4 Year old sociopath? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 11 Old 04-13-2002, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
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My son doesn't seem to care what other people like or want, he just does what he wants to do regardless of what the other wants. For just one of numerous daily examples, in the movie Alladin, in the scene where Aladin sees Jasmin for the first time and is stunned by her, his monkey waves his hand in front of Al's face. DS thinks this is funny and waves his hand in the face of others, and noone likes it - but he doesn't give up. It seems that as soon as he realizes he is upseting someone - he does it more. He has a very strong will. And he doesn't seem to care that he makes people (especially me) mad. When I reprimand him about something I start out normaly very kind, "Please, sweety . . . and this is why . . ." And still he does what he wants. . .so I get by degrees strickter, and even warn him that I will get very angry soon and he should behave while I am still being nice. I get very angry and send him to his room and then he has violent fits or cries as though he was being tortured. My DH says that we have been wrong to raise DS as though he was an equal parnter, DS should have been taught that we are the bosses and he has to cow-tow to us. He thinks we should only warn ds once and then immediately ds should suffer consequences.
This behavior of my son really worries me. 1.) It makes me think he is insenstive to the feelings of others (in other words a spoiled brat). 2.) It makes me wonder about his ability to listen and follow instructions (in other words - not so bright) and 3.) I do not like feeling so much anger at my son so often.
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#2 of 11 Old 04-13-2002, 08:47 AM
 
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Have you read "The discipline Book" by Dr.William Sears? It has alot of great information in it that may help you.
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#3 of 11 Old 04-13-2002, 12:06 PM
 
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I read both this and your other thread and I don't want to acare you, but I want to mention this so that you can read about ti and find out if this applies to your son at all. My 6 year old is similar to your son in many respects- he is a strict "rule follower" (his rules, not necessarily ours) and is very upset when the "rules" are broken. He also has problems socializing- not reading the body language of other children, not making the connections of his actions to their emotiond, etc. He has a neurological disorder called Asperger's Syndrome. Maybe your son is totally different, but you may want to do an internet search to see what you think. The main characteristics are a limited range of interests, innapropriate to age social behavior, innapropriate to age conversation skills. They also usually have some obsessive-compulsive or obsessive-defiant type of traits, and sensory issues.
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#4 of 11 Old 04-13-2002, 12:21 PM
 
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>>>He thinks we should only warn ds once and then immediately ds should suffer consequences<<<

I have to agree with you husband here. Why wait till your fuming especially if you know where it is going. In our house I ask one time (if there is a suggestion for a similar less annoying behavior I offer it at this time) and if they don't adjust thier behaviour it is a time out, loss of privelege, going home or what ever is appropriate to the action. This way they get the message that mom is serious and they don't get too cought in the behaviour. It also lessens power struggles.

For example:

dd is going through a pile of fabric I am cutting for a quilt throwing them everywhere so I say M. you must stop that. It isn't nice. Would you like to play with the scraps instead. She plays with the scraps a while and goes back to the good peices. so I say what did mommy tell you about the peices? (don't play with these they are not yours.) and how many times do I have to tell you? (one time) what happens now? (time out. Having here pick up the peices would only lead to another fit and would take far to long so she has to sit in time out till I get things streightened again)

This method also prevents slightly annoying beaviour from turning into very annoying behaviours or dangerous behaviours. You know how children can ipck up on the fact that it is irritating and then increase it? That is what I am talking about. If you know something willb e annoyiing if repeated five times or 10 minutes from now when you are done playing don't let itcontinue ever. Might as well end right away.

Not all children are born knowing social skills. It is something that is picked up through observation. Sometimes kids aren't so good at observing (my dd is a great example) and need a little help being taught. In some areas we have to be a little harder on her than dd #2 because I can count on dd #2 to get it and not so much dd #1. I am not being unfair or mean to dd#1 she needs a little extra help. Since we started working on it she has made a lot more friends and is a lot more comfortable in social situations.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#5 of 11 Old 04-14-2002, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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lilyka, I thank you for your thoughtful advice. I've been talking it over with dh and another friend toady. I realize I've been giving ds so many chances because I really don't want to have to deal with ds at the moment he is misbehaving! I put it off, by being nice, but bossy, and then the I am justified in getting mad at him because I TOLD HIM ... times and he is wrong, and I am right and so on and so on . . and where does the parenting come in? ONLY when it is convenient for ME? Isn't he my son also when it is NOT convenient? So, dh & I have been talking to ds. We plan to not give him a second chance. ds will be lovingly punished (privileges taken away, time outs, etc. ) if he disobeys, and dh & I will attempt positive replacements for unwanted behavior rather than always saying no. Which is what we had done earlier, but got caught up in some other .

