would you send your caucasian child to an all african american school? - Page 7 - Mothering Forums

View Poll Results: would you send your caucasian child to the school described below?
Yes. 92 27.54%
No. 137 41.02%
Maybe/ not sure. 90 26.95%
Other. 15 4.49%
Voters: 334. You may not vote on this poll

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#181 of 436 Old 07-03-2007, 02:41 PM
 
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"I will say also in a genuine question-how can an all white staff cultivate an environment of true learning when it comes to culture, differences etc of there is no true example shown? It cant ALWAYS be beneficial for white people to teach about liberation in Mexico or slavery in ths South.....maybe I am wrong....I really wanna find a ground and stand on it about this."

So only the Jews can teach about the Holocaust

And only someone of French heritage can teach French history

And only someone who is of German heritage can sing Wagner

And only someone who is of English heritage can teach Dickens and Shakespeare.

I find that ridiculous. A good history teacher should be able to teach facts, and then express the different points of view major historians have about those facts. While I agree it is useful to have a diverse faculty for purposes of role-modeling, I do not feel it is necessary from the perspective of "only an African American has the right to teach/can "really" teach the history of the civil rights movement."
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I think it's wrong to assume whites can't teach AAs or to assume that an AA student's only place of learning will be the classroom. Anyway in those situations the students might teach the teacher with their opinions and views. Learning can go both ways in the classroom.

Anyway, the fact that AA parents are choosing to send their children to this school (since it's a private school, not a zoned public school) makes me think the staff must be acceptable to them on some level. There is a Haitian contingent in the school, maybe their expectations are different from the AA contingent, but I have no idea, really, and hate to generalize. But maybe Haitians have different feelings about whites in this country since they don't descend from a legacy of US slavery, and thus there is less tension about having a white person teach their child.

I had a huge response typed out and my dh clicked the computer off so I lost it. Hopefully I can regain what I was typing at such a frenzy. I think its RIDICULOUS not see that I am genuinely asking a sincere question not expressing a concrete opinoin I have formed. I keep repeating that I am trying to find out what the line in the sand is for ME and my family. I am the mother of bi-racial children and the wife of an AA man and these issues are important just as they are to anyone else here. I never ever ASSUMED anything and I would never say that a white person is incompetent of teaching black history. I find that to be comepletly false and in NO WAY did I say or allude to that....I dont believe that a persons heritage should reflect the subject or language they teach HOWEVER I am trying to find the moment when we are ALL PEOPLE yet and still we are DIFFERENT and its amazing and beautiful because thats how I see it. I want exposure in diverse ways for my children IN AND OUT of the classroom because frankly they are in a classroom more than they are with me or in their little diverse art class or whatever,brownie troop whatever...and so it plays a much larger role than a weekly playgroup and what have you. We ARE all JUST PEOPLE but we all ARE DIFFERENT and I want my children to be exposed to the beauty of it not just accepting the whole faculty being white and the student body AA because they are competent-I want more than competency in my DC beginnings of life long learning. I understand a community can be just that-a living community that is thoughtful and kind and I would expect no less from a group of AA students....that was never an issue. What I kept asking in a most sincere form is if essentially we have a choice wouldnt we want more for our childrens education? I also agree that learning goes both ways in a classroom which wouls also be why as a teacher I may have thought twice about teaching ANYWHERE that has a student body made up of over 97% of ONE RACE -WHATEVER IT IS. What I also am trying to figure out is if I am cutting off my own nose (if I were truly in this situation) by NOT sending them so that the process of diversifying could truly begin? Would I want them to be the only ones for a little while so that a mama who was in presently in my "past shoes" feel good about sending her child? I dont want someone to IGNORE the culture that is rightfully my childrens. I enjoy the balance of people being just people and also knowing and learning feeling and believing in who they are outside of that. I wonder if in a situtation like this its possible. THATS ALL.I think its ridiculous when people try to make things what they arent on MDC.....I am not saying you meowee but to the other comment it was off base from my original comment. What a process this is indeed.
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#182 of 436 Old 07-03-2007, 02:48 PM
 
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DeLovely, I can really appreciate your perspective on all of this as a mother of biracial children. It forces you to see things from all sides and not just one. I think that can be a beautiful place to be and a blessing for your family.

