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#61 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 08:27 PM
 
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I am just saying that, if someone is really worried about having the teacher over - on prinicpal - and not for the kinds of reasons you are tlaking about, than they are going to have bigger issues with school in general. Public anything by nature is very invasive. A teacher stopiing by is actually a very small example of that.
I actually find this to be more invasive than anything I've experienced after having my son in the public school system for 9 years (counting kindergarten). I'll make no bones about hating the public school system with a passion...but at least they've kept out of my house.

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Also, as far as other types of teachers, I generally attend the first couple of lessons with my children, if I don't already know the teacher.
I didn't do that for a variety of reasons, and I'm not sure if I ever would.

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But that also means there are going to be aspects of public school that one doens't like, but may have to go along with.
Yes - I actually find the idea of homeschooling to be painful...but not as bad as putting my kids in public school. DS1 would have never set foot in the building, if there hadn't been a legal requirement for it. That doesn't mean I would have allowed the intrusion into our home, though.

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#62 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 08:32 PM
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At a private school my dd attended, the teacher did make a home visit. No big deal.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#63 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 08:35 PM
 
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I've been thinking about this and there are two main things that bother me.

(1) It's mandatory (that's been talked about a lot, so I'll leave it at that).

(2) Judgments will be made. My dd may be very smart and organized, and clean etc., but our home is rather messy and comfortable. Not dirty, not disheveled, not filthy - just a rather messy and comfortable. We co-sleep and have more cats than are technically permitted by ordinance (thanks to the realtor purposely telling us the wrong info when trying to sell us the house). We have two big barky dogs that are really very sweet, but don't seem that way at the fence. The yard is somewhat unkempt because I work pretty long hours, dh works weekends, and neither of us is much of a gardener (working on it, though!). We also live in quite a small house in an overall area with mostly larger, fancier homes. I know for a fact that teachers (and generally all people) do make judgments about families and children based on what they see at the home, whether reasonable or not. We may be perceived in all sorts of ways from the outward appearance of the house that is really inapplicable to the support dd will receive for school, her intelligence, or her social skills. I can't imagine wanting to invite one of my child's teachers to my home, but if I did, I'd want it to be an invitation and on my terms, not sprung on me as a requirement.

I would feel differently if it was something along the lines of, "We've initiated a program at X school that has been very successful in helping students relate to teachers. It's called the Teacher's Visit, and involves you child's teacher coming for a brief, friendly visit to your home to get to know your child a bit better. This is an optional program, but we've found it to be beneficial for students, parents, and teachers. Your child's teacher will contact you to ask whether you'd like to participate and set up an appointment." I'm still not sure if I'd do it or not, but I'd be much more likely to agree to it that when it's presented as mandatory.
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#64 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 08:41 PM
 
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Where in the heck in NC are you?? I think it's weird. I also agree, it's a sneaky underhanded way for teachers to be CPS lapdogs, since they're saying you can't refuse. I am in NC, ds did the early intervention program, he's in public special needs preschool, and this has never come up. Ever. We went to HIS school to see the classroom and meet the teacher, she certainly didn't come to our house.
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#65 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 08:45 PM
 
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umm...a teacher coming to your home for a visit at the beginning of the school year is very much a stranger. You don't know them. Your kids don't know them. That's a stranger. "Stranger" doesn't mean "someone you're never going to get to know" - it means someone you don't currently know.

You think so? I've never had a teacher that came anything close to family in my head, and I can't think of any that I would have called friends, either...plenty of adversaries, and a few semi-benevolent authority figures. Oh - forgot about my grade1/2 teacher. By the time I started grade 2, I was very kindly disposed towards her, but I think that was partly because I was so relieved to have the same teacher. I've never seen any sign of a tendency to see teachers as friends/family on ds1's part, either. He liked his kindergarten teacher okay, didn't like his grade one teacher, didn't mind his grade two teacher. Honestly...I think the only teacher he cared about particularly was his grade three teacher. He's starting ninth grade next Tuesday, and that hasn't changed any.

