Elsa Louise: a lesson in best laid plans - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 51 Old 02-28-2010, 07:28 PM
 
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I wonder if she's in pain? What seems to preceed her screaming? Does she start to nurse and then pull off and scream? Or she just starts right away being near the breast?

Have you tried letting her self-attach?

Do you get her when she starts to show early signs of hunger (cues like turning to her hand/hand to mouth, umm the fact that she is waking up and moving)? Or wait until she is crying with hunger?

Do you have flat nipples or inverted nipples?

I'm sorry, it's so disheartening and frustrating to have these troubles and not know what's going on or what to do. Hang in there mama.

Have you seen this?
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/index.html
http://www.drjacknewman.com/

Do you have help with meals and stuff?

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#32 of 51 Old 03-01-2010, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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She won't even start. If I get her to my breast she starts screaming and if I get the nipple in her mouth she won't close it. I've tried reading her cues but trying to get her to nurse just gets her mad, and my nipples aren't flat or inverted.

I don't know how to go about self-attaching.

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#33 of 51 Old 03-02-2010, 04:06 PM
 
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A-MAZING...I am always impressed by our babies (and body's) ability to just KNOW when its not going to work...reading your story assures me that my C-section after 58 hours of being stuck at 3cm, was because of some reason, though not apparhent to the doctors or myself...he just kept deceling and not coming back up...when they got in there they couldn't see what was wrong and causing it...but reading your story...it helped IMMENSELY to know that, indeed my body and baby both knew that we needed to do this another way. Congrats on your darling Elsa!
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#34 of 51 Old 03-02-2010, 09:45 PM
 
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Did your baby have deep suctioning after birth? She may have developed an oral aversion or lost the "reflex" to nurse. Do you think she prefers other feeding methods like cup or tube feeding?

I'm sorry, this is SUCH a frustrating time. My first baby did this.

Self-attaching = letting baby sniff, lick and try to latch on by herself. It may work in an unexpected position such as you lying on your back, and baby lying tummy on your tummy. She may start to edge up and try to attach that way.

Just an idea.

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#35 of 51 Old 03-03-2010, 04:53 AM
 
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Welcome to baby Elsa!

I am so sorry you are having nursing difficulties. I went through that with my first daughter and you are right, it felt like my world was falling apart. We did overcome it but it took a LOT of hard work. Our first 1-2 months were really hard. It was worth it in the end, though. We eventually had an exclusive breastfeeding relationship and she nursed for 2.5 years.

First of all, besides an LC (and make sure you're seeing an IBCLC) you should really talk to your local LLL. They were a big help to me. I was afraid to call at first and didn't really get hooked into a group until later, but they were so kind and supportive and so helpful. They will understand how much you want to nurse and should have some good ideas, things you may not have thought to try.

Second, if you are feeding her pumped milk and/or formula, I would strongly advise you to not use a bottle. I did at first and I think it made things worse--basically we were fighting nipple preference as well as whatever it was that was going on before. We switched to alternative feeding methods, cup-feeding or dropper, and that helped I think. The way I eventually got her on the breast was actually through a nipple shield. I didn't have a physical problem that required one, I think my daughter just liked it because it was similar to a bottle. After a few weeks of the shield I was able to get her on the breast without and we never looked back.

I hope you get lots of help and that your nursing relationship becomes much smoother very quickly!

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#36 of 51 Old 03-03-2010, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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She gets on now but still isn't latching effectively. It's too shallow and I can feel my nipples getting sore again. I'm afraid of them getting as bad as they were before. I don't think she's getting enough this way either because she falls asleep after a few minutes.

The only person I've found who can come out to my house to help me costs 150$.

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#37 of 51 Old 03-03-2010, 03:36 PM
 
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Hi there -- I also have a baby who isn't great at latching. The best latch we get is when my husband helps me get her on there, he has a way of forcing her to open her mouth wide (makes her reach for it). Also, she fusses quite a bit and puts her hands in the way of her mouth, and she is *strong*, so it's really hard to get it right. My nipples are really sore and I am doing the best I can, but I understand what you are going through.

Is there a breastfeeding support group anywhere near you? Or, do you have some accurate scales? The best reassurance I got with my first (who was exactly the same) was to weigh her, then feed her, then weigh her again. This tells you how much she has drunk, and it's usually more than you would think!
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#38 of 51 Old 03-03-2010, 05:45 PM
 
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As for the shallow latch, have you tried any tricks like running your nipple along her upper lip to get her to open up? Do you compress your breast and hold it in a shape to make more nipple fit more easily into her mouth? Do you try to get her to latch, watch for a big mouth and then SWIFTLY place her on?

http://www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=...tion&Itemid=17

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#39 of 51 Old 03-03-2010, 07:21 PM
 
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She gets on now but still isn't latching effectively. It's too shallow and I can feel my nipples getting sore again. I'm afraid of them getting as bad as they were before. I don't think she's getting enough this way either because she falls asleep after a few minutes.

