Anyone not Catholic in Catholic school? - Mothering Forums

Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 31 Old 03-06-2008, 12:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
splotchy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wondering what experiences a child would have in Catholic school if they aren't Catholic. Looking at a possibility of a Catholic school for DS. We are Christian, so the concepts taught wouldn't be totally foreign. Just curious of others experiences.
splotchy1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 31 Old 03-06-2008, 10:05 PM
 
ChristyM26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kannapolis, NC
Posts: 1,924
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I did not, but my DH, who isn't Catholic went to a Catholic high school and one of my friends, who is Jewish, actually went to a Catholic high school. Neither one of them had any real issues. Of course, they had to do the religion classes like all the other students but both of them (and they went to different schools) said they did a good bit of discussion about other religions. Neither one had any experience with lower grades, though, so that may be worth looking into. I think, since you are Christian, that you wouldn't have to many issues. HTH.

Mama to Aeden, : my little NICU grad and Conner and Liam () my precious twins. is due mid April!
ChristyM26 is offline  
#3 of 31 Old 03-06-2008, 10:15 PM
 
kmeyrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,813
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That's very common to have non-Catholics in Catholic schools. I was one non-Catholic student. This was back in the 80's, and they had the insensitivity to have ALL the kids go to observe communion, but only Catholic kids participate. So we non-Catholics (Hindus, Muslims, Jews, and Protestants) sat in the pews and watched the special Catholics kids receive a special ceremony that was never explained to us. I remember asking why the rest of us didn't get to have communion, and I was told it was because I wasn't Catholic. So I wasn't allowed. I felt like I was being told I didn't deserve communion. If they were going to take money from non-Catholic families, they should have had more sensitivity.

That was unique to that school. I doubt they still do it. I think you can ask the percentage of non-Catholic kids going, and would your kid be the odd one out in the school culture and events? I doubt you'll have problems like mine.
kmeyrick is offline  
 
#4 of 31 Old 03-06-2008, 11:02 PM
 
MattBronsil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There are many students in Catholic schools that are not Catholic. I was fine with it and actually enjoyed the religion classes.

The communion thing wasn't explained well to the person above as far as why Catholics are the only ones taking communion in a Mass. That is the focal mystery of the Mass and it is something that should be participated in by those that have a definite belief in the miracle of the changing of the bread and wine. I do not partake of it because I'm not Catholic and hold different beliefs about different aspects of communion. To partake and not believe would not be polite.
MattBronsil is offline  
#5 of 31 Old 03-07-2008, 12:49 PM
 
marybethorama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western MD
Posts: 3,376
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There are many others in our school who aren't Catholic or who no longer attend church. It's not a big deal for us. Our school is officially open to everyone though there are religion classes and they do attend mass.
marybethorama is offline  
#6 of 31 Old 03-07-2008, 09:16 PM
 
WC_hapamama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,604
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My DH went through 13 years of Catholic school, but is Buddhist (raised that way). K-12th... parochial school then a Catholic boys high school. He's told me that the religion classes and going to services didn't bother him.
WC_hapamama is offline  
#7 of 31 Old 03-08-2008, 12:04 AM
 
Lingmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My daughter went to the first semester of Kindergarten in a Catholic school. We're Episcopalian and I thought it would be pretty similar. I tried hard to like it, but we didn't have great experiences overall. To be fair, it wasn't really religion that was the main problem. There were a few religious points, however, that I wasn't entirely comfortable with..., like when my 5 yr old daughter came home talking about her "guardian angel who protects her from death." It might have just been our school though.
Lingmom is offline  
#8 of 31 Old 03-11-2008, 07:32 PM
 
oceanbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 11,167
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBronsil View Post
There are many students in Catholic schools that are not Catholic. I was fine with it and actually enjoyed the religion classes.

The communion thing wasn't explained well to the person above as far as why Catholics are the only ones taking communion in a Mass. That is the focal mystery of the Mass and it is something that should be participated in by those that have a definite belief in the miracle of the changing of the bread and wine. I do not partake of it because I'm not Catholic and hold different beliefs about different aspects of communion. To partake and not believe would not be polite.
I understand what you are saying about participating in mass, and while I agree, there are other options. I am not Catholic, but I have been to Catholic cermonies (funerals, weddings) and during communion the Father said that anyone who was not Catholic was welcome to come through the line and receive a blessing instead, if they so desired. I did, and thought it was wonderful.
oceanbaby is offline  
#9 of 31 Old 03-12-2008, 01:39 AM
 
Belleweather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Heart of the Heartland
Posts: 3,197
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I went to a Catholic college, and was absolutely blown away by the quality of the education that my fellow students who had gone to Catholic school throughout their education had.

