What "forbidden" behaviors have you indulged in/are you comfortable with? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I ask because I am seriously tempted to have sushi tonight, and I think I will. Some friends invited me out and I can never get DH to go w/me because he's not a fan of Japanese food. And I know after the baby's born the opportunities to go out for good sushi with friends will be few and far between. Once can't hurt, right? 

 

I've also broken the deli meats taboo several times and had a runny egg yesterday. I've started drinking coffee almost every day (not a ton at a time, though) and have been taking sips of my husband's beer & wine all along. In the second trimester, I've had the occasional bit (half glass or so) of beer/wine. Still well below that British study's safe level of 2 drinks/week. I want a glass of wine on my birthday in January. 

 

I can see myself justifying all this as I write--I feel defensive! I continue to really struggle with the boundaries between my independence/autonomy, my baby's well being, my fears/guilt, and my profound resentment at the idea the woman as a slave to her baby/policing women's behavior and bodies at the expense of her own independence. Where is the line between safety and paranoia? Autonomy and selfishness?

 

What do you all think? Anyone else struggling with these questions? 


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#2 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 07:53 AM
 
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This is a great thread, Blanca. The questions you raise are much deeper than avoiding certain foods. There is a weird paternalistic bent in our culture around monitoring pregnant women's behavior for the sake of the baby. Sometimes I don't feel trusted as a woman to make the best decisions for the entity I love most in the world, my tiny baby. DH and I were discussing the medicalization of birth as an extension of this. That somehow the very natural act of giving birth had to be robbed from women and put in the hands of all-knowing "experts" in the last century.

 

I started drinking about a cup of coffee a day after the first trimester. I ate blue cheese because it was haunting me a couple weeks ago. And I had 3 sips of wine last night and felt the effect-just the tingly feeling in my extremities. I can't imagine if I drank a whole glass!!! My family is going wine-tasting for Thanksgiving, and I think I should probably taste and spit considering my low tolerance smile.gif.

 

Your choices are up to you, and it sounds like you are empowered enough to make the best one in regards to an evening out with friends and sushi! And you know pregnant women in Japan have eaten sushi for centuries!

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#3 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 07:55 AM
 
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You sound just like me. Relax. I mean, I'm not saying "Relax because if I'm doing it then it must be good for you!" but you sound like you are taking to the time to educate yourself and are evaluating what risks are and are not acceptable to you.

 

I eat my eggs with a little "run" to them--I know where they come from. I have had sushi once. Lordy I could go for that again! It came from a restaurant I trust. I have had sips of this and that, and like you, nothing even approaching 2 glasses a week. Lunchmeats, yes, but I do try to be careful which brand I buy and I don't let it sit out. Drinking a cup of coffee as I type--one a day, if I can even get that down.

 

This baby has so limited my diet, that I do like to treat myself where I can within limits.

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#4 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 08:18 AM
 
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Most all of the general ones. smile.gif

 

I don't worry about food choices or a glass of wine(this does not mean I am an alcoholic, btw)... I have a healthy immune system, eat a local/homegrown/organic diet and exercise regularly. smile.gif I always eat sushi at least a few times a year, and if it happens during pregnancy, so be it. I have never heeded any of the eggs/dairy/cheese stuff.

 

I feel humans wouldn't have made it to this day and age if we weren't pretty resilient. Of course, so much of what you should pay attention to during pregnancy depends on your genetics, general state of health and personal comfort level, but the only way I've found peace with pregnancy and parenting is to throw caution to the wind and just trust my instincts.