And, no - I wouldn't have viewed a teacher in my home the same way I'd have viewed a repairman. I could understand why the plumber or electrician was there. Having someone I didn't know, or had met once or twice (if this is after classes have started) coming in and taking pictures would have been beyond weird to me.
Maybe thats part of the problem - teachers should be seen as a friend, etc. And what better way to get to know them than on your childs own turf?

I agree about the pictures, though, whatever ones veiws are on teacher = stranger. Just ask for some, or have the child draw something...
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#66 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 08:49 PM
 
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When I worked for Head Start both the teachers and the family service workers were required to do home visits. Luckily I was the sp ed coordinator and only went on a couple home visits with teachers when we needed to talk to parents about services for their kids and they couldn't make it to the center.

My friend just emailed me that her son's preschool teacher came for a home visit last week.

I'm glad I homeschool because I wouldn't want somebody coming and checking out my house. I've got nothing to hide, I just don't like the invasion of my privacy. Just like I don't like door to door sales people inviting themselves onto my property. I used to be a teacher too and I remember going to homes a handful of times. But I taught sp ed and for a couple kids their beh was so totally different at home than at school that we needed to observe them at home and try to come up with a plan to make school better for them. Also I remember needing to meet with a mom who didn't have transportation, so we went to her house, but we asked if she wanted us to so she wouldn't have to find a ride and she said yes. It was optional.
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#67 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 08:52 PM
 
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I actually find this to be more invasive than anything I've experienced after having my son in the public school system for 9 years (counting kindergarten). I'll make no bones about hating the public school system with a passion...but at least they've kept out of my house.


In my experience, its much more intrusive to have the teachers filling my kisd heads with dogma for 2.5 - 7 hours a day, than one tiny little visit to our home. And they come into your house with homework and with permission slips and pretty much everything else that goes along with it.


I didn't do that for a variety of reasons, and I'm not sure if I ever would.

for your 5 year old? You just drop him or her off with anyone without meeting, sitting in on/observing the teacher of say, karate or something? OR piano?[/

I think we actually feel close to the same way on this issue - the intrusion of government...
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#68 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 08:58 PM
 
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They tried to pull that crap in a few districts we were in. I told them no. End of story.

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#69 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 09:10 PM
 
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The kid is on the teacher's turf all day long, 5 days per week. It seems kind of cool for the teacher to be on their turf to start. But if you don't want them there, can you refuse?

My son's kindergarten teacher did a home visit, but for my daughter's, we lived in a different district and they didn't. The teacher didn't even take a tour of our apartment when she came, she just asked our son to show her some of his favorite things, asked him what he liked to do for fun, etc. She definitely wasn't snooping for CPS - she just wanted to get to know him a bit in an atmosphere where he'd feel more comfortable.

I'm probably wrong, though. I mean, afterall, what CPS does -- non-stop -- is solicit more reports - they are totally under-worked and just love to torture parents for no reason.
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#70 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 09:13 PM
 
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K here are all 8 hours.
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That is ridiculous.
Yep. Same here in TX. That's why DD1 is doing the charter school thing this year. Only 3 of the 4 hours she'd be in school are actually spent in instruction. I realize that K shouldn't be some sort of rigorous study environment, but, if they're going to have her that long I'd rather they be teaching her more than half the time. The way it's set up now it's just state-funded babysitting with a little teaching thrown in.
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#71 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 09:20 PM
 
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I guess it would be okay with me if we also get to take a trip to the teacher's house to visit the teacher's family and take photos. I think that would also be a helpful bonding exercise for the child and open up lines of communication. Then the teacher would be less intimidating to the child.
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#72 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 09:21 PM
 
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I rather like this idea, a bit like the old time village school where the teacher would drop in on various neighbours and so on. It would definitely help for some children to see the teacher as a family friend rather than this alien in front of the classroom.

It would also be a good way to have communication between the teacher and parent.

