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#91 of 120 Old 04-16-2011, 12:06 PM
 
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I think that sounds like a nice plan. How often does that train run? Maybe you can catch the next one and meet them there and then take the train back together. Or take the same train but be in a different car.

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#92 of 120 Old 04-16-2011, 12:18 PM
 
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wow. really?

 


Yes, for sure. A child that young could get really hurt on even a short train ride by themselves and a parent should be told this. On these trains the conductor is at the front and they won't see a child on their own at the back of the train if they are hurt or being harassed or anything so they wouldn't even be able to help them. I know the kind of train she's talking about and I've lived in CH before. They are pretty easy to get on and off are, but some little ones (even at age 6) may need a little extra help or time to get off and others may not give them that time they need or assistance if they need it. I don't care if Dad was there to meet them, it just isn't safe.
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#93 of 120 Old 04-16-2011, 12:32 PM
 
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Yes, for sure. A child that young could get really hurt on even a short train ride by themselves and a parent should be told this. On these trains the conductor is at the front and they won't see a child on their own at the back of the train if they are hurt or being harassed or anything so they wouldn't even be able to help them. I know the kind of train she's talking about and I've lived in CH before. They are pretty easy to get on and off are, but some little ones (even at age 6) may need a little extra help or time to get off and others may not give them that time they need or assistance if they need it. I don't care if Dad was there to meet them, it just isn't safe.

That is just so sad. shake.gif
 

 


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#94 of 120 Old 04-16-2011, 12:44 PM
 
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That is just so sad. shake.gif
 

 


Yes it is sad that some parents will allow their children to do things before they are ready and before it's safe for them to do something. It's also sad that there are so many people that we have to watch out for out there.
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#95 of 120 Old 04-16-2011, 01:04 PM
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I'd do it based on what OP described.

The world is not less safe than it used to be - it's just the media getting us whipped into a frenzy.
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#96 of 120 Old 04-16-2011, 01:10 PM
 
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Yes it is sad that some parents will allow their children to do things before they are ready and before it's safe for them to do something. It's also sad that there are so many people that we have to watch out for out there.

Have you even read any of the posts?
 

 


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#97 of 120 Old 04-16-2011, 01:55 PM
 
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No way in Hell! If I ever saw a young child alone on a train I'd call the conductor and make a HUGE deal out of it and if they didn't do anything you bet your ass that I'd follow that child (but not in a scary way for them) and have a word with their parents!

Following a child you believe to be very or even too young to be alone to make sure they are safely met by a grown up is one thing, and a kind thing to do...deeming yourself the safety patrol and lecturing parents about safety...I think I'd be tempted to react quite violently to such presumptious behavior from a perfect stranger.
 

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wow. really?

 




Yes, for sure. A child that young could get really hurt on even a short train ride by themselves and a parent should be told this. On these trains the conductor is at the front and they won't see a child on their own at the back of the train if they are hurt or being harassed or anything so they wouldn't even be able to help them. I know the kind of train she's talking about and I've lived in CH before. They are pretty easy to get on and off are, but some little ones (even at age 6) may need a little extra help or time to get off and others may not give them that time they need or assistance if they need it. I don't care if Dad was there to meet them, it just isn't safe.



It's for 3 minutes and at the end of the line...so there wouldn't be the issue of running out of time to get off...the trains empty out and the conductors scan the cars. Plus the OP is talking about the middle of a working day at the end of the line...there wouldn't be crowds. 
 

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That is just so sad. shake.gif
 

 




Yes it is sad that some parents will allow their children to do things before they are ready and before it's safe for them to do something. It's also sad that there are so many people that we have to watch out for out there.



Not every 6 year old is a guileless weakling unable to protect themselves, and parents have the right to make those decision for themselves without being told off by perfect strangers.  We are all well aware of the potential dangers out there.  Just because YOU do not feel YOUR child is ready and that it is safe for YOUR child, doesn't mean it's not safe for another child. For goodness sake, the age set by most airlines for children to fly OVERSEAS (we're talking hours with only a busy steward as your "guardian", not a 3 minute train ride with informed train staff going towards the end of the line) alone is FIVE! Thank goodness for the OP that she lives in a part of the world that has not gone totally crazy with fear and where people strike a good balance between trust and safety with their children. 