 

You can take my words with a big grain of salt... I refuse to be a worrier. smile.gif


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#5 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 08:44 AM
 
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Considering your question as I sit here eating my Brie on crackers wink1.gif But seriously, I think there's a fine line between being cautious and being paranoid. I know moms in each category. I KNOW there are some things I'm paranoid about, but for the most part I think simply being cautious is enough. My philosophy is to be wary of the places I eat, and just don't eat the forbidden fruits too often. Sure, there are some things you have to sacrifice- football season is definitely not as fun without all the beer ! But the studies always seem to change one way or the other. What's good for you today, is going to be a no-no in 10 years. I always cringe at the stuff I ate and drank when I was pregnant with DS 6 years ago. There was a lot we didn't know! I have changed those habits, even though DS was and is perfectly healthy, but I gotta have my sushi, soft cheese and cold deli meats every once in a while. And if you think about it, there's plenty of allowed foods that can make you just as sick. Personally, I just think Caution and Moderation are the key orngbiggrin.gif But that's just my love.gif


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#6 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 09:09 AM
 
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DDCC from May.

 

The only "rule" I follow is that I cut out most alcohol.


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#7 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 09:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanca78 View Post

I ask because I am seriously tempted to have sushi tonight, and I think I will. Some friends invited me out and I can never get DH to go w/me because he's not a fan of Japanese food. And I know after the baby's born the opportunities to go out for good sushi with friends will be few and far between. Once can't hurt, right? 

 

I've also broken the deli meats taboo several times and had a runny egg yesterday. I've started drinking coffee almost every day (not a ton at a time, though) and have been taking sips of my husband's beer & wine all along. In the second trimester, I've had the occasional bit (half glass or so) of beer/wine. Still well below that British study's safe level of 2 drinks/week. I want a glass of wine on my birthday in January. 

 

I can see myself justifying all this as I write--I feel defensive! I continue to really struggle with the boundaries between my independence/autonomy, my baby's well being, my fears/guilt, and my profound resentment at the idea the woman as a slave to her baby/policing women's behavior and bodies at the expense of her own independence. Where is the line between safety and paranoia? Autonomy and selfishness?

 

What do you all think? Anyone else struggling with these questions? 


Oh yes! Great questions! I get so frustrated that I am treated (not just by doctors but by complete strangers) as the enemy of my child, that my child needs to be sheltered from me, because I am too ignorant/fragile/emotionally unstable/mentally compromised to make good decisions. It infuriates me that I will get snotty looks or even concerned comments for eating real butter, or soft boiled eggs, or sushi or a glass of wine yet if I were wolfing down a piece of cake, washing it down with diet soda, and finishing the meal with ice cream and pickles, no one would bat an eye. I don't need to be patronized, I don't need to be educated, and I just want you to leave me alone!

 

To answer your first question, I have been loving soft boiled eggs. But I get my eggs from my dad's pastured flock. I know these chickens, and I know they are healthy. I would not eat runny eggs from the store. A farmers market, perhaps, if I had a relationship with that farmer and knew where the eggs were coming from yes. But with the recent salmonella outbreak, I am not comfortable eating runny or raw eggs from a mysterious company. I do buy supermarket eggs for cooking and baking though.

 

Other rules, well, if I had the money, I would eat sushi every single day. There are two places that make good sushi, and I trust them. I do not do supermarket sushi while pregnant. As for alcohol, I have not had the inclination to drink recently. If I did I would, in moderation as always. I plan on having a glass of champagne on New Years. Deli meats we don't eat often anyways, I only eat it when I am out. So I do try to avoid it since I don't know if the restaurant is keeping the meats at the proper temp or not. If I have a sub, I have it toasted, or I get chicken salad.

 

Personally I wish I could write a few "rules" - banning things like, um, vaccinations for pregnant women. But no one listens to me. wink1.gif


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#8 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 10:00 AM
 
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nerdymom, you said it really well. wink1.gif I too, pay close attention to my food sources and feel like I've educated myself well enough to know what I'm ok with.

 

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#9 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 10:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeminijad View Post

DDCC from May.

 

The only "rule" I follow is that I cut out most alcohol.


Me too.


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#10 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 11:38 AM
 
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since being pregnant, I've had med rare steak, two glasses of wine, and feta cheese.

