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#1 of 103 Old 07-07-2010, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So, this bambino is stubbornly breech. It's little head is always bobbing around under my right rib cage. Usually with a hand up by it's face, he/she will push back when you push down. Baby was that way in the ultrasound back at 20 weeks, and my visits at 24 weeks and 28 weeks. I'm now 30 weeks and starting to get alarmed. Not so much that baby IS breech, but that baby is always in the same place! My DS was often breech until about 34 weeks but he flipped around alot, this baby doesn't seem to do much of that. He/she is quite happy in this position, kind of sitting in a side ways C. At the last visit the midwife said not to worry most babies turn between 28 and 32 weeks but she would recommend seeing a Chiro. regularly to help ensure a good position, as this baby has been in this transverse/breech position at every visit. Well, I have been seeing a chiro, one trained in Webster who specializes in pregnant women and children, once every 2 weeks for the last 10 weeks. Clearly this is not helping the matter.

I'm wondering if it's time to start some of the spinning babies stuff? When is it time to get alarmed? The 'OMG baby is breech, I'll need a c-section, I don't have an OB...' panic is creeping in.

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#2 of 103 Old 07-07-2010, 04:36 PM
 
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I don't have a lot of wisdom to add, but wanted to commiserate because I've had "bad positioning" worries all throughout this pregnancy. My LO seems to prefer transverse, but sometimes I can't tell her position. I don't remember feeling as many low movements with DS who as head down from 20ish weeks on. He just never budged from that position, so this is all new to me. I know it's early too, but....the what if's will drive you crazy. For me, a hospital birth of any kind would mean meeting my $3,000 deductible, meeting LO's $3,000 deductible, then paying 30% of the rest of the charges. Oh, did I mention DH hasn't been working regularly since February and our savings is getting close to empty.

I'd definitely ask your MW about starting spinning babies stuff. I doubt it would hurt anything at this point. I had a friend who had planned a homebirth and had a persistently breech baby. In his case, his cord was super short, and he likely wouldn't have been able to be born vaginally anyway. I think that sort of thing is extremely rare though.

Andrea...wife, SAHM to 3.5 yo DS and 1 yo DD.

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#3 of 103 Old 07-07-2010, 05:58 PM
 
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Fwiw this babe was breech and then hanging out in a lazy C for the longest and I was totally obsessed with the idea that it was going to stay breech. I read tons of material, got good and freaked out, I felt like the position changed over the weekend then I had my 29 week MW appt. yesterday and said to her that the fear of breech had been my BIG worry this pg...well, the babe was totally head down. We can literally feel the head down there now and see its little toosh protruding around my belly button So I wouldn't lose hope yet mama!! I will be sending 'Flip, Baby, Flip!' vibes your way!

Kellylady.gif, married to the love of my life, Denpeace.gif , DD1 5/07dust.gif , 11/07, DD2 10/08modifiedartist.gif , DDS 8/10jammin.gif, expecting our next blessing this winter!

 
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#4 of 103 Old 07-07-2010, 07:32 PM
 
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I wouldn't worry yet, but I would start reading the spinning babies site and doing some of the positions/stretches/exercises there.

RedOak ~ Momma to DS (8) , DS (4) , DD (3) , & DD 9/10 ~
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#5 of 103 Old 07-07-2010, 08:12 PM
 
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I would also start the spinning babies exercises. I looked at them the other day, because I'm also a bit worried about position, and have started doing an inversion every now and again (but probably less than I should be). The basic exercises are pretty simple and can't do any harm, and definitely might help. Also, the spinning babies website seems to say that the exercises work better if you start them sooner.
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#6 of 103 Old 07-08-2010, 09:56 AM
 
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Yes, do the spinning babies!

With #1, he flipped just fine - he was not stubborn but I think I did some inversions just in case. BUT - he was back to back for a while, and so I did a lot of hands and knees to ward off back labor. And I went to my chiropractor a lot. He was perfectly positioned for his birth.

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#7 of 103 Old 07-08-2010, 10:31 AM
 
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My DS was the same way--breech from 28 weeks on up until 34 weeks, when I was just starting to drift off one night and he decided to flip. Anyway, your babe does have plenty of time to turn, but spinning babies couldn't hurt. Good luck!

Perpetually pregnant mother and maestra. C (7/07), C (10/08) and a player to be named later--due 9/10.
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#8 of 103 Old 07-08-2010, 11:36 AM
 
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I'd start doing spinning babies and other tricks. I wouldn't start to stress or worry until 33-34 weeks.

