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#1 of 30 Old 03-24-2011, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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All my research has led me to NOT want my baby injected with vitamin K as soon as s/he is born.

If I end up in the hospital, I'll have no choice (state law in NY, they don't even have to get parental permission - CPS can take the kid away if you refuse eyesroll.gif) - but if I end up in the hospital, vitamin K is probably the LEAST of my worries.

 

Is anyone else refusing Vitamin K or doing oral or delaying as long as possible? 

Are you doing anything to supplement yourself during 3rd trimester or after the birth?

I'm eating tons of yummy green veggies - I think I'm getting 1000+mcg vit K from diet, plus the 30mcg in my prenatals - and everything I've read tells me that this plus keeping the cord attached until it's done pulsing should be HUGELY preventative against newborn hemmorhagic disorder - Any thoughts or expertise!?

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#2 of 30 Old 03-24-2011, 08:36 AM
 
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Well, I'd write about it but I wrote so much about it in the other DDC I sometimes participate in that I am written out... 

 

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1303161/vit-k-injection-or-oral-are-you-doing-it

 

I recommend checking out the links I put there. And I guess you'll get a bunch of other's opinions on it too. Make sure to do a bit of research on it because I do feel it is a very important decision, just like whether or not to vaccinate or circumcise are very important decisions. They all could directly effect your baby's health.

 

I will say, I won't be giving my child the shot or the oral as my research has lead me to believe that both of these are not a good idea. I'm supplementing my own diet instead. 


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#3 of 30 Old 03-24-2011, 09:49 AM
 
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If every baby needed high doses of Vit K at birth they would all be born with it.  I'm not doing anything that's not medically indicated.  I have done a lot of research on it, but even if I hadn't, it just doesn't make any sense to me unless it's a traumatic birth/c-section.  Glad I don't live in NY!


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#4 of 30 Old 03-24-2011, 08:40 PM
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with dd we went the oral route. it was so easy. the ped wrote the script in the hospital and the pharmacy made it up for us.

honestly, i didn't do a ton of research and i barely eat enough vitamins to keep myself upright so i'm not sure i could rely on that route. this time we'll probably do the same unless there is a trauma during delivery or if it's a boy. we would do a bris on the 8th day (don't flame...we're orthodox jews and no forum is going to change that) and even though i know that vitamin k levels naturally go up by day 8 (funny how these things work, huh?) i haven't educated mysefl enough to feel confident refusing entirely.

my goal was to do more research this time...thanks for reminding me!


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#5 of 30 Old 03-24-2011, 08:53 PM
 
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Thank you for bringing this up! Something I definitely need to research. I've been meaning to make a list of ALL of the routine interventions that are done in the hospital post-delivery and make a decision about each one.

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#6 of 30 Old 03-24-2011, 09:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysmile View Post

Thank you for bringing this up! Something I definitely need to research. I've been meaning to make a list of ALL of the routine interventions that are done in the hospital post-delivery and make a decision about each one.


Good idea. :) 

 

I personally came to the conclusion that all the routine procedures suck. (Ex. Eye ointment, vit k, hep B, pitocin/traction to deliver the placenta, etc.) Though the pitocin could be useful if you are bleeding to death I think? - There are other remedies for it as well though.

 

Yeah, definitely, I hope everyone takes the time to do their research.


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#7 of 30 Old 03-24-2011, 09:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovebeingamomma View Post

If every baby needed high doses of Vit K at birth they would all be born with it.  I'm not doing anything that's not medically indicated.  I have done a lot of research on it, but even if I hadn't, it just doesn't make any sense to me unless it's a traumatic birth/c-section.  Glad I don't live in NY!


yeahthat.gif  I feel the same.  If they're meant to have something they'd be born with it & vice versa.  I've got a mind to consider administering it IF baby is born very bruised, but otherwise I'm planning to opt out.

 


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#8 of 30 Old 03-25-2011, 05:08 AM
 
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Unless there is some kind of birth trauma or he requires surgery in the first week of life, we are refusing the vitamin K shot. I agree with what others have said about it's not being necessary for every child.

 

How did we ever survive before modern medicine...


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#9 of 30 Old 03-25-2011, 06:12 AM
 
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DDCC to mention that another reason to consider it would be if you needed to take a course of antibiotics later in pregnancy, which would wipe out the gut flora that manufactures the majority of your vitamin K.


 


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#10 of 30 Old 03-25-2011, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by becca_howell View Post

Unless there is some kind of birth trauma or he requires surgery in the first week of life, we are refusing the vitamin K shot. I agree with what others have said about it's not being necessary for every child.

 

How did we ever survive before modern medicine...



well, to be brutally honest, some of us DIDN'T survive without modern medicine. most procedures are done to prevent deaths that DO happen. what we have to decide is whether the risk to us personally dependant on the situation is great wnough to merit the treatment.