The only person I've found who can come out to my house to help me costs 150$.
If you have the money, a good IBCLC can be worth her weight in gold. If you don't have it, then you don't have it--but if you do have it and you are trying to decide you could weigh it against the cost of formula in the long run. I'm not trying to scare you, but early intervention is really important when it comes to preserving a breastfeeding relationship. It can make all the difference in the world.

How is Elsa's diaper count? That's the best way of telling if she is getting enough.

Blair, mom to the amazing Nora (8/06) ribboncesarean.gif, sweet Anneliese (2/10) vbac.gif, and super Henry (8/12) vbac.gif

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#40 of 51 Old 03-03-2010, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm sure she's getting enough, but I don't think she's getting hindmilk. She has been having about 4 poops a day (usually there's pee with those) but it's still not EBF poop.

She just won't open. I've tried everything to get her to open wide but she just won't. And then if I mess with it too long she gets upset and she's hard to calm.

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#41 of 51 Old 03-03-2010, 08:29 PM
 
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Do you have a breast-pump? Because if you are worried she is not getting hindmilk, you could try pumping out the foremilk? I have been quite engorged and have been doing this some days.
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#42 of 51 Old 03-03-2010, 08:44 PM
 
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what about tongue tie? Does her tongue come out fully? Is it heart shaped or does it look like she can reach the top of her mouth? My dd had trouble with latching because of this...
GL and congrats!

caution: one-handed nak

typos likely

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#43 of 51 Old 03-03-2010, 08:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ninetales View Post
I'm sure she's getting enough, but I don't think she's getting hindmilk. She has been having about 4 poops a day (usually there's pee with those) but it's still not EBF poop.

She just won't open. I've tried everything to get her to open wide but she just won't. And then if I mess with it too long she gets upset and she's hard to calm.
The number of pee and poops is great, though! Very encouraging. Makes this whole situation much less of an emergency, know what I mean? My daughter is 2.5 weeks old and she didn't start having those yellow/breastmilk poops until she was 10 days old. She was gaining weight the whole time, though, so I figured she was doing okay.

Have you tried doing breast compressions while nursing? That's the best way I know to keep a baby awake/interested. Here's a video that illustrates how to do compressions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJrBRYxDNSE

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#44 of 51 Old 03-03-2010, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't think it's a tongue tie issue. She sucks on fingers with no problem and the dr didn't see a problem with it. I just can't figure out the latch or get her to open.

She has an appt at the chiro on fri and I'm going to keep looking for someone to help us that we can afford. Just taking it one day at a time.

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#45 of 51 Old 03-03-2010, 11:17 PM
 
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Will insurance pay for a lactation consultant? What about a pediatrician? Some pedis and some midwives have LC training.

The Kellymom website is a really good one. Sorry the BFing Challenges board wasnt able to help. Does baby cry at the breast because she's too hungry to latch on? Can you feed her more frequently/spend a day in bed nursing? I wonder if a high palate situation could cause this? Or any possibility of oral thrush?

I agree with what was said previously -- the early days are VERY important; pull out all the stops to get this figured out ASAP! (Speaking from experience of being a boneheaded stubborn lazy person over here who is regretting her slothfulness now that her supply is low!)

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#46 of 51 Old 03-03-2010, 11:27 PM
 
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Did you see this? http://www.kellymom.com/newman/26bab..._to_latch.html

Tamara: Aspiring doula, partner to Brazilian musician, mom to THREE GIRLIES!
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#47 of 51 Old 03-03-2010, 11:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have looked around at that site but haven't been able to use the information. My problem is getting her to open wide and take enough breast. Also I've noticed her lower lip is always tucked in. I've tried the lower lip flip suggested by Sears but I can't seem to be able to do it.

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#48 of 51 Old 03-06-2010, 11:28 PM
 
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How are things going now? I hope the BFing has gotten better.

***
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#49 of 51 Old 03-07-2010, 12:08 AM
 
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Have you thought about a nipple shield? I've been using one this time around and it REALLY makes a difference for me - I have flattish nipples so it's hard to get enough nipple in his mouth without the shield. Now at almost 4 weeks I can get him to latch easily without the shield when we're sitting up and I can really line everything up correctly - but I'm still using it for lying down. One step at a time, right? I hope you find the support you need! Have you looked into your local La Leche League chapter?

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#50 of 51 Old 03-08-2010, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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We're doing lots better. I think it's working for the most part. I still don't think we're doing it "right" but it doesn't hurt as bad and she's getting her milkies so I'm going with it.

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#51 of 51 Old 03-08-2010, 04:01 PM
 
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Yay! It will get easier as her mouth gets bigger.

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