would you send your caucasian child to an all african american school? - Page 9 - Mothering Forums

View Poll Results: would you send your caucasian child to the school described below?
Yes. 92 27.54%
No. 137 41.02%
Maybe/ not sure. 90 26.95%
Other. 15 4.49%
Voters: 334. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-04-2007, 04:25 PM
 
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The academics were AVERAGE. Not mediocre, not bad, not suck-ish. People are putting their own spin on the school based on stereotypes. That is what sucks, that assumption that all black = mediocre or worse.
Actually, I think what happened is that I came in and posted about my own situation, where the school is 98% AA AND the academics are terrible. And then we got sidetracked talking about that. So I may have contributed to some misreadings, and sent the thread offtrack from its original question, for which I apologize. (I think we all have a tendency to start talking about our own situations.)

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Old 07-04-2007, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Aura_Kitten View Post

I think that girls DO need to be more careful than boys, because last time I checked the rates for sexual assault on girls was hovering around 1 in 4. (Is it discrimination to state statistics?)

.
Then why not say, "I'm afraid of approximately 25% of boys." (And even that would be a high statistic...most rapists are repeat offenders, so it's actually a very small percentage of men doing the raping/assaulting) Saying that you have a fear of all boys (100%) is discrimination.

Saying "I'm afraid of all AA boys" is bad, of course. Saying, "I'm afraid of all boys of all races" is still bad.

And I already said that I understand caution. That's different. I don't understand fear of all boys.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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Old 07-04-2007, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think it's ironic that people are being accused of classism for not wanting to send children to poor schools. I'm poor, the local school in my neighbourhood is poor, and also sucks. Not by coincidence. And I am strategizing to keep my child out of it.

Am I classist? I think not. I think I am avoiding subjecting my child to some of the soul destroying influences that come with poverty. Those things are real, not a figment of privileged people's imaginations.
But I never said this school was poor... in fact my impression is the opposite (though I did not say one way or the other in my first post...I didn't think it mattered). The school seems to be solidly middle if not upper middle class. Of course I can't see the parents' tax forms so I can't be sure.
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Old 07-04-2007, 05:50 PM
 
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I used to teach in a school that had 99% black students. One day one of my Kindergarten students told me she wanted to be moved to another classroom. When I asked her why, she told me she didn't want a white teacher . . . that she should be in the room with the black teacher. (There were 4 Kindergarten classrooms and only one had a black teacher.)
I'm not sure I understand your point. Is this an example to further illustrate my statement?

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Old 07-04-2007, 06:00 PM
 
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I think that girls DO need to be more careful than boys, because last time I checked the rates for sexual assault on girls was hovering around 1 in 4. (Is it discrimination to state statistics?)
Perhaps. But it was brought up in relation to her daughter being te only white girl in an otherwise AA school. Unless the other half of herstatement were, "So I'd only send my daughters to all female schools," then we're still dealing with racism. What about an all black school made her suddenly fear for her daughter's safety?
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:24 PM
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Perhaps. But it was brought up in relation to her daughter being te only white girl in an otherwise AA school. Unless the other half of herstatement were, "So I'd only send my daughters to all female schools," then we're still dealing with racism. What about an all black school made her suddenly fear for her daughter's safety?
And then she "clarified" that she's really afraid of all boys, all the time. Not much better. AND she basically said that AA girls wouldn't bother to be friends with her daughter. That's still racism, I think. Because, hey, some girls might reject her daughter for whatever reason, but others wouldn't, yk?

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Old 07-04-2007, 06:53 PM
 
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I'm not sure I understand your point. Is this an example to further illustrate my statement?

Yep. It seems that little minds are shaped at home, so we'd better all be careful what messages we send, intentionally or otherwise.
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:53 PM
 
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Wow, what a long thread. I haven't read it all so forgive me if I'm coming out of left field. I don't see how being the only white kid is a bad thing if the school is decent. Some kids may already have racist attitudes at a young age, but many don't. And those can change from getting to know those in other racial groups. In our neighborhood, my daughter is the only white kid who goes to the playground. She has made friends regardless, and her whiteness, being exotic around here, has been a kind of door opener, in that when she was very little, other kids would come around to look at her, say aww how cute, etc. She doesn't feel isolated because her friends are her friends. Not her "black" friends, just her friends. We did send her to a magnet montessori school here, and while there were a few other white kids, she wasn't attracted to them. She gavitated to the kids who suited her temperament, who happened to be black. We did take her out because of the awful food and mean director, but at her new school she is the only white kid, and to tell the truth, race wasn't really something I considered when she started there. It's a good school. Not perfect, but the kids are well behaved and the teacher is very kind. DD loves, it, that's what matters the most, I think. She looks forward to school days.