I also had a fantastic series of classes on Islam and on Eastern religion and philosophy, so the education certianly wasn't of the "one true faith" variety. It's something we're strongly considering for DS, depending on his learning style.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Spending all of my money and time on this wild, wild life.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Belleweather is offline  
#10 of 31 Old 03-12-2008, 03:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
splotchy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks everyone! These have been very intersting insights!
splotchy1 is offline  
#11 of 31 Old 03-13-2008, 10:22 PM
 
kmeyrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,813
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBronsil View Post
There are many students in Catholic schools that are not Catholic. I was fine with it and actually enjoyed the religion classes.

The communion thing wasn't explained well to the person above as far as why Catholics are the only ones taking communion in a Mass. That is the focal mystery of the Mass and it is something that should be participated in by those that have a definite belief in the miracle of the changing of the bread and wine. I do not partake of it because I'm not Catholic and hold different beliefs about different aspects of communion. To partake and not believe would not be polite.
Fair enough. But the Mass should have been done privately. All the young kids could see was that Catholic kids got a beautiful, special ceremony, and we had to sit in our seats and be respectful while wondering why the read of us weren't allowed to participate.

Like I said, I think few, if any Catholic schools today would be insensitive this way.
kmeyrick is offline  
#12 of 31 Old 03-14-2008, 10:53 PM
 
shelbean91's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 9,290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Catholic schools still have mass. Non Catholics are still not permitted to take communion. It's because of the beliefs of what communion is, not to exclude others.

Michelle -mom to Katlyn 4/00 , Jake 3/02, and Seth 5/04
shelbean91 is offline  
#13 of 31 Old 03-15-2008, 04:32 AM
 
MilkTrance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: a small, old house
Posts: 5,022
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The Catholic school I attended still had mass. Catholics believe that the communion IS the body and blood of Christ, so no, non-Catholics absolutely cannot take part. And it's not to hurt anyone's feelings or exclude anyone.
MilkTrance is offline  
#14 of 31 Old 03-15-2008, 05:02 AM
 
MattBronsil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmeyrick View Post
Fair enough. But the Mass should have been done privately. All the young kids could see was that Catholic kids got a beautiful, special ceremony, and we had to sit in our seats and be respectful while wondering why the read of us weren't allowed to participate.

Like I said, I think few, if any Catholic schools today would be insensitive this way.
To me, it seems insensitive the way you're suggesting, actually.

Part of growing up in the world is realizing that there are certain religious things that you're simply not a part of outside of an observer. I cannot join the Chinese Bai Bai that goes down the street outside my apartment to carry the gods to the temple. I'm not Buddhist...it's not my place.

I can observe it. I may enjoy it. I just don't go rushing into the middle of it like it's my ceremony. I respect it as an outsider and enjoy the ceremonies I do have. To think I should be a part of it, or to think I should be excluded from the rest of the celebration, just because I disagree seems to suggest a lack of respect towards the faith itself and the culture.

I say this as a Protestant who did NOT take communion in the Catholic Ceremonies at school.

Matt
MattBronsil is offline  
#15 of 31 Old 03-15-2008, 03:23 PM
 
kmeyrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,813
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBronsil View Post
To me, it seems insensitive the way you're suggesting, actually.

Part of growing up in the world is realizing that there are certain religious things that you're simply not a part of outside of an observer.

Matt
What I'm arguing for is child appropriate ways of learning about the world. A school should always be inclusive, not selectively so. We didn't learn about other faiths of the other students. We were always told Mass wasn't for us because we weren't Catholic, but weren't told anything like "But would you like to share the story of Purim with us?" There was always an undertone that the non-Catholics were outsiders in their own school.

It doesn't matter what the intent was, it matters how the children felt. Obviously sharing the world and learning respect is important. But it should be done sensitively and yes, we should do it in a way respectful to a child's ability to understand the world. To focus on certain kids and have little to say to the others is not sensitive nor is it respectful. And no, the kids don't learn anything.

I think the Mass ceremonies should have been held privately, since it's fair that non-Catholics shouldn't participate. But then, why did all the non-Catholics have to sit in the back and watch?