 

My 6 year old is freakishly tall for his age and most people assume he is 8, and then he opens his mouth and people assume he is a very short 9 or 10. I would have no qualms with DS taking the train in the suburbs of ******* to go between his Gran's and his auntie's house without me if I knew a grown up was meeting him on the other end as it is ONE stop and it is a safe neighborhood, especially if he had my cellphone and his safety whistle.  Regardless of that, it would be MY call to make, not society's or anyone else's.   At the moment we live in Bogota and he stands out as a gringo with his green eyes and blonde hair despite his perfect Spanish, and there is a great deal of poverty and violent crime in this city.  It is NOT a safe place for kids to be alone. Zurich?  In the suburbs?  At the end of the line in the middle of the work day?  I think we need to leave this up to the mom and not be so worried about what other people choose for thier children. 

 

This summer he is flying alone to see his Grandma and Grandpa for two weeks in the States.   He'll be alone on a plane with his grandpa meeting him at the gate.  The flight will take about 7 hours.  He's not worried (far from it) and neither are we.  

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#98 of 120 Old 04-16-2011, 04:28 PM
 
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Following a child you believe to be very or even too young to be alone to make sure they are safely met by a grown up is one thing, and a kind thing to do...deeming yourself the safety patrol and lecturing parents about safety...I think I'd be tempted to react quite violently to such presumptious behavior from a perfect stranger.
 

yeahthat.gif

 

 

 

and I would not hesitate for press stalking and harassment charge against the so-called "safety" person--please stay away from my child!

 

last time I checked, parents still do have rights (at lease here in the US)

 

 

according to my state's law I could press charges-unauthorized following is stalking

 

IMO- a "concerned" citizen would never follow a child and approach a parent

a concerned citizen would look out for others, be it the old lady next to them, the 30 something man and the large family also on the bus, tran, etc and not single out the child-

 

I would be far more in-tuned with the surrounding and the possible danger ALL could face, not a vigilante stance/approach 


 

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#99 of 120 Old 04-17-2011, 06:05 AM
 
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I honestly can't imagine what is going to happen on a three minute train ride, in a quiet city, with little people traffic.   Three minutes is enough time to get on the train, find a seat, spend 45 seconds speeding up, 1 minute traveling, and a 1 minute 15 seconds slowing down and stopping.  I lived in the Chicago suburbs most of my life and hopped on the Metra to get to the other side of town all the time on the milk run stops.  There's barely enough time to settle into your seat, forget about getting in trouble.


I say it depends on the environment and the child and there is no blanket answer for when it's ok.  My older child would LOVE it, my younger one would have freaked out at being alone.  

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#100 of 120 Old 04-17-2011, 07:35 PM
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I have close family in Switzerland and we have spent quite a bit of time there over the years, including on the trains. For the situation you describe, I would be comfortable with a reasonably cautious six year old. If you and your DH agree that she can handle it, and she wants to do it, a 3 minute ride on a SBB train with one parent on either end is a very safe introduction to solo train travel.


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#101 of 120 Old 04-22-2011, 01:30 PM
 
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No. It would be like me leaving my dd in the car for a few minutes alone.


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#102 of 120 Old 04-22-2011, 02:19 PM
 
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No. It would be like me leaving my dd in the car for a few minutes alone.


Which is actually perfectly safe under most circumstances.

 

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#103 of 120 Old 04-22-2011, 02:55 PM
 
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I grew up with trains.  I grew up riding trains alone.  I rode trains alone by about six or seven.  But, I don't think i'd be comfortable sending her on a train alone.  I'm not sure what has changed for me, but, I just wouldn't feel right about it.

 

What if she got 50 yards from the station, and started to cry?  What if she didn't get off, and daddy didn't get on to look for her?  What if he thinks she's on car #7, but she's on car #9?