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#11 of 30 Old 03-25-2011, 08:00 AM
 
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The problem is that medically minded professionals can screw up a perfectly normal pregnancy and birth many times too. So, it's a toss up somewhat though I feel much more confident without the medical professionals unless I and baby seem to be having problems that I feel could be helped by them. Wish it wasn't so all or nothing as it typically seems.

 

 


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#12 of 30 Old 03-25-2011, 10:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dayiscoming2006 View Post


The problem is that medically minded professionals can screw up a perfectly normal pregnancy and birth many times too. So, it's a toss up somewhat though I feel much more confident without the medical professionals unless I and baby seem to be having problems that I feel could be helped by them. Wish it wasn't so all or nothing as it typically seems.

 

 


Agreed! I admire you (and other UC mamas) so much! If DH was for it, I'd be UCing as well!

 


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#13 of 30 Old 03-25-2011, 10:33 AM
 
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After two babies in our HB community ended up with undxed brain bleeds last year I dont screw around with not doing vit K.  Their births were not traumatic in any way, they had no bruising.  One mom was already supplementing K2 and also drinking lotsa alfalfa tea because she had hemmoraged her last birth.  Until their foreheads and eyes started bulging you wouldnt have had any indications whatsoever.

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#14 of 30 Old 03-25-2011, 11:29 AM
 
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I've become more and more risk averse as I age...ordered the Vit K shot w/ my homebirth kit. I've done lots of reading, and this is what we're comfortable with. Won't be doing the eye goop, though.


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#15 of 30 Old 03-25-2011, 12:11 PM
 
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We'll do the shot.  I tried to have them do oral with DS2, but they couldn't get any, so he got the shot.  Honestly, I don't even know what's bad about it, I just saw so many people against it here that I jumped on the train.  

 


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#16 of 30 Old 03-25-2011, 04:39 PM
 
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We'll do the shot.  I tried to have them do oral with DS2, but they couldn't get any, so he got the shot.  Honestly, I don't even know what's bad about it, I just saw so many people against it here that I jumped on the train.  

 


Well, I can think of two negatives for the shot - really high dose of vitamin K (likely more than baby needs and potentially somewhat damaging) and it's in an aluminum base. I don't know what other ingredients are in there if any. Oral Vit. K I read doesn't digest well or something??? If I was going to do it, I'd research them out. But, I am not going to do it, so... :)

 


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#17 of 30 Old 03-25-2011, 06:00 PM
 
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How does oral Vit K work for babies? What are the advantages/disadvantages vs. the injection? Is the dose different? Is avoidance of aluminum the main benefit of the oral dose? We had so many BF challenges last time that I'm reluctant to force something that is potentially yucky into my LO's mouth so soon after birth.

 

Thanks!

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#18 of 30 Old 03-25-2011, 06:37 PM
 
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I did some more research, and now I'm inclined to go with this product:

http://neo-ceuticals.co.uk/neokayCaps.html

 

The shot does seem like an excessive dose (and painful).

 

A few large studies from Denmark have shown that 2mg orally at birth followed by 1mg weekly for a few months provides as much effectiveness as the shot. For example:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12892158

 

Now I just need to figure out where I can get some. Anyone know?

 

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#19 of 30 Old 03-25-2011, 07:16 PM
 
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I did some reading on it this afternoon, and now I'm back to being undecided.  I'm going to bring it up at my appt. on Monday and see if they have the oral available.  If not, I think we'll probably go for the shot.  I know the chance of a brain bleed is small, but it scares me regardless.  And I know I don't get enough Vit. K in my diet.  


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#20 of 30 Old 03-25-2011, 07:29 PM
 
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It seems like they are now using this formulation for the injections, which can also be used orally and as far as I can tell has no aluminum (they list all the ingredients):

 

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcmed.nsf/pages/rockommp/$File/rockommp.pdf

 

I believe that 3 oral doses is the usual protocol. It seems like the total dose is higher orally vs. injected, which I assume has to do with the fact that not all is absorbed orally. So now I'm thinking that I'll just call the hospital to make sure this is what they use, see if they routinely do the oral administration, and can prescribe the extra doses to take home. Given that it's the same stuff whether injected or oral, I would guess than any hospital would be able to do either. But I could be wrong..

 

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#21 of 30 Old 03-26-2011, 07:50 AM
 
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Someone on the April DDC had said the one their midwife offered had aluminum in it. That's why I figured they all did. So, yeah, I would definitely check on what ingredients are in there at the very least. I have heard that the amount of Vitamin K given whether orally or through the shot is in excess of what baby needs typically and could be damaging for that reason. So, I'd definitely recommend at least looking into that more. 

 

Oh, and don't just take their word for it as the woman in the April DDC's midwife said it was based in something else and she only found out it was in aluminum when she asked to look at it and read the label. 


