11+3, no baby seen with U/S?? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 44 Old 05-14-2010, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So today I had a midwife's appointment. To make a long story short, she couldn't find the heartbeat with the Doppler, looked for about 10 minutes and nothing. So we moved to the U/S and... there was nothing. Not that there was no heartbeat - there was nothing to be seen. I don't know what to think; she said that at 11 weeks it's not guaranteed to see anything, especially if the baby is hiding in the back, and a good sign was that the uterus was open instead of just being a slit if I wasn't pregnant. And that at this age sometimes the vaginal U/S works better. But I had a U/S at 9 weeks with DS and could see him just fine? I don't have much extra "padding" either. It wasn't like there was a baby but no heartbeat, there was just... nothing there.

So now I wait three weeks to see if there's any change. Ugh. If I've been this sick and miserable for weeks now AND there's no baby in there? I'm gonna call myself crazy and give up, seriously. This is gonna be a LONG three weeks.

Are there different levels of U/S machines? The one in her office definitely didn't seem as high-tech or modern as the ones I'm used to seeing in OB offices but is that a factor or do they all essentially do the same thing? I'm trying to figure out why there would be nothing there. I guess it could be a missed miscarriage or something, blighted ovum maybe, but... well, I'm trying not to panic overly.


mama of DS(3) & DD(2)
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#2 of 44 Old 05-14-2010, 10:02 PM
 
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I am so sorry you are going through this. What an aweful appointment.
So she didn't do a vaginal ultrasound? Personally if she didn't do a vaginal ultrasound I would request on right away. There is no way I could wait 3 weeks after being told she couldn't see anything. I would need more of an answer then that. That is just my personal opinion though. Each person handles these situations differently.
I do know that there are differences in ultrasound machines with some being better then others.

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#3 of 44 Old 05-14-2010, 10:04 PM
 
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Hang in there. How nerve-wracking! You could request an u/s at the hospital. There are different types of u/s machines and maybe they can get a better picture.
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#4 of 44 Old 05-14-2010, 10:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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She didn't have a vaginal U/S - she's a homebirth midwife so her office is in her home and I guess it's not super-inclusive.

How do you get one at the hospital? I don't have maternity coverage on my insurance so I don't know how much those cost or how you go about getting one.

mama of DS(3) & DD(2)
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#5 of 44 Old 05-14-2010, 10:56 PM
 
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An retroverted uterus can make it harder to find the baby, and not all u/s machines are created equal. I think I'd be pushing for a trans-vaginal u/s.

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#6 of 44 Old 05-14-2010, 11:11 PM
 
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At the hospital, you'd have to go through the ER and tell them your issue, or make one up (spotting, cramping, etc).

Idk how that would end up being billed (and I'm not a big advocate for lying about symptoms OR using the ER for non emergent issues), so you might be better off getting a script from a practitioner--be it your MW, family MD, etc--for a transvaginal u/s at a radiology place. Even then you're looking at hundreds of dollars if insurance wont cover it. Maybe if they worded the order "trans vag u/s to rule out XYZ" (such as fibroids, enlarged uterus, etc) instead of a clear diagnosis of pregnancy, it would be covered?

Idk mama, but I sure as heck wouldn't wanna wait 3 weeks. Why cant she re-sono you next week? By 12+wks there should definitely be SOMETHING visible on u/s.

Best wishes.

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#7 of 44 Old 05-15-2010, 12:25 AM
 
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Oh, mama, how rotten. I agree, there are varying degrees of u/s machines. I also agree that I'd have a VERY hard time waiting that long. I would try CookieMonster's idea of seeing another practitioner for a referral.

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#8 of 44 Old 05-15-2010, 12:42 AM
 
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So sorry you are having to go through this. My father is a radiologists and sees a ton of ultrasounds and you should definitely be able to see the baby by now. I think 1. the machine was broken and displayed some sort of blank screen..or possibly was frozen? 2. midwife wasn't very trained in the field of ultrasounds, 3. tilted uterus. I would definitely go to a doctors office to get things checked out using better technology. If you haven't had any signs of miscarriage and you aren't taking anything that would prevent one, more than likely, everything is just fine. For peace of mind, tell a doctor your situation and go get another ultrasound for assurance. Keep us updated.