As for the discussion of sexual assault here, I am afraid to even ask how that came up in this thread.

It's sad how much misunderstanding there still is between the races in this country.

I answered maybe.
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:55 PM
 
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If I were to post something that said only African Americans had ever attacked my family it would be racist, and against the UA. Even if it was true it makes the ENTIRE group look bad.
If I were to say only Muslims had ever attacked us and told us that because we're infidels we need to die, I would be labeled racist / prejudiced.

But for some reason it's ok to say Conservative Christians are the ones that have always attacked her? This may be the case FOR HER but in putting it out there in the way that she did it makes the entire body of Conservative Christians look very bad, and I think this kind of thing IS against the UA, whether or not it's ever enforced.



That statement (emphasis mine) really implies that the ultra-conservative Christian folk are mostly all bad.

..... you know?? Can you see where I'm going with this?


Anyway I'll stop taking this so far off topic.
I see exactly where you are going with this.

I am a Christian. I am not attacking all Christians, nor am I attacking Christianity or Christian beliefs. I am attacking the bigotry people have justified with the Bible and I make no apologies for that. People like Jerry Falwell have preached that bigotry under the guise of Christianity and, unless your beliefs are along the same lines as his, you shouldn't be offended. If your beliefs are in line with what he preached, then, sorry, I'm not standing down. It's bigotry and it has no place in this community. I don't care if it's mixed up with the good stuff; once you chew it all up together and spit it back out, it's poison.

The examples you gave were a distraction. You choose your system of beliefs; if you choose bigotry, that's on you. A black person doesn't *choose* his race. It's not the same thing.
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:56 PM
 
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The examples you gave were a distraction. You choose your system of beliefs; if you choose bigotry, that's on you.
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Old 07-04-2007, 07:00 PM
 
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In our neighborhood, my daughter is the only white kid who goes to the playground. She has made friends regardless, and her whiteness, being exotic around here, has been a kind of door opener, in that when she was very little, other kids would come around to look at her, say aww how cute, etc. She doesn't feel isolated because her friends are her friends. Not her "black" friends, just her friends.
Wow, this is really encouraging to read.

I must admit that I am kind of talking out my arse here about this issue. I'm Canadian and we don't have schools that would be all black. We have schools that are very multicultural, where white students are in the great minority, particularly in Toronto which is one of the most multicultural cities on the continent (perhaps the most?? can't remember).

I was imagining that my child could be excluded socially if she were the only white child and everyone else was of the same race/similar cultural backgrounds. However, if she could be included socially I would see it as a really good opportunity, regardless really of academics or school facilities.

Just to be clear also, I'm hearing some ppl referring to possible outcasting of white kids by kids of colour as racism or reverse racism, and I think the idea of reverse racism is one that is really problematic and not valid.
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Old 07-04-2007, 07:37 PM
 
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Wow, what a long thread. I haven't read it all so forgive me if I'm coming out of left field. I don't see how being the only white kid is a bad thing if the school is decent. Some kids may already have racist attitudes at a young age, but many don't. And those can change from getting to know those in other racial groups. In our neighborhood, my daughter is the only white kid who goes to the playground. She has made friends regardless, and her whiteness, being exotic around here, has been a kind of door opener, in that when she was very little, other kids would come around to look at her, say aww how cute, etc. She doesn't feel isolated because her friends are her friends. Not her "black" friends, just her friends. We did send her to a magnet montessori school here, and while there were a few other white kids, she wasn't attracted to them. She gavitated to the kids who suited her temperament, who happened to be black. We did take her out because of the awful food and mean director, but at her new school she is the only white kid, and to tell the truth, race wasn't really something I considered when she started there. It's a good school. Not perfect, but the kids are well behaved and the teacher is very kind. DD loves, it, that's what matters the most, I think. She looks forward to school days.

As for the discussion of sexual assault here, I am afraid to even ask how that came up in this thread.

It's sad how much misunderstanding there still is between the races in this country.

I answered maybe.

Thank you for your post. I think it is a perfect example of when we manage our biases, racism and other isms can be minimize in our children. All children naturally gravitate toward love and acceptance. It's only as we get older and influenced by the fears of our parents, peers and society that prejudices kick in. None of us is immune, but being honest with ourselves is a great first step.

