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#1 of 28 Old 11-06-2010, 11:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Bottlefeeding my baby is a messy pita and he fusses/cries pretty much the whole time.

This sucks. My first had a hard time with nursing. This one is having a harder time. I want to go bang my head against a wall.

B, happily married to M. Mother to two boys: B (3/08) and A (9/10)
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#2 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 12:46 AM
 
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Trying to live a simple life in a messy house in a complicated world with : DH, DD (b. 07/07), DS (b. 02/09), and DD (b. 10/10)
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#3 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 03:01 AM
 
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, I'm so sorry, that sounds completely stressful. Is it a tongue tie issue?

Mama to Nell (11/15/06) and Maggie (10/9/10) . AFTER 2.5 YEARS, I AM AN AUNTIE!!! joy.gifHOORAY TEAR78 and welcome Anika and Brand New Baby Boy!!!!  Circumcision: the more you know, the worse it is; please leave the decision up to your son!

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#4 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 09:38 AM
 
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I'm sorry Have you gotten in touch with your local LLL? Check your local WIC, too, they might have an IBCLC on staff (ours does!)
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#5 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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It's tongue-tie related.

I've seen an IBCLC and am in touch with her frequently. She says I just have to be patient and wait at this point. My baby is 5.5 weeks old. HOW LONG DO I HAVE TO WAIT?

We've had the tongue-tie released and the latch is getting worse.

I've been to LLL meetings - I'm friends with all the leaders in town.

I've talked to other moms with tongue-tied babies. No one has had this problem.

Right now I'm trying to make it through until Thursday when we have an appointment with a speech therapist specializing in this sort of thing.

I'm exhausted. My head and heart are so confused.

I'm beyond stressed.

My whole family is suffering and I really don't know how much longer I can persevere at this.

The surgery was supposed to make things better. 2 weeks later and my baby is clicking like crazy and hurting me worse than before the surgery.

I'm kind of in disbelief. I feel like I must be crazy. No way does releasing tongue-tie make breastfeeding worse, right? So I must be insane. Even though everyone hears the clicks, I feel like I must be doing something because surely this doesn't happen???

My baby is screaming right now (my husband has him and there is expressed milk and pacifiers in the house). I don't want to nurse him. I don't want to get out of bed. I want to sleep, but I can't without him nuzzled next to me. And I hate pumping. I loathe that pump.

I should be snuggled up with my baby.

B, happily married to M. Mother to two boys: B (3/08) and A (9/10)
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#6 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 10:48 AM
 
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Have you tried emailing Dr. Jack Newman? I really hope this resolves for you.

This Mommy and Military Daddy are loving their son.
DS born Dec 2010 Pregnant with #2, having another !
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#7 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WifeofAnt View Post

Have you tried emailing Dr. Jack Newman? I really hope this resolves for you.
I'm too tired, etc right now to think completely straight - what is his email? Does he have expertise in this particular area (tongue tie and whatnot). I know he's a breastfeeding researcher - just wondering if he might be more likely to be helpful than other people I've been in touch with.

And how reachable is he?

B, happily married to M. Mother to two boys: B (3/08) and A (9/10)
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#8 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 11:35 AM
 
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Sorry to pop into ya'll's DDC. My son was tongue-tied, and the frenotomy did NOT resolve our issues. I do think it somewhat improved his milk transfer ability, but it did not resolve pain or the amount of time he spent nursing or anything along those lines.

As I would later figure out later, he was "profoundly tongue-tied." As in, both a frontal and posterior tie. Only the front was released, so he was still tongue-tied. He also had/has bubble palate, so that further complicated the issue.

Definitely see an IBCLC. Maybe a pediatric ENT or oral surgeon.
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#9 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 11:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILovePie View Post
I'm too tired, etc right now to think completely straight - what is his email? Does he have expertise in this particular area (tongue tie and whatnot). I know he's a breastfeeding researcher - just wondering if he might be more likely to be helpful than other people I've been in touch with.

And how reachable is he?
He runs a breastfeeding clinic in Canada, its all he does. From what I've heard he's pretty dang good at what he does too. He has a website here that includes videos and other resources.

This is their Contact Us page. They get quite a few emails but I've heard they're still decent at getting back within a day or two. They dont' have an email listed (probably to avoid spam) but if you scroll down they have an email form.

This Mommy and Military Daddy are loving their son.
DS born Dec 2010 Pregnant with #2, having another !
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#10 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Sorry to pop into ya'll's DDC. My son was tongue-tied, and the frenotomy did NOT resolve our issues. I do think it somewhat improved his milk transfer ability, but it did not resolve pain or the amount of time he spent nursing or anything along those lines.

As I would later figure out later, he was "profoundly tongue-tied." As in, both a frontal and posterior tie. Only the front was released, so he was still tongue-tied. He also had/has bubble palate, so that further complicated the issue.