I mean, I have seen some pretty scathing comments on here, don't get me wrong, but in some cases, we seem to be making mountains out of molehills, you know?
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#183 of 436 Old 07-03-2007, 03:08 PM
 
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Yes, but you see, your response here is part of what makes it harder for people to get past their racism. I can assume that you have been very hurt in the past and that this is an emotional subject for you. Please be assured though that typing words in bold letters and using exclamation marks isn't helping the other side understand or care about your concerns any better. In fact it makes me sad that trying to have a dialogue with you about it has suddenly made me a racist too! I'm the one with the son in an inner city program as one of the only two white kids and I reported a positive experience, remember? So it hurts me that you would lump me in with everybody else just because I believe honesty on all sides without fear is important. That doesn't mean I think people should be allowed to use inflammatory language or derogatory comments either. That isn't appropriate in any conversation...but trying to silence the other side or calling them racist as soon as they disagree with political correctness or voice any reservation regarding race or class isn't going to solve anything. Then we go back to everyone being politically correct and nothing getting solved because people don't want to offend anyone.

Why doesn't that make sense?

I said general you-not you as in pixiewytch. I wrote "general you" to be sure you knew I was not directing the comment at pixiewytch but in response to your statement. I never called you racist or even hinted at it. I made a general statement about people speaking and posting about racial topics.

IMHO, my exclamation points are in good use. And I am far from PC, I bite my tongue here alot and use terms I don't use irl to get points across. Yet I stand by the fact that if someone is afraid to say something b/c they may come acrossed as racist, they need to accept that and ask themselves WHY? It is a scary but necessary learning process. For example, I read the vax board a LONG time before posting in it. And when I first did, I felt attacked, confused, etc. So I educated myself on the issues. In the beginning I was scared, in denial, sad I just may be wrong about vaccines. Then I saw why the board existed, where people were coming from, etc. The same can be done in regards to racism.

Anecdote: Not long before my Dad past, he commented to me about a house in his mostly white neighborhood. He said "You know that guy keeps his house so nice. It's a black guy, he is always working so hard to make it look good." I said "Maybe because he knows he is seen as the "black guy" around here and he has to work extra hard to keep his house nice. If he lets his grass grow too high one day, ya wanna bet people will be saying 'see what happens when you let those people move into the neighborhood?' He will always be the black guy or the black neighbor. Not the guy next door. "(Actual conversation more eloquent-really! )

My Dad finally got it. He saw that hidden, painful racism that exists right in his face-yet he was blind to his whole life. Not long after, he found some information which he and his sister believe there pale, red/blonde hair irish ancestry may not be so. They now believe their Grandmother had some form of black roots. And he was PROUD of that find.
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#184 of 436 Old 07-03-2007, 03:16 PM
 
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Thank you for explaining that a little better and I think I misunderstood your previous post. I know exactly what you mean about little side conversations that seem innocent but are subtle racism. I've been guilty of them myself. We have some old black guys who solicit yard work door to door and we've had some criminal activity because of them. I know for a fact that on multiple occasions I have referred to them as "the black guys that come door to door asking for yard work". I certainly mean no harm or ill intent by it but I see what you mean.

These are the type of productive discussions I can enjoy where we can speak freely and not be judged or immediately labeled for it.
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#185 of 436 Old 07-03-2007, 03:25 PM
 
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Ok, I am glad we cleared that up!

