Talk to me about circumcision...why or why not??? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 45 Old 05-17-2009, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by brightonwoman View Post
I know LOTS of LDS families who have kept their sons intact.
I just wanted to say thank you for sharing your personal blog with me on this topic! I know it is such a sensitive topic for many. Because this has never come up until now (because we're having our first boy) I've never really stopped to think about circumcision before....its not something you just go around talking about, ya know? But, our friends that I mentioned earlier are LDS as well, and I know one family in our ward who didn't circ any of their 4 boys (they also have 2 daughters). These families are both homeschoolers too and tend to do things more naturally...so I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not???? (we HS too, and over the years have come around to using herbs, essential oils, having a home birth, etc) I was talking with my dad about it yesterday. He is 63 years old and intact, as are his brothers and his father was also. So I do have family support on this subject, except from my sisters who have all boys and both had their sons circ'd. The one asked me about it last week and I think she was shocked to hear that I am highly considering leaving him intact. But when it comes down to it, the decision has to be purely between me and DH. He said he's going to spend time today looking into everything that I got from here yesterday!
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#32 of 45 Old 05-17-2009, 11:18 AM
 
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Most of what I think on this topic has already been posted, and a lot of great resources (websites/etc) have been offered on this thread.

I just wanted to add another issue that I haven't seen discussed and is not very common. My oldest son had a circ. when he was an infant. As he grew older, he developed psoriasis on his penis. He now sees a dermatologist regularly and has to put ointment on it daily in order to keep the psoriasis at bay. He doesn't have skin issues on any other part of his body, nor is there any family history of psoriasis. I feel that we unintentionally may have caused this problem in our choice to circ. him and it makes me so sad that this is now a condition that he has to deal with his whole life.

Needless to say, our younger son is intact and has no skin issues yet (knock on wood).

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#33 of 45 Old 05-17-2009, 11:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by skydancer View Post
Most of what I think on this topic has already been posted, and a lot of great resources (websites/etc) have been offered on this thread.

I just wanted to add another issue that I haven't seen discussed and is not very common. My oldest son had a circ. when he was an infant. As he grew older, he developed psoriasis on his penis. He now sees a dermatologist regularly and has to put ointment on it daily in order to keep the psoriasis at bay. He doesn't have skin issues on any other part of his body, nor is there any family history of psoriasis. I feel that we unintentionally may have caused this problem in our choice to circ. him and it makes me so sad that this is now a condition that he has to deal with his whole life.

Needless to say, our younger son is intact and has no skin issues yet (knock on wood).

STBDH has the same issue. It gets worse in the winter for some reason. I said maybe it is because of the circ? I also told him if this is a boy we are not circing him we talked it out and I brought up the sex part he was shocked and I think a little sad that he was circed we haven't spoke of it since but to me when he said wow really and he knows what my Ds went through I think the case is closed.

One religous arguement I would think (I am not LDS) would be this is how God made us we shouldn't mess with his work right?

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#34 of 45 Old 05-17-2009, 02:14 PM
 
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I also think this article The Vulnerability of Men can be really helpful.
That is the Vincent Bach article I mentioned before I just had a kiddo hollering for me and didnt' have time to go find the link

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#35 of 45 Old 05-17-2009, 02:16 PM
 
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I see you have had a lot of responses so I will keep my 2 cents short... I have 1 circ'd and 3 intact sons. Honestly I am not sure they have even noticed that one is different. Yes intact little boys will have some lint (I think it is called schegma??) collect under their foreskin and it looks concerning until you know what it is and that it is harmless. We have always just left al aspects of their penises alone and so far all has been fine.

I too was worried about the Old Testament covenant aspect of circumcision. A minister explained to me that when Christ suffered, died and resurrected he fulfilled the covenant. The traditions of the Old Testament are no longer binding to the Christian person - i.e. it is permissible for us to eat non-kosher products. I am not a biblical scholar by any stretch of the imagination - that is just what was explained to me. If you are of the Jewish faith obviously there would be a different set of considerations.

Good luck with the decision - it was hard for us the first time. I have always kept in mind that they can always be circumcised - but it doesn't work the other way around.
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#36 of 45 Old 05-17-2009, 10:59 PM
 
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Figured I'd chime in on this subject since I do have a son. Three girls and then finally a boy. We chose not to circ even though dh is. My husband wishes that he was left intact, and agreed wholeheartedly to keep our son intact. He's only 15 months old, but so far it hasn't been any different than cleaning my daughters at that age. No extra steps, nothing. Just wipe everything like usual and otherwise, leave it alone.

When I was reading about it during my last pregnancy, the case against circ forum was really what made my decision very clear.

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#37 of 45 Old 05-18-2009, 11:43 AM
 
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I'll try to keep my answer brief, too

My husband is circ'd, so he said he wanted a boy circ'd too.

He cited "it's cleaner" -- my response is that a washed penis is cleaner, not a cut one.

He said something about protection against STD's -- my response is that abstinence and safer sex protects against STD's, not a cut penis.

He said it "looked" better -- careful with this one! I didn't not want to retort that it did not look better, but instead countered with cosmetic surgery on an infant who cannot have a say in the procedure is unethical.

He mentioned a lowered risk of penile cancer -- my answer was that we do not lop off baby girls' breasts to have a lower risk of breast cancer, so why cut off a piece of the penis for the same reason?

He said, "It's just a flap of skin! What's the big deal?" -- I challenged him to Google the form and function of the foreskin and then get back to me on that.

He has since relented and said that we will not circ a boy if we have one (though he came to this begrudgingly and will sometimes mention that he "has no say" in his future son's penis). I'll take a reluctant agreement, to be honest. He knows I'm right.