In my world, I found great friends who were white and with whom I developed a great sense of trust and likewise. Yes, I got teased and taunted but the positives far outweighed the negatives. My parents told me that I had no choice but to deal and I did. I am thankful that they did not send me the message that I couldn't cope in that environment or that everyone would treat me the same.

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Old 07-04-2007, 07:47 PM
 
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Yep. It seems that little minds are shaped at home, so we'd better all be careful what messages we send, intentionally or otherwise.
Absolutely.

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Old 07-04-2007, 08:01 PM
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As for the discussion of sexual assault here, I am afraid to even ask how that came up in this thread.

.
Quick synopsis: One poster said she'd be afraid to send her daughter to an all AA school. Then she changed it to being afraid of all boys, not just all AA boys. That got into a discussion of whether or not all boys should be feared.

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Old 07-04-2007, 08:09 PM
 
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Wow, what a long thread. I haven't read it all so forgive me if I'm coming out of left field. I don't see how being the only white kid is a bad thing if the school is decent. Some kids may already have racist attitudes at a young age, but many don't. And those can change from getting to know those in other racial groups. In our neighborhood, my daughter is the only white kid who goes to the playground. She has made friends regardless, and her whiteness, being exotic around here, has been a kind of door opener, in that when she was very little, other kids would come around to look at her, say aww how cute, etc. She doesn't feel isolated because her friends are her friends. Not her "black" friends, just her friends. We did send her to a magnet montessori school here, and while there were a few other white kids, she wasn't attracted to them. She gavitated to the kids who suited her temperament, who happened to be black. We did take her out because of the awful food and mean director, but at her new school she is the only white kid, and to tell the truth, race wasn't really something I considered when she started there. It's a good school. Not perfect, but the kids are well behaved and the teacher is very kind. DD loves, it, that's what matters the most, I think. She looks forward to school days.

As for the discussion of sexual assault here, I am afraid to even ask how that came up in this thread.

It's sad how much misunderstanding there still is between the races in this country.

I answered maybe.

Speaking to this post, an old friend of mine who was white did go to predominantly Black schools on the southside of Chicago and he was one of the most thoughtful and well rounded white men I have ever known. (truly had not a racist bone in his body) Yeah, he encountered a few ignorant folks growing up who gave him crap for being white but overall he never regretted how he went to all black schools. So its entirely possible for a white kid to go o all black schools and have few issues.

Honestly this thread on some levels bugs me because its a reminder once again of how huge race is in America even among people who claim to not be racist and embrace diversity.

I spent most of my grammar school years being the only Black kid in white schools and I adjusted.

More later...

Shay

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Old 07-04-2007, 08:42 PM
 
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Yes, I got teased and taunted but the positives far outweighed the negatives. My parents told me that I had no choice but to deal and I did. I am thankful that they did not send me the message that I couldn't cope in that environment or that everyone would treat me the same.
This is so powerful. The knowledge of knowing how to cope is essential for any child, particularly now days. I (just my humble thought) feel like children of color have to learn these coping skills early because alot that is thrown their way (especially media wise) does not really contribute to building their self esteem. I always try to be as honest as I can with my own dd (7y/o) about race issues when they do come up, simply because I do not want her to be shocked when she enters "the real world". I remember her constantly asking me why her hair doesn't swing and why can't she just wear her hair in a ponytail (she was tired of all her twists in her hair). I told her our hair is different and that we have to care for in a different way, yet despite these differences we are to be proud of who we are.

Instilling this self esteem is a daily ongoing task. I don't know, but I feel like these issues of race really taint the innocence of childhood-but reality is what it is. Perhaps really we are only fooling ourselves if we think that we can protect our children from everything, we can't- but we can support them during their emotional growth.
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:52 PM
 
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I spent most of my grammar school years being the only Black kid in white schools and I adjusted.

More later...

Shay
NAK. I think it's what goes on outside of the classroom (your support system) as much as it is what happens at school. In my example (being one of the only whites) it was not really a problem per se, except that I feel my parents were (are), it seems, ashamed of being white. It was not an issue until I figured it out, so obviously it was not inherent in my schooling. However, since in my microcosm (school and home) I got this message, it was hard to figure out that I am OK as-is. Certainly, I have the greater mainstream to fall back on so it's not like I can feel sorry for myself, but it took me growing up to realize that.

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Old 07-05-2007, 10:12 AM
 
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The academics were AVERAGE. Not mediocre, not bad, not suck-ish. People are putting their own spin on the school based on stereotypes. That is what sucks, that assumption that all black = mediocre or worse.