It is a fine line. People need to ask themselves WHY they are reffering to a person by race/color/ethnicity. My own grandma refers to everyone by racial/ethnic slurs (including "her own") with no apologies. It is rough. If someone catches themselves referring to "them" or describing a person by race when it has NOTHING to do with the discussion, they may have an issue. (ie. White Mom: "Little Billy was playing with his friend, a little *whisper* black boy." Yet when a white friend "Little Billy was playing with his friend.") Or "those Mexicans." "Those Indians." THEM THEM THEM.
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#186 of 436 Old 07-03-2007, 03:43 PM
 
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Interesting, actually I feel like De-lovely's point of having teachers that have been thru/or are a part of group that historically has had to suffer (in some way) is a valid point. Of course that doesn't mean that a person of another race couldn't teach the subject matter-I'm not saying this-but when you have someone who is teaching you who has actually experienced something, then the infomation being taught may have a deeper impact, of course this IMO.
I missed this earlier and this is very much a part of what I was saying....I wasnt being all inclusive of ALL subjects all the time as someone assumed I had...
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#187 of 436 Old 07-03-2007, 03:45 PM
 
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If I had a child who was gay, I wouldn't discourage him/her from being in a majority straight school because I feared teasing.
I wouldn't either, but I would hesitate to send him or her to a school where he or she was the ONLY out queer student. That sounds, again,...isolating. I also wouldn't send my differently abled kid to a school where she was the only one needing accomodations. (Remember, this was the actual example: THE ONLY ONE.)

Personally, I don't have a problem with people wanting to have at least some small community around them of people they identify with, whether that's on the basis of race, gender, sexual orientation, whatever. Of course it's much less of an everyday issue if you are of the majority group, and we should all reaiize that, but that doesn't mean it's impossible for someone in the majority group to feel isolated or to have a hard time when the tables are turned. Is it good for people who are in the majority to experience this? Yes, I think so. Is it something I'd want any kid who happens to draw that card to experience every single day for years on end? I don't know.

Anyway, I'm sorta sick of being called classist at this point, so I guess I'm done. One last time, though: I think it looks different when it's your kid, your reality, your baby 5-year-old. (I'm not talking about race here, FTR--I'm talking about a poor school that has behavior and safety issues.) I wonder how many of you here who say that economic status and test scores would never influence you are actually sending your kids, by choice, to a school that is by every state and federal standard a failing school in deep crisis.

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#188 of 436 Old 07-03-2007, 03:45 PM
 
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Ok, I am glad we cleared that up!

It is a fine line. People need to ask themselves WHY they are reffering to a person by race/color/ethnicity. My own grandma refers to everyone by racial/ethnic slurs (including "her own") with no apologies. It is rough. If someone catches themselves referring to "them" or describing a person by race when it has NOTHING to do with the discussion, they may have an issue. (ie. White Mom: "Little Billy was playing with his friend, a little *whisper* black boy." Yet when a white friend "Little Billy was playing with his friend.") Or "those Mexicans." "Those Indians." THEM THEM THEM.
Well, if I refer to Russians en masse that way it's because I'm married to one and surrounded by them all the time, and one sometimes makes generalizations based on experience (especially Russian babushkas ) and in an inter-cultural marriage, one let's off steam once in a while this way to one's fellow Americans of any race (and I'm pretty sure, that being an AMerican married to a Russian raised in the USSR is a much bigger cultural difference then between an AA-white American spouses). It may not be racism per se, because they're white (and maybe that's how I get away with it?), but it's sort of the same thing. And part of the letting of steam is about Russians' tendency toward racism on a mass level (not all Russians are blatantly racist, but many are and many more are subtly racist in ways that would make even the most anti-politically correct white American's hair stand on end). However, I don't assume that any individual Russian is anything but what they are like until I get to know them.

Nevertheless, I know what you mean, and it is a problem that white people describe POC by their color, but not white people. I usually try to avoid referring to someone's race altogether if I'm describing them and only resort to it as a last measure (I start with approximate age (oh dear, that can also get you in trouble, can't it ) and hairstyle). Oh yeah, and sex, which one is usually safe on.