Kelly (28), in love with husband Jason (38) and our awesome babies:  Emma 4/09, and Ozzy 8/10

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#9 of 103 Old 07-08-2010, 11:55 AM
 
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I told my mom yesterday I feel like there'sa 50/50 chance that I'll either have the natural birth center birth I'm planning or a c-section for transverse lie. I do the spinning babies stuff. It gets her to move....while I'm doing it. Then she's right back to transverse.

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#10 of 103 Old 07-08-2010, 12:28 PM
 
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Another dumb question from the newb...

How do you know if baby is breech?

At what point do you need to start spinning that baby because it's unlikely s/he'll be self-propelled?

Baby was breech at our 20w ultrasound, but I know he's been head down at at least one point since then (my MW told me at maybe my 28 week appointment?), but I thought he still had room to move fairly easily. He may still be head down, but to me, he feels like he's all over the place one minute to the next. Is there a way to feel yourself (especially if you're not good at feeling for this sort of thing; I can barely find the top of my fundus!)?

Mary, proud to be a mama to Andrew (9/14/10) and Caroline (7/27/13) and wife to Matt.
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#11 of 103 Old 07-08-2010, 12:30 PM
 
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Mae still moves ALL over in there... but she is quickly running out of room for transverse and yesterday she was stubbornly head down (actually in perfect position for labor, really bad position for a 4d ultrasound lol)

I wouldnt start to worry until 34 weeks, and even then baby can move head down even at the last minute.

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#12 of 103 Old 07-08-2010, 01:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CraftyMcGluestick View Post
Another dumb question from the newb...

How do you know if baby is breech?

At what point do you need to start spinning that baby because it's unlikely s/he'll be self-propelled?

Baby was breech at our 20w ultrasound, but I know he's been head down at at least one point since then (my MW told me at maybe my 28 week appointment?), but I thought he still had room to move fairly easily. He may still be head down, but to me, he feels like he's all over the place one minute to the next. Is there a way to feel yourself (especially if you're not good at feeling for this sort of thing; I can barely find the top of my fundus!)?
There is a way to feel yourself, but if you're not that good at it and have never done it before, it can be near impossible to really tell.

At this point, if he feels he's all over the place, he probably is. He doesn't have to settle down until 32-34 weeks (sometimes later, but I'd start stressing around that point).

I think the tips are-- where do you feel strong kicks, as opposed to weaker grasping/punching? I know mine is head down because the strong POW belly-shakers are up above my belly button, while I get that weird finger-tip sensation down low in my belly (and poking in my cervix. ouch. ouch.). A big round thing can be a butt or a head. In my situation, I usually feel a big butt high up on one side, and get hard kicks high up on the other side (sometimes can feel a foot if he's stretching).

Get your MW to show you at your next appt. If she's experienced she can probably feel the parts and tell you pretty easily where the head is, the butt, the back, etc. Once you have someone show you, it will help you to be able to do it yourself.


Do the spinning babies things anyway though. It doesn't only help with breech, it helps with posterior babies. You do not want to give birth to a posterior baby. Trust me.

Kelly (28), in love with husband Jason (38) and our awesome babies:  Emma 4/09, and Ozzy 8/10

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#13 of 103 Old 07-08-2010, 01:23 PM
 
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Do the spinning babies things anyway though. It doesn't only help with breech, it helps with posterior babies. You do not want to give birth to a posterior baby. Trust me.
Yes, according to my MIL and a friend's wife (both non-medicated) it is AWFUL.
The spinning babies thing can also help if you're having discomfort right now due to baby's position. I know sometimes when my kiddo goes post and it gives me a bit of a backache (even though he's still tiny). A little encouragement to spin on his head like a top and I feel better.
Heh, and speak of the devil, I just felt a twinge and lo - my usually smooth belly was lumpy and bumpy - meaning his smooth back is facing my back. No wonder I'm getting sore.

Mom to two intact boys, born at home. DS1 11/07, DS2 9/10
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#14 of 103 Old 07-08-2010, 09:03 PM
 
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Ditto the spinning babies!!! My DD turned from a stubborn breech at 33 weeks thanks to spinning babies. I'm relying on it now to keep from having another posterior baby too. It's just good practice for any pregnant woman.

Also, you might consider upping your chiro to once a week or even twice a week. Or perhaps adding in accupuncture if finances allow, although I know that can be expensive...it's certainly out of our price range this pregnancy.