Anyway, we tried it today, and it was almost like ds was smiling when he was punished! He was testing us to see if we would keep our word. It is still only a beginning, but do keep us in your thoughts.

Oh, and Saige, I have Sear & Sears Big book, but not the Discipline book. It isn't so easy getting english books here, but I may ask my M-I-L if she finds it to bring it over the next time she comes. Thanks!


And Krishday, I haven't necessarily ruled your suggestion out. I didn't know such a thing existed. It is a bit scarey, and I ache a bit for you. Thank you for caring enough to respond!
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#6 of 11 Old 04-15-2002, 07:07 PM
 
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"I realize I've been giving ds so many chances because I really don't want to have to deal with ds at the moment he is misbehaving! I put it off, by being nice, but bossy, and then the I am justified in getting mad at him because I TOLD HIM ... ""

That is exactly where I was when I decided to do theone time thing. Also I figured it was my fault that I was getting mad and not hers. After all I new the first time it would make me mad eventually (otherwise it wouldn't matter in the first place if she did it or not) so why did I let it continue? because I was busy with something else and didn't want to be interupted by parenting.: We still occaisionally land there but it is helpful to have a plan.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#7 of 11 Old 04-15-2002, 07:30 PM
 
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Hi
I just wanted to recommend Raising Your Spirited Child, a really great book that includes all personality types and how to deal with them. It has helped so much with my dd who is almost five and has always cried over everything! It can even help with some adult relationships as well-always a plus!
They have it on Amazon.com and you can usually get it used for a lot cheaper price.
Good luck!
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#8 of 11 Old 04-16-2002, 05:54 AM
 
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Revmami - I know what you mean, I know exactly what you mean!! : my daughter also does very much the same thing (although maybe not so much purely to irritate others) I also worry about her being brattish and my husband says the same thing. Your insight about parenting when YOU feel like it has hit home, and I have no advice to offer, but thank you for sharing it, I'm sure it's going to help me too....
I'm still, however, not sure about the consequences thing, making up artificial consequences. I'm sure it works if you can be consistent, but something in my gut says this is another cop out..... I should take this feeling to the gentle discipline board I think.
Do you use amazon com? It has changed my life out here in Poland! (well, amazon uk)
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#9 of 11 Old 04-16-2002, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Ohhh yaaaa - Amazon.de or amazon.uk - I've used them all! But mostly for videos etc - duh - I didn't think about ordering books from there. You are soo right about it changing lives. I used Amazon.com - but was always really socked by import taxes, etc - and since 911 they wrap everything from the US in big sack to protect them from germwarfare kinda stuff - so the German or British Amazon has been fine. It just seems to me that the British stuff is so expensive . . .
OK Sarenka - I am now convinced we must be related!

Lylika, I cried when I read your response - sometimes my emotions surprise me - I guess it was such a relief that I'm not such a stupid mother that I was the ONLY one in the whole world who let it get that bad.
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#10 of 11 Old 04-22-2002, 04:45 PM
 
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but I wanted to make sure you don't expect your son to instantly behave; he is your son and not a robot. My DH thinks our children should stop doing whatever annoying thing they are doing almost before it is physically possible to stop. On the other hand you have to be consistent and expect your son to behave because it gets harder to discipline them the longer you wait. I generally ask my 5yo ds to stop making that noise at the dinner table for example. If he persists I tell him he must either cease the noise or excuse himself from the table so the rest of the family may eat in peace.
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#11 of 11 Old 04-22-2002, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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ooo AUnt LAvendar, you are good . . .
first of all, I feel I need to warn you that I'm a liitle drunk - I just came back from a meeting were they served wine, and I'm feeling a bit happy right now. I rarely drink. Anyway, you just hit on a point that I feel was swimming around in my head, but couldn't come up. I think I do want my son to instantly behave. Sometimes I think, while I am feeling exasperated, that I expect him to behave like an adult - and I know enough adults for whom instantly being "good" is a challenge - why should I expect that of a 4 yrold?????? And then there is the pressure of him being a PK. I am supposed to be some sort of an example of perfect christian upbringing, and that is too much to expect of me not to mention my son!!!! I was writing on my notepad during this VIP meeting (:LOL) that I think for the first time in my life, I'm becoming a perfectionist - because child rearing is so important to me. God gave me such a beautiful brilliant boy, and this time I don't want to screw up, so I'm soo worried. Ok, I'm drunk and I'm crying now, so I'll stop. Tommorrow I'll check for errors - Good point Aunt Lavender . . . thanks
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