 

I think that's the extent of my "taboo" consumption. 


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#11 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 01:34 PM
 
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I have a few sips of wine here and there for my upset tummy. I eat lunch meat. I have runny yoked eggs. 

I ate feta cheese and raw cheese with my last pregnancy (I was in Romania.) 

I lift more than 30 lbs or whatever they say pregnant women are not supposed to lift more than? Of course, that is because I have an almost 4 year old that is almost 40 lbs. 


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#12 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 01:38 PM
 
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I don't consider my raw milk/cheese taboo, but many would. smile.gif  I suppose that chocolate cherry liquor thingy I had should have been off limits too.


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#13 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 01:49 PM
 
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DDCC from Feb. '11.

 

I've broken pretty much all of the rules, except for things like "Don't smoke crack while pregnant." Did the same with both prior pregnancies... no complications. Not that I've gotten smashed or anything, but I've had a glass of wine here and there, eaten deli meats and Mexican cheeses (although I think the cheeses were all made w/pasteurized milk anyway), taken OTC and prescription meds (with the exception of NSAIDs like ibuprofen... and prescribed meds have been taken as prescribed but I'm on a lot of 'em).

 

Never did fill my script for prenatal vitamins (but I do eat a lot of veggies and take calcium & vitamin D). I drink quite a lot of caffeine, and my OB during my last pregnancy actually suggested that I keep the caffeine intake up because I tend towards low BP (along with fainting). She said I'd have to drink something like 12 cups of coffee a day for it to carry any significant risk, anyway.

 

Haven't had any undercooked anything but I can't stomach anything less than well-done when it comes to meat and eggs, anyway.

 

Thanks for the reminder, though.. I bought a bottle of wine a few weeks ago and I think I might pull the cork on it tonight. Don't worry, I won't drink it all in one sitting wink1.gif

 

--K

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#14 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 02:57 PM
 
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I eat soft cheeses, deli meat, raw milk, I drink the occasional glass of wine now that I am in the 2nd trimester, enjoy California rolls on a regular basis and drink mostly decaf coffee multiple times a day. I know where my food comes from and trust the source - local, organic, etc. We get our raw milk from an organic farm in town and I know they sanitize bottles, etc.I couldn't go through pregnancy with this "can't do this and that and the other" mindset. I think the U.S. is particularly terrible for perpetuating this "everything is dangerous" attitude toward pregnancy.


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#15 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 03:45 PM
 
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I don't like sushi or anything so I'm okay with that. I'm seriously craving deli meat so I might indulge at some point. I drink some caffeine each day. Don't think I could function without it. And I'm lifting "heavy" when I workout although not nearly as heavy as I was before I got pg!!


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#16 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 03:56 PM
 
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Can I just mention threads like these are part of why I love MDC- bc I know we can all have an open discussion about this w/o the necessary party line of "oh, you shouldn't do x bc you will hurt your baby..."

I agree w/ pps that it is a bigger issue than just taboos, and ties into women being able to be in control of their own bodies and trusting their ability to mother.

 

Me personally? This pg, I regularly do two 'forbidden' things

- I take prescription meds for nausea. This one, I suppose, is on border about whether it is truly 'forbidden' or not, but def feels taboo to me.

- I sit in hot baths or hot tubs a few times a week. I have chronic pelvic pain from endo and adhesions, and it offers relief that I can't get otherwise w/o narcotics. I watch myself and make sure I don't feel too warm, and, usually, only soak up to my waist (the first couple times, I actually took a thermometer w/ me bc I was paranoid.)

 

My last pg, I drank an occasional glass of wine. This time, I've been too sick for that to even be a question.

 

I am, however, paranoid as all get out about food. This isn't just pg related- I'm like that not pg, too, but esp when I'm pg, the thought of any of the questionable foods just turns my stomach, so I trust my body to know that perhaps I don't have the immune system to handle it.


