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May yank my twins out of public school - thoughts? *BIG UPDATE #137*

16K views 160 replies 70 participants last post by  mamadebug 
#1 ·
HUGE 2/18 update post #149

I'm thinking of pulling my twins out of public school and homeschooling them instead. Did anyone do this? Specifically with twins and/or children that were young (kindergarten age)?

My twin boys have been in public school for one month. Due to two separate illnesses and their weakened immune systems, they've missed two weeks approximately (broken up, not straight).

Due to this, the teachers are getting pretty nasty with DH and I. The principal is calling our cell phones to leave nasty voicemails about how we need to "work on getting them back into school" (uh, where's the magic potion to make them well??). One of their teachers tells me about the negative things they do every morning and every afternoon. She says no positive things and my boys end up hearing the negatives and then telling me they are sorry for making me and the teacher mad.


Today, Kyler got a "Good day coupon" for having a good day. Yet his teacher still stopped me and proceeded to say that one of the boys didn't line up after recess was over. It wasn't today, it was sometime this week. Why wasn't this mentioned during one of the other many times she spouted off the negatives? And they don't know which one? Sheesh. Kyler accidentally got in line with the 2nd graders one day, another day Cameron accidentally went into the girls bathroom instead of the boys.

I mean, it's little stuff that is happening because (I THINK!) they have missed so much and are still getting used to procedures. But the school is beginning to get very rude about this, not understand their health issues, etc.

The teachers wanted to setup a meeting on the 15th. I politely asked if it could be the 17th, as that is the only day that week my DH can get vacation (yes, he'd have to use up a vacation day). Today I am told that no, only the 15th will work and actually, DH doesn't need to be there (the teacher told me this).
: Yes, I could go in myself but I'd like DH to attend so we can both hear what they have to say and both talk to them about the issues.

So we're talking about pulling them out of school and instead homeschooling. I didn't look into this before. I guess I thought I was taking the easy way out by putting them in public school but I'm realizing that isn't the easy way for us.. I am intimidated by the thought of homeschooling but then I want them to learn as well.

I think the issues at their school are more about social than academics. So then I wonder if homeschooling is right for us? I mean, they wouldn't have near the social interaction that they'd have in public school (I'd of course get them out and about, etc.).

Sorry for the rambling.. I'm just stressed, upset and ticked off. Thoughts?
 
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#77 ·
Today was the only day in which I spoke to the principal and didn't ask questions because I was irritated. Okay, I failed by not asking what I was wanting to ask right then.. I get that.

I have asked similar questions numerous times before. I am told over and over it's behavior specialists. Well, what kind? Behavior specialists. Why? Kyler needs to be talked about. Why? Kyler is having issues. What issues? He talked in line once, he didn't line up after recess once, etc. Who are the specialists? They work for the SD.

If I ask too many questions, which I KNOW I have the right to do, they get nasty with me and I was told one time to "just wait for the meeting!"

I am doing everything and then some or so I feel. I am still very willing to work with them, of course. This isn't about them, myself or whatever, it's about my children! I will not lose sight of that and don't feel that I have.

The principal simply asked today if DH could get the 28th off. I don't know how much vacation he has and being he was sick this morning, I didn't want to wake him as he was desperately in need of sleep. So she asked and I said I'd ask him today and get back to her asap. She seemed fine with that response.

ETA: I forgot to mention I'm planning on going into the school early today (before pickup) to find out if the boys have been evaluated, how the two specialists know the boys, etc.
 
#78 ·
Not to add to the negative vibe here, but I too get a really bad feeling about this. I agree w/pp that you need to find out exact details of whom is attending this meeting. I would call the principal and write up a list. Ask her to start listing people, write down the first name and then say "and what role does she/he have in this?", "has she/he evaluated or observed Kyler?" etc. Then move on to the next person. It just sounds like they are setting you up. And I know you said you've dealt with CPS before but I've heard stories of overzealous CPS workers taking kids away from their parents for stuff like this while they investigate.

Also, I would suggest calling your doctor TODAY. Explain that the school is giving you a lot of grief about the kids and ask if he/she would write a detailed letter (for each kid) about the immune system issues and the various illnesses that they've had since school started, just in case.