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#22 of 30 Old 03-26-2011, 12:29 PM
 
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Just an FYI that vitamin K supplementation is actually blocked by the placenta, so regardless of how much you boost up your baby is not getting an extra dose that way. They DO get a hefty dose from your own body fluids (which become super colonized prior to labour) and your colostrum, but it can take quite some time to colonize (10-14 days, I believe? Don't quote me on that). It's a one in a million chance that you'll have a baby with that problem, tbh, and it does suck... however, you can always get it done in the days following birth if you don't want to do it right away and muck about with bonding.

 

We've never done it. May do it this time several days later, not sure yet. The procedure here has changed quite a bit from what it was some years back and it's much less invasive. If we do choose to do it, I'd do shot over oral: oral is a MASSIVE dose and if I'm giving my kid something unnecessary I'd rather give them a small dose of something unnecessary, rather than 10x the dose... IMHO there's probably a reason babies are born with a low reserve, and the placenta blocks it, even considering those one in a million cases.


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#23 of 30 Old 03-26-2011, 04:03 PM
 
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I think some interventions are a good idea. This is one of them, IMHO. Esp if I deliver early!


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Quote:
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IMHO there's probably a reason babies are born with a low reserve, and the placenta blocks it, even considering those one in a million cases.



Good to know. I'd have to agree with the above.

 

I'm supplementing my Vit. K for me - since it is supposed to help with clotting and preventing hemmorage but also I figure that it'll be in my system to feed it to baby in the right amounts through my breastmilk. 


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As I understand it, the need for vitamin K started because of babies being fed formula instead of breastfeeding. I do plan to breastfeed my baby, but need to do more research before I make any final decisions about the shot.


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#26 of 30 Old 03-26-2011, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysmile View Post

I did some more research, and now I'm inclined to go with this product:

http://neo-ceuticals.co.uk/neokayCaps.html

 

The shot does seem like an excessive dose (and painful).

 

A few large studies from Denmark have shown that 2mg orally at birth followed by 1mg weekly for a few months provides as much effectiveness as the shot. For example:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12892158

 

Now I just need to figure out where I can get some. Anyone know?

 



we got a prescription from the pediatrician after the birth and filled it at the hospital pharmacy. i think i was told any compounding pharmacy could do it. i know there's some brand online that people order as well.

but again, this discussion is reminding me that i have to look into these things. i had always thought the oral dose was wither lower or the same. ugh! gotta get moving


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#27 of 30 Old 04-01-2011, 05:24 PM
 
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I always thought oral dose was lower as well, but I brought it up at my midwife appointment yesterday and the dose (here, anyway) in the shot is 1 mg; the oral dose is 3 doses of 2 mg.  My first baby had the one oral dose and never got any more; I'm not 100% sure whether the second guy even got the first dose (I don't remember, and don't know exactly where I put my copy of my birth record!).  There is no oral formulation approved for use in Canada, so they get the same thing in the shot,and my midwife says it is bitter tasting...she said there is a German product that is intended for oral use and when she used that, babies took it happily, but not so much the Canadian-approved stuff.

 

So knowing all that, I am kind of back at the drawing board this time around.  We might do the shot - less of a megadose, over fast, and no worries about shoving something in baby's mouth that will cause any oral aversions.  But the idea of a shot so soon after birth doesn't appeal to me a whole lot, either. 

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#28 of 30 Old 04-01-2011, 06:10 PM
 
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One thing to keep in mind is that a big part of the oral dose isn't absorbed.. I'm guessing that they set the dosage so that the effective dose (i.e. what makes it to the bloodstream) of oral vs. injected is roughly equivalent.

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#29 of 30 Old 04-07-2011, 03:14 PM
 
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I went the oral route with my first.  He had no aversion to the taste.  I gave him 3 drops every other day until the bottle was empty.  Maybe 3 months or so. It was amazingly hard to remember to do! I literally had to buy a dry erase calendar simply to keep track of the vit k doses!! 

I think I am going to check with the midwife as to the allum. levels in her shot and prob just go with that.  I am so scattered brain right now and have so much on my plate. I'm going for easy.  I feel crazy for saying it but its honest.  I also really trust my midwife.  She is a little more medical based on things than I am but is def not one for un-needed procedures etc.  She is constantly updating herself and staff with the most up do date information from a natural and medical stand point.

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#30 of 30 Old 04-08-2011, 08:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dayiscoming2006 View Post





Good to know. I'd have to agree with the above.

 

I'm supplementing my Vit. K for me - since it is supposed to help with clotting and preventing hemmorage but also I figure that it'll be in my system to feed it to baby in the right amounts through my breastmilk. 



That's my approach too.  I'm boosting my Vit K rich foods now since I hemmoraged a lot last time.  Definately not doing shot or oral for baby.


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