green, yellow, red card system. - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 59 Old 08-28-2008, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
MichaelsSahm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,502
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Anyone's kindergartner ever come home with a red card?

My son (6 in October) just started Kinder almost 2 weeks ago. And came home with a red card and a note from the teacher stating why he had gotten a red card.
He talked when the teacher was trying to teach.
He didn't finish his work.
He didn't raise his hand to talk.
And something else.

Is this pretty normal behaviour for an almost 6 yr old who had never been in school (outside the home) he has never been in daycare, never been away from me really. I hope this is normal.
MichaelsSahm is offline  
#2 of 59 Old 08-28-2008, 02:21 PM
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Outside the hive mind
Posts: 7,307
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmnlovingit View Post

Is this pretty normal behaviour for an almost 6 yr old who had never been in school (outside the home) he has never been in daycare, never been away from me really. I hope this is normal.
Absolutely normal IMO. I totally object to this kind of behavioral modification technique being used on our children.

Rainbow.giftstillheart.gifsmile.gif

 

"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

Mirzam is online now  
#3 of 59 Old 08-28-2008, 02:29 PM
 
lightheart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: zone 6b
Posts: 2,394
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yep your little guys is typical, he misbehaved a little (or alot) depending on what exactly the "something else" was ...
lightheart is offline  
#4 of 59 Old 08-28-2008, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
MichaelsSahm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,502
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightheart View Post
yep your little guys is typical, he misbehaved a little (or alot) depending on what exactly the "something else" was ...
ROFL, i forgot what the something else was!
I think it that was it. LOL
MichaelsSahm is offline  
#5 of 59 Old 08-28-2008, 03:56 PM
 
Marcee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the wilds of Washington
Posts: 1,498
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
very normal. I hate the public school disapline system. It has been especially rough for my 3rd grader. He tries so hard to be "good" but some of his teachers are just harsh old bitties that forget that kids need to move occasionally.
Marcee is offline  
#6 of 59 Old 08-28-2008, 06:07 PM
 
Dolphin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 555
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yep, my very sensitive, sweet ds came home with a "yellow" today, day 3 of kindy, for nudging a boy back after the boy (a wild one, I already noticed him) shoved my ds. I'm very upset about it actually. This was one of the main reasons I was hesitant to do public schools, but this one is brand new and right down the street from us, so I wanted to give it a try. It's not starting out so well though...
Dolphin is offline  
#7 of 59 Old 08-28-2008, 07:25 PM
 
CarrieMF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Alberta/Saskatchewan
Posts: 8,930
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
In our school they'd only get a red card for those things if the teacher had to repeatedly remind the child of the classroom rules, not just for doing it once or having a multitude of things. There are different things that are done before the child gets a red. Most kids will get a yellow 1-2 times a year & never move onto red. There are only a handful of kids who move onto a red one.

Teachers do tend to be a bit harder at the beginning of the year & relax them a bit as the year goes on.

They use the card system for K only.
CarrieMF is offline  
#8 of 59 Old 08-28-2008, 10:43 PM
 
phathui5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17,479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That stuff all sounds totally normal to me.

Midwife (CPM, LDM) and homeschooling mama to:
13yo ds   10yo dd  8yo ds and 6yo ds and 1yo ds  
phathui5 is offline  
#9 of 59 Old 08-29-2008, 12:33 AM
 
bnhmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 571
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Our son's teacher sends home a paper every day for the parents to sign. There's a spot for each day and in the spot she draws a face. Blue smiley face = Super, Green straight face=Good, Yellow sad face=needs improvement, Red *crying* face=something bad I don't remember. (Seriously, is she really drawing red, crying faces?? ) I don't think it's her system alone b/c that doesn't seem like her style.
I'm not crazy about that type of beh. mod system, either, although I suppose I should not complain b/c so far ds has gotten all blue smileys. The thing is, he's very proud of himself, so I let him know I'm proud of him too.

I really think the reason they use this system, where we have to sign every single day is to keep parents accountable. Much more so than the kids. Sad.
bnhmama is offline  
#10 of 59 Old 08-29-2008, 12:42 AM
 
applejuice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: hunting the wild aebelskiever
Posts: 18,653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Yes, this kind of thing was big when I did my student teaching in public school. When I got my own classroom in a private school, I found this system to be abhorrent and I did not use it. I kept a private book for myself and wrote notes home to parents if I needed to.