I don't think I'm being insensitive at all. There are so many positive ways to teach about different religious beliefs, without the exclusion or subtle implication that one belief is superior to another. My school 20 years ago should have done things differently.
kmeyrick is offline  
#16 of 31 Old 03-15-2008, 09:32 PM
 
shelbean91's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 9,290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Non Catholics can still attend and be part of mass, just not take communion. The communion portion of mass is less than 10-15 minutes.

Michelle -mom to Katlyn 4/00 , Jake 3/02, and Seth 5/04
shelbean91 is offline  
#17 of 31 Old 03-16-2008, 10:57 AM
 
onlygirls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 540
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I went to a Catholic school in the 80's and was not Catholic. I liked my teachers and classmates, but not going to mass. We would have mass for our class every week and "all school mass" for religious holidays.

I was frequently chosen to read at mass and hated it. But if I did not read, I had to sit with one other girl who was not Catholic during communion. I felt like an outcast. The hardest time was when our class did the First Communion. We were totally left out and it was awkward. My Mom was going to have me baptized so that I could participate, but I did not express an interest and thankfully she did not push the situation. I would have gone through the same thing with Confirmation. Most of my friends went on to a Catholic high school.

When I got older, we moved and I attended public school which was a shock because of the large class sizes. I prefer the atmosphere of the private schools, but not necessarliy Catholic.

If I were to consider a Catholic school for my child, I would inquire as to how many non-Catholic children attend the school. At some schools they make you pay more if you are not Catholic.

Mama to 3 amazing girls
onlygirls is offline  
#18 of 31 Old 03-17-2008, 01:45 AM
 
MattBronsil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmeyrick View Post
What I'm arguing for is child appropriate ways of learning about the world. A school should always be inclusive, not selectively so. We didn't learn about other faiths of the other students. We were always told Mass wasn't for us because we weren't Catholic, but weren't told anything like "But would you like to share the story of Purim with us?" There was always an undertone that the non-Catholics were outsiders in their own school.

It doesn't matter what the intent was, it matters how the children felt. Obviously sharing the world and learning respect is important. But it should be done sensitively and yes, we should do it in a way respectful to a child's ability to understand the world. To focus on certain kids and have little to say to the others is not sensitive nor is it respectful. And no, the kids don't learn anything.

I think the Mass ceremonies should have been held privately, since it's fair that non-Catholics shouldn't participate. But then, why did all the non-Catholics have to sit in the back and watch?

I don't think I'm being insensitive at all. There are so many positive ways to teach about different religious beliefs, without the exclusion or subtle implication that one belief is superior to another. My school 20 years ago should have done things differently.

I find both disrespectful. I find the way they handled it most disrespectful, since they had the ability to better educate you.

I do not think you should have been excluded from attending the ceremony. That is more inappropriate. I think they should have educated you more clearly about it, which was clearly NOT done.

Matt
MattBronsil is offline  
#19 of 31 Old 03-18-2008, 06:40 PM
 
kmeyrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,813
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBronsil View Post
I find both disrespectful. I find the way they handled it most disrespectful, since they had the ability to better educate you.

I do not think you should have been excluded from attending the ceremony. That is more inappropriate. I think they should have educated you more clearly about it, which was clearly NOT done.

Matt
Well, I was educated by my parents about several religions as a child, I wasn't ignorant. I am not ignorant still. But a six/seven year old is more inclusive than adults. I felt bad that I had to watch the ceremony but was not welcome to participate, and I felt sorry for my friends (who were often Hindu or Muslim) who had to go through the same thing. To a child, what is right and kind is to invite everyone in something that is important and beautiful. If that wasn't possible then the ceremonies should have been held privately after school. There was a subtle message sent that several parents, even Catholic ones complained about. (Plenty of Catholic parents who were more considerate than the administrators). Insisting that non-Catholics watch a ceremony that they cannot participate in is inappropriate. It's almost proselytizing, come to think of it. Some of the bully kids who could get communion would make snitty comments about how we weren't saved, we weren't as good as them, garbage like that, making the rest of us feel like crap. Bullies happen anywhere in any content, but still.

I think if a school wants to be religious, than they should have a right to be so. However, if you want a diverse school, then you should be considerate of people's diversity. We had students who were Hindu- how come we didn't learn about Hinduism? Or Islam? Or Judaism? Or Buddhism? (It was an international school.) If you want to be diverse, you need to learn about the beliefs of all, not just shushing a child and changing the subject.