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#9 of 44 Old 05-15-2010, 01:54 AM
 
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Your midwife should be able to refer you to get an ultrsound elsewhere. Mine did and, while I do have insurance, I haven't met my deductible so I still pay for it all out of pocket. I just got the bll and it was about $200.

If nothing else, I'd ask to come in sooner than 3 weeks to have her check again.

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#10 of 44 Old 05-15-2010, 07:11 AM
 
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If maternity care isn't covered by insurance, then does that mean you have to pay for the birth as well? And anything else that might come up? Would they cover the cost of the scan to check for downs?
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#11 of 44 Old 05-15-2010, 10:29 AM
 
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I would get a second opinion with a vaginal ultrasound.

I went in for an 11+1 week check up in the past and the midwife couldn't find anything with her ultrasound and she immediately referred me to an office where I could get a 'better' vaginal ultrasound the same day.

If getting access and cost is an issue nothing is going to change with or without another ultrasound. It will just keep you from waiting and worrying.

Melissa- mom to a boy 9/06 and a new boy 11/10 and married to my best friend 7/02
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#12 of 44 Old 05-15-2010, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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If maternity care isn't covered by insurance, then does that mean you have to pay for the birth as well? And anything else that might come up? Would they cover the cost of the scan to check for downs?
Yeah, that's what it means. =/ Well, the homebirth midwife wouldn't be covered no matter what. In the case of a hospital transfer (or risking out) I could theoretically go on Medicaid as with the pregnancy we qualify (income limits are higher). I should probably go about getting that but it would take a while, and the Medicaid providers in this area are dreadful (they only see the patients at one clinic where they lump everyone together, I don't think the regular OB offices even see Medicaid patients).

I guess the best case scenario is to wait til Monday and then see if there's any clinics in the area that could do a Medicaid pending scan. Cos dude if this is a blighted ovum I am so done, I have been a complete wreck of a person and a mother due to morning sickness for weeks now, if there's no baby at the end of the tunnel (no pun intended) then seriously I'm not happy with life.

mama of DS(3) & DD(2)
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#13 of 44 Old 05-15-2010, 11:28 AM
 
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I'm not sure I have anything to contribute that hasn't already been said, but I'm sending you s and good thoughts, and I hope that you can find a way to get the information you need.
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#14 of 44 Old 05-15-2010, 01:08 PM
 
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Maybe reading this will give you some hope, mama: http://www.squidoo.com/tilteduterus. I have been dealing with a retroverted uterus myself with this pregnancy, and it's a whole new experience to go through.

I also just want to point out that imho it is irresponsible for a midwife without the proper extensive training to have an ultrasound machine in her home office. Ultrasounds should not be used for entertainment purposes.
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#15 of 44 Old 05-15-2010, 01:22 PM
 
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I also just want to point out that imho it is irresponsible for a midwife without the proper extensive training to have an ultrasound machine in her home office. Ultrasounds should not be used for entertainment purposes.
While I agree 100% with your last sentance, I'm just wondering where the OP said the mw wasn't trained or that the machine was in her "home office" (I may have missed where she mentioned those things).

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#16 of 44 Old 05-15-2010, 01:32 PM
 
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hugs Honey-Lilac, I hope everything turns out well. I hate that it is so hard for you to get an u/s!

Sending good vibes to you.

Happy mama to my four girls S 8.15.02 , L 04.25.06 (gone at 36 weeks ) and L 3.10.07.And another rainbow! Baby C has arrived 10.26.10!
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#17 of 44 Old 05-15-2010, 01:38 PM
 
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Yeah, that's what it means. =/ Well, the homebirth midwife wouldn't be covered no matter what. In the case of a hospital transfer (or risking out) I could theoretically go on Medicaid as with the pregnancy we qualify (income limits are higher). I should probably go about getting that but it would take a while, and the Medicaid providers in this area are dreadful (they only see the patients at one clinic where they lump everyone together, I don't think the regular OB offices even see Medicaid patients).