Again, good luck. This seriously sounds bad.

Beth
 
#79 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by UberMama View Post
ETA: I forgot to mention I'm planning on going into the school early today (before pickup) to find out if the boys have been evaluated, how the two specialists know the boys, etc.
Great. I would definitely try to get Kyler moved to Mrs. Nice class now. I would not want to wait for the meeting if they are going to be moving it back.

I don't get a CPS vibe off hand, though since you seem to live in Oregon where I have heard of the most rediculous overzealous action from CPS workers, it never hurts to be warry.
 
#80 ·
Ah, mama.....


I need to go back and read this thread (I have read bits and pieces) - but I would:

-ask for a transfer to a different teacher.

-if that is not do-able, I would pull him from school. K wil be a really long, sad, stressfull year if he stays with ms. mean. I sincerely doubt she will change. Who needs that?

-I am not even sure I would go to the meeting. What is the point? It seems way too early in the game for "behaviourists" and I am not a fan of being ambushed (I have known 3, yup 3, families who were ambushed...they went in for a simple meeting only to have many specialists there . The meeting were quite traumatic for the parents - and I do not think accomplished much
)

I often communicate in email. I always make it long like I am a reasonable, proactive, etc

"Ms. so an so,

Thank you for arranging the meeting. DH has rearranged his scheduel, and we will be there on the ____th.

In order for us to come to the meeting fully informed and prepared, I would like to know what the purpose of the meeting is, and who will be there ?(their names please). Have these people met my son or evaluated him?

Thanks in advance."

Once they send you this info, I would make a copy and bring it to the meeting (should you go).

Good luck!

Kathy
 
#81 ·
DH and I are and actually have been getting a bad vibe from this for just over a week now. The feeling is increasing each and everyday. For my MIL to suggest we HS the boys, you know it's bad (she's very soggy and not crunchy in the least!).

I called the doctor and the nurse is having the dr (not just the nurse) type up a letter with details of their prematurity, immune system, how sick they were (and how Kyler was almost admitted into the hosp that night), etc. I am then making copies of it, the receipts from the copays for urgent care from that night, the prescription forms (with numbers blacked out) and anything else and I'll show them to the principal. I know how she'll respond, "You didn't have to do this, we believe you" but from how they act, they don't believe me. :/
 
#82 ·
I think this is sounding worse and worse too. And its not because of anything you or your children are doing. Unfortunately, the burden to deal with this is going to fall on you anyway. At this point, I would call the district office. First, ask if there is any sort of parent advocate or ombudsman available to help you. If so, speak with them and get their help. If not, then ask about attendence policy. Ask what the policy is about having your child evaluated without your consent. Ask about policy in setting up the sort of meeting you are anticipating. Get all of the info you can from the district. If possible, do this without giving a lot of information about the situation. Avoid giving school, name, teacher any of that. You are simply researching district policies. Write everything down. Ask if this is on the website anywhere (so you can get it in writing in their exact language -- they won't be able to argue with things printed from thew website). This will give you some amunition should you need it. The better armed you go into this meeting the better off you are going to be.
 
#83 ·
Done! I called the school district and had to leave a message (you would think anyone could tell me what I need to know?!). So hopefully they will call me back tomorrow and answer my questions in detail.


I scoured the web site and found nothing about attendance policies and such (well, beyond the usual wording, but nothing specific at all!). But I will ask if there's anything in writing that I can obtain about this. Something factual that comes from them.

Thanks!!
 
#85 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatherHeather View Post
Someone stated earlier that school was not mandatory in your state until age 8. If that is the case, then there can be no compulsory or mandatory number of days your children have to attend school before age 8.
That's good to know. From what I read last night, Oregon is age seven. But either way, they aren't even six yet, of course.


Thanks!
 
#86 ·
The school is supposed to give you at least the official titles of the personnel that have or will be evaluating your DS. In writing. They're not supposed to have evaluated your child without your knowledge. Yes, they can do a screening and figure out what needs to be assessed, but they are not supposed to go through with the full evaluation unless you know about it.

Something isn't adding up in this equation. This upcoming meeting sounds very shady. Bring a tape recorder, and if you can, another friend or neighbor that can be an extra set of ears for you.