We had a golden opportunity to share and learn to be sensitive (I did in a hard way) but instead some kids were left out and made to feel like they didn't fit in. And that was a message sent by the SCHOOL!

I am well educated. I have always been surrounded by diverse people, and I had outstanding parenting. The school I went to had great teachers. We had great resources (some of which lay fallow). I think the administrators were insensitive and spoke out of both side of their mouths. They said they wanted diversity but didn't want to put effort into it.
kmeyrick is offline  
#20 of 31 Old 03-19-2008, 01:02 AM
 
shelbean91's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 9,290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So, you are saying a school should be religious, but exclude one of the very factors that make the foundation of that religion because someone who is NOT of that religion MIGHT be offended or feel left out? That makes no sense to me. No, communion should not be regulated to outside of school time- if a mass is held, communion will happen. Anyone not catholic doesn't get it. Anyone catholic who hasn't had a first communion also won't get it.

If I want a specific religious education, than I want that education. Period. I don't want a watered down version b/c someone of another faith happens to be there. Whatever religion that is. Doesn't matter. If I want a diverse school, I'll choose an international school or public school is even more diverse that a Catholic school or a Jewish school or any other religion.

Michelle -mom to Katlyn 4/00 , Jake 3/02, and Seth 5/04
shelbean91 is offline  
#21 of 31 Old 03-19-2008, 10:51 AM
 
Emmeline II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelbean91 View Post
So, you are saying a school should be religious, but exclude one of the very factors that make the foundation of that religion because someone who is NOT of that religion MIGHT be offended or feel left out? That makes no sense to me. No, communion should not be regulated to outside of school time- if a mass is held, communion will happen. Anyone not catholic doesn't get it. Anyone catholic who hasn't had a first communion also won't get it.
Doesn't make sense to me either; though I think all children should understand what the rituals are even if they cannot participate.

From a Catholic school mission statement:
Quote:
The school strives to provide an atmosphere of Catholic community, integrating religion and life, so that the student may "...experience learning and living fully integrated in the light of faith."

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
Emmeline II is offline  
#22 of 31 Old 03-19-2008, 02:31 PM
 
ccohenou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 1,666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmeyrick View Post
Fair enough. But the Mass should have been done privately. All the young kids could see was that Catholic kids got a beautiful, special ceremony, and we had to sit in our seats and be respectful while wondering why the read of us weren't allowed to participate.

Like I said, I think few, if any Catholic schools today would be insensitive this way.
No, this is still the practice. It's not meant as an insult to non-Catholics, but it is a Catholic school so if you're not okay with Catholic practice going on (including Catholic-only communion), it might not be a good fit. There will also be sacramental preparation for first communion, first reconciliation, possibly confirmation, that non-Catholics would not participate in. There will be specifically Catholic prayers and teachings (about Mary and the Saints, and the Mass and Eucharist, for instance).
With that said, there are a fair number of non-Catholic students at our Catholic school, so I don't think anyone would necessarily feel like the lone non-Catholic outcast.
ccohenou is offline  
#23 of 31 Old 03-20-2008, 09:29 PM
 
kmeyrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,813
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccohenou View Post
No, this is still the practice. It's not meant as an insult to non-Catholics, but it is a Catholic school so if you're not okay with Catholic practice going on (including Catholic-only communion), it might not be a good fit. There will also be sacramental preparation for first communion, first reconciliation, possibly confirmation, that non-Catholics would not participate in. There will be specifically Catholic prayers and teachings (about Mary and the Saints, and the Mass and Eucharist, for instance).
With that said, there are a fair number of non-Catholic students at our Catholic school, so I don't think anyone would necessarily feel like the lone non-Catholic outcast.
I appreciate that Catholic schools are in an awkward position- their purpose is to educate child via the Catholic faith. But in order to survive, most of them have to take in students who are not of the faith. Often, Catholic families in my area are able to get a discount or scholarship because of the presence of non-Catholic students, who have to pay full price. (Which is fine.) That's important in my area which is not at all wealthy. Since they do have many non-Catholic students, they owe it to these families to be considerate. I think morning prayers are fine, Catholic art (which has been the finest in the world) on the walls, statues, etc. I think the perfect compromise would be to hold Mass after school for all Catholic students. Making non-Catholics watch every week is pointless.

The Catholic schools want non-Catholics because they need them. If they took in Catholics only they would go bankrupt. But since their clientèle is more diverse, their policies should reflect that.