I guess the best case scenario is to wait til Monday and then see if there's any clinics in the area that could do a Medicaid pending scan. Cos dude if this is a blighted ovum I am so done, I have been a complete wreck of a person and a mother due to morning sickness for weeks now, if there's no baby at the end of the tunnel (no pun intended) then seriously I'm not happy with life.
Have you had any bleeding or spotting, honey??? If it's a blighted ovum, I'm fairly certain that by now you would have had some spotting...

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#18 of 44 Old 05-15-2010, 01:45 PM
 
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She didn't have a vaginal U/S - she's a homebirth midwife so her office is in her home and I guess it's not super-inclusive.
And I'm just guessing that somone who doesn't have the proper equipment also does not care about having the proper training. I've known midwives before who buy old u/s machines from medical equipment auctions just to have them for entertainment purposes--even though the older machines often expose the baby to higher ultrasound frequencies.
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#19 of 44 Old 05-15-2010, 05:11 PM
 
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Honey-lilac, I'm so sorry. I would do whatever it takes to get to the bottom of this. Although extremely rare, a molar pregnancy can cause severe N/V and needs proper medical care to be diagnosed and treated. I'm sorry to bring this up, because I don't want to scare you, but I don't know why your mw just let that go.

Julie, wife to DH , mom of DD 8/99 and DS 1/09 , and #3 due 11/14/10
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#20 of 44 Old 05-15-2010, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I haven't had any bleeding, spotting, cramping, nothing. The midwife said my uterus seemed a little small for my dates but that's been the case with every pregnancy so far; and it wasn't really significantly smaller, just slightly so.

I didn't even think about the U/S machine's age being cause of more radiation. D'oh. That's not cool. But FWIW we didn't use it for "recreational purposes" - it's cos she didn't find the heartbeat with the Doppler. I mean maybe that's considered recreational; I'm not sure. She doesn't routinely do U/S's as far as I know. I'm pretty sure most midwives or OB's would also refer to an U/S in case of no heartbeat detected. Maybe not all would, esp. as how at 11 weeks there's not always a heartbeat I've heard, but probably quite a few practitioners would want to be on the safe side and check. I know I had early U/S with my other pregnancies. Granted, I'm picky about a lot of things with pregnancies but not really about U/S - so I didn't really fight that overly. But I was not planning on getting any U/S this pregnancy unless there was an issue. And the no heartbeat thing was a borderline issue. I could have gone without it I guess but it would have been reassuring to see a healthy babe on the U/S screen. Esp. with how sick I've been, it would have been definitely some hope. Now it's just worse though to wait.

I know at this stage I'm not supposed to be feeling much movement but I think I already was with DD; there's a few instances where I thought this one moved but I can't be sure and now all day long I'm just trying to see if I can feel anything. Here I was saying just a little while ago that I don't like baby movements but now I'd give anyone for a real for-sure kick. But I keep not feeling anything, which could be normal or could not be, and just urgh.

ETA: I don't know if I have a retroverted uterus. I don't have pain with sex or trouble with tampons but I do have diarrhea when I get my period. (Sorry if that's TMI.) That's the only thing I could find as to signs that you MIGHT have a retroverted uterus. Would it still matter at 11 weeks, though? I've had no problems with abdominal U/S working in past pregnancies, with DS I know there was a clear as day photo we took at 9 weeks. Can a uterus be "regular" one pregnancy and retrovert for a later one?

mama of DS(3) & DD(2)
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#21 of 44 Old 05-15-2010, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Also, I'm trying to look it up but can't find anything yet, does anyone know if a molar pregnancy ever has a gestational sack? I had an U/S at 4 weeks and 3 days and there was a sack there, it was too early to see anything else though.

mama of DS(3) & DD(2)
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#22 of 44 Old 05-15-2010, 09:54 PM
 
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I don't know anything about molar pregnancies or retroverted uterus. But I've had two miscarriages. One was a blighted ovum detected via trans-vag u/s at 8 weeks - a definite sack, no baby. Repeat u/s three days later showed the sack collapsing. i don't remember any spotting, and had the m/c induced. Second was an embryo that stopped development at 7w3d, detected at 10w5d via trans-vag u/s which I got because of intermittent spotting. You could clearly see the "baby", a little lump inside the uterus (which had not gotten as large as it should have by 10w5d).