I would also put in a written request for the names and titles/specialties of everyone that is slated to attend the meeting IN WRITING. Don't hesitate on this one and get it in to the principal ASAP (actually, send it via certified mail to make sure that the principal gets it), and give a date in which you are expecting a reply. This will decrease the chances of an ambush and you'll get a clearer picture on who will be there, which is very very important.

Don't let them push you around, mama. They're giving you the run around and not being forthright, and it all smells fishy to me. Call them on it!!

 
#87 ·
OK, so this all got me really curious and I went exploring. Assuming you are in the Portland school district, I found the attendence policy in a downloadable handbook on discipline. Unfortunately, now I can't remember what page I was on when I found it. But the policy says that a student will be withdrawn for 10 CONSECUTIVE days of absence, but nothing other than that, other than the usual notification policy. I didn't see much else in there that would get you to this sort of meeting, honestly.

Unfortunately, I didn't see any sort of parent advocate office either. I was really hoping they would have someone that was automatically on your side and within the system.

I agree with kidspiration that you should make a written request for the names and titles of each person they expect to attend the meeting. Make the deadline about a week before the meeting. If you don't get it, send a copy of your original letter to othe district superintendent (or vice super if they have those) and ask for their help in getting this information.

Of course, all of this assumes that you still want to keep your children at the school. If not, then just blow the whole thing off and withdraw. I will admit though, my personality would push for me to go into this meeting (very well armed) just to see what they had to say!
 
#88 ·
Evan&Anna's Mom - Thanks! I found that same thing a few days ago, I think. It didn't have much info! And they haven't missed 10+ consecutive days, of course.

Thank you both. I'd love to know what the principal meant by saying those two people know Kyler. I didn't think to ask (otherwise, YES I WOULD HAVE) right then. :/
 
#89 ·
Goodness, I'm a teacher, and even I would withdraw my kids if I had the ability to homeschool and was getting this much trouble from the school. *hugs*

Good luck on whatever you decide to do!
 
#90 ·
UberMama,

I would've have pulled the boys by now. I wouldn't put up with this much cr.p, but that's just me. Do you have citizens advice centres where you live? Or someone with legal knowledge who could advocate on your behalf. I find that often just having a third person in some sort of official capacity helps authorities (or other agencies) change their attitude and do what they're supposed to do. Such as answer questions or take your words seriously. It also takes the stress off you a bit, if it's not you who has to do all the legwork.
Good luck!
 
#91 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Attila the Honey View Post
Everyone gave really good, reasonable tips but my gut is screaming at me. I'd just yank them right out of there and keep them home.

I completely agree...Good luck with the decision you make though
 
#92 ·
Tried to talk to the principal but I was told first that they didn't know where she was and then that she had left for a meeting.

Picked the boys up. Neither teacher would look me in the eye much less talk to me. Odd for Cameron's teacher but she may have been busy.


Kyler was very quiet and upset looking. I put them in the van and stood there asking him what was wrong. He said he left the classroom today and knew it was bad of him to do. Sigh. He's been watched by so many people besides DH and myself and doesn't do this stuff, why now? So he left the room and went into Cameron's classroom. He said his teacher came and got him, yanked him by his arm and dug her nail into his finger (he has skin missing on the knuckle of his thumb, a very small piece is missing). She took him back in his room, put him in timeout, told him he was a brat for not listening to her.

NOW he's five years old and fibs occasionally, so I don't totally trust his story. I grilled him quite a bit without getting upset with him. But his story remained consistent. I don't totally believe that a teacher would call a student a brat (to his face anyway). Especially with how kids repeat things. But that word is not used in our home, so I am unsure of where he heard it but again, could be from anywhere!

So I do believe he went into Cameron's classroom and got in trouble. We talked about why he just cannot do that. He feels terrible (again, I didn't get mad at him) and he's very quiet now. :/
 
#93 ·
Ok, then...after today's events...screw their meeting...it's time to call one of your own.

Kyler's teacher's discipline technique is completely inappropriate. I bet the reason why Cameron's teacher didn't look you in the eye is because she saw what happened and she knows it's inappropriate, too.