I also want to point out that sometimes someone can be thinking something and say something that maybe sounds offensive but is based on info the listener couldn't know and the talker didn't explain. For example, after DS was born in the hospital, they put him under the heater a little in the nursery with me there and he streched himself out. The nurse, as I recall apparently AA-Puerto Rican, said he could be a basketball player. I immediately thought of my height 5'5" and my husband's 5'8", and our not very tall parents (on both sides), and blurted out -- "No, he doesn't have the genes for it". She gave me a look and said nothing. Only later (in my post c/s haze) I realized she must have thought I was saying that b/c he is white, and therefore was making a racist comment, when I was really just thinking about the fact that as a family, we're not tall. She couldn't know that--but it's also hard to go through life always anticipating these sorts of misunderstandings, and then you make a comment to someone you never see again, they think one thing even though you're thinking another, and the mess goes on...
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#189 of 436 Old 07-03-2007, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I had a huge response typed out and my dh clicked the computer off so I lost it. Hopefully I can regain what I was typing at such a frenzy. I think its RIDICULOUS not see that I am genuinely asking a sincere question not expressing a concrete opinoin I have formed...
Well what I am figuring out is that it's not as easy to shape young people's thoughts as you might think... so even if you found a "perfect" school in your eyes there are no guarantees how your child will turn out.

I also find it strange that people assume a child of a different race will automatically be an outcast. Yes, in areas where there is high racism against the race the child is, maybe.

But racism is different from social ostracization.

It tends to be those of us with poor social skills, whether Asperger's, like me, or not, who are made the outcasts, regardless of race. I can think of any number of situations in a predominantly white group of kids, where I was readily hated and ostracized over the 1 or 2 AA, hispanic, or asian children in the group. People almost invariably dislike me IRL and are put off by me. It's always been that way. Thankfully 3 of my kids seem to have infinitely better social skills than I do.

So if the "odd child out," racially speaking, has good social skills, the situation may well turn out fine for them. But put a child with Asperger's and/or poor social skills in a group of same race children, and they may well be ostracized. I see it happen to my HFA son all the time and that was the story of my life growing up.
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#190 of 436 Old 07-03-2007, 04:26 PM
 
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[QUOTE=loraxc;8541281

Anyway, I'm sorta sick of being called classist at this point, so I guess I'm done. One last time, though: I think it looks different when it's your kid, your reality, your baby 5-year-old. (I'm not talking about race here, FTR--I'm talking about a poor school that has behavior and safety issues.) I wonder how many of you here who say that economic status and test scores would never influence you are actually sending your kids, by choice, to a school that is by every state and federal standard a failing school in deep crisis.[/QUOTE]

Do you honestly believe everything the state tells you or defines as a good school? They usually have an agenda you know which typically means that they don't want to give all of the schools money so if they can claim that some of them are really bad, they don't have to give them money at all. That is how it is right here in Florida where we have a huge crisis because all academics are being taught around standardized testing. Then we just recently discovered that the test scores over the past several years are seriously flawed. My, my, what a surprise!

My baby 5 year old has gone to these schools that are considered failing but he had a wonderful teacher and a great time. Of course he doesn't know what standardized tests or failing scores mean either. Granted, we are sending him to waldorf next year but that isn't because of "failing schools". It is because we despise the way academics are structured around a pass/fail standardized test the entire year with little room for anything else. That and we have chosen something that resonates a little more with our parenting philosophy.

All that other business about test scores and pass/fail criteria is just a bunch of hooey in my opinion, especially in early childhood. 5 year olds just want to play. They don't care about all of that. If I worried about it at all, I would worry about it when they are older and preparing for college.
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#191 of 436 Old 07-03-2007, 04:51 PM
 
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.I realize it's a flawed standard, and as I say, merely okay or mediocre test scores would not faze me, depending on what else I knew. Across-the-board failing scores are more concerning to me, though. Anyway, I've talked to people in the community, including teachers in the school system, who say the school is in big trouble: demoralized, disorganized, chaotic, and barely holding on. It's not just the numbers. It's the community who says the school is in failure.