Definitely see an IBCLC. Maybe a pediatric ENT or oral surgeon.
My son's was an "unusual" tongue-tie, according to the ENT. It was apparently further back than is usual- it was behind the ducts that feed into his mouth?

I will see the IBCLC again and see if there are any other specialists to consult. I understand waiting- that he needs to relearn to use his tongue- but it got better and then much worse? This doesn't seem like something that is going to resolve itself...

B, happily married to M. Mother to two boys: B (3/08) and A (9/10)
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#11 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by WifeofAnt View Post
He runs a breastfeeding clinic in Canada, its all he does. From what I've heard he's pretty dang good at what he does too. He has a website here that includes videos and other resources.

This is their Contact Us page. They get quite a few emails but I've heard they're still decent at getting back within a day or two. They dont' have an email listed (probably to avoid spam) but if you scroll down they have an email form.
I emailed. Hopefully they'll have some advice.

B, happily married to M. Mother to two boys: B (3/08) and A (9/10)
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#12 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 01:51 PM
 
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Have you considered finding a professional(often a chiropractor) that does craniosachral therapy? A lot of people have luck with that. There's also exercises you can do to help your child get more mobility in their tongue.

I will say this... Our issues never resolved. Nursing has always hurt. It was always very time consuming. But, I think it was good for him, and not just because of the breastmilk. I think being forced to stretch his tongue to nurse helped him develop more mobility in his tongue than he would have had we moved to bottles. He speaks normally for his age, which is often not the case with tongue-tied children. He has never had a problem with food, again, often not the case with tongue-tied children. He doesn't have dental issues, again, often the case with tongue-tied children.
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#13 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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He's had several sessions of CST. The first was when he was 2 days old and immediately resolved some issues that I think were caused by his very very fast birth. The last was the day after his surgery.

I may do another session at some point, but we've already spent hundreds of dollars on it.

How long did you nurse your son? I'm starting to think long term about how I'm going to manage and what my goals are.

B, happily married to M. Mother to two boys: B (3/08) and A (9/10)
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#14 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Heard back from Dr. Newman already (very impressed!). He gave me lots and LOTS of information and books I can read and videos I can watch.

But the main thing that stood out was that the tongue can actually re-attach.

DS had this surgery under general anesthesia. If he has to have it released again, we're going to drive 4 hours each way to see a doctor who can do it with him awake. We should have gone there the first time, in hindsight, because it would have been done a lot sooner.

We'd have to pay out of pocket, whereas the first surgery was covered by insurance.

I have returned Dr. Newman's email asking how quickly re-attachment can occur. If it can really happen in 1-2 weeks, it would explain how things got better and then worse. I can have him re-evaluated in the next couple of days.

B, happily married to M. Mother to two boys: B (3/08) and A (9/10)
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#15 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 03:02 PM
 
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Oh mama, I'm sorry That's so much crap to deal with. It sounds like you're on top of it and do everything you can to make it work. I'm glad you were able to get in touch with Dr. Newman, he's fantastic. Good luck
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#16 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 03:05 PM
 
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Sorry you are have such a difficult time. Hope it gets better.

As for reattachment....when my daughter was 2.5 she bit her tongue and severed it.....within 4-5 days it had reattached.
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#17 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I need to have a little woe is me moment:

HOW IN THE HELL DID FRENOTOMY SCREW UP BREASTFEEDING EVEN MORE WITH BOTH MY KIDS???

WHAT ARE THE ODDS THAT I'D HAVE TWO TONGUE-TIED BABIES AND THEN HAVE FRENOTOMY MAKE BOTH OF THEM WORSE?

I feel like a freak of nature. Ironically, there was a breastfeeding case study written on my first son and me, and a follow-up will be written about my baby and me if I can manage to breastfeed him long enough. The case study has nothing to do with tongue-tie, but has to do with my chronic illness (nothing in the literature on mothers exclusively breastfeeding with my illness/sympoms - it was assumed at first that I would have to supplement because my milk wouldn't be adequate in protein). So I struggled to nurse my first while simultaneously being unsure my milk would even sustain him without supplementing.

Seriously, HOW DOES ONE COME BY THIS SORT OF LUCK???

B, happily married to M. Mother to two boys: B (3/08) and A (9/10)
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#18 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 06:02 PM
 
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When I felt like I tried every avenue, I discovered the Breastfeeding Doctor http://www.thebreastfeedingdoctor.com/ (a great recommendation from my primary care doctor) and since she was local to me I thought I'd make an appointment-- however, with one phone consultation she gave me advice that saved my BFing relationship. I had talked to numerous IBCLCs, doctors who know a lot about nursing, even Dr Newman, and no one had the exact spot on advice she did!