But then I guess, from other posts I have seen here, that many Americans have a much more "closed" attitude about friends and neighbours. Just dropping in seems to be seen as very bad manners
So I guess the idea of having the teacher over for tea would not appeal.
Do I get to go to her/his house??

if so, then come on in... BUT ONLY if *I* get to go to YOUR house FIRST

All's fair

We aren't "closed" so much as, um, "SUSPICIOUS" (would YOU let George Bush in your house? No? me neither and ANYONE who works for "the man" right now, basically IS GWB in my book! LOL!)

hang in there Elyra! (or wtf ever your name is here! LOL!!! I don't want to use your "real" name!) I think this is weird, weird, weird.. and not just focussed at YOU, I mean weird as in, they think they can look at EVERYone... bleck!
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#73 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 09:31 PM
 
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ECSE did this in our district too. I don't recall if it was mandatory. I'm thinking it wasn't, because that's the part I'd have a problem with myself. Like the OP, we had been dealing with EI in and out of the house for so long it was no big thing. Heck, once I convinced them to combine the home visit and the IEP meeting. (they did 2 visits a year I think).

Now they didn't go wandering around my whole house, nor did they take pictures. I wouldn't have been ok with either of those either. We just sat around the living room and talked, and they tried to engage ds in a few games. Other than the time we had the IEP meeting, it was generally over in about 30-45 min. It was beneficial because ds really does act differently at school and at home, and it gave them more insights into his abilities and personality.

I'd dig a little deeper, see if this is really required before deciding what to do next.
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#74 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 09:37 PM
 
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Granted, I don't use outside schools, but if I did, I would want to know the teacher well, considering how much time my kid would spend with them.



Teachers are far from being random strangers. They have your kid 6-7 hours a day. Kids don't view them the way that they do a cashier or repairman. Teachers have a huge influence and generally are in the "friends and family" category in kids' heads.
Good point.
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#75 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 09:38 PM
 
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I actually find this to be more invasive than anything I've experienced after having my son in the public school system for 9 years (counting kindergarten). I'll make no bones about hating the public school system with a passion...but at least they've kept out of my house.

In my experience, its much more intrusive to have the teachers filling my kisd heads with dogma for 2.5 - 7 hours a day, than one tiny little visit to our home. And they come into your house with homework and with permission slips and pretty much everything else that goes along with it.
My son pays about as much attention to the dogma he's taught at school as I did...which is not bloody much. As for homework, permission slips, etc - they're a huge pain in the butt, and I hate them...but I don't find them intrusive in the way that people coming into my house is.

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I didn't do that for a variety of reasons, and I'm not sure if I ever would.

for your 5 year old? You just drop him or her off with anyone without meeting, sitting in on/observing the teacher of say, karate or something? OR piano?
DS1 started kindergarten at age 5.5. That was his first schooling. We weren't invited to sit in. I met the teacher briefly and stayed for the first few minutes, to see that he was settled in and okay emotionally (he thought it was a great adventure) and to see what the teacher's style was like - then I went and found something to occupy myself (grocery shopping, I think). The only other courses he took were Tae Kwon Do (started at age 9) and swimming (age 8)...and I sat in on those lessons, because I couldn't really have done anything in the time available, anyway. DS1 couldn't have cared less whether I was there or not for those, and would have let me know if he was unhappy about anything in the class. There was absolutely no reason for me to be there, though.

When he started grade one, I'd long since gone back to work full time (I quit right before he started kindergarten, but was only unemployed - except for temp jobs - for three months), and was pretty much running to catch my bus after dropping him off every morning. Hanging around in the classroom wasn't an optionl.

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#76 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 09:40 PM
 
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Throw your tomatoes this way... I teach 6th grade math, and no, we are not required to visit kids' homes. I would hate for it to be mandated because I see how parents feel about it. On the other hand, I would love for it to be mandated, because I myself am too shy to call up and say "Do you mind if I visit you and your kid before school starts?"

I don't think the reasons for the visits are to find out information for CPS. It feels "Big Brotherish" to people because they look at it as "government is coming in". I am NOT the government. I am a person with a heart, and dreams, and love of puzzles, fascination of mathematics, and shockingly enough, I truly care for your kids. I want them to learn, I want them to love being in my classes, I want them to remember me.

