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Kids telling my DC they are going to H#LL

2K views 47 replies 39 participants last post by  boobybunny 
#1 ·
I wasn't sure where to post this-I hope this is OK. I read the guidelines in the Spirituality forum & this didn't seem to fit there.

Background: DH & I were both raised Catholic, but are now agnostic/atheist and do not go to church. We are respectful of other people's religions, and do not "preach" atheism to our kids. I often tell my kids that they may decide to be religious on their own, and that that is fine with DH & me. We talk about religion frequently & both sets of GP are still very religious.

Problem: Kids at school have been telling my kids (9 and 6) that they are going to Hell bc. they don't go to church. Telling them that they have to believe in God. I am not sure how the conversation comes up--especially with my kindergartener, but this has happened many times. (They go to public school, BTW). I don't like my kids being told this. When I was 17 and still very religious, a good friend told me that I was going to Hell bc. "Catholics don't believe in Jesus". Even thought I knew that wasn't true, it still upset me so much to think a friend of mine truly believed that.

Questions:
1. How do I tell my kids the best way to respond to this?
2. I keep thinking if we were Jewish or Muslim and someone said this, I'd be breaking down the administrations door in fury--but, as an atheist, what "rights" do I have? Conversely, if my kids ever told another student that there is no God (which they would never do--and I have never said this to them), we'd probably be in big trouble . . .
3. Assuming most people on this board are religious, would you want to know if your child was saying this to another child? And if you knew, would you be happy or unhappy about it? I don't mean that snarky-I am honestly, truly curious to know if very religious folks would feel some pride in knowing that your child was, in a way, professing his faith and/or beginning to evangelize?
 
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#2 ·
That's bizarre.

Members of all religions, including atheism, are equally protected. Your school board may not see it that way, so educate yourself on your rights before approaching them. I'm just assuming here (and we know where that gets us) but it sounds as if you live in a very religious/conservative area, and I'm thinking that the teachers, principal and school board may not take this very seriously.

I would personally find out which children are saying this, and contact their parents to (gently) advise them that this is happening and that your children are being negatively affected. I would hope that the response that I'd get would be something like "oh I had no idea, I'm sorry, I'll take action to stop this from continuing".

If it continued, I'd take it to the teacher first, then principal, then school board in that order. But I've always had success when I approach parents of other kids first.
 
#4 ·
Wow.
I would not be happy if my kids were told this and we ARE religious.

Equally, I wouldn't be happy if my kids told anyone that because we don't believe it anyway.

Definitely speak to the principal about it because maybe a school-wide note can go home stating ... I don't know. Something???

I'd want the parents in the class to tell their kids, "Hey, not everyone has the same beliefs and it's not nice to tell someone they're gonna die or go to hell." There ARE tactful ways of stating one's beliefs without saying something so crude and, really, untrue. In our beliefs, only God can read your heart and only God can make the call on whether you live or die on judgment day.

Man, you really have a situation. I hope it goes well and something can be done.
 
#5 ·
On the flipside, how much control over your childrens conversations do you want to have? I am not being mean, just pointing out that these things are going to happen. Its one thing to be bullied and picked on, but your kids are going to come across people with different ideas, and they are going to express their own as well. What are you looking for - to protect them from hearing these things? Its probably impossible, so I think that going to the school is the wrong avenue. Its better to discuss with your kids what you believe and what they believe and help them have the self confidence to be who they are.

I also dont see how your kids telling another that there is no God would get you in "big trouble?" - are religious discussions banned in public school playgrounds or what? Am I out of touch?
 
#6 ·
This happened to my 5 year old last year. He was the one headed to hell appparently because we do not go to church. I only found out about it after he developed an ear infection and was hallucinating in the drive-thru of McD's. He saw a cruel hand ready to snatch him to into hell. The woman taking our order was freaked. I was freaked. My son was freaked. A few hours later, we were able to talk about it and my son relayed that a boy in his class was telling him all this crap and I was PI$$ED!
I spoke to the teacher and principal and both said it was protected speech. They could not initiate a religious conversation nor could they tell a child to stop. I mentioned it to the kid's parent and she was all like, "we would love to have you at church". Yeah, right...me (my lesbian self), my partner and our 2 boys conceived with donor sperm. Yeah, see ya Sunday
 
#7 ·
Snarky question here, aren't the kids being raised to think that only bad people use the word "hell"?

If you don't get anywhere with the school board, I'd go off on their parents about the kids' language.

Oh, and if "you're going to hell" is protected speech, so is "God doesn't exist you UAV" and "what on earth is wrong with your parents?? What kind of people raise a kid to be evil? Don't you have any idea how your words and actions can affect people? Seriously, your whole family is messed up, don't talk to me about hell, you're the crazy ones." Or at least that's what I'd point out to the school board/principal/what have you.
 