I think it would be very weird to see a pregnant looking uterus and no sign of baby or anything. If you had a sack at 4w3d, I'd think you'd still see the sack or would have had spotting or cramping by now. This is surely a puzzle, and I do hope you can find a way to get an u/s with better equipment soon.

Karen love.gif James -- DS drum.gif (2/07) DD baby.gif (11/05/10) angel1.gif (9/05) (10/09)
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#23 of 44 Old 05-16-2010, 09:22 AM
 
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Just to agree that the U/S probably costs about $200-250. I wouldn't go to the ER if you don't have coverage. That will cost you in the $900s, unless you can haggle with a charity hospital. Check to see if your insurance covers "complications due to pregnancy." They may cover a limited u/s of some kind.

I'm in the same boat of no maternity insurance. It's so much fun, isn't it.
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#24 of 44 Old 05-16-2010, 01:32 PM
 
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(((hugs))) and peaceful, calming thoughts. I'm sorry you are going through this. I hope you get some answers soon. I'm right there with you in not having maternity coverage. I'd have a hard time justifying those expenses, too, when 'wait' works just as well, even though it's hard to do.

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#25 of 44 Old 05-16-2010, 11:15 PM
 
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TXmidwife--thanks. Pregnancy brain, missed that.

Honey, a molar pregnancy would more than likely show up on a u/s. It;d look bloobly, or like a cluster of pearls/grapes. Did your MW see something suspicious, or just nothing at all? Molar Pregnancy Photo Another Last one (note, these are sono pics and are not graphic)

I'll share this with you for comparisson, not because I necessarily think you are going through the same thing. I had a blighted ovum which I (guess I) passed at 10 weeks. We're assuming it was a blighted ovum because an early sono showed a sac, and then I was bleeding and passing small clots, but never passed any "products of conception"--and believe me, I was looking. By the time I got to the hospital, there was nothing but some free blood in my uterus. i've miscarried before, so I knew what to look for, and it wasn't there with this one. Most blighted ovums pass in the 1st trimester, and you're almost in your 2nd, if that helps at all.

Best Wishes, and please keep us updated.

Kelly, mama (12yoDS), doula, RN, and writer.
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#26 of 44 Old 05-17-2010, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I got another U/S, a good one this time. They confirmed that there was everything in there, healthy and great - but no baby or fetal parts. Just an empty sac. I'm going to lose my mind, seriously. Anyway, thanks for all the support, hoping for a great pregnancy journey for you gals. I think I'll be taking a break from MDC for a while to grieve.

mama of DS(3) & DD(2)
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#27 of 44 Old 05-17-2010, 10:23 AM
 
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Honey-Lilac, I'm so sorry. What a huge disappointment, especially after you've been so sick! Hoping you heal quickly, body and spirit.

Julie, wife to DH , mom of DD 8/99 and DS 1/09 , and #3 due 11/14/10
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#28 of 44 Old 05-17-2010, 10:32 AM
 
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thinking about you!
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#29 of 44 Old 05-17-2010, 10:32 AM
 
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Honey. I've been through this twice. It is so hard. I hope you are able to grieve the way you need to.

Karen love.gif James -- DS drum.gif (2/07) DD baby.gif (11/05/10) angel1.gif (9/05) (10/09)
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#30 of 44 Old 05-17-2010, 10:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honey-lilac View Post
Also, I'm trying to look it up but can't find anything yet, does anyone know if a molar pregnancy ever has a gestational sack? I had an U/S at 4 weeks and 3 days and there was a sack there, it was too early to see anything else though.
Just jumping in here to say I had a molar pregnancy and it was clearly visible via transvaginal ultrasound at 8 weeks. I think you'd be able to tell, especially if it were a complete molar pregnancy, which would mean your uterus was filled with cystic tissue. Try not to worry about that.

Fiction writer by training, writer/editor of anything anyone will hire me for by trade. Me + D=my girls E (4/2011) and little N, 1/2014.

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