I would only go to your house to get to know the family and see the kid being silly and giddy showing me around, and getting to know me, as I am getting to know him/her.

At the same time, it is painful to realize that many parents feel this defensive about their kids' teachers. I would never go to your house to judge your lifestyle, or your parenting, or your child, or your pooping cat. I am a human being with a messy house myself, and would never show up without scheduling it ahead of time, but wouldn't it be great if I was seen not as an enemy but as a person who, believe it or not, grows to love your kids and cares for their pains and joys, and wants to see them laughing, and discovering the world, and is proud to be a part of their life, and is honored to realize that your child cares for my opinion on my favorite books and movies, and color of socks.

Try to open your mind about this visit. If you feel defensive - nothing good will come of it, and OF COURSE you can refuse it (I can't imagine anyone coming through your door if you don't want them around). It is your house and you have the right for your privacy to be respected.

I only wish parents wanted me around... Warmed my heart when a student's mom offered me salmon her son caught this summer. Little things like that make my day.

New endeavor coming soon...
Raising Alice in Wonderland (DSD, 17), and in love with a Superman
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#77 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 10:15 PM
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The "thinly veiled CPS" thing is crap, IMO. Don't read so much into a home visit. If there is a threat in the home, the teacher is going to get far more information from the child at school, outside of the home, than coming to the home.

It's just to get to know the child, to associate the teacher in the child's world - nothing more.

Jenn
It doesn't matter if it's crap.
When the government, in the person of the teacher backed up by the school, decides it will enter your house without asking your permission, with no warrant, with no reason, with no INVITATION, it's at the very least a violation of good manners and that is reason enough to say no.
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#78 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 10:21 PM
 
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Anyone who is a mandated reporter is "the man" as far as I'm concerned.

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#79 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 11:28 PM
 
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I think it's a fantastic way to get a bond started between the student and teacher, and for the teacher to get a realistic idea of the child's home life. If you ever read Neufeld's Hold On to Your KIds, he actually describes this very set-up (teacher visiting their future student in their home) as being ideal.
I just read the book, and that was my thought too.

The taking of photos does seem inappropriate, though.

I wonder if the "mandated" issue might have evolved in response to a consensus that a home visit could be really useful in developing a bond with the child, but it is a lot of work. Transportation time to each home, staying 15-20 minutes for 25 kids is above the call of duty for a teacher
So, perhaps the board integrated it into the program so the teachers could be paid for time doing the visits. It might be a case of standard, but not mandatory.
I might be 100% wrong on this though. I know nothing about the NC education system.

Oriole, you sound like a fantastic teacher!

Mama to my 2 boys
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#80 of 177 Old 08-28-2007, 11:29 PM
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I've been thinking about this and there are two main things that bother me.

(1) It's mandatory (that's been talked about a lot, so I'll leave it at that).

(2) Judgments will be made. My dd may be very smart and organized, and clean etc., but our home is rather messy and comfortable. Not dirty, not disheveled, not filthy - just a rather messy and comfortable. We co-sleep and have more cats than are technically permitted by ordinance (thanks to the realtor purposely telling us the wrong info when trying to sell us the house). We have two big barky dogs that are really very sweet, but don't seem that way at the fence. The yard is somewhat unkempt because I work pretty long hours, dh works weekends, and neither of us is much of a gardener (working on it, though!).
Not judging, but sympathizing. This reminds me of Flylady's acronym of CHAOS........which stands for Can't Have Anybody Over Syndrome.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#81 of 177 Old 08-29-2007, 12:05 AM
 
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Anyone who is a mandated reporter is "the man" as far as I'm concerned.
The ENTIRE state of Indiana is "the man"?

Here, the "mandatory reporting" laws do not have anything to do with job description, our laws here are that ALL adults are mandatory reporters. This applies to both child abuse AND elder abuse.

I am NOT the man.