#8 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by QueeTheBean View Post
2. I keep thinking if we were Jewish or Muslim and someone said this, I'd be breaking down the administrations door in fury--but, as an atheist, what "rights" do I have? Conversely, if my kids ever told another student that there is no God (which they would never do--and I have never said this to them), we'd probably be in big trouble . . .
Does the school have some kind of anti bullying or anti harrassment policy? I just think that's as far as you could get. Damning a little kid to hell is pretty scarry, I mean maybe you could say it is harassment. But that's the only way I could see the school not allowing that kind of talk. Because otherwise I think people have the right to say whatever weird thing they want about their religious beliefs.
 
#9 ·
I don't know what to tell you. I'm atheist and I heard crap like that from people at school (when I was older though). I never knew what to say...I just ignored them.

I would consider that harassment though, especially if it's the same kids doing it. I'd go to the principal and let him/her know what's going on. That's NOT ok what they are doing and to be honest, going to the parents first probably won't solve anything because that's probably where the kids are hearing that stuff!

If you don't want to get the school involved, you could teach your kids to let these little bible-beaters know that somewhere in there it says something about "judge not, lest ye be judged" or something like that.
I really don't know the bible, you'd have to look it up yourself.

These kids are bullying your kids for not being good little christians, but those kids aren't being good little christians either and they are the ones who are *trying*.
 
#10 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by bandgeek View Post
I would consider that harassment though, especially if it's the same kids doing it. I'd go to the principal and let him/her know what's going on. That's NOT ok what they are doing and to be honest, going to the parents first probably won't solve anything because that's probably where the kids are hearing that stuff!

This is true, but I still think that is the best route. At least give the parents a chance to remedy the situation before going over their heads.
 
#11 ·
we are religious and my children, esp. 4 yo dd, are pretty vocal about Jesus and God. my dd's best friend is a boy who is not being raised in the christian faith at all. he is with us 2x a week. while i don't have a problem with dd talking about God or teaching her friend a song from church, i do encourage her to refrain from prostelyzing. like, if she starts in on him saying, "S...do you love Jesus? you need to ask Him into your heart." I gently remind her that S's mommy teaches him about something different, and hey, lets do XYZ. It works well to distract her.

i would have absolutely no issue with a Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, what have you teaching my children about their religion, but if it turned to negativity I would step right on in.

In your case, if you can find out the parents, I would contact them. If they are not receptive or don't seem to care I would for sure go right to the school.

Good luck.
 
#12 ·
My dd recently came home from school and said that a couple of kids said "if you're bad, you go to the devil." I explained that myself and her dad don't believe that for one single second. I then explained that everyone believes differently, and that isn't part of mine and dh's beliefs. She seemed totally cool with it. We're agnostic, and we talk about other beliefs all the time, so I'm generally ready to explain away.
 
#13 ·
We are Christians but do not attend church. Yes Margaret there is such a thing, tee hee. If my kids were telling another child that THEY would be apologizing. While we do believe in salvation thru Jesus Christ, we also know that Jesus would have NEVER used shock and awe tactics to make believers out of people.
I never understand how true Christians can sleep at night feeding their kids heads full of that crap. The poor kids are probably scared to death to even ask questions to clear up their doubts about Jesus for fear they to will go to "hell". And like I said before...I am proud to be a Christian, but so saddened when I hear this nonsense.
 
#14 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by gsd1amommy View Post
This happened to my 5 year old last year. He was the one headed to hell appparently because we do not go to church. I only found out about it after he developed an ear infection and was hallucinating in the drive-thru of McD's. He saw a cruel hand ready to snatch him to into hell. The woman taking our order was freaked. I was freaked. My son was freaked. A few hours later, we were able to talk about it and my son relayed that a boy in his class was telling him all this crap and I was PI$$ED!
: Your poor son. That's so terrible.
 
#16 ·
I was raised as an atheist, and I was bullied by Christians from the age of 5 on through high school. What helped me the most was preparing some things to say in response for when ignoring them or rolling my eyes didn't work. The bullying and harassment DID make a difference in my life. I grew up HATING Christians and Christianity as a result. I also became a militant atheist for a while, and made fun of people who believed in something I considered an imaginary friend - or a mass delusion.
I really think that empowering your children is the way to go. By all means, try to get the school to intervene, if possible. But, also find ways to empower your children to get through the bullying with their integrity intact. I wish I had more support when I was going through this.
Good luck!
 
#17 ·
It happens. It's happened to us. I used it as a learning opportunity to teach my dd about how much power we should give people's opinions. I explained to her that the child was just repeating something they had been taught, but that certainly doesn't make it so. Clarifying her own beliefs also helped-did she believe in hell, or the devil, etc. etc., which she doesn't. Now she has an appropriate amount of skepticism toward stuff like that, and doesn't internalize it.

oh, and for now I've decided to give them tools instead of dealing w/parents, school, etc. We are in the minority here and I do think my protesting too much might do more damage than good. Teaching my kids how to stand up to it is effective enough.
 
#19 ·
It sucks when this happens. Fortunately, it didn't happen to me until I was in sixth grade, and by that time I understood my own beliefs fairly well, and was able to respond, "How can I go to hell? I don't BELIEVE in hell."

This is the tricky thing about raising children literally without belief. It's one thing to raise them in your own beliefs, as "none of the above" as they may be... but when you leave them truly open, someone will always try to fill that up.