When I made my original response I was responding too the "average" academics description and the "not so great" facilities which limits somewhat how much an individual child can excell (as opposed to a place with more labs, etc), although I guess it depends on what one means by facilities.

"Average" in this country (and I'm talking about all kinds of schools with all kinds of racial makeups) is generally pretty mediocre. Test scores aren't everything obviously-- which is why the environment (ie, are the teachers pro-academic (ie, don't emphasize sports, etc over academics or just babysit) and pro-learning is important to me. Test scores most likely will go up over time with a very good staff-- maybe at the school they hadn't had time yet to raise their test scores, maybe a high student turnover makes it difficult, but overall the program is very sound. So the declaration of "average" test scores would just make me reserve my judgment until I could know more about the staff and environment, and the school's overall program. I would absolutely send my kid to a school like Garfield (the subject of Stand and Deliver) in LA, for example, which may not have the best overall test scores, but has a wonderful AP program and is definitely pro-learning and is probably almost entirely Latino.
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Old 07-05-2007, 10:52 AM
 
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I wouldn't send my kid to a school with average academics and mediocre facilities, no matter what the racial make-up of the school was.
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:43 AM
 
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I am so trying to catch up here.

Something happened yesterday that brought this thread to mind. There is a local park that for some reason attracts people (immigrants and locals) from all over the world. Yesterday alone, I heard people speaking Italian, Spanish, Russian, and (what do you call the native language of India? Forgive my ignorance!) and English. I have yet to understand where this diversity comes from as the park is a county park, not huge, hard to find unless you know the area and in a town known (albeit it is not this way unless you live there) to be a bit racist.

So I take my kids who are looking for kids to play with. One family is similar in make up as ours Spanish/English speaking, kids range from white with blue eyes, to brown, to very dark brown/black. Quite diverse in features, colors, etc. The girls-several of them-wanted NOTHING to do with my DD. DD was hurt, they were NASTY little people. So the family from India-who-besides the kids, were in traditional garb-sit to eat. The girls were DD age but noone was speaking english. It didn't stop DD from saying Hi. She left with one girls number so they could play again. So again, the group DD culturally/ethnically/etc. is lumped in with openly REJECTED her, while the group who was of different ethnicity/culture openly accepted her. YOU NEVER KNOW.

Quote:
I think I am supposed to believe the following:

1. There is nothing isolating about being the only (white, AA, Asian, queer) kid in an entire school. Such children never face issues because of this situation. They face exactly the same experience as any other kid anywhere.

2. Severe, entrenched poverty has absolutely no effect on children's behavior or achievement. It does not harm children in any way.

3. Test scores, rates of behavior problems, and school reputation mean absolutely nothing about the educational experience a child will have at school. They measure nothing whatsoever.

4. Any child can do just fine in any school. All of us here who are good, upstanding, nonracist, nonclassist citizens would indeed send our kids to any school they were zoned for, no matter what.

I don't buy it.

I beleive the idea is NOT to generalize. You never know! Nothing is a given. I really wish this same poll was posted FIRST without race mentioned. I wonder how different the results would be.

And I thought back, early in grade school my teachers continually told me it was "ashame" I was not of Italian ancestry. Same was said to my sister. My Mom found it funny but for a while we strived to somehow be Italian. Ya never know where biases hide! You may see it as an all white school, but they saw it as a school with mostly Italian (from Italy) teachers and American kids of Italian ancestry. Add I was fat and weird and it was pure hell.
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Old 07-05-2007, 12:39 PM
 
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Now an all Asian school may not be as bad in some of these peoples eyes as in much of this country Asian is equated with: intelligence, good educational values, quiet, calm. A stereotype opposite of the black stereotype. NEITHER are correct.


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For some reason, maybe I'm totally off base, but if this school was primarily Asian American or some other racial group (besides AA or even maybe Latino) then this whole thing wouldn't be an issue. If this school was primarily a white school, with the same stats as given by the op, I think the poll results would be different, thus it only leaves one to conclude that race is a major factor here. Therefore this has led me to wonder-do economically stressed black children differ (behavioral wise) from economically stressed white children? And if so, why?
I realize I'm joining in this discussion rather late. Yes, it is a stereotype that asian americans are, "smart," however I thought I would point out that being the, "model minority" isn't the solution either. In certain areas, such as the silicon valley area, there is now an issue of, "too many asians" in the schools and an exodus of whites from not only the from the schools (sending their kids to private schools, which are primarily white), but the entire community! They are moving out! We're talking about a very desirable place to live, but ppl are moving out, b/c it seems that ppl do not want to live somewhere with a high population of asians.