I'm sorry, that you and your sweet boys are having to deal with this, mama. I would pull them, given how things are not only NOT getting better, but are escalating.

Sounds like the school staff/principal are giving you the dodge, too. Time to get all this down in writing, and start documenting.



(PS, love both your kids names, Kyler has a special place in my heart...that was our #1 boy name, but she turned out to be a girl!
: Cameron was on my short list, too, but it doesn't quite go with our last name.)
 
#94 ·
I believe Kyler and I've certainly known teachers who called children "brat" and worse to their faces, and got away with it because children can't always be trusted to get their stories straight.

I've been following this thread, and I have to say that, after this last interaction, I really think it's time to pull your kids out and call an emergency meeting. Be prepared to walk out of the meeting and homeschool. But, have the meeting anyway, to find out what has been going on. I think you should call an emergency meeting - even if it's just with the principal - and take charge. Be a Mama Bear.
 
#95 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by UberMama View Post
Picked the boys up. Neither teacher would look me in the eye much less talk to me. Odd for Cameron's teacher but she may have been busy.


He said his teacher came and got him, yanked him by his arm and dug her nail into his finger (he has skin missing on the knuckle of his thumb, a very small piece is missing). She took him back in his room, put him in timeout, told him he was a brat for not listening to her.

NOW he's five years old and fibs occasionally, so I don't totally trust his story.

So I do believe he went into Cameron's classroom and got in trouble. We talked about why he just cannot do that. He feels terrible (again, I didn't get mad at him) and he's very quiet now. :/
HUGE red flags that your other sons teacher wouldn't even look you in the eye. I'd be on the phone to the superintendent of schools like.. yesterday. I can't believe she would go so far as to physically injure your child and resort to name calling. Kyler is 5yrs old.. what the hell is THEIR excuse? I don't think ANY of Kylers behavior is anywhere near as inappropriate as that teachers'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspiration View Post
Ok, then...after today's events...screw their meeting...it's time to call one of your own.
Yep, THAT. And I agree.. I'd be withdrawing them pronto, honestly the school has now adopted the attitude that you and your children are 'troublemakers' it sounds like. Once you're on the radar like that, it's near impossible to get treated any other way
 
#97 ·
Well, as a confirmed believer in traditional school for most kids, I'm not going to advocate for pulling and homeschooling, though even I would be tempted at this point, I think.

You shoud definitely take some sort of action immediately about this. I would do the following TODAY:
1. Document what your child said happened
2. Take a photo of his finger
3. Send letter and photo to school principal, copying district superintendent. If you have a family lawyer (or friend -- they don't actually have to be representing you), copy them -- implied legal action never hurts. In your letter, demand an immediate meeting with teachers (both children's), principal and parents. No one else. Purpose: discuss immediate transition from miss mean to miss nice's class for your child, and an apology for harming your child from miss mean. Base this request on the district's policy against bullying and their "respect each student" language. I noticed lots of good quotes in the handbook I read online -- use them liberally. Its very hard for them to argue with their own written value statements!
4. Keep kids home until said meeting happens. This hurts them because it impacts daily attendence and costs them money.

This gives you time to consider your next options. If you don't want to homeschool, now you have time to research private schools (with financial aid), charter schools, transfer within the district, whatever you are open to.

Of course, no action is closed to you if they refuse to meet with you without a phalanx of "experts" to intimidate you. If your second child wasn't doing well or was having similar problems, I would probably have a different response, but it seems a shame to impact something that is positive for him because of the negative experience of the other. Of course, that goes both ways and that sort of balancing act is what makes parenting more than one so much harder!

Oh, and hugs to you and your kids. This has gone beyond ridiculous!
 
#98 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom View Post
Well, as a confirmed believer in traditional school for most kids, I'm not going to advocate for pulling and homeschooling, though even I would be tempted at this point, I think.