The system was too much paper work. If I had a problem, I talked to the parent immediately and documented it.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
applejuice is offline  
#11 of 59 Old 08-29-2008, 08:32 AM
 
mommy68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by uccomama View Post
Absolutely normal IMO. I totally object to this kind of behavioral modification technique being used on our children.
I agree.

My DD was in a kindergarten outside the home last year. Her teacher used a car system. They had their car moved on the road through the stop lights (red, yellow, green) if they got in trouble for anything. My DD was a talker so her car was moved almost daily for talking in class. And it was mostly the girls who got in trouble each day, not the boys.

I didn't agree with this system but was a way to enforce class rules and her teacher had 22 students to keep in line for 7 hours a day so who was I to argue her way of doing it.

Single (divorced), self-employed working, college student MOM to:

 

17 yr old

11 yr old 

 4 yr old

mommy68 is offline  
#12 of 59 Old 08-29-2008, 10:21 AM
 
supervee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: NC
Posts: 2,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I disagree with this kind of behavior mod in theory.

However, we've pulled our kid from a school where they didn't do this and put him into a school that does this, and I'm happy. He is distracted by kids who talk, jump up and down, and push him while he's trying to work. So if those kids are being given yellow cards, and it keeps them from distracting my kiddo from learning, that's great. I would absolutely not be fine with suspending or paddling, but the card system is a relatively benign type of discipline, if you're going to have any discipline. Perhaps there are teachers that can manage classroom behavior without a system of any kind, I do believe it could happen, but in practice I've seen it fail terribly.

I've asked about their card system (they have green, yellow, orange, and red), and even the yellow seems to be given out rarely, for things like hitting in the classroom. (Why in the world are kids hitting in the classroom?!) And it's the first week, when she's probably being more strict than normal.

mama to DS 9 and DD 5 and
supervee is offline  
#13 of 59 Old 08-29-2008, 01:37 PM
 
jill393's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern California
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It worked well for my dd in kindergarten (now going in to 2nd), but I don't know how effective it will be for my son (starting K). She was distraught when she got a yellow card, but it did help her to understand the rules of the class. And she was very proud to bring home green week after week. It's a great way for the kids to feel a sense of accomplishment for just doing the right thing.

There were kids who brought home red after red, and I overheard one mom saying to her son "if you can stay off of red tomorrow I will take you to Legoland." Yep, not the most effective form of parenting in my book, but there you go.

When my son starts bringing home red (and I am sure he will) it will take a few conversations with him and he will get it. He doesn't break the rules intentionally, he just doesn't always understand them at first. We are working on following the rules. He can break all the rules he wants when he gets to college.
jill393 is offline  
#14 of 59 Old 08-29-2008, 10:19 PM
 
marieangela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm not sure what to think of this yet. I just learned of a similar system at my ds's school. My ds told me yesterday that he was on yellow and sure enough when I went to open house last night I saw what he meant. There are three "lights" on the board looking like a stop light. There were little school buses with a student's name on every one. Pretty much the whole class of buses was near the green light, but my son and another boy and three girsl were on yellow. Apparently they do this daily, it takes several offences to get to yellow and several more to get to red. If you get to red you have a note sent home to your parents, but otherwise I don't think there is any notification. Being on yellow didn't seem to phase my son at all...

Marie-Mom to two boys and a girl.
marieangela is offline  
#15 of 59 Old 08-30-2008, 12:25 AM
 
captivatedlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: in a place of interest
Posts: 1,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I hate it. That being said, when I was teaching in the public schools the K teachers had one teacher and 22 kids. There isn't enough time to give each child individualized academic attention, much less individualized behavior interventions.

I have no idea. I sometimes hate some of the things I do when I teach, but I am constantly reading trying to better my understanding of children and behavior.

Imagine what your run of the mill teachers who just don't care anymore are doing.

~ Kim

mama to E (01-2007) and wife to C

captivatedlife is offline  
#16 of 59 Old 08-30-2008, 02:06 AM
 
LemonPie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,058
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My son's kindy teacher has a chart with their names on it. They get a star each time she sees them doing something positive. She also has a yellow bus for each child with their name on it and 2 columns with a happy face and a sad face. Their bus gets moved to the sad face side if they do something big like hit another kid or are openly disrespectful--she said at Back to School night last night that she tries not to use that unless she has to. She does have a card system like the ones described above for later in the year, but said that last year she never even had to pull them out.