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#17 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 04:54 PM
 
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I've had sushi multiple times this pregnancy - every couple of weeks.  We go to a restaurant where we have gone for years and I feel really confident in them.  I also eat my eggs runny if I can stomach them that way. 

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#18 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 05:05 PM
 
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I also have had sushi several times. Feta is a staple in our house, and it's made with pasteurized milk anyway. I'm cautious about deli meats. Runny eggs and less than well cooked meats don't appeal to me at all, ever.


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#19 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 05:19 PM
 
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I may be a bit paranoid about eveything when I am pregnant. DH has used the word "fanatical," but I think he just did that to irritate me; I may not be mainstream, but I think "fanatical," is a bit of an extreme description. When I eat deli meat, I sear it in a pan first. For me, it hasn't been that big of a deal, though. Deli meat and runny eggs are the only things I ate regularly that are considered taboo. Now, I just sear my meat, and I've been making "green eggs,"  (eggs scrambled with spinach puree,) which my DS loves, in place of over-easy eggs. I already don't drink alcohol, coffee, or even soda. I am also refusing all vaccinations, which wasn't as big of a deal to my current employer as it was my previous employer. (I am a nurse, so some people make a big deal out of it.) I also don't take any medications, which has had the added benefit of pushing me to expand my knowledge of safe natual remedies. I have been tempted to have my DH cook up some of his delicious salmon, but I'm trying to find the research on whether or not it is safe. From what I've read so far, it is safe if it is wild caught, but not if it's fish farm salmon.


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#20 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 05:33 PM
 
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Personally, I won't drink any alcohol, not even a sip when I'm pregnant.  FASD just scares the crap out of me.  Fine with drinking while breastfeeding though.  I have been avoiding deli meat, runny eggs and anything else remotely raw, all of which I don't normally have a problem with. 

 

I eat sushi, but I don't eat any of the raw stuff (which is my favourite!).  There are lots of yummy sushi foods that are not raw and are therefore safe though.  I drink decaf coffee, usually one a day.  I can't drink regular coffee because it affects my sleep (pregnant or not).  I love coke and pepsi though and I often have one a day.

 

I think I've been more paranoid this pregnancy because of the complications I had earlier.  In my previous pregnancies I was a bit more lenient on the deli meats, egg yolks and sushi.

 

Oh, and I've taken Diclectin throughout all of my pregnancies so far.


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#21 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I love that there have been so many thoughtful replies! Now I don't feel so guilty. The message I'm getting here is that it boils down to personal comfort levels, and that it is possible to be cautious on your own behalf without judging others.

 

I just got back from sushi and it was DELICIOUS. Granted, I stuck to cooked rolls (don't know why I hadn't thought of that when I started this thread), with the exception of a couple of leftover pieces of my friend's. It was tuna, and it was raw, but I only had two pieces and it was SO good.

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#22 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 05:42 PM
 
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I can't think of a 'taboo' I abide by...oh, actually I don't take meds (have broken it 1 or 2 though)

mind you, i don't eat sushi, i don't break any laws, and i'm such a light drinker it would hardly even count


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#23 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 05:47 PM
 
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I don't eat meat and don't like raw sushi but have had veggie rolls- don't think that really counts, though.  I also have eaten brie, gorgonzola, feta...you name it in the soft cheese department.  However, they were all pasteurized so that doesn't count either.  Pretty hard to find un-pasteurized cheese these days anyway so that is kinda outdated anyway. 

 

My big taboos...alcohol and caffeine.  I am a HUGE coffee/red wine drinker.  I couldn't stomach coffee for the 1st 10 weeks or so but now I have a cup a day of regular.  If I go to starbucks or something I get decaf.  I've also had approximately 1-2 glasses of red wine a week.  never more. sometimes none. i thouroughly enjoy every sip &  can't wait til I can have 2 glasses!! 