There are Protestant schools that somehow don't have diversity- they seem to be self-sustained with non-denominational yet Christian only students. I like that Catholic schools offer more but I would like them to take the next step.
kmeyrick is offline  
#24 of 31 Old 03-20-2008, 11:22 PM
 
MattBronsil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmeyrick View Post
I appreciate that Catholic schools are in an awkward position- their purpose is to educate child via the Catholic faith. But in order to survive, most of them have to take in students who are not of the faith. Often, Catholic families in my area are able to get a discount or scholarship because of the presence of non-Catholic students, who have to pay full price. (Which is fine.)
They also do so to have a diverse group. The Catholic Schools are proud of their diversity.

Quote:
That's important in my area which is not at all wealthy. Since they do have many non-Catholic students, they owe it to these families to be considerate. I think morning prayers are fine, Catholic art (which has been the finest in the world) on the walls, statues, etc. I think the perfect compromise would be to hold Mass after school for all Catholic students. Making non-Catholics watch every week is pointless.
It's a total of 5 minutes every mass. We're "protecting" our students from 5 minutes out of a month to take away from the other benefits the ceremony has to offer just because some people don't like 5 minutes of it? I find that pointless.

Quote:
The Catholic schools want non-Catholics because they need them. If they took in Catholics only they would go bankrupt. But since their clientèle is more diverse, their policies should reflect that.
They do reflect that.

Quote:
There are Protestant schools that somehow don't have diversity- they seem to be self-sustained with non-denominational yet Christian only students. I like that Catholic schools offer more but I would like them to take the next step.
The next step...forwards or backwards?
MattBronsil is offline  
#25 of 31 Old 03-21-2008, 09:12 PM
 
kmeyrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,813
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Communion may only be five minutes, but the Mass itself is longer. Furthermore, the time length is irrelevant. School prayers in public schools were only five minutes long and that was declared unconstitutional. Even though it was such a "little thing" as conservatives feel, it put non-Christian and non-believers in a sticky position. Either they pray along with something they don't believe, or be outsiders in their own school. With a private school, the same rules don't apply, but the same value can- it is unfair to put others in awkward positions.

I am aware that Catholic schools are proud of their diversity- it is a quality that many private schools don't have. I think any Catholic school worth its salt will have religion classes available as well as Mass. They are, after all, Catholic. But insisting that non-Catholic students watch Mass while not allowing them to participate is pointless. Why? They aren't doing anything, after a few Masses they aren't learning anymore about a new culture, and if they don't believe in the faith they aren't gaining anything spiritually either.

Since Catholic schools are diverse, I'll bet there are many since the 80's that will teach about Judaism, eastern religions, Islam, etc. I'm talking about my experience with a school that had 35 different nations attending. You don't get much more diverse than that, and what a wasted opportunity!

I don't understand, Matt, what you mean by "forwards or backwards?" I'm unkind or something because I believe that the beliefs of all students should be taken into consideration in any school?
kmeyrick is offline  
#26 of 31 Old 03-21-2008, 09:44 PM
 
TCMoulton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 4,393
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 184 Post(s)
I attended a Lutheran school as a child and we had chapel services every Wednesday and only those children who had been confirmed Lutheran were permitted to take communion. As far as I see it, if you choose to send your children to a private religious school and you are not a member of that religion you should understand that there may be times when they cannot fully partcipate. If that is offensive/unacceptable then maybe the school is not a right fit for your family. I can't see how sitting in a chapel service that one cannot take communion in would harm a child - if anything it would teach them a little more about some of their classmates. Asking a catholic school to change their policies for those non-catholic students seems to be a bit much to me.
TCMoulton is offline  
#27 of 31 Old 03-21-2008, 09:56 PM
 
kmeyrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,813
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Not change totally. I just think that holding services after school is best. Many, if not most families choose Catholic schools when they are superior to public schools, and often there's no affordable private school that has a different religion or no religion. Most of the private schools in my area are Catholic, and there's one Jewish one and about three Baptist ones. About half of the Catholic schools are really more about more sheltered environments anyway.

I do agree that if parents don't like the religious practices of a given school they should look elsewhere, but often it's slim pickings. The choice is public school (with failing rates in my area) or Catholic school. And if any private school is willing to accept tuition money from any person, shouldn't they make compromises? They do in other respects, since, when push comes to shove, the families are paying customers. I hate to boil it down to that, since education in and of itself is superior to the "bottom line." But people pay for private school for certain results.