So overall it is a "positive/negative reinforcement" system, but she definitely weighs heavy on the positive, so it doesn't bother me too much.

Wife to a great DH, SAHM to 3 great kids
LemonPie is offline  
#17 of 59 Old 08-30-2008, 06:53 AM
 
velochic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Dreaming of the Bavarian Alps
Posts: 8,413
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We have a similar system in dd's private school. I think it is a good system and works well. Kids need to learn that they play a role in creating a good learning environment and that causing distractions for the class is disrespectful to everyone. Yes, totally normal behavior for that age, but so, too, is sitting quietly during instruction and letting it all out on the playground.
velochic is offline  
#18 of 59 Old 08-30-2008, 01:15 PM
 
octobermom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Yuma AZ
Posts: 5,558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
D school does green yellow orange and red

Green - no issues
Yellow given a warning no other conquence
orange repeated or more 'serious" offense time out or loss of recess
red - repeated offenses (and generally more than talking when they shouldn't) parents called three reds suspension 5 and they are dismissed from the program..

Overall I'm okay with the system assuming the teacher understands the development of the average 5-7 year old.

Wife to DH since August 01 mom to a bubbly girl October 2002 and our newest gal March 2010
octobermom is offline  
#19 of 59 Old 08-30-2008, 09:37 PM
 
babygirl24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
We have a similar system in dd's private school. I think it is a good system and works well. Kids need to learn that they play a role in creating a good learning environment and that causing distractions for the class is disrespectful to everyone. Yes, totally normal behavior for that age, but so, too, is sitting quietly during instruction and letting it all out on the playground.
I agree. My dd is the one who complains if someone is being distracting and she can't learn. And that started in pre-school.
babygirl24 is offline  
#20 of 59 Old 08-30-2008, 10:06 PM
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Outside the hive mind
Posts: 7,307
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
We have a similar system in dd's private school. I think it is a good system and works well. Kids need to learn that they play a role in creating a good learning environment and that causing distractions for the class is disrespectful to everyone. Yes, totally normal behavior for that age, but so, too, is sitting quietly during instruction and letting it all out on the playground.
Yes, children in school need to understand what a respectful learning enviroment is and how to achieve it. But sitting still quietly can be achieved without operant conditioning which is what the green/yellow/red card system is. My children's private schools hae achieve just that without any kinds of behvaior modification techniques. Ds's school utilitzes Beyond Consequences, Logic and Control.

Rainbow.giftstillheart.gifsmile.gif

 

"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

Mirzam is online now  
#21 of 59 Old 08-30-2008, 11:38 PM
 
supervee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: NC
Posts: 2,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't find a description of the program on that site. Can you summarize?

It is my perception that private schools have more leeway into kicking kids out (or not admitting them) that don't meet basic behavior requirements, so it might be easier to use an alternate program if this is the case.

mama to DS 9 and DD 5 and
supervee is offline  
#22 of 59 Old 08-30-2008, 11:42 PM
 
Autumn Breeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: with the Geek in the Pink
Posts: 15,077
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
They do it here too, it's supposed to help them learn the differences between work and play time. And for some children it works.

My son is now in 1st grade, and it seldom 'works' for him. He was "on red" on Thursday.

It becomes a source of stress, and tension, and I detest it.

~Autumn~   Mama to whistling.gif (2001) and hearts.gif(2005) partners.gif madly in love since '99 
Autumn Breeze is offline  
#23 of 59 Old 08-31-2008, 03:25 AM
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Outside the hive mind
Posts: 7,307
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by supervee View Post
I don't find a description of the program on that site. Can you summarize?
I don't know much about it yet, but it is in the book and the school will be offering the parents an opportunity to attend a workshop in the not too distant future. The school is new and they have been searching for three years (the entire life of the school) for a discipline model that resonates with their values -- the school is based on the Shambhala Buddhist teachings, although it isn't a Buddhist school. The foundation of their model is "basic goodness" and from that stems their teaching practice and they required a discipline model that would allow the children to feel this state of balance within themselves. The Beyond Consequences model gives the teacher a tools to help a child to return to the balanced state of "basic goodness". This of course is deeply at odds with the behaviorists and their theory of a child being a "blank slate" that can be molded to act in a certain way, which is the basis for the majority of schools in the US -- ie social conditioning rather than true learning. I realize this is a huge statement, but to understand this fully I recommend reading a little book entitled The Leipzig Connection by Paolo Lionni, it documents how this all came about and why we have these kinds of reward/punishment programs in our schools.