 

I would let her take a friend and sit alone on the train with her friend while I sat several rows behind her minding my own business.  

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#104 of 120 Old 04-22-2011, 02:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MamitaM View Post

No way in Hell! If I ever saw a young child alone on a train I'd call the conductor and make a HUGE deal out of it and if they didn't do anything you bet your ass that I'd follow that child (but not in a scary way for them) and have a word with their parents!


That would be an overreaction and that's why people are afraid to leave their kids alone.  I think we REALLY underestimate our kids, or the parents who know them.  

 

I voted "no, I wouldn't let her go alone", but I wouldn't panic if I saw a child alone on a train in another country.  I've seen toddlers get on an elevator or escalator alone, and I'll follow those kids because Mom turned around for a second.  But, if a parent put the child on the train, I think I'd trust mom and dad's judgement more than my own.

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#105 of 120 Old 04-22-2011, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I grew up with trains.  I grew up riding trains alone.  I rode trains alone by about six or seven.  But, I don't think i'd be comfortable sending her on a train alone.  I'm not sure what has changed for me, but, I just wouldn't feel right about it.

 

What if she got 50 yards from the station, and started to cry?  What if she didn't get off, and daddy didn't get on to look for her?  What if he thinks she's on car #7, but she's on car #9?

 

I would let her take a friend and sit alone on the train with her friend while I sat several rows behind her minding my own business.  


Why wouldn't daddy get on to look for her in this scenario? This train is 2-3 cars long (short distance commuter train) and it sits in the next town for about 10 minutes until it turns around. If daddy is standing on the platform and she doesn't get off, why wouldn't he look for her after a minute or so? 

 

She already sits by herself sometimes. The big deal to her would be navigating the getting on/off by herself. I do worry about her starting to cry once the train left the station but she sounds fine with going with her 2 friends. She doesn't think she is ready to go by herself. She does think she is ready to go with her same-age friend to Zurich's high train station. ROTFLMAO.gif That ain't gonna happen. 

 

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#106 of 120 Old 04-22-2011, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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No. It would be like me leaving my dd in the car for a few minutes alone.


In some cases, leaving my 6 year old in the car by herself would be perfectly fine. I wouldn't do it in lots of areas but I think it is OK in other areas. I do leave my DD outside the grocery store (in a courtyard) to play and eat an ice cream from time to time. Grocery shopping is boring to her and we live in a very safe town. In DD's case, she is perfectly capable of coming in and getting me if she needs anything. 

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#107 of 120 Old 04-22-2011, 03:44 PM
 
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Why wouldn't daddy get on to look for her in this scenario? 


I have no idea, but sometimes things happen that we don't understand, and don't forsee.  Stuff just happens.  Once, our neighbor left all the kids at home. (one was 12 yrs old, so perfectly reasonable) but there was a sudden bizzarre horrible storm that none of us ever saw coming, and she was trapped inside the grocery store, while the kids rode out the storm alone.  Nothing bad happened, but it was just something nobody thought could happen.

 

Also, I assumed the train was huge, like those in the city I grew up in.  So, if it were a smaller train, in a smaller town, I might feel differently.  I think we all have different feelings based on where we live now, or where we grew up.  Whatever our own experience is, changes how comfortable we feel with different situations.  

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#108 of 120 Old 04-22-2011, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I have no idea, but sometimes things happen that we don't understand, and don't forsee.  Stuff just happens.  Once, our neighbor left all the kids at home. (one was 12 yrs old, so perfectly reasonable) but there was a sudden bizzarre horrible storm that none of us ever saw coming, and she was trapped inside the grocery store, while the kids rode out the storm alone.  Nothing bad happened, but it was just something nobody thought could happen.

 

Also, I assumed the train was huge, like those in the city I grew up in.  So, if it were a smaller train, in a smaller town, I might feel differently.  I think we all have different feelings based on where we live now, or where we grew up.  Whatever our own experience is, changes how comfortable we feel with different situations.  


