Birthing/Laboring legal rights? - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 13 Old 06-20-2009, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
Friendlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 577
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'll be speaking with my OB soon about some choices I've made about how I want to labor and birth, however, it's a small town, traditional hospital with doctors who get very frustrated with me when I try to treat something naturally or do anything more naturally. (But, man, I've had way more success with homeopathic medicine than conventional medicine).

I am guessing my choices will be met with some opposition and I want to be prepared by knowing the difference in what I actually have the right to demand between what I am asking them to please comply with.

Having a doula would surely solve this problem, but we're trying to avoid having to pay someone. I can't seem to find anything on the internet about Indiana's mothers' rights around labor and delivery. Here are some of the things I'd like to do:


-Deny an IV
-Deny constant fetal monitoring
-Labor in positions other than on back (standing up/hands and knees, etc)
-Delay cord clamping/cutting for as long as the cord pulsates
-Tell the nurses to be quiet instead of guiding me in the pushing (want to push naturally with the urges and breathe through the pushes allowing the peristalsis movement to help me along)
-Use hot wash cloths on the perineum (I'm sure they won't let my husband in that close while they're doing their thing, so I want to ask if a nurse will do this. Is that likely?)
-Allow the pushing stage to progress at it's own pace to allow time for stretching
-Breast feed immediately after birth (or I guess immediately after the cord is finally cut)
-(This one is just a maybe) Leave the vernix unwashed? I need to research this one a little more


It seems they'll just tell me about how they "..don't normally do that." as if that's a sufficient explanation of "no". I've had to be extremely assertive so far and it's so annoying. So if they tell me they don't do something and I demand it and it turns out to be against the law, I don't want to look like an idiot. (I found out home-birthing was actually illegal in our state and was shocked).


So the question is...Does anyone know how I figure out what I have the right to and what I do not?
Friendlee is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 13 Old 06-20-2009, 11:12 AM
 
StephM76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 642
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Most of those things can be avoided if you wait to go in until the very end of your labor.

I think you'd have a better chance finding out the hospital's policy on everything. Because your doctor definitely won't do it if its against their policy.

Is there a birth center near you? Or a midwife who works in a hospital?

Stephanie, Mama to five beautiful kids, wife to J
 
StephM76 is offline  
#3 of 13 Old 06-20-2009, 04:17 PM
 
piratemere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 820
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you don't want to pay a doula, you may be able to find either a midwife or a doula in training who would be willing to do it for free or for a very discounted rate. I planned on a homebirth and ended up in the hospital with a C-Section and would pay the midwives ten times over for their support. Having good support is imperative!

"Well behaved women seldom make history." Laurel Ulrich   To make my mark I familybed2.gifnovaxnocirc.giffly-by-nursing2.giffemalesling.GIFhbac.gif waterbirth.jpgcd.gif adoptionheart-1.gif, among other things,  and try to live a sustainable, natural life. My brood includes DD1, DS1 2 and 3, and expecting another in Aug 2014. 
piratemere is offline  
#4 of 13 Old 06-20-2009, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
Friendlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 577
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
From what I understand, there is one CMN who works in the hospital, but I also hear that she is quite medicalized in her approach. No birthing centers here at all. I haven't seen any doulas in training (but, great idea!). There are only two doulas that I can find in our area.

So I've been trying to find out about the policies...they don't seem to be posted anywhere and I've emailed with no response. (I don't want to ask the doctor for the whole list of policies-that would take forever). The only policies are very vague about how you have the right to care and the right to refuse care but that the doctor may choose not to treat you. Wondering if there is some way to just get a copy of the policies maternity policies so that I can look over them in the comfort of my own home.
Friendlee is offline  
#5 of 13 Old 06-20-2009, 04:42 PM
 
joyakshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Fort Collins
Posts: 562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Patient's rights may be similar to labor & birthing rights. I believe any patient can refuse care, or portions of care. Something may be a hospital policy, but you can often still refuse it. whether you can in the throes of labor without an advocate or support person is another question, if you don't have a supportive doc.
None of the things you want seems that major that it would be against hospital policy, except the IV. Some require it, some don't. But I believe you can still refuse it.
Or get a hep lock - they put the needle in but don't attach it to the IV line, so you can move, but your hand might hurt.
Good luck - no one wants to feel like they have to fight during labor.
joyakshi is offline  
#6 of 13 Old 06-20-2009, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
Friendlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 577
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hmmm, yeah, concerned about that IV issue....I'm assuming an IV would prevent me from pushing while squatting or however feels comfortable. I also could imagine them saying that they aren't equipped to "catch" the baby from a standing mother?
Friendlee is offline  
#7 of 13 Old 06-20-2009, 04:53 PM
 
springbride's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Due Date Crashing here,
I just went through similar concerns recently. I found that the most effective way to get a response from the hospital was to call the Labor & Delivery floor and talk to the nurses.
I also found that I got better answers from my OB when I only brought up 1 or 2 items/appointment, as opposed to coming in with a big list.

Working, freshly graduated! mama.  Loving life with DHguitar.gif , DD 7/09energy.gif, and DS 06/11 babyboy.gif.
 
 
 
  

 
springbride is offline  
#8 of 13 Old 06-20-2009, 06:04 PM
 
by-the-lake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Northern Wisconsin
Posts: 1,134
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Crashing as well.

Springbride has a good suggestion about just calling the OB floor. I believe that policies aren't up for perusal for the public, as they are written for the hospital as part of how they are insured. ( I say this being an OB RN). However, make your wishes known, write your plan, stay home as long as comfortable, and just say 'no, no, no'. Best of luck

Wife to DHluxlove.gif DS 98thumb.gif DD 03flower.gif DS 09 babyf.gifwinner.jpgcd.gifnovaxnocirc.gif

She is here!!! Oct 5th!!!joy.gif

 

by-the-lake is offline  
#9 of 13 Old 06-23-2009, 02:05 AM
 
fyrebloom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: North of Boston, South of sanity
Posts: 1,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Legally your Dr cannot drop you as a patient without 30 days notice. If you show up at 38 weeks or so and say I plan to refuse x, y and z they must still attend your birth.

However, Drs have a way of twisting things when you are in labor and unable to fight. They tell you how your baby is going to die if they don't do this or that and before you know it you're in the OR or maybe you've just had every OTHER intervention (as I had with my DS... they even gave me an episiotomy. The Dr seemed to go through my birth plan and went against EVERYTHING I wrote. She even tried to use forceps on my son! ). It is darned near impossible to fight sometimes and the interventions cascade quickly. This is the advantage of a doula (assuming they allow the doula to stay... I doula'd for a friend and was thrown out of the birthing room... they nearly killed her and the baby and she had a c-section).

I'm a huge advocate of homebirth since there is so much risk involved in just stepping foot in the hospital, but if you do still choose to go that route, then def get a doula. So legally you can refuse alot of stuff, but sometimes they really don't give you a choice. Buyer beware.

Lucia , Poly )O( Lactation Counseling mama lady.gifvbac.gifto 5 yo Goobersuperhero.gif and 3 1/2 yo MZ twins twins.gif Peanut and Sweetpea and 1yo Pumpkinbabyf.gif mmm placenta.gif
fyrebloom is offline  
#10 of 13 Old 06-23-2009, 08:42 AM
 
mysticmomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 5,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I wouldn't even bring this stuff up if I was going to birth in a hospital. I'd just say no thanks when I got there.

hh2.gif

mysticmomma is offline  
#11 of 13 Old 06-23-2009, 09:21 AM
 
katelove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,884
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
All the things which you listed as not wanting, such as an IV or continuous foetal monitoring, require your consent and you absolutely have the right to refuse them. It would be assault if an IV was sited without your consent for example. Just tell them to document that you have refused. If they're doing their job properly they will need to make sure you understand the implications of your decision but, if you've already done all the research then they won't be saying anything you don't already know. Hospital policy is not law, the staff must adhere to it but you don't have to, you can say no to anything.