 

I really. really craved wine when I was pregnant with dd#1 and I wouldn't have any until the very end.  Then I felt guilty about it when I had a few sips!  After I had her I could have cared less about it!  With DD#2 I drank a glass here and there throughout the pregnancy and didn't feel guilty about it at all.  I never felt guilty about coffee. 


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#24 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 06:12 PM
 
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Like the others, I don't follow the "rules". I use them as guidelines of where to be more  cautious and thoughtful about my choices.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by midwestmeg View Post
I feel humans wouldn't have made it to this day and age if we weren't pretty resilient. Of course, so much of what you should pay attention to during pregnancy depends on your genetics, general state of health and personal comfort level, but the only way I've found peace with pregnancy and parenting is to throw caution to the wind and just trust my instincts.


I agree with you completely, however, one thing to take into consideration is that in the past, there haven't been as many dangers in the food system itself. Eating store-bought, commercially-produced meat dairy and eggs now is far more risky for everyone than eating them centuries or even decades ago. Of course, the flip side of that is that we know much more about food safety and how to keep risky foods safe, but I still don't think that helps to negate the risks inherent in our food system.

 

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Originally Posted by Nanette56 View Post

But seriously, I think there's a fine line between being cautious and being paranoid. I know moms in each category. I KNOW there are some things I'm paranoid about, but for the most part I think simply being cautious is enough.


Absolutely! We have a cousin who was so fanatical about avoiding alcohol while pregnant that she wouldn't even eat chicken that had a sauce with white wine it in.


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#25 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 06:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karanyavel View Post
DDCC from Feb. '11.

 

I've broken pretty much all of the rules, except for things like "Don't smoke crack while pregnant."



Oh man!  We aren't supposed to smoke crack!? There went my weekend! :P

 

I think it is funny that things like listeria infection from deli meat are SO exceedingly rare and we should avoid them while these same people tell us vaccines are completely safe despite twice as many reactions. 

 

I don't drink while pregnant.  As far as cheeses, meats, raw things, eggs ... I think we have a very safe food supply compared to other countries.  One of the mothering emails recently had a Pregnancy Nog, anyone see that?  Anyways it had raw eggs as an ingredient and a blurb about the incidence of salmonella from eggs in the US.  It was pretty small.  I'll see if I can find it.

 

Anyways, generally I think this indicitive of the "pregnancy as disease" mentality.


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#26 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 06:18 PM
 
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This was in the Week 10 Your Pregnancy email from mothering.com:

 

"This recipe does contain the optional raw egg, so here's some information for the uncertain. According to the American Egg Board, the risk of encountering an egg contaminated with the salmonella bacteria is extremely rare - only one in 20,000 eggs will have even a trace of it, or another bacteria, inside."

 

I think you'd find similar stats with meats and cheeses.


Liora - wife to Pete, IVF miracle DD babygirl.gif (2.11.09) 11 year Infertility survivor! FET miracle TWIN boys babyboy.gifbabyboy.gifborn 2/28 at 32 weeks and growing strong in the NICU.
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#27 of 61 Old 11-11-2010, 06:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanca78 View Post

I love that there have been so many thoughtful replies! Now I don't feel so guilty. The message I'm getting here is that it boils down to personal comfort levels, and that it is possible to be cautious on your own behalf without judging others.

 

I just got back from sushi and it was DELICIOUS. Granted, I stuck to cooked rolls (don't know why I hadn't thought of that when I started this thread), with the exception of a couple of leftover pieces of my friend's. It was tuna, and it was raw, but I only had two pieces and it was SO good.


I am so glad you enjoyed your sushi! I will tell you this: you will be told not to eat even veggie or cooked rolls, but the concern there is cross contamination. So, if the idea of raw fish bothers you, go get your cooked or veggie sushi, and let your sushi chef know that you are pregnant. They will be extra careful (not that a reputable place isn't already careful).

 

Whoever mentioned baths, good point! I love taking baths! My blood pressure goes pretty low if I have the water too warm anyway so I don't think I am elevating my body temp over 103.