So, is it b/c the asians americans are bringing down the schools? NO! In fact the schools are excelling academically speaking, they are better than they've ever been. I believe the demographics are about 50/50 asian american and white (so we're not even talking about one white child with everyone else being asian american). So, what's the problem? The problem is that the white parents are complaining that the schools are too good. Gee, with the state of our public schools, you'd think that parents would be thrilled that their kid is in a, "excellent" school district. Well, apparently not. I guess it's only ok to be in a good district if the white students are the ones who are the cream of the crop, not the asian american students. It's not a cultural issue with the asian american students, it comes back to the whole superiority thing. Most whites only want their kids to go to a school that is in a, "good" school district if it also means that it is basically an all white school.

So, basically, you can have an all asian or all AA, or all latino school that excels academically, but it would still be considered undesirable by most whites. It all boils down to skin color, regardless of how, "good" or "bad" a school is, it's just racist. I often get irritated when I hear about parents speaking of how, "diverse" the school is that their child goes to. What is their definition of, "diversity?" Usually, a small sprinkle of asian, latino or AA students, BUT the key is that most parents still prefer that the majority of the student body to be white. I often feel that they only want the token non-white kids at their schools, so that they can brag about how, "diverse" their school is and say that their child is exposed to, "diversity." Well, where we are at, our kids would be the token, "diversity" children. Needless to say, we'll be homeschooling. Diversity at my school consisted of me (and my two siblings) and a few AA kids, that was it. There are those of us who do not have the luxury of choosing a school in which our children would not automatically be the child who sticks out d/t their race.
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Old 07-05-2007, 12:52 PM
 
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Great points mags!

I used Asian as an example of American stereotypes but the likelihood of the general response to the POLL being different if AA is replaced by Asian. I truly believe more of the people responding to the poll, who said NO to the current questions, would CONSIDER the school if it was replaced by Asian. I doubt it would've been assumed poor and bad academically as easily as when the school was all AA. While in reality many would still say No in real life, some would find an all Asian school more acceptable for their white child than an all AA school.
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Old 07-05-2007, 12:59 PM
 
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I put yes. I would send my kids to that school. I should be upfront however, and tell everyone we open enrolled our boys. We live in one school district, but are actually closer to the next district over's school.

So I took my then 4 year old who would be entering K, and toured the schools. One school, the principal couldn't be bothered to meet with me -even though a called a week in advance to set up the tour- I got a wave from her from the office, the secretary was rude, and the ONLY person I like was the school nurse. The elementary school only went to 3rd grade and the kids were let off the bus 20 minutes before the school was opened on the playground, but don't worry... Mrs. So & So is USUALLY there to watch them.

School two. k-12 one building. The kids go straight from the bus to the school. THe principal showed me around, I met every teacher, or just about in the building along with the superintendent of the school.

I let M decide which school he liked better without giving him any of my reservations. He liked school B better as well.

Fast forward 2 yrs and my husband buys an office building in school A's town and because he owns a business is invited to the chamber of commerce. The topic? The school. Apparently the school board is blaming the amount of people open enrolling out of school A in to schools B or C is because of the large hispanic population.

DH is flabbergasted. He tells them that we open enroll our children and why. They say that's interesting and what to call me about OUR concerns that led us to open enroll. You know what? I never heard anything from anyone. They want to blame racism for their educational problems.

It wasn't racism that made us decide against it, and it wasn't racism that made other people I know decide to open enroll either.

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Originally Posted by Aura_Kitten View Post
No way. Why would I choose to send my child to a school with mediocre or poor facilities and only average test scores?

The teachers can be kind and caring as anything but if my kid is sitting in a classroom with flaking asbestos walls and a floor that is letting off formaldehyde or they don't have enough light or textbooks ~ is there really even a comparison?

I don't care if the student body is harvard-worthy, if the facilities are mediocre I wouldn't choose to send my kid there. I've attended bad schools before, where there wasn't funding for textbooks... where the electricity frequently went out due to bad wiring... and I had some great teachers but I don't think children should ever be put in substandard facilities for the majority of their days, you know?

ARGH this could lead to a rant and a half. If I had my choice ALL children would attend schools like that one strawbale Waldorf school featured in Mothering that one time.....


ETA ~ the poll results are going to look extremely skewed because people who just read the title and not the OP are going to think, "Holy cow 50% of MDC'ers are racist!" whereas, your OP isn't about race as much as facilities and staff and academic performance. Just felt the need to point that out.
I don't know that I would call a school with asbestos flaking off of the walls mediocre. I would call that a health hazard and wouldn't send my kids there
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Originally Posted by eclipse View Post
See, I put very little stock into test scores - especially in schools that are all/mostly nonwhite.