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#192 of 436 Old 07-03-2007, 05:03 PM
 
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If I had a child who was gay, I wouldn't discourage him/her from being in a majority straight school because I feared teasing.
Why not?? Teasing is a real problem for gay children in straight schools. In Toronto they have the Triangle Program, for queer and transgender students. I would send my child there if I could. WAY better, plus they get queer history and queer role models in the teacher.

Not comparable to a white student attending a non-white school, but I wanted to point out that gay students in straight schools can have a horrific time.

Teasing and social ostracization are real issues.
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#193 of 436 Old 07-03-2007, 05:13 PM
 
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I thought of something else.

I mentioned I was one of the few whites in a school with mostly Latinos and that I had no issues.

Upon further reflection, I realize this is not entirely true. In the early grades, it was fine. Everyone knew me (I'd been there since the age of 3). Later, though, our program transferred to a new building where there were already students (most of whom were Latinos). Our program took over the school. Only then-- when people did not know me-- did I experience more problems. Nothing severe, just that I "couldn't get" certain things 'cause I was white.

Later, I went to grad school for bilingual/bicultural ed. I was in a cohort with all Latinos. Many of our classes were about multiculturalism, and much time was spent putting down The Man. I was sometimes like-- Hey! I am RIGHT HERE. They would say, "Oh, not you! You're different!" Is that REALLY any different than a group of white people putting down another group and then saying to an individual-- oh, not you-- you're different than the rest of them.

We celebrated nothing about our culture (my family has been here for 100 yrs, so maybe all we had left was mainstream culture) in my home. In fact, my parents often put down The Man, too. When I went to elementary school, we studied only Latino cultures (save for the US Constitution). High school was very diverse, so that was OK. College-- I'd never been with so many whites. Weird. Grad school was not only about celebrating diversity, but a lot about complaining about whites. From that, it was hard to get a good sense of who I was, and to be OK with the fact that I am white (since I can't do much to change that). It's taken me years to realize that white people are not inherently bad. Priviledged, yes. Often ignorant, yes. Fearful (fear of losing power), sure-- often. But bad, straight across the board? No.

So, I am going to change my vote to no, I would not put my DD in a school that was all anything, inc. one full of students who are half Irish, half Korean (that is what my DC are). I would only put her in a school that is diverse economically and ethnically unless I had no other option. Thankfully, we picked a school that fits the bill.

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#194 of 436 Old 07-03-2007, 07:19 PM
 
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Why not?? Teasing is a real problem for gay children in straight schools. In Toronto they have the Triangle Program, for queer and transgender students. I would send my child there if I could. WAY better, plus they get queer history and queer role models in the teacher.

Not comparable to a white student attending a non-white school, but I wanted to point out that gay students in straight schools can have a horrific time.

Teasing and social ostracization are real issues.
I work with gay teens so I know for sure what happens to them. My statement was not an absolute and having an option like you mentioned is awesome. However, given that lack of options here, I would hope that I could help my child deal with the difficulties of being a gay kid in a mostly straight environment. I am about helping people to feel empowered even in the most difficult of situations because life can introduce you to some real jerks

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#195 of 436 Old 07-03-2007, 10:27 PM
 
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Ok, I just finished reading this thread and I really just need to gather my thoughts to find a thoughtful reply. There was definitely some hard to swallow stuff in this thread.

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#196 of 436 Old 07-04-2007, 01:56 AM
 
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"If someone catches themselves referring to "them" or describing a person by race when it has NOTHING to do with the discussion, they may have an issue."

I agree with that. However, I don't think you should have to avoid using race as a descriptor at all. For example, if you're at a party and someone is asking "Who's Bob?" and you say, he's the African American man by the punch bowl (because there are 2 other white guys by the punch bowl too), I don't think that should be considered racist -- even if you could have said he's the guy in the red tie by the punch bowl. Otherwise it starts to seem like Bob's race is something to be embarrassed about, or a disability that "polite" people won't mention.