><> I'm a Christian, knitting, sewing, cooking SAHM to the fearless adventurer Jack born 11/08, and  a  USCG wife
And we are joyfully awaiting a new addition in April 2011! <><
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#28 of 61 Old 11-12-2010, 09:05 AM
 
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You guys are so great! love.gif:

 

Allison, I totally agree with your reply on food safety!! For, me all of our food comes from either our home, local producers or our local Co-op; and it's a cost I happily take on so that I can know my food is being raised cleanly and safely. I'm such a weirdo about chickens (after seeing the real chicken barns around here when we moved out to MN) that I have gone to visit the farmer my Co-op buys from to see how he's keeping his birds. I don't eat meat and my family only eats meat dh hunts, and I look for reputable fish sources (read- expensive! or from my home fisheries in AK). But I try not to comment too much on my food choices as I've sort of been attacked (hey, maybe rightly so!) for being a food snob. greensad.gif I feel pretty strongly about our health being connected to food, though, so I tend to be outspoken.

 

Becca, I'm a coffee drinker too. smile.gif Gave it up with #1 for pregnancy and after two weeks of tea, couldn't take it anymore! And the BEST part about post-preg is not feeling guilty about enjoying a glass (or two) of wine! I have never craved it during pregnancy much, though, possibly my one saving grace. wink1.gif But towards the end of pg I feel much more like having a beer just to unwind.

 

Liora, that's funny- I was going to say 'and i give up all my favorite street drugs...' but I was afraid someone would take it the wrong way! hehe; when people ask why I choose natural births I always say 'I want my drugs to be for fun; and I didn't give them up for 9 months just to dope up at birth!'

 

nerdymom, forgot about hot baths/showers... guilty! I took saunas (I'm a weekly sauna person) in the beginning, but stopped when I could feel my womb radiating; it just didn't feel right! Now I just settle for a steamy hot shower. mmmmmmm!


Megan~ mama to Cecilia (9/1/04) Carl (11/19/06) Vivian (9/10/09) & spring 2011 baby.
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#29 of 61 Old 11-12-2010, 09:15 AM
 
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I take really warm showers and I ate nitrate free, organic chicken deli meat once.  Beyond that, I can't...not because I don't think other women shouldn't...but because if ANYTHING (even something mild) was wrong with the baby, I would always have a guilty conscience.  After 9 years of infertility and several miscarriages...it's harder to break the rules.  <3

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#30 of 61 Old 11-12-2010, 11:16 AM
 
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DDCC from Feb. '11 again wink1.gif

 

Oooh, I forgot, I DO eat raw eggs in the form of unbaked cookie dough. Especially oatmeal. Yum.

 

The riskiest thing I've done is continue (after much, much research) most of the cocktail of meds I'm on for symptomatic control of MS. Most are category C, and I stopped all but the category B ones during the first trimester. I'm considering tapering off the ones that might possibly cause a physical withdrawal syndrome in the baby (we're talking baclofen, not heroin here) towards the end of pregnancy. I did stop my Provigil before getting pregnant because I felt the risks weren't worth it considering the MASSIVE dose I was on. Oh how I miss Provigil... I need to get a new copy of Hale's ASAP to find out whether I can get away with it while breastfeeding.

 

I even take the **GASP** occasional dose of (prescribed) narcotics while I'm pregnant when my other option is to lie in bed yowling in pain. And I may have had two whole glasses of wine in one night at some point during my second trimester. On the other hand, I've had maybe a total of 7-8 glasses and I'm 26 weeks so not much drinking at all.

 

I did get a couple of ultrasounds due to the meds I take and I was relieved that everything looks very normal. I was a little paranoid even though I knew the risks were small and the benefits (me being functional as a mother to my 6 y/o and as a human being in general) were large.

 

Suffice it to say I don't believe pregnancy should be spent in a padded cell.

 

--K

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