive conditions. Under global white supremacy, there is no such thing as "reverse racism."



What do you MEAN, reverse racism doesn't exist?



Racism = power + prejudice. Since "reverse racism" would require the victims of racism to have more power than the people who are being racist, it is a nonsensical phrase.



White people are raised to assume that anything in the world is theirs by birthright, and that other people are treated the same way as we are. The truth is that white people are given many things that POC are not - from jobs to smiling welcomes to the benefit of the doubt. When PWOC lose these things, the loss is often mistaken for racism or discrimination. Usually what is really lost is a piece of unearned race-based privilege, which white people are not used to functioning without.
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#381 of 436 Old 07-09-2007, 01:59 PM
 
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Actually, bigotry goes both ways. The power of racism is really only one way.
Yep.

I was not getting what people were objecting to early in this thread re: not wanting to send a child to a school where they were the only one of their race.

However, now I get it.
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#382 of 436 Old 07-09-2007, 03:22 PM
 
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Reverse racism is a fallacy.
Not necessarily. And I say this as a member of a (religious/ethnic) minority group.

Although the more frequent occurrence is that previously oppressed minority then takes it out on the 'new' minority.

DD 01/2007, DS 09/2011

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#383 of 436 Old 07-09-2007, 05:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
I can totally understand a black family wanting their child to be in a class with a black teacher as opposed to a white teacher.

But if you're referring to my post . . . about my Kindergarten student telling me she'd rather move to the classroom with the black teacher . . . this was coming from the little girl. As far as I know, her parents were fine with me. This was just how she thought things should be. (By the way, she stayed with me, and she was perfectly happy.)
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#384 of 436 Old 07-11-2007, 11:52 PM
 
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After reviewing this thread, I made the decision to remove a post that was unnecessarily provocative. There was honest, open, reflective discussion prior to this and I felt this post was going to significantly detract from the discussion. It was also a UA violation. Posts that quoted this post needed to be removed as a result. The reason for removing it was for UA violation, not in order to conceal racism. Actions are applied universally to all UA violations; special exceptions are not made for particular categories of violation.

It is also a violation to discuss mod actions or to criticize MDC for procedures. There were members violating this UA item as well.

I am returning this thread for a second chance with the following caveats:

1. This is the Learning at School forum. Threads should pertain to education, schools, etc. While I realize there is crossover on this issue, the thread should not be about racism, classism, gender bias, etc. without some relation to schooling and education.
2. Questions and Suggestions exists as a forum to take issues to the designated mod and administrators on how to improve MDC, how to better address certain issues, etc.
3. There is an ongoing Racism Workshop, which I encourage members to participate in.

Also, as far as I know general issues of racism, classism, sexism, etc. can be discussed in TAO (though I could be wrong and I will surely hear about it!)

Thanks for returning to and staying on topic.

 
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#385 of 436 Old 07-12-2007, 11:52 AM
 
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Sadly, for me, the most important thing is proximity. I MUST send her to a school that she can get to without me driving her. So, basically the neighborhood school is the only option.

If I lived in an all hispanic or black neigborhood, that is the school she would go to.

But, those kids would be her friends anyway, since we lived in that community, so I guess it wouldn't be a huge deal.

We live in an all white and Middle Eastern community now. That is who she hangs out with, that is who she goes to school with. It isn't a superb school, but it is O.K. My dd's biggest concern is the music program anyway. She's a band Geek.
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#386 of 436 Old 07-12-2007, 02:16 PM
 
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A quick comment to a comment:

>Also, in order for a child to acquire a 2nd language, they need to spend 30%+ of their waking hours in an environment where the target language is used.

This is true, in order for that second language to be absorbed at "bilingual" level (which may be what the poster was referring to). Much lower levels of exposure are sufficient for "second language" status. If grown ups can learna language with a few hours a week of exposure, you know children can just as easily or even more so.

Just wanted to make sure this does not discourage people from having kids exposed to other languages from fear of nothing below 30% making a difference (which is not what was said, but I want to add some clarity).

Oana (who would have never learned English as a kid at the "2-3 hours a week with non-native speaker" level of exposure I had during my early years)


sorry this was not really related to the OP.
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#387 of 436 Old 07-12-2007, 02:36 PM
 
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No. Dh and I debated this one long and hard and we both agreed. Unless the all black school was outstanding in some way, we would not consider it for our child.


And reverse racism is not a falsehood. Until recently I lived in Atlanta, in a county 60 percent black and I and my family would be waited on last and /or ignored by many black salespeople, servers and the like. If we complained, I was a "rich white bitch" and all heck would break loose.

I do my best to raise my kids color blind, but by golly, some folks make this extremely hard.
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#388 of 436 Old 07-12-2007, 02:56 PM
 
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I'm glad to see this thread back
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#389 of 436 Old 07-12-2007, 03:23 PM
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And reverse racism is not a falsehood.
Going by the definition of racism as "power+prejudice", there can be no reverse racism, because in this country, black people do not have inherent power (or privilege) over white people. What you experienced may have well been prejudice nonetheless. Just for clarification, of course.

Philo, if your child wanted to go, would it still be so completely out of your consideration? A non-option? Curious.

Kae
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#390 of 436 Old 07-12-2007, 03:59 PM
 
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I do my best to raise my kids color blind, but by golly, some folks make this extremely hard.
Color blind is not the ideal. Respect and understanding of each others color/race/etc. is a better idea. Often color blind to the majority means imagining the "minority" is exactly like them, while not acknowledging the unique issues the "minority" may face in a society where they are not seen as the same or equal by the "majority".

Those "folks that make it hard" are often a product of our countries long, racist history. While being treated like crap is good for noone, realize (right or wrong) you got a small taste of what most POC experience almost everywhere they go in this country. My Dh was once followed into the bathroom while I was questioned a few times if we could pay the bill at a restaurant. I had gone to the place for years by myself w/o any issues.

Being white we can pretty much get in our car and drive anywhere in the USA, with little fear of going into the "wrong town". Sure, we all know of some bad neighborhoods, but imagine knowing that as a POC there are large portions of this country where you are likely not to be welcome in local restaurants or even hotels-due to who you are and what you look like.

It all starts with our kids, so please-if it was people of the same race/ethnicity as you or your family that treated you badly, would you choose to not send your kids to a school of the same race/ethnicity?
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