One thing that I found interesting in this thread is that some people responded that the question was not relevant to them because they were homeschooling. However, I think the issue of diversity and homeschooling is a very important one (though maybe not responsive to the issue raised by the OP). I have felt uncomfortable with some aspects of my DSS' homeschooling experience. His mother/the homeschooling group sets up "diversity" experiences. However, those are mostly things like helping at a soup kitchen. I grew up in a town with a fairly strong black middle class, and had a number of friends in that group. I feel my experience with those kids (which was peer to peer) is manifestly different than my DSS' which has been "giving assistance".
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#197 of 436 Old 07-04-2007, 09:02 AM
 
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I wouldn't either, but I would hesitate to send him or her to a school where he or she was the ONLY out queer student. That sounds, again,...isolating. I also wouldn't send my differently abled kid to a school where she was the only one needing accomodations. (Remember, this was the actual example: THE ONLY ONE.)

Personally, I don't have a problem with people wanting to have at least some small community around them of people they identify with, whether that's on the basis of race, gender, sexual orientation, whatever. Of course it's much less of an everyday issue if you are of the majority group, and we should all reaiize that, but that doesn't mean it's impossible for someone in the majority group to feel isolated or to have a hard time when the tables are turned. Is it good for people who are in the majority to experience this? Yes, I think so. Is it something I'd want any kid who happens to draw that card to experience every single day for years on end? I don't know.

Anyway, I'm sorta sick of being called classist at this point, so I guess I'm done. One last time, though: I think it looks different when it's your kid, your reality, your baby 5-year-old. (I'm not talking about race here, FTR--I'm talking about a poor school that has behavior and safety issues.) I wonder how many of you here who say that economic status and test scores would never influence you are actually sending your kids, by choice, to a school that is by every state and federal standard a failing school in deep crisis.
I want to clarify that behavioral and safety issues aren't exclusive to poor schools. Might I remind you of Columbine? Again, I think some people equate "all black" with "all bad" or that somehow the quality is lacking.
I grew up in a upper-middle class neighborhood and went to school with mostly white people. Those students had as many issues as the young black students that I now work with as an adult.

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#198 of 436 Old 07-04-2007, 09:37 AM
 
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I want to clarify that behavioral and safety issues aren't exclusive to poor schools. Might I remind you of Columbine? Again, I think some people equate "all black" with "all bad" or that somehow the quality is lacking.
I grew up in a upper-middle class neighborhood and went to school with mostly white people. Those students had as many issues as the young black students that I now work with as an adult.

I totally agree with this....I moved my freshman year to an ALL WHITE and I mean ALL WHITE school. They were predominantly upper middle class and upper class (household income wise). There were a few families like mine just regular gettin by middle class and "some" but very few poorer farm families.I have never ever seen so many drugs, I had friends die of suicide and drunk driving car wrecks, three people I knew closely have overdosed and died from heroin and one was shot by police. All of these kids but one were in the "up-scale" neighborhoods. My core group of friends from middle school on was (we're still like family mind you 15 years later) a group of black girls and they never experienced even HALF of what I did. Its such a horrible assumption people make....
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#199 of 436 Old 07-04-2007, 10:09 AM
 
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I hope to God that my boys never encounter this level of ignorance and bigotry, where they are reduced to some primitive creature to be feared. Unfortunately, if someone is capable of expressing that thought, of "verbalizing" it, knowing POC are reading, I have little doubt that all we can do is prepare as best as we can for that kind of ugliness.

Actually, I wasn't referring to boys at all. For my daughters, I am most concerned about being able to be fully develope the kinds of friendships girls need. Children needs friends of their same gender, especially girls. I would have no expectations of my daughters being able to form sound friendships with other girls here. The AM girls here are more racist than anything I have ever encountered. This is why my girls go to a diverse parochial school in the big city near where we live. I drive them there, 45 minutes each way every day. I do not want them exposed so heavily to racism.

It is hard to make that happen here. I am in the deep South where in rural areas, segregation is very much still in place. We live in a rural area. Luckily, aside from church, we do not spend much time in our community. Even church is segregated, which I hate. I have considered going into the city for church. But, aside from the segregation, our church is very supportive of all its members, a great community. But very undiverse.