You shoud definitely take some sort of action immediately about this. I would do the following TODAY:
1. Document what your child said happened
2. Take a photo of his finger
3. Send letter and photo to school principal, copying district superintendent. If you have a family lawyer (or friend -- they don't actually have to be representing you), copy them -- implied legal action never hurts. In your letter, demand an immediate meeting with teachers (both children's), principal and parents. No one else. Purpose: discuss immediate transition from miss mean to miss nice's class for your child, and an apology for harming your child from miss mean. Base this request on the district's policy against bullying and their "respect each student" language. I noticed lots of good quotes in the handbook I read online -- use them liberally. Its very hard for them to argue with their own written value statements!
4. Keep kids home until said meeting happens. This hurts them because it impacts daily attendence and costs them money.

This gives you time to consider your next options. If you don't want to homeschool, now you have time to research private schools (with financial aid), charter schools, transfer within the district, whatever you are open to.

Of course, no action is closed to you if they refuse to meet with you without a phalanx of "experts" to intimidate you. If your second child wasn't doing well or was having similar problems, I would probably have a different response, but it seems a shame to impact something that is positive for him because of the negative experience of the other. Of course, that goes both ways and that sort of balancing act is what makes parenting more than one so much harder!

Oh, and hugs to you and your kids. This has gone beyond ridiculous!
All of this.

Also document timelines, including the varying dates planned for meetings, and what they've told you (and not told you) about who would attend.

I would attach the timeline and the doctor's note.

Here's a link to your districts complaint protocol:
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/directives-...4/50/030_P.pdf

I would ask to see the principal and hand her the package, indicating that you're very concerned by the mysterious and convoluted process. That you don't want to have to start some formal process as you just want your children to be treated fairly and appropriately, but given yesterday's events and the continuing level of mystery, you have no choice. Then I'd drive to the district, give them a copy of the package and ask for a receipt from reception.
 
#99 ·
I have TONS of notes taken already. I have a timeline that's being added to all of the time. I have dates/times for all phone calls, in person interactions, etc. Every single thing is being documented, yes.

joensally, thanks for the link - looking at it now!
 
#100 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by UberMama View Post
He said his teacher came and got him, yanked him by his arm and dug her nail into his finger (he has skin missing on the knuckle of his thumb, a very small piece is missing).
Do all the documentation that you can including taking a photo of Kylers finger. Tomarrow keep Kyler home and go see the principal. I would demand that Kyler be moved to a new class, and point out that if you wanted to you could press charges (I personally wouldn't want to actually press charges, but it is your leverage.)

Hopefully the only reason Mrs. Nice wouldn't look you in the eye was b/c she was upset and embarassed by what had happened.
 
#101 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by UberMama View Post

Kyler was very quiet and upset looking. I put them in the van and stood there asking him what was wrong. He said he left the classroom today and knew it was bad of him to do. Sigh. He's been watched by so many people besides DH and myself and doesn't do this stuff, why now? So he left the room and went into Cameron's classroom. He said his teacher came and got him, yanked him by his arm and dug her nail into his finger (he has skin missing on the knuckle of his thumb, a very small piece is missing). She took him back in his room, put him in timeout, told him he was a brat for not listening to her.
I feel this issue needs to be dealt with separately from the meeting the principal is trying to arrange (especially since you do not know for sure what that meeting is about). It also needs to be dealt with immediately. Do you have email access to the teacher/principal? If so I would send out an email pronto saying how concerned you are about your sons transition to K. I would tell them this is what the child told me happened today. That I was concerned for his continued educational growth and emotional development (as long as you were certain they wouldn't take the ED aspect as a personal statement toward your son and not the negative environment).

I would ask for a meeting with both teachers (and principal if available) to happen tomorrow and I would make myself available anytime of the day. I would consider how the child feels about going to school tomorrow, and use the fact that he left one classroom to either be with his twin or twin's teacher as a launching point to try to get Kyler moved. If needed I would bring in/cite documentation on splitting up twins in their first year an institutionalized school setting. I would try to put the emphasis on Kyler's feelings and how the environment in his classroom is affecting him over my own feelings on it. I would go in with the advocate-mom hat on and say "This is what my child says, fix it". If the child is confused over what really happened then the teacher still needs to resolve it with the child. She may or may not have said "brat" (to me it's a moot point), if he interpreted her actions or words to be calling him a brat then that's what he believes. It needs to be dealt with either way.

Whether you pull him out or not this still needs to be dealt with so he can understand what is going on and get personal resolution over it.
 
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