And the OP didn't say that the facilities were poor - just mediocre.

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Originally Posted by rabrog View Post
Absolutely not.

When a school is all one race/ethnicity, it develops a culture of it's own around the students. There is no thought of acceptance right away - the different race child will be seen initially (and possibly forever) as "the outsider." In a school where there are many races all the time, a new non-white child is viewed (mostly) as "oh that's the new kid." It's very different being a "new kid" and being a "different kid."

I would not expect warm fuzzies and open arms if I were to send my white child to an Afr. Amer. school. I would be prepared for problems (not expect them, but be prepared).

I'd homeschool first.

Jenn
I don't even understand this. We live in rural Iowa, and sometimes there is only one black kid or one black family in the school. THose kids make friends just fine. I totally don't get why it's assumed that a white kid in a black school would be unable to find likeminded people to befriend.

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Originally Posted by bczmama View Post
I think the big unanswered question in the initial post is economic status. Are the pupils primarily at least middle class with a family expectation that they will attend college (and parents who attended college)? That is the sort of environment that will be more likely to provide the enrichment activities, resources and educational experiences I want my kids to have.
THis is classist and untrue. MOney does not make anyone smarter or better behaved, but it's bandied about as truth through this whole thread.

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Originally Posted by momz3 View Post
Ditto! Luckily we are in a military community and the school my ds will be going to this fall has alot of diversity.

Also I wanted to add this. We are an AA family. My sister lived in a Predominately white neighborhood, job everything when living in Searcy , AR. When she got married, they moved to TN, her son went to an all black school and she hated it. The cursing, the kids not knowing how to count, read, etc.

So she yanked him out and said he will never go to an all black school AND..
yes, he himself is black. He now goes to a school that is predominately white...




Crazy huh..
Bad schools exist everywhere. TN apparently being one of the states with large economically depressed areas seems to have lots of poor white schools as well with many drop outs. At least that's what the documentary I saw on PBS said.

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Originally Posted by loraxc View Post
I know people of color who would not send their kids to an all-white school. Is their behavior shocking, disgusting, abhorrent? I mean, we're lower-middle class...I wouldn't send my kid to a school to a super-expensive boarding school, even without the other baggage, because I think that's a lot for a kid to carry. It's not a question (at least in my case) of my child being "too good for" an all-AA school. It's a question of isolating my child. Like it or not, the current reality is that a child who is significantly different than 98% of his or her peers racially or economically may have trouble at school.



I do understand your POV. I really do. But I'm not sure this is fair to the child. I think the attitude that every child is ordained by God and the universe to attend the school to which he or she is randomly zoned, or else the parents are awful, selfish jerks, is a bit...off. What if your child is literally unsafe at school? What if your child is failing every class, and you know of another school that would suit him/her much better? What if physical discipline is being used at the school (still legal some places)?You keep the child there for the sake of...who?

FTR, the school for which DD is zoned is so poorly rated (it received an "F" from the state last year and is danger of being closed down) that all parents have the legal option of sending their child to a different public school in the city. You have your choice of school, too, although I think there are some numbers limitations.
I don't think it's bad for parents to check out options for schools in their areas, but to make a judgement based on similar ethnicity alone seems headscratching to me.

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Originally Posted by Nikki98 View Post
So true!!!! It is assumed that people act a certain way because of their race but we have to so careful with stereotypes. We may see comedians joke about stereotypes and we laugh because there is a bit of truth to them-but we can not continue to make generalizatons about people. I know when I go the the farmer's market or the Wild Oats I get some looks, that look like "Wow, I didn't know that people of color actually eat healthy foods, they know about supporting local foods, wow!" It just makes me:. Sorry that this is OT. I feel like these stereotypes just hold us captive.
I disagree with this. I think we laugh because they are socially percieved truths about certain ethnicities.

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Originally Posted by bczmama View Post
"I will say also in a genuine question-how can an all white staff cultivate an environment of true learning when it comes to culture, differences etc of there is no true example shown? It cant ALWAYS be beneficial for white people to teach about liberation in Mexico or slavery in ths South.....maybe I am wrong....I really wanna find a ground and stand on it about this."

So only the Jews can teach about the Holocaust

And only someone of French heritage can teach French history

And only someone who is of German heritage can sing Wagner

And only someone who is of English heritage can teach Dickens and Shakespeare.