And as for boys, I fear for my daughters from all of them. It is horrible what many boys feel is appropriate behavior with girls, even now. I believe it is equal across the board and am actively working to make sure they are exposed to the "good" boys early on so they know what to look for. Ethnicity does not come into play. Respect does.
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#200 of 436 Old 07-04-2007, 10:32 AM
 
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I'm having a hard time responding to any of this appropriately, within the UA. I mean, I know people draw an invisible line between my family and themselves. I see it in action. But generally, the most obvious lines (in some cases, ditches) are drawn (dug) by ultra-conservative good Christian folk. To see the emotion behind those lines so clearly articulated here, in a place that rests under the words "mothering" and "commune"...I want to know how people can put their hands on the keyboard and deliberately choose the letters that spell out the type of fear and ignorance I've seen expressed on this thread. How do you do that and still claim, with a straight face, that you're not racist?

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I think it looks different when it's your kid, your reality, your baby 5-year-old.
I know this is not your point, that you're trying to take it in the opposite direction...But HELL YEAH--what about MY BABY 5-YEAR-OLD????? The one squirming behind me in the computer chair while I'm trying to type? Is the crap in this thread what he's going to grow up dealing with? The assumptions, the stereotypes, the ignorance?

And then, for someone to presume that my 12-year-old daughter isn't worth the effort of friendship because of her skin color is going to impede the level of intimacy? I'll make sure that she realizes she needs to stick with her own kind.
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#201 of 436 Old 07-04-2007, 10:40 AM
 
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One thing that I found interesting in this thread is that some people responded that the question was not relevant to them because they were homeschooling. However, I think the issue of diversity and homeschooling is a very important one (though maybe not responsive to the issue raised by the OP). I have felt uncomfortable with some aspects of my DSS' homeschooling experience. His mother/the homeschooling group sets up "diversity" experiences. However, those are mostly things like helping at a soup kitchen. I grew up in a town with a fairly strong black middle class, and had a number of friends in that group. I feel my experience with those kids (which was peer to peer) is manifestly different than my DSS' which has been "giving assistance".
"Diversity experiences". That's quaint.

We homeschool and way too often my family is heralded as The Diversity at an activity. That gets old fast. I'm one of the writers on a large homeschool/unschool blog (LifeWithoutSchool) and one of the pieces I did was about that. Raised some interesting comments from readers...
http://lifewithoutschool.typepad.com...ts_about_.html
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#202 of 436 Old 07-04-2007, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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About test scores-- I saw a documentary once about a study done showing that AA will do worse on the same test if they are told it tests intelligence as opposed to leadership skills or some other skill. I can't remember where the study was done but they would administer pretty much the same test to an AA and one time they would say it tested intelligence and the other time they would say it tested something else. Even though the skills required for both tests were identical,the AA scored worse when told the test was to test intelligence. This shows that it is not something ingrained or innate that depresses their test scores, it's an emotional or psychological factor. Anecdotally, I have a friend who is married to a AA scholar who always performed very poorly on standardized tests yet he is a brilliant teacher. There really could be something to that study I saw.
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#203 of 436 Old 07-04-2007, 11:37 AM
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And as for boys, I fear for my daughters from all of them.
You know, just throwing your stereotypes in a different direction doesn't make them any better. As a mother of a boy, I'm really offended by this statement. The vast, vast majority of them are not criminals and rapists, and they shouldn't have to justify their existence to you. They're hurt by our patriarchal society, too.

What kind of marriages will your daughters be able to have if they've picked up "fear every boy" from you?

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#204 of 436 Old 07-04-2007, 11:40 AM
 
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I'm having a hard time responding to any of this appropriately, within the UA. I mean, I know people draw an invisible line between my family and themselves. I see it in action. But generally, the most obvious lines (in some cases, ditches) are drawn (dug) by ultra-conservative good Christian folk. To see the emotion behind those lines so clearly articulated here, in a place that rests under the words "mothering" and "commune"...I want to know how people can put their hands on the keyboard and deliberately choose the letters that spell out the type of fear and ignorance I've seen expressed on this thread. How do you do that and still claim, with a straight face, that you're not racist?