Emily: Homebirthin' mama to 3 boys and a girl.
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#15 of 103 Old 07-09-2010, 03:08 PM
 
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I just wanted to continue this discussion. Midwife today said that she thought she felt baby's butt down low (where head is supposed to be). Still can't quite picture that, but doesn't sound great.

I had a posterior birth last time. I spent a good deal of time freaking out and worrying about that happening again, because indeed, it was very hard labor. I am doing everything I can to avoid it happening again, such as going to chiro once every 1-2 weeks, sitting on birthing ball, hands and knees position, resting smart, and avoiding reclining. However, I am trying to take a very zen approach. If for some reason, baby doesn't turn, it will be okay. Posterior is hard, but it is doable. I did it once, so I could do it again if I have to. I am also more prepared with ideas on how to get baby to move during labor (most of them, though not all, do turn anterior before coming out). And, if for some reason baby is breech, it may be for a good reason -- like the short chord mentioned by previous poster. You can only do so much, and you certainly should do what you can, but spending a lot of time freaking and worrying is not going to help.

I also have a hard time figuring out what position baby is in. I've been trying like crazy, following the belly mapping article, trying to figure what sensation is which body part, but it is hard! Any other tips greatly appreciated! I have an anterior placenta, so that seems to make it even less obvious.

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#16 of 103 Old 07-09-2010, 04:11 PM
 
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I also have a hard time figuring out what position baby is in. I've been trying like crazy, following the belly mapping article, trying to figure what sensation is which body part, but it is hard! Any other tips greatly appreciated! I have an anterior placenta, so that seems to make it even less obvious.
I, too, have an anterior placenta and it does indeed make it harder...

They say if you can move the part and just the part moves, its head. If you can move the part and the whole baby moves, its the butt. TBH I still cant tell the difference!

So for me... its the types of moves I am feeling. If its thump thump thump its probably her feet and if its more of a swish swish its probably her head turning back and forth.

But mine is head down, back out, curled up with her feet by her butt... and I only know this because of an ultrasound we had this week and she still feels like she is in that exact same position.

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#17 of 103 Old 07-09-2010, 04:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kelly1101 View Post
Do the spinning babies things anyway though. It doesn't only help with breech, it helps with posterior babies. You do not want to give birth to a posterior baby. Trust me.
A follow-up newb question:

How do you know if baby is posterior? Is it possible to overspin your baby so that a head-down anterior baby goes the wrong way?

I think Baby must be mostly head down these days just based on movement because the hard *ka-pow* kicking is way up near my ribs and everything low is much lighter movement.

Thanks for the tips!

Mary, proud to be a mama to Andrew (9/14/10) and Caroline (7/27/13) and wife to Matt.
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#18 of 103 Old 07-09-2010, 04:44 PM
 
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A follow-up newb question:

How do you know if baby is posterior? Is it possible to overspin your baby so that a head-down anterior baby goes the wrong way?

I think Baby must be mostly head down these days just based on movement because the hard *ka-pow* kicking is way up near my ribs and everything low is much lighter movement.

Thanks for the tips!
I think spinning babies mostly focuses on positions and such that promote baby going into the correct position and if they are already in that position just coax them to stay there.

I may be wrong, but thats how I believe it works?

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#19 of 103 Old 07-09-2010, 04:48 PM
 
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DDCC to bring some "month ahead of you" BTDT advice.

DD4 has always been transverse. None of my other babies have settled into vertex til 33 weeks or so, but thats because they have been bouncing around like crazy and flipping from vertex to breech to TV and back. DD4 was low transverse (like my cervix is a hammock) at 12 weeks and every. single. appt. since. For her NT and anatomy scan the tech spent hours trying to get her out of that position.

At 24 weeks I started worrying. At 28 weeks I started freaking out and started spinning babies. At 32 weeks I started chiro. Now with 4 weeks left- baby is still stubbornly transverse. She has never moved. When I do the breech tilt I feel her shift upwards, but within minutes she is back to "head on right hip, feet on left hip, back out" position. I can run my fingers across my tummy and feel the nubs of her spine.

While I KNOW its true, it really really annoyed me to be repeatedly told "Don't worry about it yet, its still so early!!" when I really feel like I knew in my heart she wasn't/ isn't going to move. So I just wanted to come in and say that I am sorry you are worried, and I hope baby turns for you ASAP. xxx

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#20 of 103 Old 07-09-2010, 09:03 PM
 
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I, too, have an anterior placenta and it does indeed make it harder...