Quote:
It is my perception that private schools have more leeway into kicking kids out (or not admitting them) that don't meet basic behavior requirements, so it might be easier to use an alternate program if this is the case.
Yes, of course private schools can choose who they have as students, and obviously they can refuse children who they feel ill-equipped to handle. But that doesn't excuse the use of these techniques on children, whether they be easy or much more challenging, in public schools. I can understand that it makes a teacher's life easier, but that doesn't make it appropriate or ethical.

Rainbow.giftstillheart.gifsmile.gif

 

"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

Mirzam is online now  
#24 of 59 Old 08-31-2008, 02:18 PM
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Outside the hive mind
Posts: 7,307
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
As an adjunct to my above post. I can tell you how teachers address so-called negative behavior according to the handout we parents received at the back to school night.



Quote:
1. Take a deep breath ourselves and stay in a calm place when we address the child. If we are unsettled it is highly challenging to be effective. Our own balanced presence will naturally bring more clarity to the situation at hand.

2. See that the child is "dis-regulated" and use our "presence" and our own self-regulation to help the child come back to a place of safety.

3. When the teacher and the child are regulated we will then address appropriate behaviors and help the child engage with his internal motivation to stay regulated and to relate appropriately to the situation.

We strive to limit the use of consequences, logic or control to stop "negative" behavior. If we do we are only dealing with the symptom and not the cause and the child will always be dependent on an external regulator to keep him in check
According to the handout, the model the school is using is aimed at creating an understanding of how "unconditional love" through relationship will allow the children to access and live in a place of "basic goodness" and to choose behaviors that reflect that internal state.

Rainbow.giftstillheart.gifsmile.gif

 

"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

Mirzam is online now  
#25 of 59 Old 08-31-2008, 02:26 PM
 
supervee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: NC
Posts: 2,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
To call giving a child a small correction for acting in a way to disrupt learning in a group situation unethical is a bit overreaching.

This school sounds like a fine alternative and opportunity for the families interested in that kind of experience.

I agree there are many options for people who don't like mainstream processes, but as I noted, while we agree with some of these things in theory, they did not work out in reality b/c the commitment of families to the core values can be variable.

For a small example, in order to get kids that do not attack each other a la Terminator on the playground, you need commitment from all families not to let their children watch the Terminator movies. If this often doesn't work on a small, self-selected scale, you can imagine what might happen if this was applied to public schools, drawing from a wide range of values and neglect. In many ways, we can't go back to the historical ways of teaching b/c of societal changes.

mama to DS 9 and DD 5 and
supervee is offline  
#26 of 59 Old 08-31-2008, 03:15 PM
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Outside the hive mind
Posts: 7,307
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by supervee View Post
To call giving a child a small correction for acting in a way to disrupt learning in a group situation unethical is a bit overreaching.
You don't know what effect that "small correction" is having on a child's psyche. You cannot understand how they think, you can only see the behavioral results of your "correction". For all you know, it can have devastating effect on their self esteem. Is it not better to assist them to self regulate, so that they can bring themselves to a place of balance?

Quote:
This school sounds like a fine alternative and opportunity for the families interested in that kind of experience.

I agree there are many options for people who don't like mainstream processes, but as I noted, while we agree with some of these things in theory, they did not work out in reality b/c the commitment of families to the core values can be variable.

For a small example, in order to get kids that do not attack each other a la Terminator on the playground, you need commitment from all families not to let their children watch the Terminator movies. If this often doesn't work on a small, self-selected scale, you can imagine what might happen if this was applied to public schools, drawing from a wide range of values and neglect. In many ways, we can't go back to the historical ways of teaching b/c of societal changes.
Yes, a system that is not based on operant conditioning does require parental support, to a degree. But understanding why our schools got there in the first place is very, very important in understanding why we shouldn't go there. But the core of this comes down to how we as a society view our children and the role of school. Is it for social conditioning to churn out materialistic conformers or to educate through illumination? US schools have, with a few exceptions, wholeheartedly endorsed the former.

Operant conditioning was the organ that has changed society, and this whole experiment began in our schools. So we can turn this around; starting with the way we educate our children across the board. And I think by objecting to these practices in schools is a good start.

You don't need current mainstream behavioral systems to instill appropriate behavior in children if you are coming from a place of unconditional love and acceptance.

I am also at a loss as to why you think that the simple, respectful techniques utilized at my son's school is only good for a certain segment of the population.