I know this is not your point, that you're trying to take it in the opposite direction...But HELL YEAH--what about MY BABY 5-YEAR-OLD????? The one squirming behind me in the computer chair while I'm trying to type? Is the crap in this thread what he's going to grow up dealing with? The assumptions, the stereotypes, the ignorance?

And then, for someone to presume that my 12-year-old daughter isn't worth the effort of friendship because of her skin color is going to impede the level of intimacy? I'll make sure that she realizes she needs to stick with her own kind.


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#205 of 436 Old 07-04-2007, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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You know, just throwing your stereotypes in a different direction doesn't make them any better. As a mother of a boy, I'm really offended by this statement. The vast, vast majority of them are not criminals and rapists, and they shouldn't have to justify their existence to you. They're hurt by our patriarchal society, too.

What kind of marriages will your daughters be able to have if they've picked up "fear every boy" from you?
You really need to be more sensitive to those of us (maybe even you were too) who were sexually abused/ assaulted/ molested by males and still have PTSD and scars. I do fear for my daughter concerning all boys, this is a visceral reaction I cannot stop. But I am careful in my words and attitude when talking to my girls. I have a son too. I can control my words but not my emotions, and no trauma victim should be expected to control their emotions. This is a forum for grown women, hopefully our children will not see these words. The way we speak here isn't how we will speak to our sons or your son.
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#206 of 436 Old 07-04-2007, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I want to know how people can put their hands on the keyboard and deliberately choose the letters that spell out the type of fear and ignorance I've seen expressed on this thread. How do you do that and still claim, with a straight face, that you're not racist?
I agree!! I bet if I made a poll asking members if they consider themselves racist, the percentage would be far, far below the 40% in this thread who would not send their child to an all AA school (or maybe it really is the average test scores and blah facilities that made them select that option... who knows! But I doubt it.).
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#207 of 436 Old 07-04-2007, 11:51 AM
 
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I am glad that I seen your post before it got burried. I can see where that may be the case. I have a friend who was raised in a racially "diverse" family so to speak. (not really sure what is politically correct there) However, she was born African American even though some of family was very ummm..European. She and I have had long conversation about the peformance of AA childern on standardized tests. From her point of view she very much believed that its part of AA culture to teach childern they aren't smart. THere are more things like sports, ect. While I have seen some of this first hand, when I went Alternative school, I wouldn't make such a blanket statment, since I have seen the same behavior in Caucasian culture.

I am thinking we are on to something, maybe pehaps someone looking for a master thesis topic would be interested in this. Testing scores as it relates to culture. I am sorry, but I truly think that culture (not race) has a lot ot do with how anyone views themselves.

Just a few thoughts.
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#208 of 436 Old 07-04-2007, 11:52 AM
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The way we speak here isn't how we will speak to our sons or your son.
But it's completely indicative of the attitude you will project in his presence.

Don't you have a father, grandfathers, brothers, uncles, cousins, friends, neighbors, co-workers, etc. who are good men? Then why fear "all" men? That's really no different than fearing an entire race of people because a few people of that race abused you.

Look at your own son. That is exactly how the majority of boys/men are.......good people just trying to figure out life, too.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#209 of 436 Old 07-04-2007, 11:54 AM
 
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Look at your own son. That is exactly how the majority of boys/men are.......good people just trying to figure out life, too.
I see this, but I also see that such a large number of girls and women experience sexual and physical assault. And well... somebody's baby is doing the assaulting.

I do 'get' having caution re: boys and men. This reminds me of the 'would you have a male nanny' thread. I would not.
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#210 of 436 Old 07-04-2007, 11:54 AM
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I agree!! I bet if I made a poll asking members if they consider themselves racist, the percentage would be far, far below the 40% in this thread who would not send their child to an all AA school
It really was a polarized question. Being the ONLY child of a different race is a different question than merely being one of a handful of a different race at a certain school.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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