CPST
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#82 of 177 Old 08-29-2007, 12:08 AM
 
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i remember (waaaay back when) when i worked in a special ed preschool that home visits were part of the package. but that was special ed- not disctrict wide! it seems very odd to me.
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#83 of 177 Old 08-29-2007, 12:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Sorry it's taken so long for me to get back to this.

There are a lot of good points made on many levels here.

My initial reaction when she told me, was a wth. Then my stomach clenched up and I didn't have warm fuzzies. That was my first instinctual response. The one I do not have voluntary control over.

My more rational mind says no biggy. I *like* his teachers a great deal. In fact I had already put them on the invite list for ds's birthday party. What's different in our case is that this is ds's 2nd year with the same teachers. He knows them, the classroom, they know him and all of his asd traits, the teachers and I see each other 2x a day where they have always taken just a few moments to brief me on his day, and I always do the same in the mornings as to his mood and how sensory effected he is that morning. Anchoring communication in my case was a joke! We have an already set relationship and my ds loves them. I don't care if they come over, I do care that they are pushing it on everyone. AND from what they were saying was if you don't comply you kid could lose their spot because they have so many on the wait list. Like only if you play by their rules you can get in. We don't anyway. The school is really really really familiar with me, and all of our little......differences. We (the school and my family) have a good relationship tho.)

I don't feel his teachers are strangers. But in the beginning of the year, most of the time they are. I was lucky to have ds1's teacher become my friend during the year, and we got our children together, we spend time together, my family is welcome in her home and her family is welcome in my home. Just as a matter of the mandatory reporters, not only is she a teacher, but her dh is a local police officer. So it's not a matter of me being uncomfortable with that in our case. Again it's the tone I feel the school is using.

Now pictures, not going to happen. I don't give the schools consent to ever use likeness of my children in any form, video, still, drawings whatever. I have my own reasons for that, but I make sure they know in writing and do sign all the forms that I decline.

I do worry about teachers assessing risk factors for families in general. It just *feels* wrong to me, and that's why I posted to kind of get an idea of is it just me?

I am in NE NC in a small town. It's near Virginia. The school is a PreK-3rd grade primary school.

For us ds went 3 hours last year. He will start the same 3 hours as per his current IEP, but we will be trying full day to see how he does after our IEP meeting. He craves the structure and routine, and I am too fluid and relaxed at home to give it to him. I try, but it is a conflict of my personality traits and it ends up just with both him and myself melting down. So all in all I am happy with this school based on our experiences from last year both with my ds1 and ds2.

Oriole you sound like you really appreciate your role in helping to guide children. Thank you. Your perspective is very welcome in this thread, no tomatoes from me.
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#84 of 177 Old 08-29-2007, 12:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
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i remember (waaaay back when) when i worked in a special ed preschool that home visits were part of the package. but that was special ed- not disctrict wide! it seems very odd to me.

You know what, I actually expected this since we work hand in hand with special ed. That's how I fostered a friendship with the ladies in that dept. But it really does seem off to me just because.
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#85 of 177 Old 08-29-2007, 12:31 AM
 
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I remember my Kindergarten teacher coming to visit me at my house. I was SOOOO excited and when she finally pulled up I was beside myself. I think it was the most exciting thing that happened to me in elementary school.

this was my daughter. she even arranged things in her room so that the teachers would see them good

we had home visits when she started 4K (at public school) & then when she started kindergarten
this year she started 1st grade & weve moved since last year..she was upset that her teachers wouldnt get to come see her new room,pool, bunk bed..etc

I liked the visits.. felt like i knew the teachers who would be caring for her better.
we went to open house this year & it was very busy..i didnt get to talk to her teacher much.. if i didnt allready know the teacher (i watch her kids in my nursery at the ymca) i would have been more bothered by not having the time to talk & get a sense of who she was
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#86 of 177 Old 08-29-2007, 11:34 AM
 
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I would be totally squicked out, but not for CPS reasons. I think it would cement in the teacher's mind the differences between the kids (economically and socially) that would not necessarily be so obvious in class.