My question was regarding an ongoing infection, but I've heard she's great for other issues.
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#19 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 09:46 PM
 
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I'm sorry you're having a hard time. I think I remember that tongue-tie can have a genetic component. Both my boys had it. And both my boys and my DH have the bubble palate, so some of these things do carry on.

I hope you can get at least some of the issues resolved soon. I'm surprised your son's frenotomy was done under anesthesia. Mine was done in office, nothing but the snip.
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#20 of 28 Old 11-07-2010, 10:45 PM
 
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DDDC -- I'm so sorry you're going through this! My DS was also tongue tied, and we went through crazy stuff to try to get it resolved (which we didn't, but we're still BF). The only advice I have is to fight to get in to see doctors as soon as possible -- call, call, email, and emphasize that getting this taken care of fast makes all the difference. They'll want to give you an appointment in 3 weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks -- do all you can to be seen faster.

Here's our story: http://floridatonguetie.blogspot.com/

Jen, former sys admin and current geek , wife to DH , SAHM and Montessori homeschool teacher to DD "Nugget" (05/07) and new arrival DS "Sprout" (03/31/10)
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#21 of 28 Old 11-10-2010, 06:08 AM
 
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I think I missed that question, OP. Sorry. 

 

My son is almost 4 years old now and he's still nursing. It still hurts, always has. I just.... learned to grin and bear it, I suppose. I can't say it's been a pleasant experience. I've definitely never loved nursing, but I love that it's something I was able to do for him, despite our issues. 

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#22 of 28 Old 11-10-2010, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I saw a former IBCLC and a current one yesterday.

 

The tongue-tie was not completely resolved.  It was done under general anesthesia and the nurse who woke him up by snuggling him was such a heavy smoker that my 3-week-old baby smelled like cigarettes in addition to anesthesia...

 

So I couldn't do that crap again.

 

We called and got an appointment with a pediatric dentist in Chicago (closest doc we are able to find who does the procedure and WITHOUT general!!).  Our appointment is tomorrow.  We drove up here (took over 5 hours and we stopped 4.5 times...) today.  Staying in a hotel.  Taking our 2.5-year-old to see the SUE (T-Rex) exhibit at the Field Museum in the morning, and then Anders will have his frenulum clipped.  Again. 

 

I have been so scatterbrained, yet so focused on getting this resolved ASAP.  We had a postpartum doula come last night to get me packed despite my haze so I could sleep.  And then, of course, I COULDN'T SLEEP!

 

If this doesn't make it better, I don't know what I'll do.

 

Pain with nursing has become so severe that I've gotten to the point of not wanting to feed the baby.  I pumped for a few days and it is better, but I certainly can't go on nursing with a latch like this.

 

I brought my pump and am mentally prepared (sort of ) to pump for him if he stops latching or something after the procedure.

 

Please send us whatever vibes and prayers you feel are appropriate!


B, happily married to M. Mother to two boys: B (3/08) and A (9/10)
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#23 of 28 Old 11-10-2010, 06:43 PM
 
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Major vibes coming your way! I really hope this works for you guys. big hugs


Mama to DD Feb '08 (9lbs), DS Oct '10 (10lbs) hbac.gif, DD Jan '13 hbac.gif

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#24 of 28 Old 11-12-2010, 04:11 PM
 
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No words of advice, but I'm sorry you are going through this.


Wife, mom to DS (4), DD (2) and baby heart 2.7.13

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#25 of 28 Old 11-12-2010, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Procedure was done.  If anyone ever needs a recommendation for tongue-tie release in the Chicago area, this pediatric dentist is AWESOME.

 

He did the procedure with a laser.  Anders was actually laying on me and I held his hands and talked in his ear the whole time.

 

Nursing is going better so far.  Cautiously optimistic that we're over the last hurdle.

 

Also, seeing the ENT for a follow-up on Tuesday...the ENT who insists on doing this procedure under general because he can "better visualize the frenulum and move the tongue all around to make sure he got it all" and didn't get it all.  I figured I'd tell him what happened, potentially show him the PICTURE the dentist took of the remaining frenulum, and have him do the follow-up from the second procedure since I'm not going back up to Chicago.

 

We got back after midnight last night.  Took us 6 hours to get home from Chicago.  I'm exhausted!


B, happily married to M. Mother to two boys: B (3/08) and A (9/10)
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#26 of 28 Old 11-13-2010, 04:40 AM
 
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Yay!!!! That sounds great! 

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#27 of 28 Old 11-13-2010, 06:39 AM
 
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I'm so glad to hear nursing is going better so far!  I really hope that fixes the issue and you can move on to an easy, happy nursing relationship!

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#28 of 28 Old 11-13-2010, 06:43 AM
 
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DDCC again - Yay! Its so awesome to hear things are getting better for you.


This Mommy and Military Daddy are loving their son.
DS born Dec 2010 Pregnant with #2, having another !
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