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#38 of 45 Old 05-18-2009, 12:06 PM
 
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(though he came to this begrudgingly and will sometimes mention that he "has no say" in his future son's penis). I'll take a reluctant agreement, to be honest. He knows I'm right.
Good for you!

The response to the statement above is:

"that's right...only our future son has a say in his own penis"

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#39 of 45 Old 05-18-2009, 12:43 PM
 
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The one asked me about it last week and I think she was shocked to hear that I am highly considering leaving him intact. But when it comes down to it, the decision has to be purely between me and DH.

We don't know yet if we are having a boy or a girl, but my dh and I have briefly discussed circumcision. He's very chill about it and open to reading literature, I see it being very easy to come to an agreement about leaving our son intact. (Dh hates hospitals and medical stuff anyway so I know one reason will be that he'll be happy to help our son avoid being sliced up when he's like, 1 day old).

That being said, when my Mom and sister find out...they will have a hard time with it. Especially since my sister has two circ'd boys and will likely see my decision to leave a possible son intact as a judgment against her decision. But honestly, I knew nothing about circ vs. no circ when she had her sons, and if dd had been a boy I fear I would have done it, thank God she was a girl and I've since been hanging around MDC! So I don't judge her, she did what she thought was best for her sons at the time. Anyway, my plan is not to mention it at all. It's not really their business and will only cause tension. My Mom will be there for the birth so she'll obviously figure it out pretty quickly, and we'll deal with it then. She'll be fine with it, just a little freaked out at first. I mean, she was a part of a generation that was told that the foreskin was "totally unnecessary" and even dangerous! So I don't blame her.

But you're right Shanti Mom, it's up to you and your dh, which is how I feel too. So good for you for doing your research, I'm sure you'll both make the right choice for your son.

Wife to dh and mama to : dd (7/08) and ds (11/09)
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#40 of 45 Old 05-18-2009, 10:12 PM
 
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You know, I thought there would be judgment from friends and family when we left our ds intact. But honestly, no one really cared. Not a single one of them left their sons intact and they still never said anything to me.
Maybe they already know I'm the weird one. LOL

Sometimes I think we worry about what others might say unnecessarily. Besides, you can always tell them that your babys penis isn't their concern. Really, its a bit creepy for random people to be offended over your childs foreskin. LOL

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#41 of 45 Old 05-18-2009, 11:08 PM
 
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I'm not circumcising my son (pretty sure this baby is a boy, altho I don't have confirmation just yet).

I didn't come to this decision lightly, but I do believe with all that I've read out there, it makes absolutely no sense to circumcise him based on what used to be the norm of our society.

This is the information age and we have at our disposal more information than ever before and I firmly believe we owe it to ourselves to make use of it.

It's not easy to go against the grain of society. We often feel judged, but when it comes to our most precious commodity, our children, we can't let those societal pressures make us falter on important issues.

I love the USA, but darned if we don't often perpetuate the silliest ideals, even if they fly in the face of the latest research or logic. I have yet to find a compelling enough argument that would influence me to do perform this type of major surgery on one of my newborns.

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#42 of 45 Old 05-19-2009, 01:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by ExuberantDaffodil View Post

He has since relented and said that we will not circ a boy if we have one (though he came to this begrudgingly and will sometimes mention that he "has no say" in his future son's penis). I'll take a reluctant agreement, to be honest. He knows I'm right.
I think I'm about 95% there with my DH!!! I love all your counter-arguments!! My DH knows I'm right, but its really hard to admit when I'm right and he's not. My favorite part tonight was getting a message back from our midwife on this topic. He had earlier said, "well what is L's opinion on circ?" So I sent her a Facebook message tonight and she replied right back...totally against it!! hahahahahaha! It was priceless to read the whole message to my DH. :nana: Then, I've come up with the term "take a whack at your son's willey"....for some reason that makes him laugh, but gives him something to think about.
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#43 of 45 Old 05-19-2009, 11:06 AM
 
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This is the information age and we have at our disposal more information than ever before and I firmly believe we owe it to ourselves to make use of it.

This is a great point, but in another way as well. Your son will have all this info and more. He will know that you had the information at the time he was born and if you cut him, he'll be really confused that you had all this, knew it was wrong and did it anyway.

Victim of Birth Rape & Coerced ribboncesarean.gifUnnecesareanribboncesarean.gif What makes people think they can cut up someone else's genitals? nocirc.gif
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#44 of 45 Old 05-19-2009, 04:51 PM
 
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Part of what convinced dh was the argument that an infant can't give consent to the procedure (he's big on not forcing things on people).

Part of what convinced dh was the argument that all surgery carries risk, so it's not a good idea to have it done unnecessarily.

Part of what convinced dh was the argument that the circ rate has gone way down since he was a kid, so our son won't be the only one.

I think, though, that the biggest thing was my telling him that I've had sex with an intact male, and the presence or absence of a foreskin was just not a big deal to me either way. I think he was worried on one hand that girls would think our son gross, and worried on the other hand that *I* somehow secretly thought *him* gross.

He's still not 100% on board with it, but he's going to let me have my way, which is all I can ask for I guess. I'm actually more worried about my mother's reaction because she is RABIDLY pro-circ AND will be the baby's major caregiver for a large part of the baby's infancy. That by itself makes me hope for a girl....

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#45 of 45 Old 05-19-2009, 11:03 PM
 
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personally speaking, I found intimacy with the couple of intact men I've been with to be gentler on the whole. Shhhh.

I'm glad you guys can have a good, healthy conversation about it, Shanti_Mom. I sorely wish someone had sat down with me and explained it all when I had my son 5 years ago.

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