But mine is head down, back out, curled up with her feet by her butt... and I only know this because of an ultrasound we had this week and she still feels like she is in that exact same position.
That is awesome! Couldn't ask for a better position! Good to know it still happens even with the anterior placenta.

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#21 of 103 Old 07-09-2010, 11:26 PM
 
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I have a really hard time telling baby's position. I feel big movements/thumps up top and down low. But baby was head down 2 weeks ago and I'm guessing s/he's still head down because I feel two big things up top, seperated by some space. So Im' guessing one is the baby butting me and the other is the baby's feet...? I'm guessing what I'm feeling down below is the baby bouncing around on it's head.
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#22 of 103 Old 07-09-2010, 11:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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DDCC to bring some "month ahead of you" BTDT advice.

While I KNOW its true, it really really annoyed me to be repeatedly told "Don't worry about it yet, its still so early!!" when I really feel like I knew in my heart she wasn't/ isn't going to move. So I just wanted to come in and say that I am sorry you are worried, and I hope baby turns for you ASAP. xxx
Thanks Mama! I hope your baby turns soon! I'm feeling that little nagging alert at baby's position. Like you said, your baby has been this way all along, so has mine. While my DD was head down very early on and stayed that way, my DS flipped about all the time before he settled in head down about 34 weeks. This baby is just stuck in this transverse/breech position. Tonight he/she was pushing against my pelvic bone, and you could see this head pop up in my upper abdomen, like the baby was standing or stretching.

I will bump up chiro appts when I get back from vacation to once a week. He recommended once a week at 34 weeks or so, which I will be close to when I get back. I'll be swimming a lot up north too, and I'll look up the spinning babies things again. It's been a while since I've read them. That sucks about the cost of a c-section for you DoulaLMT! My pre/post natal and delivery coverage AT a hospital is 100%, after our $100 deductible which has already been met. A c-section would be free, where the free standing birth center will only be covered at 80% of the cost for pre/post natal care, delivery out of the hospital is not covered at all. Stupid policy if you ask me...

I'm sending lots of "head down baby" vibes to DoulaLMT, Bri and anyone else fretting over this right now! Spin baby, spin!

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#23 of 103 Old 07-10-2010, 12:00 AM
 
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Carrie, do some underwater headstands while you're on vacation! Some people swear by them.
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#24 of 103 Old 07-10-2010, 12:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Carrie, do some underwater headstands while you're on vacation! Some people swear by them.
I will! Swimming has helped move the baby down and out from under my ribs, although not turned, but made me much more comfortable. I plan on swimming lots in my giant maternity swimsuit. My DH was laughing at my floating on my back, he said I'm face, boobs, belly. My DC asked if the big belly was what made me float!

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#25 of 103 Old 07-11-2010, 09:24 PM
 
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I don't have any advice that hasn't already been given but I do want to offer a success story.

My first was persistantly breech. Breech first discovered at an ultrasound at 25 weeks and then at every single appointment I had in the third trimester. Like you I could feel him as well. I knew exactly where he was and he was comfy for sure. He moved, wiggled, kicked, so I knew he was OK, but never did he flip.

I was given the option of an external version and something told me not to do it. I still don't know why but I trust that it was how it was supposed to be. I had very patient midwives who were open to a vaginal breech birth but also knew that as I was planning a hospital birth I almost certainly wouldn't get it, but still respected my want to go into labour on my own. The OBs at the hospital I delivered at schedule breech deliveries at 38-39 weeks. I declined.

And then, just past my due date he flipped. All on his own. Flipped head down and stayed. I delivered him vaginally vertex

Babies can flip even during labour sometimes (I know it's not common, but my grandmother had one of them and I have read birth stories of others). Do what feels right to you to get babe to turn and I'll be sending head down vibes for you

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#26 of 103 Old 07-12-2010, 12:28 AM
 
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My baby is currently breech in the same position as my 2nd was at this point.. I have been seeing a chiro the entire pregnancy and after my last appt 3weeks ago baby did turn head down for a week or so before flipping back breech .. I am also ready to do something and not just wait around (30.5 weeks) saying it's early, my ds turned at 35 wks after near daily chiro appts for 2 weeks, I don't wang to do that again if I could just start going once a week earlier ...I know I didn't really say anything helpful , I'm going to talk to my chiro on Tuesday about a plan..
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#27 of 103 Old 07-21-2010, 12:31 PM
 
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How is baby doing now?