I know in this area, we are in a bottom-rung house (which still cost $300K). We were told there was hardwood under the carpet, so almost a year ago we ripped up all the carpet. Yes, hardwood--with a thick layer of tar (old linoleum adhesive) on it. We can't afford the four grand to re-lay floor, and we're allergic to carpet, so we have the ugliest and yuckiest floor in the world right now. Every piece of furniture is old and nothing matches right; it's clean but very definitely the opposite of luxurious. There's no lack of dog and cat hair floating through the air. If my kids' teachers came into this house, especially after being in the $1.2 million houses owned by several classmates, there is NO WAY they wouldn't associate this house or my unfashionable clothes or a hundred other things with my children, no matter how neatly dressed and pressed and organized my kids are when they walk into the classroom.

Teachers are human. I taught too. In the classroom, aside from kids who are obviously not even getting their hair brushed in the morning they're basically coming in on a more or less even footing. After I'd been invited over to a few homes, it really was impossible for me to not picture little Davie waking up in his 250-sq-ft room with his bed shaped like a pirate ship. Honestly, AS A TEACHER if I wanted to get to know kids before school I'd much rather have a "tea" with parents and prospective students at the school, or at a park, or something like that. I didn't like knowing so much about kids' monetary and social advantages, or lack thereof.
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#87 of 177 Old 08-29-2007, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It is very timely that you make this point.

Today was therapy day, adn while our theaprist was here for ds3 she is sweet to take on both ds2 and ds3 since she did ds2's therapy last year.

Ds2 tells her that "Mrs. X and Mrs. Y are coming to my house tomorrow." He is very informative so it wasn't said as and exicted thing, it was on the same level of my mom is wearing the same clothes as yesterday and I ate bacon for breakfast tone.

The EI therapist who does dozens and dozens of in home vists daily was appalled!!! That was surprising to me. I really thought she would give me great insight as to why this is a good thing. The first thing she said was "why so they can come in and start judging?" and added "teachers are only human, they see something they don't like and it will get passed along." And my favorite things was what happens if they ask to go to the bathroom and get shown to the out house." Yes, we live in a place where outhouses are common.

We live in a very poor area in general. She was saying how parents are going to have to miss work and what about the kids that live in houses that aren't nice and told me about a client that lost part of the roof of their trailer in a tornado a couple of weeks ago. She has personally called several government agentices for help, but no one says they qualifiy for their assistance. There is no money to fix it, and the best anyone could do was The Red Cross donated the tarps they put over the roof.

What about the children that live there? If a teacher comes in a sees that condition are they required to report it to cps? I love our therapist, and perhaps she is required to as well, but she is the one making contact to help them get help. So I admire her for what she is doing.
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#88 of 177 Old 08-29-2007, 12:36 PM
 
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My dd's school does this, but it's a choice of the teacher if they want to do it. Dd's preschool teacher (she isn't real touchy feely) didn't do this. BUT her Kinder did, and a couple of weeks ago her first grade teacher came for a visit. It was nice, short maybe 30-40 minutes, and dd was SO excited that her teacher came to see HER! They talked about school, and the differences between first and Kinder. Then the teacher gave me some information, and papers so I could have them ready for registration and wouldn't have to fill them out at the school.

I don't really look at it as a big brother issue. I think it really does benefit the child. I think that with all the issues with education teachers are looking for better ways of connecting with their students.

-Janna, independent mother of dd, Ms. Mattie Sky born on my 25th birthday, 06*23*2000. My Mama Feb.21,1938-Sept.10,2006
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#89 of 177 Old 08-29-2007, 12:47 PM
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Sooo, um what happens if you say thanks but NO THANKS?
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#90 of 177 Old 08-29-2007, 01:14 PM
 
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My friend's ds' pre-k teahcer came to visit. The theory is it makes the kiddos more comfortable seeing and relating to the teacher at school after seeing and playing with the teacheri n "his space". ILess of a stranger in a strange place feeling the 1st day of school. It wasn't an inspection. The teacher came in sat in the living room and chatted and played with the kiddo for about 45 min .
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