Rainbow.giftstillheart.gifsmile.gif

 

"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

Mirzam is online now  
#27 of 59 Old 08-31-2008, 03:37 PM
 
Dolphin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 555
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Uccomama, I am really agreeing with your thoughts completely. What would you suggest to those of us whose kids go to standard public school that use the typical behavior mod system? What can I do to initiate change? It just seems to daunting and almost impossible. But it's either that or pull my child out and start the uphill battle of finding something else...
Dolphin is offline  
#28 of 59 Old 08-31-2008, 04:05 PM
 
CarrieMF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Alberta/Saskatchewan
Posts: 8,930
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
You don't know what effect that "small correction" is having on a child's psyche. You cannot understand how they think, you can only see the behavioral results of your "correction". For all you know, it can have devastating effect on their self esteem. Is it not better to assist them to self regulate, so that they can bring themselves to a place of balance?
The effect on the child could be positive too, it doesn't HAVE to be negative.

At the school my kids go to they use the green-yellow-red card system, they ALSO teach the kids how to self regulate their behaviour. The card system is if the child continuously misbehaves in a manner that the teacher HAS tried helping the child correct a few times first. The cards are changed without word to the class as a group, the child is told in private. With better behaviour the child's card can move back to yellow or green during the day too. Each day the kids start off on green.

If a child's behaviour is continuously, day after day or several days in a week distrupting they go on a positive behaviour plan. Each block of class & recess time is broken up & they get checkmarks or x's(with an explanation of why). It is a bigger reminder to these kids to follow the 4 keys of positive behaviour in the school. The kids that were on it last year thrived on this system. Out of 250 kids in the school there were 5 on it, 4 in Grade 1 & 1 in Grade 2.
CarrieMF is offline  
#29 of 59 Old 08-31-2008, 05:18 PM
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Outside the hive mind
Posts: 7,307
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphin View Post
Uccomama, I am really agreeing with your thoughts completely. What would you suggest to those of us whose kids go to standard public school that use the typical behavior mod system? What can I do to initiate change? It just seems to daunting and almost impossible. But it's either that or pull my child out and start the uphill battle of finding something else...
Good question! I don't have much of an answer for you. It begins with the training of teachers and is totally ingrained into the system that no one questions it. All I can say is, if my children were subject to these methods, I would pull them. I realize I am in the very fortunate position of having the ability to have them in schools that don't teach this way. My dd goes to a free/democratic school, so discipline there is handled via student council meetings and the children have just as much say as the teacher. But maybe becoming actively involved in the PTA and trying to affect change that way is the way to start. I would also try and subvert the system by making very light of these things with my children. If they came home with a yellow or red card, I would probably have a laugh about it with them and then see if I can help them get to the core of the imbalance and work on it from there. I realize this is wishy washy.

CarrieMF, I am not saying these techniques don't [appear] to work. They do affect outward behavior which is what the school wants, social engineering. But what I am saying is they are not appropriate for use on human beings -- they are based on animal behavioral experiments. If a child is a repeat "offender" then the teacher hasn't gotten to the core of the issue, likely because they are not able to reach a state of balance within themselves. Now the problem is with our society, few are able to reach this place.

Rainbow.giftstillheart.gifsmile.gif

 

"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

Mirzam is online now  
#30 of 59 Old 08-31-2008, 05:20 PM
 
supervee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: NC
Posts: 2,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by uccomama View Post
I am also at a loss as to why you think that the simple, respectful techniques utilized at my son's school is only good for a certain segment of the population.
It will only work for that segment of the population that doesn't let their children watch Terminator videos, for one.

I do know what the effect was on DS's psyche from children who continually, and physically, interrupted his learning. Is this less important than the psyches of the kids who are interrupting?

FWIW, for the most part, we use the loving-guidance method as you are describing it at home. I'm with you on changing society for positive, AP goodness, and we work on that every day. A group situation away from home adds other dynamics, though, and I have had it up to here => with other kids hurting my kiddo.

Tuesday morning when DS goes into the classroom, when a kid pushes him down in line, I'm happy that the child will be told that is not okay, with a visual reminder of his/her little indicator turning yellow. My son, on Tuesday morning, in that moment, for that day in his short little life, doesn't have time for loving guidance from the teacher to kick in. He needs to stop being pushed, and he needs to know the adults think it's not the right thing for him to be pushed.

mama to DS 9 and DD 5 and
supervee is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off