I find that ridiculous. A good history teacher should be able to teach facts, and then express the different points of view major historians have about those facts. While I agree it is useful to have a diverse faculty for purposes of role-modeling, I do not feel it is necessary from the perspective of "only an African American has the right to teach/can "really" teach the history of the civil rights movement."
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Originally Posted by menudo View Post
If I am correct, the ideal is a diverse staff. Sadly, many kids of color are conditioned to think only white people can be teachers, teach, or be in power when they go to schools where the faculty is all white and the students are not. Having role models from all over the world, of all colors, of all walks of life is a benefit to children. It opens their eyes to THEIR own possibilites, the fact THEY can do it, ANYBODY can do it! Not JUST white people.
What Menudo said. I think the problem lies in never seeing anyone who looks like you in a place of educational authority. You don't aspire to something if you don't see yourself reflected in it because you don't know it's something you CAN aspire towards.

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Originally Posted by Missy View Post
The academics were AVERAGE. Not mediocre, not bad, not suck-ish. People are putting their own spin on the school based on stereotypes. That is what sucks, that assumption that all black = mediocre or worse.
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:

It's lonely being the only XX in a house of XYs.
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Old 07-05-2007, 01:44 PM
 
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Great points mags!

I used Asian as an example of American stereotypes but the likelihood of the general response to the POLL being different if AA is replaced by Asian. I truly believe more of the people responding to the poll, who said NO to the current questions, would CONSIDER the school if it was replaced by Asian. I doubt it would've been assumed poor and bad academically as easily as when the school was all AA. While in reality many would still say No in real life, some would find an all Asian school more acceptable for their white child than an all AA school.
I see your point, but the example I gave above was not a theoretical one. It is really happening. Even if you think that ppl would be more, "ok" with a school with a higher asian american crowd than a AA crowd (and honestly saying which minority group's got it worse than others really leaves a bad taste in my mouth), my point was that in IRL the result is the same.

The white parents/students do not want to go to a school that has a lot of asian americans, just as many do not want to go to schools that are primarily latino or AA. So, my point is that it is merely the idea that the school has a high # of any type of non-white population, even if academic stds are high, white students/parents do not like it when they feel that their position as the majority is threatened. Somehow or another the school ends up being undesirable, based soley on the racial make up of the school. It just goes to show you that when it comes to schools that are not primarily white, the racial aspect is more important to ppl than the academic part of it.
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Old 07-05-2007, 01:55 PM
 
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mags,

I think you missed what menudo was saying. She never said or implied that what you described wasn't a reality. She was saying that, in a *theoretical* situation, the on-line responses would very probably have been different. The gut reaction of many here were blatantly racist, and their responses were justified with the idea that the school must be sub-standard. That assumption alone is racist. Most people wouldn't hold that same steretype about a school comprised of a majority of Asian students. So, yes, while in practice, there's still going to be mass white-flight, a school with that description isn't going to illicit the same on-line gut response.

ETA: That doesn't make the IRL response any better; it just shows that it's easier for people to justify or excuse bigotry against blacks because the accepted stereotypes are so bad. Too many people on this thread honestly cannot fathom how their gut reactions could possibly be racist.
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:07 PM
 
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I see your point, but the example I gave above was not a theoretical one. It is really happening. Even if you think that ppl would be more, "ok" with a school with a higher asian american crowd than a AA crowd (and honestly saying which minority group's got it worse than others really leaves a bad taste in my mouth), my point was that in IRL the result is the same.
I actually agree with all you have said and understand it is NOT theoretical.

I also see it as an "US/WE" (being white people) vs. "THEM" (Non white people) attitude. My view was in theory some people here may find one non white majority more acceptable than another. I said if it became reality, that may/are likely to change. Because "THEY" will take over. "THEY" will have the power "WE" have. "THEY" are out to get "US" because "THEY" feel we have more power-which "WE" don't feel "WE" have but enjoy the privilege of having daily and is what is causing this fear of "THEM". Suddenly "OUR" schools will be "THEIRS". America will not be the same. Diversity and a melting pot is great as long as it is not in "OUR" town/schools. Soon "OUR" kids will think it is actually acceptable to date/marry "THEM". Shall I go on?