I am starting to have breech worries myself. At 31 weeks, baby seems to have flipped to breech about 3 days ago & does not seem to move much. I get all the movement down low now. I felt what I thought was a knee up on the top of the uterus, but now upon further investigation I'm pretty sure it's a head (it does not move out of the way when I palpate, and if I open my hands up more & wiggle back & forth it definitely bobs like a head (just did it and response was a kick down low )

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#28 of 103 Old 07-21-2010, 06:24 PM
 
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On wednesday baby was head first on the ultrasound. Friday morning the little booger flipped and is breech and has been ever sense.

Im 33 weeks and running out of time to "try" to get him to flip back. I heard swinging can help. But I'd like more info on the spinning baby... never heard of it.

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#29 of 103 Old 07-21-2010, 09:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by porcelina View Post
How is baby doing now?
Still breech! I posted a long explanation on the positions thread, but I'll repeat it because I'm stressing! So, baby is, I think, incomplete frank breech with one leg up and one down. My midwife grabbed a butt and a leg down low yesterday. She gave me their sheet of things to do, breech tilt, inversion on a ironing board, homeopathic pustilla, chiropractic care, etc. And we talked about options if baby stays this way, first of all she encouraged me not to fret too much that there is time and room for baby to flip, but she did agree that the persistent position makes it a little more alarming. Plus, I have an anterior placenta which increases the likelihood of mal-positioning and and makes a version more complicated.

So- she said I could: 1) Consult with their back-up OB (who had home births herself, she's awesome) about a version in a hospital setting. 2) Work with a DEM they know who does versions out of the hospital. 3) Do nothing and wait. And then if baby does NOT turn I could be 1) be considered as a candidate for vaginal breech birth, if baby is frank breech, at the birth center 2) consider a vaginal breech home birth with a DEM who is very experienced 3) work with an OB (NOT their backup) who will consider breech birth in the hospital 4) schedule a section or 5) don't schedule and see how baby is positioned when I go into labor.

What surprised me the most was that because of my anterior placenta, if I'm considering a hospital version she encouraged me to consider making an appointment with their OB after my 34 week appt. with them, and then the version would take place at 35 to 36 weeks, before baby is bigger. I'm concerned, of course, about the emergency c-section risk following a version with a 35 weeker! Oh, and BTW, that's 2 1/2 weeks away! Yikes!

So, anyway, that's the saga! Sorry to hear you both have breech babes too, hoping your little ones flip back over soon!

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#30 of 103 Old 07-21-2010, 10:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ilovemyavery View Post
Still breech! I posted a long explanation on the positions thread, but I'll repeat it because I'm stressing! So, baby is, I think, incomplete frank breech with one leg up and one down. My midwife grabbed a butt and a leg down low yesterday. She gave me their sheet of things to do, breech tilt, inversion on a ironing board, homeopathic pustilla, chiropractic care, etc. And we talked about options if baby stays this way, first of all she encouraged me not to fret too much that there is time and room for baby to flip, but she did agree that the persistent position makes it a little more alarming. Plus, I have an anterior placenta which increases the likelihood of mal-positioning and and makes a version more complicated.

So- she said I could: 1) Consult with their back-up OB (who had home births herself, she's awesome) about a version in a hospital setting. 2) Work with a DEM they know who does versions out of the hospital. 3) Do nothing and wait. And then if baby does NOT turn I could be 1) be considered as a candidate for vaginal breech birth, if baby is frank breech, at the birth center 2) consider a vaginal breech home birth with a DEM who is very experienced 3) work with an OB (NOT their backup) who will consider breech birth in the hospital 4) schedule a section or 5) don't schedule and see how baby is positioned when I go into labor.

What surprised me the most was that because of my anterior placenta, if I'm considering a hospital version she encouraged me to consider making an appointment with their OB after my 34 week appt. with them, and then the version would take place at 35 to 36 weeks, before baby is bigger. I'm concerned, of course, about the emergency c-section risk following a version with a 35 weeker! Oh, and BTW, that's 2 1/2 weeks away! Yikes!

So, anyway, that's the saga! Sorry to hear you both have breech babes too, hoping your little ones flip back over soon!
Wow, so they are willing to deliver at the birth center, but only if frank breech, and the current position would not qualify? I guess that's better than most places -- I think at my birth center if it's breech, you can get the version, but there is no chance for vaginal breech birth (I'm sure for insurance reasons). Yikes, and didn't realize the additional complication with anterior placenta!

Turn, little one, turn!!

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