My mom carefully avoided using the word "atheist" to describe herself or our family for me. One day, I overheard her talking about going to an Atheists United meeting. "You mean, we're atheists?" I asked. She started trying to carefully say something like well, you can be whatever you want to be... but I went on, "Oh, good! I'm so tired of being NOTHING!" It's true. Children seek group identity. As long as they're informed about that identity, and are always free to change it, I don't see it as being *wrong* to meet that craving, and it certainly makes situations like this one simpler.

The book "Parenting Beyond Belief" is really awesome at going through many issues faced by parents raising kids without religion, including this one. I highly recommend it!
 
#20 ·
Do you believe in hell? If not, tell your child that you don't believe such a place exists.
If this is really bothering your child I would go to the school, and then to the parents if the school won't do anything.
 
#21 ·
So sorry your kid is being faced with this. The thing is with most christian religons the statement that "You will go to Hell if you don't attend church." is incorrect. Most christians believe that it is faith not church attendance that gets you in to heaven instead of hell. You might want to teach your child some of the basics of different religons and what they believe. It is easier to stand up to statements like that if you know why they believe what they do and give your child a chance to make up their own mind about what they choose to believe. Also let your child know that they can always change their mind. If they become interested in religon then let them sample different religons and churches, synogogues, temples etc... It will help give them a broader perspective and make the rude statements less threatening.

If you want to confront some one about it I would start with the parents as the school is not likely to want to get involved in a religous debate/freedom of speech issues. You are more likely to get some action by bringing it up with the parents than the teachers.

Good luck what ever you choose to do.
 
#22 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by JessasMilkMama View Post
On the flipside, how much control over your childrens conversations do you want to have? I am not being mean, just pointing out that these things are going to happen. Its one thing to be bullied and picked on, but your kids are going to come across people with different ideas, and they are going to express their own as well. What are you looking for - to protect them from hearing these things? Its probably impossible, so I think that going to the school is the wrong avenue. Its better to discuss with your kids what you believe and what they believe and help them have the self confidence to be who they are.

I also dont see how your kids telling another that there is no God would get you in "big trouble?" - are religious discussions banned in public school playgrounds or what? Am I out of touch?

I have to agree with you. I certainly don't expect my children to be sheltered from from others' beliefs. I also don't expect them to grow up and have my personal beliefs as their own. I like them to be exposed to ALL religions and beliefs. And I certainly hope religious discussions aren't banned on school playgrounds! I would be upset if my children weren't allowed to discuss their religious beliefs at their school if they wanted to.
 
#23 ·
We experienced this a lot as kids, due to growing up in the bible belt as the children of ex-hippie agnostics.

It never bothered me because I talked to my parents and they put it in context for me. They talked about the multitudes of religons, and how believing in one random one (like christianity) simply meant that you weren't believing in other ones that also condemned you for being unfaithful. So you couldn't logically conclude that there was any reason to believe in one over the other.

At some point (older than age five, I imagine) I remember responding "Why in the world would I want to believe in a god who tortures innocent people for eternity simply for not knowing she exists? I expect my god to be a bigger person than me - not some vicious tyrant. You can keep your wacky god."
 
#24 ·
I didn't read the other posts; but personally, I'd teach them how to respond tactfully.

"You're going to hell"

"You're entitled to your religious views and opinions; but please keep it to yourself."

Explain that different people believe different things and that's fine. Explain that they may not like the choices you've made as a family; but they do have to be polite. If it persists, perhaps it's time to call in the other parents for a meeting with the teacher so they can help teach their children to be tactful and polite.
 
#25 ·
I'm more than a bit bothered by the "have the school stop it" responses. Assuming that this is coming from kids, not teachers, do we really want/expect teachers to monitor all playground conversations and stop those the teacher thinks are wrong? Even children have a first amendment right to express an opinion. To believe anything less is to say we respect children less than adults and/or they have fewer rights. I, for one, am really not willing to say that.

Nor do I think that protecting children from hearing anything different from their beliefs is good for kids -- it would really limit their growth to never be challenged with new thoughts.

That said, there is a line where free speach becomes bullying, and if this has crossed that line, then you should approach the teacher or school administration -- but on the grounds your children are being bullied, not that it is a religious idea.

If its just an occassional opinion, then I think your best strategy is to teach your child how to respond, politely but firmly. And how to ask you questions and talk through issues so they can come up with a coping strategy.

And to answer your question, I would be appalled if my child were saying this to someone else. We are very active in our church and very committed Christians, though of a very liberal bent. I'd be upset because 1. I don't believe it to be true and 2. Because I never want my children to hurt another child with words or deeds. If I overheard comments like that from my child, we would definitely talk about thinking about the effect that words would have on others and respecting differences. But I'm not sure if I would appreciate it if another parent "tattled" to me about it.
 
#26 ·
I haven't read all the responses but I had to say that when I was a child there was this group of girls in my class who were religious and continually told me for YEARS that I was going to go to hell for not being religious.

I have an intense dislike and distrust of overtly religious people and organized religion now. (yes I know that that's not really rational) I can only equate this to those girls and their constant harassment. My parents have always been neutral so it did not come from them.
 
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