As for the bad taste, AMEN. But we are speaking realistically-about how many people see others, especially those in a perceived minority group. 10 years ago it was ok to be middle eastern in much of the USA-hell you were "white", even census statistics said this. That suddenly changed, didn't it? We live these stereotypes. 20 years ago, my teen cousin made a homemade bomb-cause he could. He lost several fingers. Back then he was not in trouble and referred to as a "boy being a boy". No trouble. Nada. He is "half" middle eastern. Back then he was "white". Had this been today, I am sure he'd be investigated in depth as a possible terrorist. Those nice people may respond to him completely differently today because of a STEREOTYPE. And being "white" back then just made him a boy getting into mischief. Had he been black, I am sure he would've saw the inside of a cell.
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:26 PM
 
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Wow, what a long thread. I haven't read it all so forgive me if I'm coming out of left field. I don't see how being the only white kid is a bad thing if the school is decent. Some kids may already have racist attitudes at a young age, but many don't. And those can change from getting to know those in other racial groups. In our neighborhood, my daughter is the only white kid who goes to the playground. She has made friends regardless, and her whiteness, being exotic around here, has been a kind of door opener, in that when she was very little, other kids would come around to look at her, say aww how cute, etc. She doesn't feel isolated because her friends are her friends. Not her "black" friends, just her friends. We did send her to a magnet montessori school here, and while there were a few other white kids, she wasn't attracted to them. She gavitated to the kids who suited her temperament, who happened to be black. We did take her out because of the awful food and mean director, but at her new school she is the only white kid, and to tell the truth, race wasn't really something I considered when she started there. It's a good school. Not perfect, but the kids are well behaved and the teacher is very kind. DD loves, it, that's what matters the most, I think. She looks forward to school days.

As for the discussion of sexual assault here, I am afraid to even ask how that came up in this thread.

It's sad how much misunderstanding there still is between the races in this country.

I answered maybe.

Yes, we have had the same experience with our son. I was very worried that he would feel isolated or be made fun of or excluded from certain groups of kids, but quite the opposite has happened. Our neighbors absolutely love him and even the parents rave about how much they enjoy his company. This is coming from the blacks, hispanics, and haitians in our neighborhood. I mean, these kids come knocking on our door asking if Ellery can come out and play.

Granted, I've heard some of the conversations from the little ones like "my daddy doesn't have a place to live" or "my daddy used to be in jail"...things like that, but as I mentioned earlier, these statements open great dialogue between my son and I when they come up that I wouldn't otherwise think of having.

Now it is very important to me that his innocence is protected as he is only five but so far I haven't seen anything come up that disturbed me. Anything discussing violence or sexuality would probably raise a red flag to me but so far that hasn't happened......

which I think would surprise most well to do white folks who might ride up in our neighborhood looking at some of the houses.

Maybe what I'm trying to say is that poor doesn't always mean bad behavior or bad childhood experiences. Sure, a lot of childhood problems do breed in poverty stricken environments but that isn't to say that all poverty breeds problems.

And I have to throw in a sarcastic statement just for kicks, but IMO, some of these rich white kids ought to go to some of these poorer schools. They might learn a few things about the value of living and how to appreciate what they have.
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:30 PM
 
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Too many people on this thread honestly cannot fathom how their gut reactions could possibly be racist.
I agree with this.

However I also think there are valid reasons to say "No, I probably would not send my child to the school described."

I think we are getting polarized because at least IMO it seems like any of us who say "No," or "Probably not" are being called racist and classist, and some of the valid reasonings are being dismissed as such. I see that as naive, yk? Like, yeah there are a lot of issues in poorer schools! That is true. It is not classist to call it such.

If we could acknowledge some of these things as valid, I think we would be able to seperate them out a bit easier and then look for real racism in our responses. At least I would.
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:36 PM
 
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I think we are getting polarized because at least IMO it seems like any of us who say "No," or "Probably not" are being called racist and classist, and some of the valid reasonings are being dismissed as such. I see that as naive, yk? Like, yeah there are a lot of issues in poorer schools! That is true. It is not classist to call it such.
IMHO, I am reading what people are saying and looking at that poll where the majority have said NO-not maybe. not other, not yes...but a GLARING NO. And most haven't said why-which speaks volumes.

Also, where does it say the school is poor?

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Would you send your caucasian (white) child to a school that, other than your child, has a student body made up of African American children? Your child would be the only white child in the school.

The school has no behavior problems.

The facilities are mediocre/ not so great.

The school has average but not excellent academic performance/ test scores.

The principal and teachers are kind and caring.
It says nothing about rich/poor in the question. OP actually said middle to upper middle class in one of her posts (will find it eventually!). Posters have assumed the school is poor, and one often assumes that is because the stereotype of an AA is that they are poor. This is what is concerning me.
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:37 PM
 
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The class issue got inserted into the discussion when someone talked about her IRL situation.
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