The things where you actively want them to do something, such as warm cloths to the perineum, you can request them, and be as demanding as you like but it may be a little more difficult as they actively have to do something. I find saying "So are you telling me you are refusing to do xxxx?" has a wonderfully motivating effect on most people though.

The ones where you want them to keep quiet or give you more time etc, will probably require a strong advocate who can provide reminders as needed. Your doula or partner would be ideal candidates for this role.

Do you have any contact with the maternity unit before you go in in labour? If so I would advice taking your birth plan in and discussing it with the staff at each visit. Make sure there is a copy in your notes and take another copy with you when you go in in labour. This way you can address any concerns and issues before labour when you will be in a better position to discuss your choice and the reasons for them.

Mother of two spectacular girls, born mid-2010 and late 2012  mdcblog5.gif

katelove is offline  
#12 of 13 Old 06-23-2009, 11:10 AM
 
boobs4milk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chasing my toddler!
Posts: 2,930
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fyrebloom View Post

However, Drs have a way of twisting things when you are in labor and unable to fight. They tell you how your baby is going to die if they don't do this or that and before you know it you're in the OR or maybe you've just had every OTHER intervention (as I had with my DS... they even gave me an episiotomy. The Dr seemed to go through my birth plan and went against EVERYTHING I wrote. She even tried to use forceps on my son! ). It is darned near impossible to fight sometimes and the interventions cascade quickly. This is the advantage of a doula (assuming they allow the doula to stay... I doula'd for a friend and was thrown out of the birthing room... they nearly killed her and the baby and she had a c-section).
THIS.

I came armed with a birth plan at my last birth and the Dr. oncall and then the attending both freaked out on me. Gave me the whole 'you are going to kill your baby' speach and refused to help my labor along even though I was having extremely high b/p, bleeding, and had been shown to have placental failure on u/s. My DH looked at the guy and said 'what do you want? A slightly premature baby OR a lawsuit when you don't give us the medical care we PAY FOR.' I got things to go my way!

I always go in with the "I'd like to do things this way, when it's medically safe' attitude and I usually don't have issues with MY OB. However, there's a 1 in 10 chance she won't be the one attending the birth. I had been to L&D before I gave birth, so I had them put my wishes on the FRONT of the chart. I'll be bringing a list to L&D this time as well and discussing it with the staff.

I am willing to make concessions, but not when I get or feel threatened. As for the not washing...I've never had my kids washes after birth. The nurses sometimes freak out about the bio-hazards and I remind them where they work LOL At most hospitals, the 'bath' consists of pouring baby shampoo on a wet rag and scrubbing the baby. They 'rinse' the baby with another wet rag. NOT happening to my newborn! It is the one thing I will NOT allow or make concessions on.

Good luck!

Jen-loving Bill, mama to Teryn 18, Kalyn 16, Ricky 13, Natalie 5, Angel Zoe '07 and rainbow1284.gifAmelia Rae 22 mos bonus kids (dss) W 14, W 13 NEW grandbaby due 10/10/11

boobs4milk is offline  
#13 of 13 Old 06-23-2009, 09:07 PM
 
momma_unlimited's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: in the Rolling Hills
Posts: 518
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've heard repeatedly that you are most likely to have things go contrary to your wishes with a complicated birth plan.

Seriously, this is worth the money for a doula... how can you have a relaxing birth if you have to advocate for yourself?

And I second the "get the iv hep lock and stay unattached to the drip" idea...

The thing is, dr.'s get more nervous and uppity and primed to intervene when they have to keep making what they consider "concessions..." not a reason to abandon your hopes and dreams, but try to think about the least intrusive way to do it (and I agree with other posters that one way to do this is to spring it on em last minute instead of planning out well in advance the things you wish to refuse)...
momma_unlimited is offline  
Reply

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off