I think that is definitely true. In fact, I think if I were Swiss, I wouldn't be hemming and hawing about all of this. I'd make a decision and that would be that. My Americanness comes out in small ways sometimes. lol.gif It is a smaller train and I can actually ride my bike along the train tracks because there is a bike path so if it stopped or whatever, I could just ride up to it. I would definitely give her my cell phone to call her dad if anything came up. 

 

DD seemed to have a bit of a hard time turning 6. I guess it is kind of tough letting go of baby and toddlerhood so I think she'll wait a bit until she asks again. That is perfectly OK with me. 

 

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#109 of 120 Old 04-22-2011, 10:48 PM
 
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In some cases, leaving my 6 year old in the car by herself would be perfectly fine. 


wait WHAT?!!! <not talking directly to you lala> u mean no one leaves their 6 year old alone as they go to pay for gas and are away for a few minutes?

 

really?!!! i live in a big city where crime does exist but its not everywhere. neither would i call any neighborhood safe. 

 

but really a 6 year old is old enough to be alone in the car for a few minutes. unless of course certain conditions are not conducive - like weather, really bad neighborhood.

 


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#110 of 120 Old 04-23-2011, 02:13 AM - Thread Starter
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wait WHAT?!!! <not talking directly to you lala> u mean no one leaves their 6 year old alone as they go to pay for gas and are away for a few minutes?

 

really?!!! i live in a big city where crime does exist but its not everywhere. neither would i call any neighborhood safe. 

 

but really a 6 year old is old enough to be alone in the car for a few minutes. unless of course certain conditions are not conducive - like weather, really bad neighborhood.

 



Well, last time we had this discussion here, I learned it is illegal in CA. In TX (where I lived before Switzerland), I think you have 5 minutes. Some people think it is child abuse to go inside to pay for gas and others think that is ridiculous. *I* am glad I don't have to worry about cars or car seats anymore. lol.gif

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#111 of 120 Old 04-23-2011, 04:50 AM
 
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lala...I am SURE things are different in Switzerland than they are in the States so I can't say what I would or wouldn't do in your scenario. I will say that it IS legal for children to fly on airplanes alone once they turn five and, much to my dismay, My DS started making the 2 1/2 hour flight alone to see his dad last month. NOW I see that he's not only perfectly capable but he loves it and it's not a problem. I'm still a nervous wreck until I get the text from his dad that he's there safely, but he's fine and it's good for him that I trust him and allow him the opportunity to feel independent.

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#112 of 120 Old 04-23-2011, 05:34 AM
 
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Well, last time we had this discussion here, I learned it is illegal in CA. In TX (where I lived before Switzerland), I think you have 5 minutes. Some people think it is child abuse to go inside to pay for gas and others think that is ridiculous. *I* am glad I don't have to worry about cars or car seats anymore. lol.gif


let me tell you if we lived in switzerland we would be leading a MUCH different life. lol.gif definitely with less protests from dd. 

 


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#113 of 120 Old 04-23-2011, 10:46 AM
 
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Which is actually perfectly safe under most circumstances.

 


It could be perfectly safe or quickly get v. unsafe. I worry that I might get distracted and forget about for I don't know, for a certain amt. of time or someone notices the child and I think it's against the law and don't want anyone calling the cops even if I have just left for a couple of minutes. Or it's a small chance but what if she unstraps herself because she knows how to and gets the attention of a pedophile. I don't know. In the case of the train ride I worry because I know that kidnappings happen in minutes.But that's just me.


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It could be perfectly safe or quickly get v. unsafe. I worry that I might get distracted and forget about for I don't know, for a certain amt. of time or someone notices the child and I think it's against the law and don't want anyone calling the cops even if I have just left for a couple of minutes. Or it's a small chance but what if she unstraps herself because she knows how to and gets the attention of a pedophile. I don't know. In the case of the train ride I worry because I know that kidnappings happen in minutes.But that's just me.


How could someone get kidnapped off a train if that someone's dad is waiting outside the train doors?