I do indeed approve overall of Catholic schools- as they tend to be far less expensive than the Protestant schools, Montessori and Waldorf schools, etc, they are an affordable alternative to public schools. Most of the students in my area that go to Catholic schools are hardly Scarsdale children. But in going they avoid the gangs, pregnancy and drop out rates of the public schools.
kmeyrick is offline  
#28 of 31 Old 03-21-2008, 10:43 PM
 
Emmeline II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
kmeyrick
Communion may only be five minutes, but the Mass itself is longer. Furthermore, the time length is irrelevant. School prayers in public schools were only five minutes long and that was declared unconstitutional. Even though it was such a "little thing" as conservatives feel, it put non-Christian and non-believers in a sticky position. Either they pray along with something they don't believe, or be outsiders in their own school. With a private school, the same rules don't apply, but the same value can- it is unfair to put others in awkward positions.
Quote:
kmeyrick
Not change totally. I just think that holding services after school is best. Many, if not most families choose Catholic schools when they are superior to public schools, and often there's no affordable private school that has a different religion or no religion. Most of the private schools in my area are Catholic, and there's one Jewish one and about three Baptist ones. About half of the Catholic schools are really more about more sheltered environments anyway.

I do agree that if parents don't like the religious practices of a given school they should look elsewhere, but often it's slim pickings. The choice is public school (with failing rates in my area) or Catholic school.
No matter how you put it you are trying to hold Catholic schools to secular standards, and you're irritated that they have a monopoly on affordable quality education in your area.

The Catholic Schools are not "putting" others in an award position. They (or the parents) choose to put themselves in that position.

As my father, a Lutheran, discovered when he was dated a Catholic woman, though Catholics and Lutherans/Methodists/etc. are all Christians they are not of the same faith (and he never dated another Catholic). I am not surprised that protestant based schools operate differently than Catholic based ones, but that does not make the latter bad or wrong.


Quote:
kmeyrick
And if any private school is willing to accept tuition money from any person, shouldn't they make compromises? They do in other respects, since, when push comes to shove, the families are paying customers. I hate to boil it down to that, since education in and of itself is superior to the "bottom line." But people pay for private school for certain results.
Considering the hierarchy of the Catholic church, when push comes to shove, the decision on whether to compromise faith for dollars probably does not lie with the individual school.

In any case, private and parochial schools get to choose their "customers" and do not have to compromise. It is their choice to go under (if that is a danger) rather than compromise. I suppose there are some things a particular school won't do for money.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
Emmeline II is offline  
#29 of 31 Old 03-23-2008, 07:51 PM
 
kmeyrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,813
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If I were insisting on secular standards, than Catholic schools wouldn't hold services at all, after school or otherwise. That wouldn't be right. A lot of Catholic schools in my area were wary of vouchers (which would have brought a lot of money) because they were aware that accepting government money likely meant that they would have to possibly become secular.

I think not having non-Catholics watch Mass, and holding it after school is fine. I'll bet plenty of schools do that anyway to keep instructional time.

Am I irritated that Catholic schools have a monopoly on quality education in my area? No. It's a good thing they are there. They are dedicated. I wish there were more choices like magnet and charter schools, since Catholic schools may be affordable but they aren't free or even cheap. Also, I think alternative education like Montessori and Waldorf should be more available to all.

It seems blue collar folks like me in my area always have to be grateful for what we got, whereas suburb people generally get to pick where they go and should therefore have no reason to complain.
kmeyrick is offline  
#30 of 31 Old 03-24-2008, 01:39 AM
 
MattBronsil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmeyrick View Post
I don't understand, Matt, what you mean by "forwards or backwards?" I'm unkind or something because I believe that the beliefs of all students should be taken into consideration in any school?
Not unkind. Just a step backwards is all I'm saying.

We're sending the wrong message to children if we say observing a religious or cultural event is harmful to them. I think most parents who send their child to a religious school understand this well enough that it's not a big concern.

Matt
MattBronsil is offline  
Reply


User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Online Users: 14,720

21 members and 14,699 guests
agentofchaos , beckyleeh , Bufomander , esg , girlspn , hillymum , IsaFrench , lisak1234 , MartinaTempleton , MarylandMommy , moominmamma , Motherof3already , NaturallyKait , RollerCoasterMama , rubelin , sciencemum , sren , vilongacarla , Xerxella
Most users ever online was 449,755, 06-25-2014 at 12:21 PM.