 

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#115 of 120 Old 04-23-2011, 11:41 AM
 
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My 6-yo would not be ready for that at all and I can't imagine her asking to do something like that, so no way.  I do think in the situation you describe it sounds safe enough.  I probably still wouldn't do it though...even if my child was ready and wanted to.  It just seems sorta pointless to me and a lot of hassle (having her dad be at the next stop, taking her to the train, and you would need to probably ride another train to catch up with them.).  I would think I would wait for a solo train ride to be when she is older (and able to handle a bit more than just those 3 minutes by herself) and when it would actually be helpful to have her ride the train by herself.


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#116 of 120 Old 04-23-2011, 04:35 PM
 
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Sorry, I hadn't read all the posts and haven't still but have read most. I have visited Holland and Germany but not Switzerland and imagine that it is a lot safer than here. When I was talking of kidnappings I was thinking about a busy train in a crowded town here in the U.S. So, just ignore that.


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#117 of 120 Old 04-23-2011, 05:21 PM
 
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I would be comfortable with my 12 year old, not my 5 year old.


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#118 of 120 Old 04-23-2011, 05:41 PM
 
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When I was talking of kidnappings I was thinking about a busy train in a crowded town here in the U.S. 

 

Where in the US is this happening?

 

I live within two hours of two of the largest US cities and get daily news from both and I don't see this happening. I do see thousands and thousands of children that take trains daily and no reports of this.

 

and I do see a lot of unfounded fear not backed by facts

 

I see people afraid of letting children do most normal (at least it use to be) activities.

 

If there was real evidence of this I could understand, but still most crimes are committed in large part by people we know, not random strangers.

 

 


 

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#119 of 120 Old 04-28-2011, 07:57 AM
 
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I see people afraid of letting children do most normal (at least it use to be) activities.

Actually I do think things used to be safer. For example there used to be less traffic, more moms at home able to watch the neighbourhood kids. More siblings, etc. But also kids used to be more independent because parents were very busy around the house (before washing machines etc.). On the other hand there is also more independency today with more kids being in daycare. The first thing they learn is to hold their own bottle at < 6  month old....(nursing WOHM myself, I hated that) and after that self (spoon) feeding by 12 months, potty training and going to bathroom by themselves. I think more so than kids that are home with a parent.

 

I am also for giving kids independency. But a solo trainride I would not do. It could be perfectly safe to do for these 3 minutes with dad waiting etc. But the child does not understand that it is a special safe case and might hop on a different busy train with many stops by herself. That's why I wouldn't do it, even though this particular case has very small chance of danger. It is like letting a child steer the car on your lap on your own driveway to me. Very small chance of danger but I wouldn't do that either for similar reasons.

 

I do let my kids bike on our cull-de-sack by themselves (I watch them through the window). They can get their own snacks and drinks if they want something. They can decide what they wear to school (even if it is wrong season etc.).  Things like that, which also gives them a sense of independence I believe. My kids are 5 and 3.

 

Carma

 

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#120 of 120 Old 05-02-2011, 03:22 PM
 
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at age 5-6 I would not have been allowed to take a train by myself (and I'm 31 and grew up in a small town)   I was allowed at age 10 to ride my bike into town though

Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

 

 

 

Where in the US is this happening?

 

I live within two hours of two of the largest US cities and get daily news from both and I don't see this happening. I do see thousands and thousands of children that take trains daily and no reports of this.

 

and I do see a lot of unfounded fear not backed by facts

 

I see people afraid of letting children do most normal (at least it use to be) activities.

 

If there was real evidence of this I could understand, but still most crimes are committed in large part by people we know, not random strangers.

 

 



 


Unassisted birthing, atheist, poly, bi WOHM to 4 wonderful, smart homeschooling kids Wes (14) Seth (7) Pandora Moonlilly (2) and Nevermore Stargazer (11/2012)  Married to awesome SAH DH.

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Growing Up Not Out , Raising Children Gracefully What Parents Can Learn From Jesus , Raising Intuitive Children Guide Your Children To Know And Trust Their Gifts

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